View Full Version : Hard Armor Help.
I feel like a moron for asking this but here goes:
I have a shoothouse class comming up in a couple of months and I have never made a personal armor purchase. The next step in my life is le so I will be purchasing quality armor (soft and hard) for myself at some point. But until I am there, I see no reason to put down $1000-$3000 for quality plates. And even then, I don't see myself using expensive plates for training anyway.
So I am looking for dedicated training plates offering level 3 or preferably level 4 stand alone protection. For this class, the rifle rounds will be frangible but I have been to full ballistic shoothouses so level 4 protection would be preferred.
I found some cheap steel plates that offer level 3 but I have never used crappy plates so I don't know how they fare as far as comfort goes. I don't mind the extra weight during training but I don't want my mobility to be hampered due to discomfort. I like the added duribility of steel plates but other than price, that's the only other benefit I can see.
Does anyone have any ideas? I was looking to cap my cost at $400. Not really an affordability issue but if I'm going to spend much more than that, I may as well go ahead and buy quality plates for future use.
Thanks guys.
P.S. Feel free to tell me if I'm being a retard for wanting dedicated training plates. I've never paid for plates and they are damn expensive so I may be being overcautious in my thinking.
P.S. Feel free to tell me if I'm being a retard for wanting dedicated training plates. I've never paid for plates and they are damn expensive so I may be being overcautious in my thinking.
Not at all. There's Mil/LE guys who have dedicated training plates so they don't fudge up their good ceramics in training.
Think of armor as a "system" rather than just plates or vest.
Are you going to be using a full armor system (e.g. CIRAS) or just a plate carrier worn over soft armor?
You can find inexpensive plates online, both steel and ceramic. Look at bodyarmoroutlet.com for just plates.
If you're looking for soft and hard armor along with carriers or vests I've been very happy with Mayflower and Tyr Tactical.
Thanks so far guys. I should have added that I have a plate carrier. I'm going to run it pretty slick since I don't have issued duty gear. Just a double rifle 2-mag pouch (lower left front), 2 pistol mag pouch (right above rifle mag pouches) and a general purpose pouch to the right of the rifle pouches. I use the general purpose mostly to hold rifle mags during tac or retention reloads until I have a chance to squeeze them back in my mag pouches. I won't need an ifak, radio, fixed blade knife, or any duty gear. After the academy and when I'm hired, I'll run training with what I am issued and use daily. Until then, I see no point in going all "tactical ninja." :)
Hopefully that helps. I appreciate the info and suggestions.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=18147&tabid=548
I use these for duty, they're in your price range. The plates are triple curve LVL IV stand alones, and weigh about 8 lbs each.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=18147&tabid=548
I use these for duty, they're in your price range. The plates are triple curve LVL IV stand alones, and weigh about 8 lbs each.
That looks perfect for me. Thanks you very much.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=18147&tabid=548
I use these for duty, they're in your price range. The plates are triple curve LVL IV stand alones, and weigh about 8 lbs each.
XXXXXXXXXXXX Damn! That's perfect except they will only sell to current le/mil. Damn!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Edit: Got it sorted out with them. Thanks brother!
ForTehNguyen
09-09-11, 17:19
BAE Systems Eclipse plates are the lightest weight standalone Level IV plates you can get now.
http://www.skdtac.com/BAE_NIJ_IV_SA_Plate_p/amr.114.htm
Medium size 9.5"x12.5" BAE plate is equivalent in size to the 10x12" Max Pro one but weighs 5.6lbs instead of 7.5lbs. Pricier yes, but thats 4 less lbs total. Just another option to consider.
I have the BAE plates from SKD in Medium...very nice plates. Fits a little snug in my Crye JPC. I think I'm gonna buy some Team Wendy training plates for classes.
Thanks for the info about BAE, I took a look before ordering the max pro and they look like great plates. I was about to add to cart and I realized the medium won't be available until sometime in November so I would be screwed for my time frame.
AK44 - Just curious, why would you get non-ballistic training plates? Unless you wear full kit for a living, I don't see the benefit of using them. Just curious.
Anyway, I owe my thanks to everyone here.
I'd rather ding up and beat up non ballistic training plates as oppose to my good ones. Just my personal preference I suppose.
I hear you brother, same reasoning I'm going with. But I would def want ballistic protection during shoothouse/MOUT training. I see your point though that you can train on a square range as you fight without messing up good armor. My thinking is the same except I wouldn't be fighting in armor just yet so I see no reason for me to go to a square range in full kit. What you're saying makes sense to me.
Thanks again to everyone for helping me find the right armor for my needs so quickly.
Ah sorry about that, I didn't mean I would run non ballistics in a shoot house course. (I believe it's mandatory to have ballistic protection for those kinds of courses correct?) Just regular carbine/pistol courses where it isn't a 360 environment.
ForTehNguyen
09-10-11, 11:19
SKD has 10% off on 9/11 so those BAE plates would also be 10% off
Anybody know a place to buy the BAE plates SKD used to sell? Haven't had any luck finding them. Need XL for both. Any help would be appreciated
learner-gr
02-19-12, 04:20
One question
I have these plates :
http://www.vestguard.co.uk/ballistic-plates/level-iii-3-max1-hard-armour-plate.htm
There are multi hit. I also have seen other level 3+ plates that they are multi hit. If a plate is level 4 can withstand multi hits from say 7,62 projectiles (Non AP)? Or they are one hit and they crack?
The problem with the NIJ ratings is that lvl IV only means that it will withstand ONE impact from a .30-06 AP round, since that is what the rating requires. The testing doesn't test for stopping more than one impact. That doesn't mean that it won't, it just means that the rating only requires the plate to stop one round of AP to pass.
IMHO, the current NIJ ratings system is obsolete and needs to be updated to reflect higher expectations due to advancements in armor technology.
My personal experience with shooting a level III ICW ceramic plate (a Croation plate) is this:
Each shot of 5.56 produced a shattered area about 1" in diameter. Another shot impacting within that area would very likely penetrate, since most of the ceramic in this area had shattered and fallen away from the plate, exposing the thin ballistic backing material.
7.62x51 produced a shattered area about 5-6" in diameter. Much of this shattered area, especially around the center of the impact, was devoid of ceramic as it had shattered and been propelled outward from the plate. Rounds impacting in this area would likely go through as there was little ceramic remaining and the rounds would simply zip through the backing.
Even when the plate was completely fractured, areas with enough cracked ceramic remaining in place would still stop 5.56.
My observation was that even fractured ceramic will stop 5.56, so long as enough of it is present. I can't comment on how backface deformation would come into play with this, as the plate was simply set up and shot.
A lvl IV plate would need to be tested to determine whether or not it could withstand multiple hits. This is the reason for the lvl III/IV advertizement of some plates: it supposedly refers to being able to stop 1 shot of AP, per the lvl IV requirement, as well as a new plate also passing a separate test using multiple spaced rounds of ball, per the lvl III requirement.
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