Why rare to see 200 Grain .40?

[tb1911]

Mass is good - we see plenty of 147 grain 9MM and 230 grain .45, but I only see the Gold Dot 200 grain .40 and I've never seen it for sale anywhere.

I am wondering why we don't see a better selection of heavier 200 grain .40's out there. I would like to see more choices. You would really be approaching .45 mass and the recoil characteristics are a less snappy.

Thoughts?

[ST911]

Mass is good

but it isn't everything, and has a point of diminishing return.


Thoughts?

The cost:benefit doesn't weigh out in favor of the 200s. If it did, we'd have them already.

[ImBroke]

Also could be pressure related. The longer bullet goes into the case deeper.

[DocGKR]

Powder capacity, sectional density, velocity. The conventional 180 gr JHP's work about perfectly (obviously bullets using alternate construction like XPB, EFMJ, etc... may be a different weight) from a terminal performance perspective and also are the easiest to shoot...oh, and .40 was built around that bullet weight, so it often has optimal functioning characteristics.

[KhanRad]

I managed to get some of the 200gr GD a while back. I chronoed it and got an average of 875fps from a 4" barrel. While not scientific, I shot it into some water jugs and expansion was disappointing in comparison to 180gr GDs.

Ballistics is a bell-curve. In other words, there is an ideal balance between velocity and mass. To much mass and not enough velocity, and you get performance issues. Same goes with too much velocity and not enough mass.

[Heavy Metal]

200gr Gold Dots you say?

That would be about perfect for a 10MM!

[Nemecsek]

A while back I saw a bunch of Speer ammo in 200rd boxes with 200gr Gold Dots. The boxes were marked "for training only" or something similar. Probably some agency etc rejected a bunch of it and it got sold off as training ammo. Maybe Speer tried to sell it to agencies, who upon testing it, felt it falls short in some respect. If they pump the velocity to a useful level to expand, recoil may get harsh.

[sgtjosh]

I was under the impression that 200gr bullets were for 10mm only.

HP bullets are designed to expand in a certain velocity range. Too slow and expansion is lackluster...too fast and expansion turns into fragmentation.

I can't imagine a 40 S&W being able to push a 200 grain bullet at an adequate velocity with out chamber pressure issues.

[tb1911]

I can't imagine a 40 S&W being able to push a 200 grain bullet at an adequate velocity with out chamber pressure issues.

DoubleTap has a 200 grain load moving at 1050 FPS out of a 4 inch barrel:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=111&osCsid=032cd04tcvj1b34450d69cmnk6

What Doc says makes total sense. I carry 180 grain Gold Dots. I was just curious....

[kmrtnsn]

I like 155gr, doing over 1250fps myself.

[wrinkles]

I like 180gr HST because of the test results below. Could care less how fast it's going or how many foot pounds it has.

.40 S&W Fed 180 gr HST JHP; ave vel=959 fps (S&W 4006)
BG: pen=14.0", RD=0.70", RL=0.43", RW=181.2gr
4LD: pen=15.0", RD=0.56", RL=0.52", RW=180.7gr

[Jake'sDad]

DoubleTap has a 200 grain load moving at 1050 FPS out of a 4 inch barrel: ..

Buy some and chronograph it.

[TiroFijo]

More mass, momentum an energy do not automatically translate into better terminal performance...

And one thing to remember is that auto pistols have an optimum recoil impulse range for reliable function, more recoil and you may get reliability or durability problems.

[KhanRad]

Buy some and chronograph it.

+1

Double Tap exaggerates all of their numbers just as any high velocity ammo peddler would. Dr. Roberts actually did a test on some 155gr Double Tap Gold Dot loads a while back in comparison to regular 155gr and 165gr Gold Dots. The Double Tap load had much more flash, recoil, and was much more dirty. It was actually about 50fps slower than DT had advertized, and it expanded to normal .40 levels......DT claimed it would expand to .45 levels. Overall, the regular 155gr load was a better performer.

After experiencing some overpressure signs with their 9mm and .45acp loads, I wouldn't touch anything made by Double Tap again. :nono:

[kmrtnsn]

More mass, momentum an energy do not automatically translate into better terminal performance...

And one thing to remember is that auto pistols have an optimum recoil impulse range for reliable function, more recoil and you may get reliability or durability problems.

A larger bullet, especially one in the 200gr range in .40 is going to translate to lower energy from the reduced powder charge. the 20gr in bullet mass has to be made up somewhere in the casing so it comes at the cost of reduced powder. Heavy and slow is not a great combo.

[Nephrology]

DoubleTap has a 200 grain load moving at 1050 FPS out of a 4 inch barrel:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=111&osCsid=032cd04tcvj1b34450d69cmnk6

What Doc says makes total sense. I carry 180 grain Gold Dots. I was just curious....

Doubletap is overpriced garbage, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they have on their website.

When I called their customer support line to ask what kinds of 9mm bullets they were loading for their "Remington " 115gr JHPs he avoided answering my question and instead told me about the Barnes XPB that he had for freaking 1.65 a round...

turns out they at one point in time were loading the bargain-bin UMC brand JHP bullets in their 9mm JHPs and selling them at premium prices.

If they do make a 200gr JHP i wouldn't bother with it, anyway. I don't recall who said it above but they were right - ballistics is a bell curve and you don't get something for nothing. the right balance has to be struck and making it heavier or faster won't necessarily make it beter.

edit: looks like we're on the same page here Khan...