View Full Version : Need Help Choosing a Suppressor
Dionysusigma
09-06-11, 18:28
Basically what the title says. I'm building a 96% copy of the Mk18 Mod 0, and from what I've heard (in more ways than one, heh) a suppressor is great, if not outright required for the rifle.
My specs/ requirements:
1) Must be able to attach to an A2 FH, or similar FH/ brake. 3" long AAC or YHM, etc. adapters need not apply. I have no desire or need for QD capability anyway.
2) The intended application for this rifle will be occasional range toy, possible HD, but built to stand up to whatever an AR should be capable of surviving. The suppressor, however, will most likely be used only 25-50% of the time.
3) I'm not looking for "movie quiet." From what I've read, anyway, it's almost impossible. Of course, the quieter the better, but if it means hanging something the size of a 2-liter and as heavy as a 24-pack off the muzzle, I'll pass.
4) Ease of cleaning. I've minor OCD when it comes to my tools and guns, so I've got to be able to get this thing clean. Maybe there's a technique that works well I don't know about, which is entirely possible since I've never owned a can before.
5) Price isn't much of an issue. I figure this will be my only can, and it'll be used pretty much exclusively on the Mk18, so I might as well get the best one right from the get-go. Also, this makes durability important.
So what say everyone? All opinions welcome, as long as this doesn't turn into a mudslinging thread... :)
From what I understand there is currently only one suppressor currently in production that is compatible with the A2 flashhider which is the Gemtech Halo. If you can find one the AAC Omni is also another choice.
The Knight's Armament QD flash suppressor does not appear to be much larger than an A2 and is compatible with the KAC QDSS-NT4 suppressor which is a highly recommended suppressor in these parts.
You may also want to check out the AAC line of muzzle devices. Some are sub 3" in length. And of course they would be compatible with their line of suppressors.
QuietShootr
09-06-11, 19:33
HALO all the way. I have used one for several years on 10.5" in semi and auto, and have had exactly ZERO problems with it.
Don't listen to the steam from AAC fanbois around here. The HALO is a good can.
I think there's a couple of A2 attachable flashhiders, the Halo, the swr renegade and the griffin armament M4sd, among others. I'm really curious about the renegade as it is a new can.
I only own a plain jane m4, but I have been wondering..
I want a suppressor on it. i was looking at the blackside and the kac ones..
but that would make my barrel almost 23" barrel..
i know the law (without a license) is 16" barrel, but would a 10 or 14" barrel with a suppressor legally meet this law or not?
I know i could easily google this but i would rather have an explination pertaining to my exact question then something else.
sorry for my newbness.
*edit* after looking more at the thread i relieze this is in the wrong section, sorry to thread jack
I want a suppressor on it. i was looking at the blackside and the kac ones..
Look at KAC, Surefire, AAC, also YHM, Gemtech... lots of good choices.
but that would make my barrel almost 23" barrel..
Yes, it does.
i know the law (without a license) is 16" barrel, but would a 10 or 14" barrel with a suppressor legally meet this law or not?
1. No License involved, just a background check and a tax to pay ($200)
2. unless the suppressor was permanently attached (welded), it would not meet the >16" barrel requirement.
sorry for my newbness.
No sweat, we all had to start somewhere.
Look at KAC, Surefire, AAC, also YHM, Gemtech... lots of good choices.
Yes, it does.
1. No License involved, just a background check and a tax to pay ($200)
2. unless the suppressor was permanently attached (welded), it would not meet the >16" barrel requirement.
No sweat, we all had to start somewhere.
I dont qwant to threadjack but I dont see another thread meeting my exact questions here....
I'm a short guy, 5'6", im younger...er.. so a 23 inch barrel wont do for me, i mean, with that i could miss the target then knock it over with the suppressor...
now, say i buy a 10.5 inch barrel and add any suppressor(assume 7 inch) thats about 18 inches. perfect length for me, but i'm worried about the welded part, what happens if i need to take it off OR the suppressor wears out? then i have to dremel the weld off?
Basically what the title says. I'm building a 96% copy of the Mk18 Mod 0, and from what I've heard (in more ways than one, heh) a suppressor is great, if not outright required for the rifle.
For a MK18 clone, the 'correct' can would be a Knight's Armament (Currently, the NT-4).
My specs/ requirements:
1) Must be able to attach to an A2 FH, or similar FH/ brake. 3" long AAC or YHM, etc. adapters need not apply.
The Knight's NT-4 mounts to their version of the A2.
Other A2-mount cans are the SWR Renegade and the Gemtech Halo. The AAC, Surefire, and YHM, etc mounts add 1.5" to the gun, the A2 adds about 1.2".
I have no desire or need for QD capability anyway.
You know an A2 mount is a type of QD mount. ;)
2) The intended application for this rifle will be occasional range toy, possible HD, but built to stand up to whatever an AR should be capable of surviving. The suppressor, however, will most likely be used only 25-50% of the time.
Any of the top brands will be able to do this for you- AAC, Surefire, KAC, SWR, OPS, Gemtech, even YHM, etc. If you're not doing full auto mag dumps, the can should last a long time. HOWEVER, since you mentioned running it on a 10" gun, you'd be better served by stepping up to a top tier product that is all-inconel for durability- SF, AAC or KAC. Short 5.56 guns eat up cans.
3) I'm not looking for "movie quiet." From what I've read, anyway, it's almost impossible. Of course, the quieter the better, but if it means hanging something the size of a 2-liter and as heavy as a 24-pack off the muzzle, I'll pass.
You'll never get an AR (in 5.56 at least) anywhere close to quiet. The bullet flight noise alone is close to 140dB. That said, the difference between 165+ dB unsuppressed and 135+ dB suppressed is a huge difference. Just don't expect quiet... You'd be well served by trying to find a dealer near you or a close by owner to demo one or more 5.56 cans for you, so you have realistic expectations.
4) Ease of cleaning. I've minor OCD when it comes to my tools and guns, so I've got to be able to get this thing clean. Maybe there's a technique that works well I don't know about, which is entirely possible since I've never owned a can before.
Maintenance on a centerfire rifle can is minimal- all the best ones are welded and sealed- all that is required is a brush and solvent on the mounting surfaces every now and again. If the can is all stainless or Inconel you can use the "dip" to dissolve anything in there. But, really, there is minimal buildup inside a 5.56 can due to the high pressures and temps involved... you will erode the baffles long before the can fills up with crud.
5) Price isn't much of an issue. I figure this will be my only can, and it'll be used pretty much exclusively on the Mk18, so I might as well get the best one right from the get-go. Also, this makes durability important.
Again, then look at KAC, SF, AAC in no particular order, each has plusses and minuses. Unfortunately, SF prices their cans like their flashlights.
Good luck!
I dont qwant to threadjack but I dont see another thread meeting my exact questions here....
I'm a short guy, 5'6", im younger...er.. so a 23 inch barrel wont do for me, i mean, with that i could miss the target then knock it over with the suppressor...
now, say i buy a 10.5 inch barrel and add any suppressor(assume 7 inch) thats about 18 inches. perfect length for me, but i'm worried about the welded part, what happens if i need to take it off OR the suppressor wears out? then i have to dremel the weld off?
welding a can is a bad idea for a lot of reasons- mainly because of maintenance or repair issues if you have a baffle strike... plus, the welding process can damage both the barrel and the can... like you said, you are stuck with it on the end of your gun.
A can on a 16" gun is not all that bad for at the range, or any activity where you are fine with limited mobility... but it can be unwieldy.
My real advice to you is register a lower as an SBR if you want a compact gun. If not, stick with the 16" gun and look at either an AAC MINI4 or a Surefire Mini.
welding a can is a bad idea for a lot of reasons- mainly because of maintenance or repair issues if you have a baffle strike... plus, the welding process can damage both the barrel and the can... like you said, you are stuck with it on the end of your gun.
A can on a 16" gun is not all that bad for at the range, or any activity where you are fine with limited mobility... but it can be unwieldy.
My real advice to you is register a lower as an SBR if you want a compact gun. If not, stick with the 16" gun and look at either an AAC MINI4 or a Surefire Mini.
I shoot at blackwater(xe) so sometimes i use the little barriers and pop up and shoot and etc, just play around at pop the steel.
so idk if a suppressor is even worth it.
what would you say? a must buy? and EH..buy? or a if you really want buy? I don't know if its cost effective to spend 800$ one something to get used maybe 2 times a year.
I guess i answered my own question..:lol:
Dionysusigma
09-06-11, 21:56
In the interim, between completing the rifle and getting the suppressor, would the Noveske KX3 help with the "blastiness" of it all? Novelty aside, I don't want a 30-shot flashbang. I have a .500 S&W for that :p
I shoot at blackwater(xe) so sometimes i use the little barriers and pop up and shoot and etc, just play around at pop the steel.
so idk if a suppressor is even worth it.
what would you say? a must buy? and EH..buy? or a if you really want buy? I don't know if its cost effective to spend 800$ one something to get used maybe 2 times a year.
I guess i answered my own question..:lol:
my vote- not worth it for you.
In the interim, between completing the rifle and getting the suppressor, would the Noveske KX3 help with the "blastiness" of it all? Novelty aside, I don't want a 30-shot flashbang. I have a .500 S&W for that :p
If you have a 10" 5.56, you will have a blasty gun, doesn't matter much what you put on the end (although a brake will make it worse). I don't like the KX3 because of the size and weight and (to me) minimal benefit.
I find any flash hider - Blackout, phantom, A2, etc to be the least offensive on the sbr.
Raven Armament
09-07-11, 00:02
welding a can is a bad idea for a lot of reasons- plus, the welding process can damage both the barrel and the can...
How does welding a silencer together damage a barrel?
How does welding a silencer together damage a barrel?
I assume from the heating process. it may throw the harmonics off or something.
and uh...suppressor.
How does welding a silencer together damage a barrel?
The heat of welding it correctly is not good for either the barrel or the can. Can it be done? of course. is it a good idea? not in my opinion.
Either suck it up and do an SBR, or deal with the extra length of a can, or skip the can for now.
and uh...suppressor.
The inventor called them "silencers"
In the interim, between completing the rifle and getting the suppressor, would the Noveske KX3 help with the "blastiness" of it all? Novelty aside, I don't want a 30-shot flashbang. I have a .500 S&W for that :p
The KX3 should help to re-direct the blast forward. It's definitely not in the same ball park as a suppressor, but it's better than running a brake on an SBR; some say better than an A2 FH.
jonconsiglio
09-07-11, 08:36
Most modern cans will add about 4" past the end of the muzzle device. Now, just because the AAC blackout, for example, is a bit longer than an A2, that in no way affects the length that's added by the suppressor. Most suppressors are going to be about 6" long, give or take, and start at the point where the rear of the muzzle device meets the end of the barrel. So, whether you have an A2 or the 3 prong AAC blackout which is about an inch longer than an A2, roughly, the overall length will be the same.
Personally, I like the Surefire 212 with a Surefire flash hider for SBR's up to 16". After that for a precision build, I don't mind the break.
If overall length is a major concern, one of the most compact packages that's still covered under warranty will be the AAC Mini on a 10.5" barrel or the Surefire Mini on a 10.5" barrel. The Surefire Micro is only for 14.5" barrels and longer while the mini is good for 10.5" and longer. The Mini from either company is something like 4.5" or 5" long where the m4-2000 and 212 are about 6" long.
Now, the Halo is the way I'd go if I HAD to stay with the A2 flash hider. I know the newest models are a little shorter, but the one I borrowed while hunting with Iraq Ninja added about 7" from the point where the barrel meets the A2. He also had an AAC SPR which adds about the same length as the m4-2000 but the suppressor itself is about 2" longer because it's a reflex (I think that's the term) type of suppressor where it and the muzzle device extend back over the barrel about 2", give or take.
Here's a pic of the Halo and the SPR, then a pic of me with the AAC SPR mount on a 16" BCM middy so you can see how far it extends over the barrel.
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Ranch/IMG_1581.jpg
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Ranch/IMG_1579.jpg
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Ranch/ZMZ_0100.jpg
My specs/ requirements:
1) Must be able to attach to an A2 FH, or similar FH/ brake. 3" long AAC or YHM, etc. adapters need not apply. I have no desire or need for QD capability anyway.
This requirement isn't as important as you think it is. Silencers that attach via this method are louder and not build as heavy duty as ones that use a QD mount.
2) The intended application for this rifle will be occasional range toy, possible HD, but built to stand up to whatever an AR should be capable of surviving. The suppressor, however, will most likely be used only 25-50% of the time.
Which is why you need QD.
3) I'm not looking for "movie quiet." From what I've read, anyway, it's almost impossible. Of course, the quieter the better, but if it means hanging something the size of a 2-liter and as heavy as a 24-pack off the muzzle, I'll pass.
There is no such thing as movie quiet.
4) Ease of cleaning. I've minor OCD when it comes to my tools and guns, so I've got to be able to get this thing clean. Maybe there's a technique that works well I don't know about, which is entirely possible since I've never owned a can before.
No modern centerfire rifle silencer can be taken apart for cleaning.
5) Price isn't much of an issue. I figure this will be my only can, and it'll be used pretty much exclusively on the Mk18, so I might as well get the best one right from the get-go. Also, this makes durability important.
Well this is a competing interest to your first point. All the best most rugged most expensive silencers are QD.
I think you need to buy a KAC NT4 is you want something that attaches to a flash hider similar to that of an A2.
The most important considerations when buying a silencer are listed below with 1 being the most important.
1. Heavy duty, fully welded, SS and inconel
2. Point of aim shift
1 and 2 can be switched depending on application. For example, a precision rifle would have POI shift be 1 and Heavy duty be 2.
3. Method of attachment.
4. Weight
5. Amount of sound reduction (contrary to popular belief, this isn't that important as most leading brands are very similar)
6. Reputable company that will be around years from now to service your silencer
Raven Armament
09-07-11, 10:46
and uh...suppressor.
Silencer is the legal term used in the NFA and definitions as well as muffler (see 27 CFR 478.11 and note "suppressor" is not listed). Silencer and suppressor are used interchangeably in the industry, with suppressor being a more accurate description of the function. Silencer was the marketing term Maxim used and how the devices were known (much like Xerox) so that's what was put into statute.
The heat of welding it correctly is not good for either the barrel or the can. Can it be done? of course. is it a good idea? not in my opinion.
Either suck it up and do an SBR, or deal with the extra length of a can, or skip the can for now.
Oh, you're talking about welding it to the barrel to get a 16"+ OAL barrel length? OK, I get it now. Yes I agree with you. I thought you were talking about welding cans in general.
Raven Armament
09-07-11, 10:54
The most important considerations when buying a silencer are listed below with 1 being the most important.
1. Heavy duty, fully welded, SS and inconel
2. Point of aim shift
1 and 2 can be switched depending on application. For example, a precision rifle would have POI shift be 1 and Heavy duty be 2.
3. Method of attachment.
4. Weight
5. Amount of sound reduction (contrary to popular belief, this isn't that important as most leading brands are very similar)
6. Reputable company that will be around years from now to service your silencer
I agree. A few decibels here and there won't matter much as long as it reduces the overall signature below 139-140dB for hearing protection. Beyond that it's mostly bragging rights.
Eurodriver
09-07-11, 11:27
6. Reputable company that will be around years from now to service your silencer
Like Gemtech?
:ph34r:
Oh, you're talking about welding it to the barrel to get a 16"+ OAL barrel length? OK, I get it now. Yes I agree with you. I thought you were talking about welding cans in general.
Yeah, sorry, there was a side discussion going about welding a can to a short barrel to get around the SBR issue... that's what I was talking about.
But, to expand on welding cans in general, yes, the welding of them can and does warp them a surprising amount, making the final step of an EDM bore all the more important.
Raven Armament
09-07-11, 13:34
No modern centerfire rifle silencer can be taken apart for cleaning.
Thompson Machine makes a 5.56 can that can be taken apart for cleaning.
http://www.thompsonmachine.net/?page_id=2
Liberty's Constitution 5.56 is also a take apart silencer.
Thompson Machine makes a 5.56 can that can be taken apart for cleaning.
http://www.thompsonmachine.net/?page_id=2
Liberty's Constitution 5.56 is also a take apart silencer.
And I don't trust either of those companies to be around in 10 years.
Raven Armament
09-07-11, 19:11
And I don't trust either of those companies to be around in 10 years.
Interesting. They seem to be doing well this far. It sure is a tough market to break into. SilencerCo had a rough entry, but after buying SWR within 5 years of opening for business, SilencerCo must be doing well. Sure is giving AAC a run for their money with the Osprey.
St.Michael
09-08-11, 15:30
not to hijack but since he is looking i figured i would ask here. How are the surefire cans? I notice there is a huge price difference between those and g tech
not to hijack but since he is looking i figured i would ask here. How are the surefire cans? I notice there is a huge price difference between those and g tech
Surefire cans are great.
Definitely top 3 along with KAC and AAC.
They are unfortunately priced like their flashlights. Some think they are worth it, others think they are gouging. Whatever you think of the price, they are a very good product.
St.Michael
09-08-11, 18:03
Yes they are super expensive. Too bad they don't make pistol ones also
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