View Full Version : Where it all began...
While I was talking with a very tenured coworker about fast cars, cold beer, hot women, and cool guns (not in any particular order) he happens to mention that, back in the day, he knew the guy who started it all, and that his shop was just around the corner.
Being the inquisitive type, I did a little follow-up on the conversation and this was the result. It turns out, the guy he knew was one Eugene Stoner, and this is what his shop looks like today...
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Thanks for posting that. I remember some really cool gun places in the Golden State back in the day.
BushmasterFanBoy
09-04-11, 19:47
That's certainly an interesting selector layout.
4thPointOfContact
09-04-11, 21:12
That's certainly an interesting selector layout.
But, in a way, it makes sense; in the same manner that an AK selector is laid out.
Young troop gets surprised, flicks the lever quickly with his thumb, where does it go - - "Semi." Same thing with an AK gets the lever past 'Auto' and into the Semi notch.
Full auto takes a more thoughtful, deliberate manipulation, same as with the AK. Muscle memory is a non issue as no one would have the S-S-A memory of the AR to start with.
So what was the follow up you did? How did your investigation lead you to believe that what this guy said was true? Just interested in the story. Is this rifle hanging on the wall of the building like a museum or....?
So what was the follow up you did? How did your investigation lead you to believe that what this guy said was true? Just interested in the story. Is this rifle hanging on the wall of the building like a museum or....?
I know that what he said is true, because I believe what he says. He has proven himself to be a truthful individual. The follow-up I did was to go with him to the location and see it for myself, put boots on deck as it were... I stood there drinking coffee in the same little room where the first AR15 was both designed and manufactured... Perhaps not interesting to everyone, but I thought it was very cool...
The rifle pictured was photographed by SMG LEE at SHOT and it is in the personal collection of Mr. Reed Knight. I believe that it is currently in Florida...
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Defensive Armament
09-05-11, 21:30
Cool story bro. It's interesting who you meet and how life works out sometimes. Betcha never thought you'd be standing there. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing, very cool!;) it's not that I didn't believe you, I just wanted more specifics to the story.
Magic_Salad0892
09-06-11, 04:44
I know that what he said is true, because I believe what he says. He has proven himself to be a truthful individual. The follow-up I did was to go with him to the location and see it for myself, but boots on deck as it were... I stood there drinking coffee in the same little room where the first AR15 was both designed and manufactured... Perhaps not interesting to everyone, but I thought it was very cool...
The rifle pictured was photographed by SMG LEE at SHOT and it is in the personal collection of Mr. Reed Knight. I believe that it is currently in Florida...
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That's cooler than hell man, congrats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
ArmaLite began as a small arms engineering concern founded by George Sullivan, the patent counsel for Lockheed Corporation, and funded by Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation. After leasing a small machine shop at 6567 Santa Monica Boulevard in Hollywood, California, Sullivan hired several employees and began work on a prototype for a lightweight survival rifle for use by downed aircrew.
While testing the prototype of ArmaLite's survival rifle design at a local shooting range, Sullivan met Eugene Stoner, a talented small arms inventor, who Sullivan immediately hired to be ArmaLite's chief design engineer.
Buck,
I saw the Reed Collection when I was at KAC for the armorer course back in 2006. It is simply incredible.
I know that what he said is true, because I believe what he says. He has proven himself to be a truthful individual. The follow-up I did was to go with him to the location and see it for myself, but boots on deck as it were... I stood there drinking coffee in the same little room where the first AR15 was both designed and manufactured... Perhaps not interesting to everyone, but I thought it was very cool...
The rifle pictured was photographed by SMG LEE at SHOT and it is in the personal collection of Mr. Reed Knight. I believe that it is currently in Florida...
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Tango-Alpha
09-16-11, 19:56
While I was talking with a very tenured coworker about fast cars, cold beer, hot women, and cool guns (not in any particular order) he happens to mention that, back in the day, he knew the guy who started it all, and that his shop was just around the corner.
Being the inquisitive type, I did a little follow-up on the conversation and this was the result. It turns out, the guy he knew was one Eugene Stoner, and this is what his shop looks like today...
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The only GOOD thing that ever came out of Hollywood, CA.
Man if those walls could talk ..I would love to stand there and take in the moment :cool:
Johnny Yuma
09-17-11, 09:00
Nice tid-bits for my less than awesome Armalite collection ...
Thanks for posting !!!
very cool story, neat to stand in the place where it all began
That's really freakin cool
Buck,
I saw the Reed Collection when I was at KAC for the armorer course back in 2006. It is simply incredible.You have my curiosity...what else in in the collection?
Also to notice on the 000001 edition: is that the charging handle inside the top of the carry handle there, instead of behind it like we know it today?
You have my curiosity...what else in in the collection?
Also to notice on the 000001 edition: is that the charging handle inside the top of the carry handle there, instead of behind it like we know it today?
More than can really be listed...it's impressive.
Sent from my Evo using Tapatalk
Reed Knight really raped Colt's collection when he left them.... But it was Colt's fault...
Very nice. My office isn't too far from there.
I have entertained the idea of checking out various addresses of 1980s-era evil-rifle importers in town (IIRC, there were a few in and around LA) to see what they had become since that golden era.
You have my curiosity...what else in in the collection?
Index of pics here-
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/ReedKnightCollection/
I really like the primordial AR-10s and the AR-16s. Everyone always thinks of the AR-15/M16 when they hear Stoner, but the AR-16/18 was probably his most influential design. The SA80, AUG, G36 and the SCAR use basically the same operating mechanism with some minor changes to the op rod or the action spring set up.
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Besides SA Colt cap guns one of my first toy guns was a copy of an M16 with the old school CH. You pulled it back and pulled the trigger for full auto sound powered by a spring.
mkmckinley
01-07-12, 07:07
I've always wondered why they went away from that charging handle configuration. It seems like it would be about perfect.
Besides SA Colt cap guns one of my first toy guns was a copy of an M16 with the old school CH. You pulled it back and pulled the trigger for full auto sound powered by a spring.
My first toy rifle was an M16A1. The full auto sound was electronic, there was a speaker in the magazine (20rd). It had an actual aperture in the carry handle and a post in the front sight. The trigger pull was crap, way too light. I had my mom zip-tie a paper towel tube under the barrel to act as a grenade launcher.
For a carry handle M16, the original location of the charging handle makes some sense. However, it would obviously be a problem today.
Eurodriver
01-07-12, 15:28
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That last pic would really f*** me up if I were at the range.
Index of pics here-
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/ReedKnightCollection/
Holy cow... I've got to move up in the world. I'm showing this to my wife the next time she says I have a lot of guns. I do not have anywhere NEAR enough guns and this is proof.
For a carry handle M16, the original location of the charging handle makes some sense. However, it would obviously be a problem today.This arrangement reportedly caused the charging handle to heat up.
OMG..First toy rifle a M16! I'm getting old... :D. Ron
sinlessorrow
12-22-12, 11:01
For a carry handle M16, the original location of the charging handle makes some sense. However, it would obviously be a problem today.
Not really, we would just run optics like the FAMAS today if we kept that CH location. Anyone know why they changed it?
Magic_Salad0892
12-23-12, 05:04
Not really, we would just run optics like the FAMAS today if we kept that CH location.
Yeah, but it would suck a lot, and somebody would've wisened up, and relocated the charging handle.
halfmoonclip
01-22-13, 09:28
Stoner did his best to think 'outside the box'; the original charging handle inside the carry handle, DI, aluminum and fiberglass construction, straight stock, and buffer tube as a few examples.
We've become so accustomed to the AR that it is easy to forget just how radical it was, initially, in many respects. Some of our Honorables and B. Hussein still aren't comfortable with it, but that's another matter.
Thanks to the OP for the tour inside; had to kinda laugh about the question regarding display of the pictured AR there; considering it's current use, an AR is about the last damn thing I would expect to find. Of course, it wasn't actually in Stoner's old shop; wonder if the current users know the history of the place.
Hard to believe that Kalifornia was once a fairly conservative place full of ex-GIs.
Moon
While I was talking with a very tenured coworker about fast cars, cold beer, hot women, and cool guns (not in any particular order) he happens to mention that, back in the day, he knew the guy who started it all, and that his shop was just around the corner.
Being the inquisitive type, I did a little follow-up on the conversation and this was the result. It turns out, the guy he knew was one Eugene Stoner, and this is what his shop looks like today...
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Okay I'm a little slow, I just noticed the selector. Very interesting. I never knew that's the way it started out. Again that's a very cool rifle.
gunrunner505
01-22-13, 13:01
Kind of interesting that the AR, the anti Christ, would be born in California. The home of the anti gun nut....
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I was Looking(drooling) at the pictures and Noticed in Picture HKrack3 jpg at the bottom a HK pistol with a stock on it what is that ????
TAC TV spoke about Stoner on the last one I watched.
(M16 Vs M14)
I was in love with the old M16 with the green plastic furniture
halfmoonclip
01-23-13, 15:56
It was a whole different creature than the Garand/M-14 that preceded it. It wasn't made out of steel and walnut, and it shot a groundhog round.
All manner of E-8s were in a complete tizzy about it.
Moon
I was Looking(drooling) at the pictures and Noticed in Picture HKrack3 jpg at the bottom a HK pistol with a stock on it what is that ????
Looks to be a VP70Z.
Thank you for sharing that. It's very fascinating and interesting.
Also, it's extremely ironic that the weapon was a product of Southern CA. I guess this was a cool place a long time before I came into existence.
Also, how come all of these early AR-15s have a more grey colored finish?
patrick sweeney
02-22-13, 13:03
That was the color then. Anodizing doesn't produce color, it turns the aluminum a frosty gray. The color comes from the die added as one of the last steps. The earliest guns were un-dyed, and thus gray. Even a light gray. Then came a dark gray, then black.
That was the color then. Anodizing doesn't produce color, it turns the aluminum a frosty gray. The color comes from the die added as one of the last steps. The earliest guns were un-dyed, and thus gray. Even a light gray. Then came a dark gray, then black.
Thank you. I didn't know that.
Is there any reason why they took the time to change it from the raw anodizing to the black color?
patrick sweeney
02-22-13, 13:29
There's no real savings in production time to not dye them, (they still have to go through a couple of other steps anyway) so no advantage.
As for the color change, that si something to pore through Bartucci and The Black Rifle. I don't remember any reason given, but it could just be to be different.
I do know that the early experience of the AR in jungles produced the interesting results of the 6061 alloy corroding away, hence the change to 7075. But that change happened long before the switch to black.
awesome thread and thanks for all the links and info. and great pics, dont know if you ever seen this but thought would be nice to post here
Fairchild Armalite division ar10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc6iO6L4mco&feature=player_detailpage#t=5s
eugene stoner part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pgMh45kr7s&list=PLC2D2C8A04FC5F4E8&feature=player_detailpage#t=4s
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR2RwLdxG9M&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s
Wow, that's really cool to see. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Stoner!
Thanks gents, for putting all this stuff up ! That proto AR15 serial # 0, with leather butt pad and dove tail front sight, is the most significant physical item in US history, next to the Declaration of Independence!
halfmoonclip
05-16-13, 21:10
Hard to argue about the significance of the AR platform, including its role in American conflicts (the M-16 virtually became a metaphor for Viet Nam, as the M-4 has for the sandbox). Then there has been both the concept of the tiny, high velocity round and the aluminum and plastic construction; both were a hard pill for traditionalists to swallow.
Finally, the huge success of the AR in the civilian market has made this particular 'black rifle' the target of the anti's ire.
Not sure if I'd rank it above the Declaration or the Constitution, but it's pretty damned important.
Moon
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