View Full Version : What Were The First Rail Handguns...?
I know the HK USP (1994) beat the Glock Gen 3 by a few years, but were there any before the USP?
Ballistic Agency
09-06-11, 19:23
No production guns that I'm aware of.
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SIG SP 2340 and the Walther P99 were some of ones the first to come with a rail. If my memory serves me they came about mid to late 1990s.
F-Trooper05
09-07-11, 00:25
SIG SP 2340 and the Walther P99 were some of ones the first to come with a rail. If my memory serves me they came about mid to late 1990s.
The USP came out before both of those.
When did the S&W 5906 TSW come out?
I'm pretty sure you hit it with the USP. I've been around handguns a lot longer than the USP has been in production and I can't recall anything at all prior to it.
A note you might appreciate given we both seem to like to take trips down memory lane is the first time I ever recall seeing a light of any kind on any weapon was as a little kid watching Charlton Heston in "The Omega Man". He had one clamped on his S&W 76 smg.
Hopefully I'll be alright with just a movie still.
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/1/18/OM-EarlyFlashlightClamp02a.jpg
Nephrology
09-07-11, 08:26
i'm pretty sure it was the USP. why else would they adopt such a silly proprietary rail system?
I also recall the first time I ever saw a rail mounted anything was the Mk23 SOCOM with its proprietary light/laser combo, the LAM.
gtmtnbiker98
09-07-11, 08:46
i'm pretty sure it was the USP. why else would they adopt such a silly proprietary rail system?
I also recall the first time I ever saw a rail mounted anything was the Mk23 SOCOM with its proprietary light/laser combo, the LAM.Well, since they were the "first" why would it be a silly "proprietary rail system" when it was the only? DUH!
Nephrology
09-07-11, 08:57
Well, since they were the "first" why would it be a silly "proprietary rail system" when it was the only? DUH!
It wasn't silly at the time, but it certainly is silly now!
I think the picatinny rail is too large and edgy for handguns. I much prefer the glock rail.
I'm pretty sure you hit it with the USP. I've been around handguns a lot longer than the USP has been in production and I can't recall anything at all prior to it.
A note you might appreciate given we both seem to like to take trips down memory lane is the first time I ever recall seeing a light of any kind on any weapon was as a little kid watching Charlton Heston in "The Omega Man". He had one clamped on his S&W 76 smg.
Hopefully I'll be alright with just a movie still.
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/1/18/OM-EarlyFlashlightClamp02a.jpg
While not a rail, I can recall various handgun light attachments from the early 80s. My father has some contraption right out of shotgun news which was a light that fit the front frame of your revolver and was held in place by bungee cords.
And there were all manner of small lights that clamped on to the front of the trigger guard. They were usually pretty flimsy.
Yeah I recall things like that. When did LAPD start running the SF lights on their 1911's? That was pretty early on wasn't it?
From what I have heard LAPD Metro Division had some experimental lights mounted to the 1911's in use during the 1984 Olympics.
What about the Steyr M-series and the S&W Sigma? Pretty sure they were after the USP but can't be by much as they had proprietary rails as well.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-07-11, 19:41
Definitly the USP. I remember folks poo-pooing the idea. I suspect it may have been part of the SOCOM slightly before design-wise.
The USP was the first commercially released US handgun with and integral rail. It was released in 1992 or 1993. It was first released in .40 S&W and later became available in 9mm and then .45 acp.
What about the Steyr M-series and the S&W Sigma? Pretty sure they were after the USP but can't be by much as they had proprietary rails as well.
First Steyr Ms had no rail.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-07-11, 23:29
Didn't they have those weird slots for a Steyr mounting system that didnt take off?
Was Mark 23 Mod 0 a little earlier than USP?
Anyway I also think that first "rail" came from HK.
Nephrology
09-08-11, 09:59
Was Mark 23 Mod 0 a little earlier than USP?
Anyway I also think that first "rail" came from HK.
that was what I believed too, I remember their LAM looked really cool in gun mags and video games :D
Actually, I thought the Mk23 came out after the USP. The movie (:rolleyes:) "Executive Decision" had a pistol that was actually a USP decked out to look like the Mk23 becuase it wasn't release yet. I could be wrong as I read it on the errornet.
Either way, I'd say H&K did the rails first. Also, why the Mk23, USP rails are different? That's easy, they're H&K, they can do as they want! Just look at their magazines. The Mk23, USP 45 and USPc 45 all have different magazines. :suicide2:
Mauser KAR98K
09-08-11, 12:00
Actually, I thought the Mk23 came out after the USP. The movie (:rolleyes:) "Executive Decision" had a pistol that was actually a USP decked out to look like the Mk23 becuase it wasn't release yet. I could be wrong as I read it on the errornet.
Either way, I'd say H&K did the rails first. Also, why the Mk23, USP rails are different? That's easy, they're H&K, they can do as they want! Just look at their magazines. The Mk23, USP 45 and USPc 45 all have different magazines. :suicide2:
But they have the same price tag: GOLD.
I taped a flashlight to my 12 gauge hunting gun when we were camping in yote country back in the late 80s.... was I cutting edge back then?
Dude, you were a bar setter.
Also, why the Mk23, USP rails are different? That's easy, they're H&K, they can do as they want!
That is one of the reasons. Second is that Mk23 rail was open in front, to allow slide-on LAM and hanguard had threaded insert to fix it in place. HK engineer come to conclusion that this solution is not so good, so they decided to make rails on USP "closed" so light or laser will not slip even without mounting bolt. Industry went into cross-bolt, probably driven by sole number of Glocks sold with this style rail. In meantime HK once again swims upstream with P2000 GPM rail (picture), but for P2000 US and P2000SK they finally gave up and went with the crowd, up to Picatinny rails on P30, HK45, HK45C.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/montrala/P2000%20P2000SK/DSC03022.jpg
BTW all new HK models use unified magazine, based on USPc magazine. Amazing! :jester:
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-09-11, 10:03
Yet another example of the best design not necessarily rising to the top. Of course, HK probably would have sued Glock if they used the USP system.
Yet another example of the best design not necessarily rising to the top. Of course, HK probably would have sued Glock if they used the USP system.
I do not know if HK design was best. But I remember good quote that I try to translate to English:
"Vanguard today is rearguard tomorrow"
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