TA31RCO-M4CP ACOG holdovers at closer ranges.....

[xbmxracerx]

Indoor range today to record holdovers at close ranges 25 yards and in with the TA31RCO-M4CP
I'll take these.....for now
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG03279-20110717-1316.jpg



Once the ACOG is zero'ed at 100, the BDC(bullet drop compensator)should be accurate out to 800(for elevation only-windage would be done utilizing the horizontal dashes on the sight(as shown in the very last pic).

15 shots....3 at each range:

@ 25Y, hold was at the 300M post

@ 20Y, hold was just below the 400M dash(around 410)

@ 15Y. hold was just below the 500M dash(around 515)

@ 10Y, hold was just below the 600M dash(around 625)

@ 5Y, hold was at 750M

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/270552_2161389710300_1113293683_2579133_3533945_n.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/ACOGReticle.jpg

From the ACOG book......edited.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG03309-20110720-0722.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG03315-20110720-0724.jpg


*updated..... @50y hold is at the 200M bottom section (not the tip of the ^ but the inside top part.....the "crotch" as JSantoro calls it) of the Chevron reticle

[JSantoro]

That's more or less correct. When teaching Marines, we'd refer to the 200m aimpoint as the "crotch." Describing it as a "lower apex" or anything like it often resulted in a tilted head and a Scooby-Doo noise.

One should never underestimate the power of bathroom humor to get a point across.

[xbmxracerx]

That's more or less correct. When teaching Marines, we'd refer to the 200m aimpoint as the "crotch." Describing it as a "lower apex" or anything like it often resulted in a tilted head and a Scooby-Doo noise.

One should never underestimate the power of bathroom humor to get a point across.

Never thought of calling it the "crotch"....too funny!

[TehLlama]

I'd consider moving away from using the BDC for holds at closer distances, and instead memorize approximate come-ups for the red part of the reticle: I'm assuming that at closer ranges speed might be a priority, and I have MUCH better luck with this: it ranges from about .5" to 1.5" offset from my POA to POI (using either the crotch or the top of the red post, depending) from 10-25yd, with a little variation, and within 10yd I'm aiming nearly a full 2" above where I want to hit.

At the closer ranges, assuming you're not having any sort of difficulty with using both eyes through a fixed 4X optic (most do), the changes between using a fixed reference for the POI shift, vice trying to keep track of what angular change should be made just started to get complicated, so I just pick an amount on the target, guesstimate it and aim up that far.

Our Table 3 shoot, which is just drill and kill on reticle holdover once the other marksmanship basics are locked on, still throws a ton of people off. Why some can't figure out that the POI is going to be different from 36m and 6m is a mystery to me, but once I explain to them to just aim at a new location a memorized distance up, they can actually put the head shots into the T box.

[billybob19606]

Im new to this forum and new to "black rifles" in general. Have a DD M4 V3 for about month now. Just put an Eotech517 on it. I THINK I have it where I need to be but have a question.

My 6-8" groups @205 yards (my range's limit) seem to be zero'd, then at 100yd it's a lil high (less than 1" i'd say). It's about .5" low at 50yd, and 2.5 low at 25yd.

Inside of 25yards, will it be that much lower than the 2.5" low like it is at the 50yd line like the OP's results??? inside 10yd, could it really end up shootin 6+'' low?!

I didnt think of shooting any closer than 25yds (stupid me).

Thanks for your time/input. I love this site and reading everyone's advice.

[JSantoro]

Sight height of that type of optic is 2.755" over bore, and it's physically impossible for your round to be more than that distance below your line of sight through the optic....unless something has gone horrifically wrong with either the optic itself or how it's mounted.

[xbmxracerx]

I'd consider moving away from using the BDC for holds at closer distances, and instead memorize approximate come-ups for the red part of the reticle: I'm assuming that at closer ranges speed might be a priority, and I have MUCH better luck with this: it ranges from about .5" to 1.5" offset from my POA to POI (using either the crotch or the top of the red post, depending) from 10-25yd, with a little variation, and within 10yd I'm aiming nearly a full 2" above where I want to hit.

At the closer ranges, assuming you're not having any sort of difficulty with using both eyes through a fixed 4X optic (most do), the changes between using a fixed reference for the POI shift, vice trying to keep track of what angular change should be made just started to get complicated, so I just pick an amount on the target, guesstimate it and aim up that far.

Our Table 3 shoot, which is just drill and kill on reticle holdover once the other marksmanship basics are locked on, still throws a ton of people off. Why some can't figure out that the POI is going to be different from 36m and 6m is a mystery to me, but once I explain to them to just aim at a new location a memorized distance up, they can actually put the head shots into the T box.

I hear ya......this was mainly just a verification exercise until I get my SBR......I will have an Aimpoint T-1 on that. I would much rather utilize the ACOG for the longer distances but had so time while out in MI at the indoor range and had the ACOG chart and just documented notes......the guys in the lane next to me were like damn! I've got it down to a quick aquisition to be on target though.....@25 I'm right at the 300m post and as I approach....well, u know the rest.....

Here is a vid of me shooting an 8" steel plate at 230+y (all I've found out here in PA for now) Want to shoot farther......

http://www.youtube.com/user/emufreak1?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/rLkMPFYoCZE

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/th_230yon8inchsteel.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/?action=view&current=230yon8inchsteel.mp4)

....also lined up some sporting clays to shoot as well.......
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/photo-1.jpg

View from the bench.....
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/296793_2305626316125_1113293683_2781901_2071919_n.jpg

[xbmxracerx]

Im new to this forum and new to "black rifles" in general. Have a DD M4 V3 for about month now. Just put an Eotech517 on it. I THINK I have it where I need to be but have a question.

My 6-8" groups @205 yards (my range's limit) seem to be zero'd, then at 100yd it's a lil high (less than 1" i'd say). It's about .5" low at 50yd, and 2.5 low at 25yd.

Inside of 25yards, will it be that much lower than the 2.5" low like it is at the 50yd line like the OP's results??? inside 10yd, could it really end up shootin 6+'' low?!

I didnt think of shooting any closer than 25yds (stupid me).

Thanks for your time/input. I love this site and reading everyone's advice.

Just like JSantoro said, sight over bore is the thing to remember.....the closer the target is, the higher you have to aim. One of the things I do from closer distances to show people is while at the 7 or 10 yard line, aim center mass with a T-1(Aimpoint) or Eotech non magnified optic. The shots were low based on POA(point of aim) so I then adjust accordingly and aim higher on the next group and the shots were in the zone selected.

Updated 2014

Shot at the left target in the picture with the poa being the center dot starting from 5y out to 25y (5 total shots) and marking the impact at each distance and then applying those interpolated holds to the right target in the picture (1 shot at each distance) .....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/6F78522F-4D9C-40EF-B30D-5999A576B80E_zpsnlh8zexn.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/emufreak1/media/6F78522F-4D9C-40EF-B30D-5999A576B80E_zpsnlh8zexn.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/ECD437F7-CD10-4CD6-A1CB-52642D8B8C4A_zpssxe89dbb.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/emufreak1/media/ECD437F7-CD10-4CD6-A1CB-52642D8B8C4A_zpssxe89dbb.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/A48B1235-B3FA-41A3-B5CF-F270118C621A_zpspflva1jk.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/emufreak1/media/A48B1235-B3FA-41A3-B5CF-F270118C621A_zpspflva1jk.jpg.html)

Little chilly out that morning :)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/F521E098-5136-4C0A-A06A-27B3AFA60EC6_zpskboqjidf.png (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/emufreak1/media/F521E098-5136-4C0A-A06A-27B3AFA60EC6_zpskboqjidf.png.html)

[billybob19606]

Thank you guys VERY much for your insight. IT really helps. I love this forum! Im learning a decent amount.

[Cerberus]

@ 25m or under you shouldn't HAVE to utilize the ACOG. In fact I always found it took far longer, for no improvement in accuracy than simply aiming down the barrel.

[Skang]

Thank you for sharing very useful information!

I assuming it would also work for horse shoes and triangle?

[Belmont31R]

No high speed guy here but all my training from high speed guys said with CQB with an optic you want to aim (shoot) for high COM in CQB situations.




Its also really dumb to zero for CQB because anything past CQB will be wildly off. So if you zero for either 50 or 100 and shooting near point blank with an optic do high COM near the throat center line. Of course at inside the room distances spot shooting should be enough (no sights).



If to practice spot shooting you can get good at it. I shot ATA trap for 4 years, and can do it really well. Basically just focus on the target and shoot without any use of sights. Inside the room distance or even down a hallway should not require sights for COM hits.

[xbmxracerx]

No high speed guy here but all my training from high speed guys said with CQB with an optic you want to aim (shoot) for high COM in CQB situations.




Its also really dumb to zero for CQB because anything past CQB will be wildly off. So if you zero for either 50 or 100 and shooting near point blank with an optic do high COM near the throat center line. Of course at inside the room distances spot shooting should be enough (no sights).



If to practice spot shooting you can get good at it. I shot ATA trap for 4 years, and can do it really well. Basically just focus on the target and shoot without any use of sights. Inside the room distance or even down a hallway should not require sights for COM hits.

It was more so for reference and time killing (weather out here does not always allow LR outdoor shooting) but thanks for the info...Class 3 paperwork has begun at my local shop and T-1 on order and DDMK18 SBR forthcoming when I return home.......

Oh and Belmont, no adjustments were made to the optic for these ranges (as noted above in an earlier post). Once I zero'ed at 100, I left it alone. These were "holdover" references......sight over bore adjustments, nothing more, nothing less....