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How are the Comp M2's compared to the M3's and M4's? I am really confused because I thought that I wanted and EOTECH but now I am looking at the Aimpoints. What are the differences between the models? Is it just the MOA dot or is it something else? The M2's are more in my price range but I want to make sure that I am getting a quality optic for police duty use. Thanks for any advice.
Robb Jensen
11-09-07, 22:04
How are the Comp M2's compared to the M3's and M4's? I am really confused because I thought that I wanted and EOTECH but now I am looking at the Aimpoints. What are the differences between the models? Is it just the MOA dot or is it something else? The M2's are more in my price range but I want to make sure that I am getting a quality optic for police duty use. Thanks for any advice.
Mostly battery life is better with the M3 and even better with the M4 and IIRC both the M3 and M4 have a deeper rating under water.
As gotM4 stated the M3 and M4 have longer battery life and deeper submersion ratings. The M3/M4 are heavier (the M4 is some 4 oz, or almost 60% heavier). The M4 has an integrated mount that is supposed to be more durable and maintain zero better. The M4 uses standard AA batteries.
CM-4, The best buy will be the ML-3. It has the long battery life (5 years) and comes with flip caps and a rubber cover. Get the Larue LT-150 mount as it is the best mount hands down unless you plan on putting something behind it such as a magnifier or night vision. Mount the Aimpoint as far back as it will go next to your BUIS. I would get the 2 minute dot as it will be better for longer shots and if you turn up the illumination it will appear larger for close up work. Just my .02.
;) Billy
M2 has a really long battery life. M3 has a longer battery life and comes with the rubber cover. M3 is available as 2moa or 4moa. M2 only a 4moa. M2 and M3 look identical physically -- differences are internal. M3 may have deeper water submersion, but the M2 can go pretty deep (135 ft versus 75 ft). (Versus EO Tech which is like 33ft or something on a 552 and 11ft on a 512 IIRC).
M4 uses a single AA and has an integrated mount (which you can remove) but performance wise is comparable to an M3. It is 2MOA only.
The ML series (ML-2, ML-3) are basically the M2 and M3 without the night vision settings.
The ML-2 is the best bang for the buck if you don't need NV capability.
Chad
I have a couple EO Techs that I like, but I am investigating Aimpoints now, mostly because of the info I've seen here.
My question is; is the dot on an Aimpoint visible from the front?
I have a couple EO Techs that I like, but I am investigating Aimpoints now, mostly because of the info I've seen here.
My question is; is the dot on an Aimpoint visible from the front?
no it is not
Nathan_Bell
11-10-07, 17:07
CM-4, The best buy will be the ML-3. It has the long battery life (5 years) and comes with flip caps and a rubber cover. Get the Larue LT-150 mount as it is the best mount hands down unless you plan on putting something behind it such as a magnifier or night vision. Mount the Aimpoint as far back as it will go next to your BUIS. I would get the 2 minute dot as it will be better for longer shots and if you turn up the illumination it will appear larger for close up work. Just my .02.
;) Billy
I would disagree, the C3 is the best deal for most usage. gen 3 circuitry so you go 50k on the battery life.
It does not have the flip caps with it, just a bikini cover, and an ok mount. It is only good for 15 feet underwater.
For less than the ML2, it is something that alot of folk over look.
Sidewinder6
11-10-07, 17:28
I run an ML2 and an EOTech on different carbines.
At the moment, I can only site my own brain fart about leaving the ML2 slightly on ( I thought it was off but it was on the first click). The EOTech has auto off.
On the flip side, I have had my EOTech shut down in the middle of a stage.
I like shooting my EOtech better, but I trust my Aimpoint. All the rest is on me right now.
Gunfighter13
11-10-07, 20:24
I have a couple EO Techs that I like, but I am investigating Aimpoints now, mostly because of the info I've seen here.
My question is; is the dot on an Aimpoint visible from the front?
The dot is not visable but the lens is. Buy the flashkill for the front lens and you will be OK.
Look at the new Micro
FJB lent me one for the Vicker/Hackathorn Low Light course - I was very impressed
IMO, anyone who buys the M4 either has money, literally to burn, or is just flat out stupid.
It retails for about (+/-) $300 more than the M3 and offers essentially no real advantages. The mount it comes with? Big deal. Battery life? A nonissue with the previous model...no need for improvement there.
It does literally nothing of value that the previous model didn't do...at a $300 price increase.
I love my M3...love Aimpoints....but the M4, IMO, is throwing money away.
IMO, anyone who buys the M4 either has money, literally to burn, or is just flat out stupid.
It retails for about $300 more than the M3 and offers essentially no real advantages. The mount it comes with? Big deal. Battery life? A nonissue with the previous model...no need for improvement there.
It does literally nothing of value that the previous model didn't do...at a $300 price increase.
I love my M3...love Aimpoints....but the M4, IMO, is throwing money away.
Just some fact checks
The M4 is typically advertised at $702 (MSRP $780).
The M3 is typically advertised at $500.40 (MSRP $556).
That is a $201.60 difference. For that, you get a mount (which most people will find adequate though some will want to replace it) with spacer, which is over $100 in value, plus you get the KillFlash ARD. That is a little more than $32, so the actual difference in price is more like $65-$70 when compared to the M4. For that, you get the ability to use a AA battery instead of 1/3N and maybe some other internal improvements. Whether that is worth it or not each person will have to gauge for themselves. For me personally, it is not such a big deal and my next build will probably have an M3 on it. But in the last 6 months, I have sold more M4 than M3. The M4 started off slowly, but has picked up a little steam.
Chad
Just some fact checks
The M4 is typically advertised at $702 (MSRP $780).
The M3 is typically advertised at $500.40 (MSRP $556).
That is a $201.60 difference. For that, you get a mount (which most people will find adequate though some will want to replace it) with spacer, which is over $100 in value, plus you get the KillFlash ARD. That is a little more than $32, so the actual difference in price is more like $65-$70 when compared to the M4. For that, you get the ability to use a AA battery instead of 1/3N and maybe some other internal improvements. Whether that is worth it or not each person will have to gauge for themselves. For me personally, it is not such a big deal and my next build will probably have an M3 on it. But in the last 6 months, I have sold more M4 than M3. The M4 started off slowly, but has picked up a little steam.
Chad
Better yet, buy your M4 or M3 from LaRue and get the LaRue mount included for FREE!
I paid $702 (+ ~$10 shipping) for the M4 2 weeks ago, got it in 3 days and love it! Long time EO Tech man converted back to the ways of the Aimpoint - it is truly a rugged work of art.
Mike
Just some fact checks
The M4 is typically advertised at $702 (MSRP $780).
The M3 is typically advertised at $500.40 (MSRP $556).
That is a $201.60 difference. For that, you get a mount (which most people will find adequate though some will want to replace it) with spacer, which is over $100 in value, plus you get the KillFlash ARD. That is a little more than $32, so the actual difference in price is more like $65-$70 when compared to the M4. For that, you get the ability to use a AA battery instead of 1/3N and maybe some other internal improvements. Whether that is worth it or not each person will have to gauge for themselves. For me personally, it is not such a big deal and my next build will probably have an M3 on it. But in the last 6 months, I have sold more M4 than M3. The M4 started off slowly, but has picked up a little steam.
Chad
Chad,
You did a good job of nailing this, although you had a typo in the technical data of the CompM2 (it is a 4 MOA not a 2 MOA) in your earlier post.
If you are not diving or using NVDs the best bang for buck is the CompC3 in a LaRue mount.
However, 5Point56 is off the mark on regarding the main difference between a CompM3 and CompM4. The ability to bolt either the Aimpoint mount QRPII (Quick Release Picatinny II) or soon to be release QLP (Quick Lever Picatinny) mount and new Cantilever Spacer or a LaRue mount on to the optic significantly improves the optic's ability to be properly mounted to the carbine/rifle, as well as improves its ability to maintain and retain zero. This proven by the POA/POI demonstration that I routinely perform for military customers and at various carbine classes. I have a CompM4 that has performed this following feat hundreds of times, I shoot a group at 50, 100, or 200 yards (all dependent on what the range will allow) remove it from the carbine throw it across the range, have it thrown back at me. Put it back on the carbine and shot same POA/POI. CompM2/M3s using 30MM ring mounts, even quality ones like LaRue will invariably have POI shift due to movement in the mount. For those who have seen me perform this demo feel free to chime in with your own observations.
The following is quick comparison that I conducted about six months ago. It is based solely on MSRP to keep things Apples to Apples as much as possible. Prices are definitely cheaper as you can purchase Aimpoint sights from LaRue Tactical with his mount well below MSRP of the optic alone.
However, for those waivering on whether to purchase a CompM4 over a CompM3 or CompM2 I think that when you compare actual costs of the M3 and M2 with a mounting solution the choice towards a CompM4 becomes a lot clearer.
CompM4 - $780 w/ Integral QRP II Mount 2 MOA AA battery 80,000 hours
CompM3 - $556 w/out mount 2 or 4 MOA dot 1/3N Lithium 50,000 hours
- $660 w/ QRP Mount @ $104
- $675 w/ LaRue Tactical Mount @ $115
- $709 w/ ARMS Mount @ $153
- $721 w/ GG&G Mount @ $165
CompM2 - $490 w/out mount 4 MOA dot 1/3N Lithium 20,000 hours
- $594 w/ QRP Mount @ $104
- $605 w/ LaRue Tactical Mount @ $115
- $643 w/ ARMS Mount @ $153
- $655 w/ GG&G Mount @ $165
For sake of this thread I'll add the CompC3 into the equation
CompC3 - $415 w/out mount 2 or 4 MOA dot 1/3N Lithium 50,000 hours
- $519 w/ QRP Mount @$104
- $530 w/ LaRue Tactical Mount @ $115
- $568 w/ ARMS Mount @$153
- $580 w/ GG&G Mount @ $165
In the end it is an individual decision based on mission and what you can ultimately afford. While I personally purchased a CompM3 for use in the "kitty litter box" I have also had the luxury of using and beating the snot out of CompM4s over the last 8 months in numerous PR, LAV, JG, Gunsite classes. IMHO the CompM4 is well worth the minor additional cost.
"Buy cheap, Buy Twice." - PR
"Trying to save a dime you'll spend a dollar every time." - RAB
"Prostitute your wife if you have to, but get a red dot sight." - LAV
S/F
Chad,
You did a good job of nailing this, although you had a typo in the technical data of the CompM2 (it is a 4 MOA not a 2 MOA) in your earlier post.
Thanks for catching my brainfart. I tell people this daily (Comp M2 4moa) so I will blame my fingers ;) I edit my earlier post to fix that.
Chad
toddackerman
11-14-07, 15:43
no it is not
No it's not, but the Aimpoint does throw off a little Red Glow from the front. A kill flash would be a good accessory to get.
It is a milspec requirement that the red dot not be seen within a few meters (am not sure if exact distance is classified so I'll leave it at that) from any red dot optic. If set at its lowest visible setting for night use the Aimpoint sight can not be observed within that criteria. Also, if the enemy is close enough that he can see your red dot then he should be seeing other "red, orange, or yellow" glows coming from your carbine.
S/F
I beg to differ about the aimpoint dot not being visible from the front. On the higher settings, both of my aimpoint show red glow from the front. It is slight, but it is still there.
losbronces
11-15-07, 21:41
Better yet, buy your M4 or M3 from LaRue and get the LaRue mount included for FREE!
I paid $702 (+ ~$10 shipping) for the M4 2 weeks ago, got it in 3 days and love it! Long time EO Tech man converted back to the ways of the Aimpoint - it is truly a rugged work of art.
Mike
I also bought one direct from Larue. Its not a bad deal with the Larue mount included (your choice of mount height) and it comes with the Kill Flash. I don't consider myself stupid--but I don't have to pinch pennies either.
The dot is not visable but the lens is. Buy the flashkill for the front lens and you will be OK.
Does the flashkill fit all aimpoints? In particular will it fit my M3?
Does the flashkill fit all aimpoints? In particular will it fit my M3?
yes, it should
FJB's comments above are as usual, accurate and correct in every respect.
What sort of factory mount comes with the C3, and how does it compare, in terms of height, to the mounts that put the irons in the lower 1/3?
Rob, I believe the "default" mount is a low mount, that's why I have it on the 556 for now. I have a 2MOA C3. The flip-up lens & rubber covers were included in the deal (bought barely used).
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/mdl729_photos/9a569331.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/mdl729_photos/68f4d84d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/mdl729_photos/ebc68b5b.jpg
So this thing (http://www.mountsplus.com/thestore/prods/AIM-819-3BX.html)?
So this thing (http://www.mountsplus.com/thestore/prods/AIM-819-3BX.html)?
You got it! I think you won't even bother taking that mount of of the box :D
I'm going to order one of the American Defense mounts and migrate the Aimpoint C3 to an AR soon.
I beg to differ about the aimpoint dot not being visible from the front. On the higher settings, both of my aimpoint show red glow from the front. It is slight, but it is still there.
Supertac,
Which Aimpoint sights are you using and are they adjusted to an appropriate setting for low light/night use. All CompM sights meet MilSpec standards regarding visibility of the red dot from front. Again that is with the red dot adjusted appropriately (low visible setting) for low light/night use. If it is turned up to "the higher" settings the red dot signature from the front does increase, but it would be a by product of poor training and TTPs to use red dot sights in a low light environment at those "higher" settings.
EDinFL,
The ARD Kill Flash will fit all CompM and ML sights (except the ML 2X) and the C3 (except the C3 2X) as it screws into the front objective lens housing.
S/F
And the switch. No you are not stupid. It is easy to say that the Comp M4 is the toughest optic (electronic or otherwise) made. Just ask FJB about the insane stuff he does to them. Flash-bang anyone? I have personally abused the M4 in ways that would make you puke, and FJB, always one-up’s me when it comes to sadistic treatment of equipment.
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