Ulyanovsk 122 grain HP

[jimmyp]

the very shallow (0.1 inch deep with pin gauge) steel HP of 122 grains looks like it might be more prone to upset than many traditional 7.62 x 38 bullets. Is there a gelatin test or any other information surrounding this bullet?

[DocGKR]

The only Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant 7.62x39mm projectile we have tested is the Saspan 124 gr JHP (8M3 bullet). From a 16” AKMS the data is:

BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr"

[jimmyp]

thank you this is probably not the same bullet as its clearly marked 122 grains.

[PA PATRIOT]

The only Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant 7.62x39mm projectile we have tested is the Saspan 124 gr JHP (8M3 bullet). From a 16” AKMS the data is:

BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr"

DocGKR,

I see vendors at gun show claiming to sell this loading but how can we identify if the loading has the (8M3 bullet)? I took a chance and picked up a few cases of Sapsan 124gr HP LCB (Cheap) and could not find a lot number anywhere on the case or individual boxes. The boxes are green in color and have a falcon or hawk printed on the top of the box and has a UPC on the side of 4 602514 000017. I checked and a magnet will attach to the nose of the bullet and the steel case is sealed at the primer and neck. There is no year stamp on the rim of the brass just the caliber and Ulyanovsk Machinery plant seal.

[Fail-Safe]

Sapsan came in the "birdie box" and a blue and white striped box. Later on it was in the Wolf Military Classic line.

[Zhukov]

DocGKR,

I see vendors at gun show claiming to sell this loading but how can we identify if the loading has the (8M3 bullet)? I took a chance and picked up a few cases of Sapsan 124gr HP LCB (Cheap) and could not find a lot number anywhere on the case or individual boxes. The boxes are green in color and have a falcon or hawk printed on the top of the box and has a UPC on the side of 4 602514 000017. I checked and a magnet will attach to the nose of the bullet and the steel case is sealed at the primer and neck. There is no year stamp on the rim of the brass just the caliber and Ulyanovsk Machinery plant seal.

I'm pretty sure there's no way to tell. The 8M3 design was probably a fluke, as the Russian ammo manufacturers have never tried to design a fragmenting bullet for the mass market. Furthermore, they constantly muck with the components, so who knows what you're getting nowadays.

[Fail-Safe]

Actually UMP did design it to have some frag to it.

[PA PATRIOT]

Was the 8M3 a copper or bi-metal bullet?

[Fail-Safe]

Bi-metal. However UMP did a lot of scoring on the inside of the jacket. Somewhere there's a picture of an 8M3 bullet dissected and you can see them.

[tpd223]

I know for a fact that this same bullet is, or at least was since I haven't checked in awhile, what they were using in the Wolf "Military Classic" line of ammo.

[PA PATRIOT]

I'll pull and section a few bullets and remove the core to see if the jackets have scoring on the inside.

[Ed L.]

Nevermind, got my signals crossed.

Fail-Safe found this: http:Link to ar15.com Archive (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=124gr+8m3&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=800&bih=415&tbm=isch&tbnid=SqK5wG6ta1L3nM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html%3Fb%3D1%26f%3D5%26t%3D866326&docid=fZXEf_v3lKLXvM&w=485&h=600&ei=5UtpTsivIOOysAKm39G4Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=566&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=99&start=0&ndsp=7&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=33&ty=38)

[PA PATRIOT]

I pulled bullets from both 124gr Wolf Military and Sapsan 124gr HP LCB loadings and did a hack job cutting the bullets open by trapping the bullet in a vise and using a Dermal with a cutting wheel. As one can imagine it was a sloppy attempt but it did appear that the bullet had some type of scoring on the inside of the jacket which traveled about 25% down to ward the base. The below pictures are from Bob1984 at AR15.com http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=866326

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/russianhpbullets9bc.jpg
Wolf MC JHP on left, Wolf Black Box JHP on right:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReBWA_sri4jNrlLPxrYEo23ClG_oWJTJswL6InjhbgIHIqKv1aU85LIa5aqg
Hard to see but there is scoring inside the jacket

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/ulyhp0hc.jpg
Results after being shot into jugs of water.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/jello7.jpg
Here's a gelatin test of the older Saspan, which is a virtually identical loading to the Wolf Military Classic. D. Fortier did this test back in 2000

[Zhukov]

The big question remains: Is Uly-produced HP ammo still using the same bullet or have they switched?