Anyone else tried this? DON'T!

[polydeuces]

OK so as a joke I posted this image elsewhere - a thread about crazy stuff people attach to guns.

Upon seeing this, one of the more informed members sent me this amazing document as a heads up:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

Who'd have thunked this idiotic looking set-up is actually addressed by the brilliant legal minds at the ATF....
Morale of this story - don't get caught doing this. Unless you're a NFA manufacturer.

Which makes me wonder how this scenario would work out:
When owning a normal legal M4 carbine, and you have a SBR upper, or a full-auto trigger group, neither one installed, nor any paperwork saying you can own either one of them, you're in deep doodoo.

So following this "logic", if I have a pistol, an AR, and this detached grip all in the range-bag, does this make it illegal as well? Or is it only the action of attaching?
Ah....the radiant minds of the ATF

[BCmJUnKie]

Im sure its only the "Attaching" part.

I had a pic like this I posted not too long ago in the M&P pic thread,
I didnt attach it though. It took a couple people a minute to notice,.

If you had an M4 and a pistol along with a Grip pod in your range bag, I highly doubt even if you ran INTO an ATF agent that he would assume you were using a grip pod on the pistol

[amd5007]

I was talking with an Class 3 dealer in my area about this very matter. The very fact of a platform's modularity circumvents any control the ATF has on these classifications of weapons. Sure they can still prosecute, but that can't successfully regulate. For example, before the wide distribution of short barrels for the AR-15, it made sense to have such stringent rules concerning the transfer and manufacture of SBRs. But now, any individual with a credit card can purchase a short barrel and attach it to a rifle. This fact complicates any and all laws concerning the manufacture of SBRs. This has resulted in the intent to manufacture concept. But because of the sweeping nature of the intent to manufacture clause, we get the problem of the situation you mentioned: pistol, rifle and vertical grip in a range bag.

Now in reality in that situation, one has little to worry about, but in a legal sense, it causes some problems.

[militarymoron]

while that particular setup is idiotic and inviting injury (remember that vid of some guy shooting his hand with a G18 (or converted glock) when the vertical grip came off?), 'handgun' also applies to weapons like the HK SP89, spectre, steyr/B&T tp9 etc, on which a vertical grip actually makes sense to have. the ATF is more likely addressing those applications rather than the one you showed.

[Cobra66]

NFA issues aside, this looks like a good way to shoot your fingers off. :eek:

[amd5007]

NFA issues aside, this looks like a good way to shoot your fingers off. :eek:

+1

I don't think the dust cover has the structural integrity to handle force from a vertical grip.

[SuperiorDG]

This is a good reminder for those that own AR pistols and the like.

[Airborne12b]

OK so as a joke I posted this image elsewhere - a thread about crazy stuff people attach to guns.

Upon seeing this, one of the more informed members sent me this amazing document as a heads up:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

Who'd have thunked this idiotic looking set-up is actually addressed by the brilliant legal minds at the ATF....
Morale of this story - don't get caught doing this. Unless you're a NFA manufacturer.

Which makes me wonder how this scenario would work out:
When owning a normal legal M4 carbine, and you have a SBR upper, or a full-auto trigger group, neither one installed, nor any paperwork saying you can own either one of them, you're in deep doodoo.

So following this "logic", if I have a pistol, an AR, and this detached grip all in the range-bag, does this make it illegal as well? Or is it only the action of attaching?
Ah....the radiant minds of the ATF


I was under the impression that the given situation has ben deemed by the ATF to be constructive possession. I.e. owning full auto parts to convert an AR or AK.

[F-Trooper05]

I'm still waiting for my NFA paperwork to get approved for this bad boy...


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/millert12005/daily-ran-dom-10.jpg

[one]

I wish the people that continually post the photo shopped pic of Paul Kim with the 10,000 accessories on an AR, or the one with someone's AR having two dozen optics on it on the bipod would get into trouble with someone.

I'm so G'damn sick of seeing those pictures posted in threads across the net by the KISS crowd I could scream.

Sorry, that's been building up for a long time. Thread continuity to resume.

[BCmJUnKie]

Is that a webcam SWEET!! I wouldnt want to be on the business end of that.

Heres my 200yd M&P w/ CQB Capabilities

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DSC00827.jpg

[polydeuces]

:lol:

[Spiffums]

Is that a webcam SWEET!! I wouldnt want to be on the business end of that.

Heres my 200yd M&P w/ CQB Capabilities

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DSC00827.jpg

You better get you a light and a bayonet on there stat!

[BCmJUnKie]

Ya I know its halfassed. Im trying to figure out a mount for the light, bayonet and a pressure switch LASER! lol

[sgtjosh]

You better get you a light and a bayonet on there stat!

You really need a BUIS on that smokewagon.

[JohnnyC]

Is that a webcam SWEET!! I wouldnt want to be on the business end of that.

Heres my 200yd M&P w/ CQB Capabilities

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DSC00827.jpg

You should probably swap the BFG for a grip pod. You know, in case you need to prone out and stretch it's legs. And you should probably swap the aim point for a Leupold 1-8 with an offset T-1.

BOOM! Headshot.

[JDest]

By my count, F-Trooper is still WAY ahead due to the FLIR Webcam. Hliarious pic.

[Axcelea]

Is always fun though to point out to "Assault Weapon Ban" advocates how the 1994 AWB was so sloppily done it listed a vertical forward grip on the list of features for handguns but the NFA and all that says it is no longer a handgun period. Watch the dumb looks and usually shuts them up :happy:

Anyhow was something from the ATF circulating around that said a shoe lace is an automatic weapon parts kit under X circumstance and demonstrates "conspiracy to manufacture" and all that. Think it was a memo in response to a hypothetical question.

[BCmJUnKie]

By my count, F-Trooper is still WAY ahead due to the FLIR Webcam. Hliarious pic.

I guess if this was a "Funny contest" he would win.

Im going for practical. :D

[obucina]

so, i guess putting a foregrip on that M&P means that the "thumb break method" is a bad idea?:D

[Heavy Metal]

I was under the impression that the given situation has ben deemed by the ATF to be constructive possession. I.e. owning full auto parts to convert an AR or AK.

The 68 GCA specifically mentions a combination of parts capable of being readily assembled in regards to a machine gun and therefore defines constructive possession.

It does not do this in regards to an SBR or anythinng else in the Federal Code IIRC.

I believe once the ATF tried to prosecute a man for possession of a Tompson Contender rifle kit and a pistol barrel as constructive possession of an SBR and the SCOTUS smacked their peepee hard because of this.


(8) The term "short-barreled rifle"
means a rifle having one or more barrels
less than sixteen inches in length
and any weapon made from a rifle
(whether by alteration, modification, or
otherwise) if such weapon, as modified,
has an overall length of less than
twenty-six inches.

(b) Machinegun
The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed
to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more
than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of
the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of
any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and
exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use
in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of
parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in
the possession or under the control of a person.

[Iraqgunz]

You are slightly confused. Owning true full auto parts would obviously be an issue due to the 1986 FOPA. All that other stuff about short uppers and mix-n-match with other AR's is nothing but internet masturbation conspiracy theories.


I was under the impression that the given situation has ben deemed by the ATF to be constructive possession. I.e. owning full auto parts to convert an AR or AK.