View Full Version : Glock Gen 4 RSA Exchange
From teamglock.com (http://www.teamglock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange)
GLOCK Inc. is voluntarily exchanging the recoil spring assembly (RSA) on its new Gen4 pistols (with the exception of G26 and G27 models). GLOCK has developed a new design to the recoil spring assemblies on its Gen4 pistols to replace several variations that are functioning in the market today. As part of the company’s commitment to perfection, we are voluntarily exchanging the existing RSA in order to ensure our products perform up to GLOCK’s stringent standards.
GLOCK is replacing the RSA in all Gen4s sold before July 22, 2011 at no cost. Please complete the following procedure to receive a new RSA. The RSA can safely and simply be swapped out using normal field stripping protocols. If you have additional questions, please contact GLOCK at 1-877-745-8523 with your serial number and model number.
CONSUMER ACTION:
Call 1-877-745-8523 with your serial number and model number to request your modified RSA. GLOCK will verify your serial number and collect shipping information
Within 30 days, GLOCK will send you a replacement RSA along with a pre-addressed envelope to mail in your old spring
Ensure your Gen4 is completely unloaded
Field strip your GLOCK per the instructions found in your ‘Instructions for Use’ manual that came with your pistol and replace the old RSA with the new one
Place the old RSA in the supplied shipping container and give to the United States Postal Service (USPS)
finally... public admission that there's a problem.
now we just need an extractor exchange.
The text below should have been included in Glock's email that seemingly has not been sent to all of their certified armorers despite collecting email addresses in armorer class for quite some time.
"We at Glock humbly apologize for failing to adequately test our RSAs across our model line before the models were released. This failure coupled with money saving measures we implemented in the production of our extractors has led to the release of pistols that have failed to live up to our previously unequally standard of reliability, particularly in the G17 and 19 models.
With this RECALL, we will replace all affected RSA, EXTRACTORS AND pledge
to never let cost savings get in the way of R and D, and the ultimate delivery of a quality product as we have already recovered out initial investment many times over given our pioneering use of polymer and multi media injection molding in the production of our pistols.
As a small token of our appreciation, we would like to extend a 40.00 USD cash value coupon or a coupon for two (2) magazines to all affected late 2010 Gen 3 (Extractor issues) in the following serial number range and all Gen 4 (Extractor and RSA issues)customers for their future purchase of a Glock Pistol or Magazines.
Again we humbly apologize for our actions and respectfully hope that we will be given a chance to redeem ourselves by our loyal customers, past, present and future."
Edited to add:
Quite frankly, as a result of GLOCK's falures, if I could afford to switch platforms, I would seriously consider it on pricipal alone.
Unfortunately, given all of my personal time, talent and treasure I have spent with Glock since 1991(8 pistols, dozens of magazines, misc small parts, holsters, mag pouches and multiple classes, tens of thousands of rounds reloaded, purchased, bartered or other wise expended,) it would be difficult to do so.
RANT ON
What group of maroons thought that you could fix an undersprung .40 with a new RSA and then use that same RSA in a 9mm platform and not have problems?
What group of maroons thought that you could change the production method and/or source of extractors on top of the RSA change and not think you were going to have problems?
What group of maroons thought that with forums such as this and brand specific ones that "news" of these FAILURES on the part of GLOCK were not going to be discovered and widely disemenated in realtively short order?
And on an wholly personal and superficial note, I am tired of getting my balls busted by other non glock shooters and non shooters in general given this fiasco as I have been such a staunch Glock advocate in the past.
RANT OFF
got mine for my 17 and 22. Pretty happy about the step in the right direction.
lasvegasone
09-09-11, 09:35
Can you identify the number markings on the RSA?
(Example: 0 - 2 - 1)
Can you identify the number markings on the RSA?
(Example: 0 - 2 - 1)
0 4 3 and just call them, they will mail it out. Stamp addressed envelope for return of old one,
pilotguyo540
09-09-11, 10:11
Can someone please post the serial number range for the late gen 3's?
My gen 3 reference was regarding the extractor issue only, sorry for the confusion.
Long Tom Coffin
09-09-11, 10:43
Edited to add:
Quite frankly, as a result of GLOCK's falures, if I could afford to switch platforms, I would seriously consider it on pricipal alone.
Unfortunately, given all of my personal time, talent and treasure I have spent with Glock since 1991(8 pistols, dozens of magazines, misc small parts, holsters, mag pouches and multiple classes, tens of thousands of rounds reloaded, purchased, bartered or other wise expended,) it would be difficult to do so.
RANT ON
What group of maroons thought that you could fix an undersprung .40 with a new RSA and then use that same RSA in a 9mm platform and not have problems?
What group of maroons thought that you could change the production method and/or source of extractors on top of the RSA change and not think you were going to have problems?
What group of maroons thought that with forums such as this and brand specific ones that "news" of these FAILURES on the part of GLOCK were not going to be discovered and widely disemenated in realtively short order?
And on an wholly personal and superficial note, I am tired of getting my balls busted by other non glock shooters and non shooters in general given this fiasco as I have been such a staunch Glock advocate in the past.
RANT OFF
Whoa, slow down champ. I can understand your frustration with some of the recent glock issues, because believe me I know plenty of people who share them (including myself), but lets keep things in reason. Here, allow me to counter your rant with a little...
Nobody denies the fact that there have been some serious RSA and extractor related issues with the current crop of the most popular glock pistols (the 17,19 and .40 cals). There is a small minority of pistols in which issues with these parts may arise. And yea, Glock ****ed up in some respects. But as I have mentioned previously, ad nauseum, the Gen 4 isn't a company killer and will eventually become just as reliable as the Glocks of Legend. That point isn't right now, but I do believe it is swiftly approaching.
In the meantime, since glock has screwed up, which they have done before and probably will do again, what are you going to switch to based off of principle alone? M&P's, with the early rust, barrel timing, and slide cracking issues? Kimber, with cracking frames and faulty firing pins? Kahr, which can't tell QC from their own asshole so they can drill firing pin holes in correctly? Modern SIGS, which are now over blinged and just a step above shit? Even HK has had problems and issues in the past. What would you switch to that would be objectively better than Glocks?
Each company has gone through its share of ****ups and mishaps. That's something that is just going to happen, so you better get used to it. It's happened before, it's happening now, and it will happen again at some point in the future.
There have been plenty of issues with Glocks in the past. But as I have already previously mentioned in other posts, those issues were all ironed out, and the products that resulted have come to define what is standard for the field. For example, it was the Gen 3's that had the infamous NYPD Phase III issue, yet I don't hear anyone citing that as evidence that the Gen 3's are unreliable. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Despite that issue, the Gen 3 19's were vaunted as the most reliable glocks in existence. The Gen 4 won't be any different. And honestly, your chances of getting a fully functional Gen 4 19 or 17 are significantly better than getting one that is a lemon. I've been shooting Gen 4's since they came out, and I have never had an issue with either of the two that I currently own, in addition to the late make Gen 3 19 which I also now own, which is supposed to be "bum" too. Each of these pistols is a solid platform which runs exactly like glocks are supposed to. And this has been my experience from watching other people shoot them. I hang out at a range owned by cops which is frequented by cops who use the Glock as a duty weapon. Many of the have Gen 4s. Many of them are still rocking the original springs, and have had no issues. As a matter of fact, most of the issues I am aware of come from 2 instances of first hand experience, countered by dozens of positive first hand experiences, and then reports from the internet. That should tell you something. I've been to three separate gunshops in the past month, and my range. In all 4 places, the proprietor of each was wearing a Gen 4, and was absolutely effusive in their praise of it. In all three cases, as well, each store and the rang was sold out of Gen 4's. Each one only had late model Gen 3 19's available.
Yep, glock screwed the pooch a little bit because the QC with the extractors slipped and the customers were the beta testers for the Gen 4. But show me a company that hasn't had manufacturing or testing problems before and I'll ditch all my glocks and roll with that manufacturer.
I think in this instance, Glock is a victim of its own marketing success. Everybody who's been around long enough knows that "Glock Perfection" is just another cleverly crafted marketing gimmick. Glocks are great pistols, and I think the 19 is perhaps the best CCW piece ever developed, but perfect they are definitely not. Unfortunately, there's probably a fair number of people who bought into that and thanks to the current Gen 4 fiasco, they are upset because now they are finally recognizing it for the gimmick it is.
Glock is just like any other gun manufacturing company. They are owned and operated by humans who are fallible just like everyone else in this industry. To expect anything more or less is a waste of time.
Nephrology
09-09-11, 11:10
Whoa, slow down champ. I can understand your frustration with some of the recent glock issues, because believe me I know plenty of people who share them (including myself), but lets keep things in reason. Here, allow me to counter your rant with a little...
Nobody denies the fact that there have been some serious RSA and extractor related issues with the current crop of the most popular glock pistols (the 17,19 and .40 cals). There is a small minority of pistols in which issues with these parts may arise. And yea, Glock ****ed up in some respects. But as I have mentioned previously, ad nauseum, the Gen 4 isn't a company killer and will eventually become just as reliable as the Glocks of Legend. That point isn't right now, but I do believe it is swiftly approaching.
In the meantime, since glock has screwed up, which they have done before and probably will do again, what are you going to switch to based off of principle alone? M&P's, with the early rust, barrel timing, and slide cracking issues? Kimber, with cracking frames and faulty firing pins? Kahr, which can't tell QC from their own asshole so they can drill firing pin holes in correctly? Modern SIGS, which are now over blinged and just a step above shit? Even HK has had problems and issues in the past. What would you switch to that would be objectively better than Glocks?
Each company has gone through its share of ****ups and mishaps. That's something that is just going to happen, so you better get used to it. It's happened before, it's happening now, and it will happen again at some point in the future.
There have been plenty of issues with Glocks in the past. But as I have already previously mentioned in other posts, those issues were all ironed out, and the products that resulted have come to define what is standard for the field. For example, it was the Gen 3's that had the infamous NYPD Phase III issue, yet I don't hear anyone citing that as evidence that the Gen 3's are unreliable. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Despite that issue, the Gen 3 19's were vaunted as the most reliable glocks in existence. The Gen 4 won't be any different. And honestly, your chances of getting a fully functional Gen 4 19 or 17 are significantly better than getting one that is a lemon. I've been shooting Gen 4's since they came out, and I have never had an issue with either of the two that I currently own, in addition to the late make Gen 3 19 which I also now own, which is supposed to be "bum" too. Each of these pistols is a solid platform which runs exactly like glocks are supposed to. And this has been my experience from watching other people shoot them. I hang out at a range owned by cops which is frequented by cops who use the Glock as a duty weapon. Many of the have Gen 4s. Many of them are still rocking the original springs, and have had no issues. As a matter of fact, most of the issues I am aware of come from 2 instances of first hand experience, countered by dozens of positive first hand experiences, and then reports from the internet. That should tell you something. I've been to three separate gunshops in the past month, and my range. In all 4 places, the proprietor of each was wearing a Gen 4, and was absolutely effusive in their praise of it. In all three cases, as well, each store and the rang was sold out of Gen 4's. Each one only had late model Gen 3 19's available.
Yep, glock screwed the pooch a little bit because the QC with the extractors slipped and the customers were the beta testers for the Gen 4. But show me a company that hasn't had manufacturing or testing problems before and I'll ditch all my glocks and roll with that manufacturer.
I think in this instance, Glock is a victim of its own marketing success. Everybody who's been around long enough knows that "Glock Perfection" is just another cleverly crafted marketing gimmick. Glocks are great pistols, and I think the 19 is perhaps the best CCW piece ever developed, but perfect they are definitely not. Unfortunately, there's probably a fair number of people who bought into that and thanks to the current Gen 4 fiasco, they are upset because now they are finally recognizing it for the gimmick it is.
Glock is just like any other gun manufacturing company. They are owned and operated by humans who are fallible just like everyone else in this industry. To expect anything more or less is a waste of time.
I know I've already agreed with you on this point in another thread but I'll voice my approval a second time. I do believe that Glock will recover from this and at some point in the future I will undoubtedly own a Gen 4.
The internet is a vast echo chamber in which people will hear something, repeat it once, and hear the same thing they parroted repeated back to them by somebody else. In each instance, there is no perspective given to the sorts of errors or faults in the gun and there is no mention of the company's response to their problem.
This would be akin to me working at nuclear reactor and being diagnosed with skin cancer later in life. I would rant all about how the deadly maximum 5 Rem per year of radiation irradiated my skin and caused deadly mutations in my epithelium, and how if you look at the numbers there is clearly an increased risk of cancer associated with working in the nuclear industry! There would be someone else online who worked at a nuclear power plant that confirm that they, too, had developed cancer later as a result, and the next thing you know nobody would ever work in nuclear power or research ever again, despite the fact that the statistical probability of developing cancer even with the maximum allowed 5 Rem per year dose is an increase of only 0.1%.
We blow things out of proportion in firearms because we typically carry these guns with us every day and trust our lives with them. There is nothing wrong with that. but keep in mind that there is a certain stochastic nature associated buying or doing ANYTHING. Hell you are probably taking a much greater and more serious risk by getting in your car to drive to work every day than you are by buying a Gen 4 Glock, which MAY be unreliable and MAY jam in the RARE instance that you have to use it in self defense.
Nobody out there should be satisfied with a bad gun, but please, let's avoid shitting the bed over this ok?
I appreciate the perspective to my admitted emotionally charged response. I fully understand that all companies make mistakes.
I concur that Glock continues to exceed the intersection of quality/value and price the vast majority of the time.
What is personally disturbing is the utter lack of ownership in the problem. Glock does not use the words -mistake, fault, apology, sorry etc. Do you really think there was sound engineering behind using the same RSA which most think was designed to fix an underspring .40, particularly when running a WML , after the 11 coil mag spring with the # 9 follower were not universially effective, in
9mm platforms which by all accounts, were extremely reliable?
OR
Was the decision to field such parts driven by the inherent cost savings of having as a goal to have as many common parts as possible across the brand? How much did Glock think they were going to save given the fact that there have been many published reports which suggest that Glock pistols now cost the company somewhere between 55-80 USD to produce.
I know that statisticaly speaking, Glock is extremely reliable, out of the box, for all models, all calibers, all generations relative to the vast majority of pistols on the market. However, statistics are of little comfort when your are the notable exception at a personally most inoportune time.
This particular sets of QC issues, IMHO, simply did not have to be.
And, for the record , I am not shitting the bed, perhaps just a bit of sharting...fully contained in my underoos :)
R3V3LATIONS
09-09-11, 12:06
Admitting there is a problem is the first step to correcting the issue. Hopefully all goes well for them and the dark days of glock dissappear as quickly as they came, but until then, only handguns I will be buying are HK's (P30 in 9mm and the Hk.45) even if it takes me more time and money to aquire them. My life, to me, is invaluable, so I will pay more to protect it.
So after reading post in here, I decided to give glock a call and see what they can do. I have a Gen4 23, so they sent me out a new RSA which is great. But, then I asked about the Gen3 extractor issues for my 19 and 17. Talked to 2 different tech support guys and both of them said there are no issues with any generation extractors. Now, I am a little confused and wondering can anyone shine some light on this?
Long Tom Coffin
09-09-11, 13:35
The internet is a vast echo chamber in which people will hear something, repeat it once, and hear the same thing they parroted repeated back to them by somebody else. In each instance, there is no perspective given to the sorts of errors or faults in the gun and there is no mention of the company's response to their problem.
Best summation of the current internet reports I've seen yet. The error is always given, but the context is always lacking.
Nobody out there should be satisfied with a bad gun, but please, let's avoid shitting the bed over this ok?
I could have deleted my entire previous post and just replaced it with this line :)
Long Tom Coffin
09-09-11, 13:47
I appreciate the perspective to my admitted emotionally charged response. I fully understand that all companies make mistakes.
I concur that Glock continues to exceed the intersection of quality/value and price the vast majority of the time.
Okay, I'll cop to that. I definitely think Glock was in err (although I don't think it's as egregious as some), and yea, I definitely think that some sort of admittance of fault would be nice, but good luck getting any company to do that in modern times. That could pose a serious PR issue. Shit, look at the problems Toyota was having with their line up of cars a couple of years ago. They initially swept everything under the rug, thought up "fix" after "fix", and it finally took people dying in their vehicles and a congressional hearing or two to get their asses to fess up. And, much like glock , they were reputed to be the most reliable in the business.
Sure, an apology would be nice. But honestly I don't expect squat. If they work behind the scenes to fix the issue and then up and say "Heh heh, wellllll.....this never really happened.", honestly, I'm not going to complain too much. I know some people may disagree with that, but my primary concern is getting all the glocks running like they should, and Glock itself to learn from this mistake.
This is all part of the new business paradigm that I've talked about previously, which seems to have arisen over the past couple of years. It's all about cost cutting, the bottom line, and putting out a majority of acceptable product. Having a small margin of defective products may well be within the profit ratio if they can sell enough working products to overshoot the slack caused by returns and fixes. I'm seeing the same thing with my local AB products since Inbev took them over. That ****ing brazilian in charge is beholden to the almighty dollar, so out the window goes AB's charitable works, concern for market share, and general product quality. All in favor of the bottom line. The situation is even worse for the pre-Inbev AB employees, but that's a discussion for another time.
It was only a matter of time before this bottom line mentality seeped through into the gun industry. But seep through it has. People can dislike it as much as they want, but the way I see it, we'll be very fortunate if this is as bad as it gets.
EDIT: Apparently the glock CS dept has a Gen 4 auto message stating that the glock engineers have been "enhancing and refining" the Gen 4 series "Focusing primarily on the RSA assembly". The message then goes on to state that although spring replacement is recommended at 5,000 rounds, Glock recommends immediately replacing your current RSA with the "enhanced" RSA that "you will receive shortly" immediately. Then you are to ship the old RSA back to glock in a prepaid envelope that will accompany the new one.
Blech. I just called to make sure and that message is spot on. This is either really funny or really sad, I can't make up my mind which yet.
lasvegasone
09-09-11, 15:03
0 4 3 and just call them, they will mail it out. Stamp addressed envelope for return of old one,
Is 0-4-3 RSA the new replacement version for the G17?
in all seriousness glock is trying to make it right, they've acknowledged recoil spring AND extractor issues, are offering a fix, and some mags/money as a consolation... that's pretty cool. probably more than HK would do, if they ever make a mistake. :o
Personally i'm still solid on glock. my ~08 model OD g19 is in the region of 15k rounds. great gun. glock also replaced a bunch of my beat up old mags with brand new ones for free. pretty awesome. It's a beautifully simple, elegant platform that shoots great.
ok fanboy rant over. :o
in all seriousness glock is trying to make it right
They should exchange the guns for Gen 3s then! :)
skyugo,
I think dojpros' post about GLOCK is what they should have said and done, not what they said and are doing...
But you can't hurt a guy for dreaming. :happy:
Is 0-4-3 RSA the new replacement version for the G17?
My chart has the RSA as 0-2-4 and the SPO#8284
The 0-4-3 is for the Glock 19
Hope this helps.
They should exchange the guns for Gen 3s then! :)
after all they wasted on R&D.... :o
I guess I have to pass as I'm not sending back two original .40 weight unmarked RSA's that have run 8K through one Gen 4 G17 and 2300 through another with no problems.
I'm probably going to wait to send mine in.
My G19 with the 0-3 spring has been flawless in my hands and handles +P recoil with ease. 3125 rounds in the past year. The only problems have been with my 14 year old, limp wristing cousin from the UK named Abigail. She has experienced a few FTEs with 320FPE Blazer Brass.
Hi,
in all seriousness glock is trying to make it right, they've acknowledged recoil spring AND extractor issues, are offering a fix, and some mags/money as a consolation...
Where are you seeing this? I've not seen anything about them replacing extractors, or offering mags/money...
I think dojpros is spot on. For the longest time everyone perhaps took for granted that a new Glock would be good to go. I am very disappointed in the turn of events that has been the MIM extractor / gen 4 debacle. For Glock's sake, I hope they get their act together and get back on track, sadly for them there are a lot of alternatives these days and they are giving up the very market they were probably hoping to capture with the gen4.
dojpros - you asked what morons would use the same RSA for 9mm and 40/357? The same morons who have used the same RSA for years. The difference is that before they used one tuned to 9mm and you just had excessive slide velocity on the 40/357 models. Sadly, it has always been about cost with Glock, they just took too many $$$ shortcuts this time and got caught on it.
Thanks,
Alan
skyugo,
I think dojpros' post about GLOCK is what they should have said and done, not what they said and are doing...
But you can't hurt a guy for dreaming. :happy:
that's what i get for skimming threads. :o
so the extractor is still secret? :rolleyes:
In the good old days of Police and Security in Toronto Canada, I taught those Ladies and Gentlemen.
I had two cases, foam lined, with ten S&W mixed models, Mod 10/64/65. Ammunition used was copper washed lead, at 160g, my own reloads. Also 3 Glocks, two G17s one G19, for in house only personnel.
Whilst visiting the Toronto Police College, I observed the testing of a batch of Mod 64 S&W, 40% was returned, faulty! Now I think some of the faults were nit picking, but some! The revolver would not fire!
So imagine, new small Police Dept. Drop 6 rounds in the cylinder, and holster up. Not one of these 4th Gen. Glocks failed to fire that first shot. My two, with P+P 127g Ranger T, no problems, fired, ejected, re chambered. Changed to 147g none +p Ranger T, same results, flawless.
Practice ammo, problems. Now do not get me wrong, they should work with that ammo, all my others did.
I still think the Glock 19 is the best fighting/self defense pistol in the world. Set up right. TruGlow sights, Pearce plug, 3.5 connector (gives 4.5 release) extended slide release (slide lock lever!) and a wee polish internally.
Admitting there is a problem is the first step to correcting the issue. Hopefully all goes well for them and the dark days of glock dissappear as quickly as they came, but until then, only handguns I will be buying are HK's (P30 in 9mm and the Hk.45) even if it takes me more time and money to aquire them. My life, to me, is invaluable, so I will pay more to protect it.
i feel like this statement is slightly ironic. i'm just pointing this out and it's not meant at all as an attack, but a point i suppose i have to pick with hk.
glock with this statement shows that they are actually listening to feedback from the world at large, whether that response came directly from the internet (if there's such a thing) or from their law enforcement contracts etc.
i don't know if hk has ever listened to the public about anything. it's for this reason that i would not buy an hk product.
the future of firearms is modularity, ergonomics, etc. this stuff requires end user feedback and evolution of a model brand. just by glock's marketing system of one model throughout the years being refined by generational revisions shows a direct acceptance of this concept.
s&w seems to be doing the same with their m&p without the generational naming scheme.
what on earth is hk doing? who knows.
sorry for the derail.
so the extractor is still secret? :rolleyes:
Must be.
My Gen4 G17 with stock internals: 12 FTE in 900 rounds
My Gen4 G17 with a LWD extractor and WSD HRED: 3 FTE in 3020 rounds
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