Mating .223/5.56mm defensive ammo to cheap FMJ for same POI training?

[Charging Handle]

I thought I would start this discussion since I'm in the process of standardizing my .223 carbine defensive ammo. Obviously I'm not the first person who has considered the issue of trying to find an inexpensive training round that matches the trajectory and POI of my defensive load as closely as possible at various distances. I understand that from 0-100 yards, most ammo from 55-75 grain will be close enough to remain useful. But if I could find a combination that will keep me in the kill zone of a standard silhouette type target out to 200 or 300 yards, that would be terrific.

Certainly, most of my training takes place at distances of 100 yards or less. But I also train to take longer shots and keep my skills sharp in that area. As a civilian, it is unlikely that I'll need to take a defensive shot at such distances, but I'd prefer having the capability, since it may be the bad guy who makes the decision about what distance an engagement takes place, not me. Besides, it seems the whole point of having a carbine/rifle is to give you a platform capable of good accuracy and performance beyond 100 yards, otherwise we'd all just use a 12 gauge with buckshot and slugs.

So, with my stated goals in mind, I'd like to find a good quality defensive load high on DocGKR's approved list as my primary defensive ammunition, and a cheap, widely available FMJ round that matches the ballistics of the defensive load as closely as possible from 0-300 yards that won't require re-zeroing when switching between the two. I am hoping someone here has already contemplated this issue and found a solution they can share with me.

Some of the possible combos I'm looking at include:

Option A
Defensive Load: Federal/Black Hills/Barnes .223 55 gr TSX
Training Load: Federal/Fiocchi/UMC/PMC/Wolf .223 55 gr FMJ

Option B
Defensive Load: Federal Tactical/Federal Fusion .223 62 gr JSP
Training Load: Prvi Partizan/Winchester USA/Wolf .223 62 gr FMJ

Option C
Defensive Load: Speer 5.56mm 55 gr Gold Dot
Training Load: Federal/Winchester/Prvi/PMC/IMI 55 gr M193 FMJ

Option D
Defensive Load: Federal Mk318 5.56mm 62 gr SOST
Training Load: Federal/Winchester/Prvi/PMC/IMI 62 gr M855

Option E
Defensive Load: Hornady .223 75 gr OTM TAP
Training Load: Hornady .223 75 gr OTM Steel Case practice ammo

It appears those are the options to give me the best chance of finding what I'm looking for, although enough variances still exist between some of them to perhaps make some less ideal than others.

Also, the load I would otherwise most favor for defensive use (Black Hills 5.56mm 50 gr TSX #D556N1) seems the least likely of the approved defensive loads to have a similar performing, inexpensive, training counterpart. Maybe M193 would suffice? Perhaps the Federal 50 gr value pack JHP? I dunno. One is heavier. The other is .223 spec and has considerably less velocity.

Again, I figure this is an issue many people have contemplated before. So feel free to offer suggestions based on your experiences. Also, FWIW, I am leaning more toward a barrier blind load. While such a load may not be as critical for civilian self defense as for law enforcement duties, one also can't rule out such a need. Even without auto bodies and windshields to contend with, things such as interior doors, pieces of furniture, windows or even the bones within an arm that may be in front of the torso of your attacker could make a barrier blind load a much better choice. It simply works effectively in more situations.

Thanks in advance for suggestions and discussion. I apologize for being a bit overly detailed in my post, but there was quite a bit of ground to cover. Perhaps this post can eventually become the definitive discussion on .223/5.56mm defensive/training loads with similar POI once the wealth of knowledge on this forum has weighed in.

[DocGKR]

I think you might be over thinking this...

For practice, folks here generally shoot 55 gr FMJ in both .223 and 5.56 mm pressures depending on what is available.

Currently, duty ammo is typically .223 62 gr TBBC, .223 64 gr Gold Dot, .223 or 5.56 mm 75 gr TAP.

At 100 yards there is minimal difference. Even out to 300 yds, POI differences are only in the neighborhood of 3".

Unless you are shooting Hi-Power out to 600, I would not be too concerned...

[Charging Handle]

Three inch POI differences at 300 yards would be quite acceptable for my purposes. So maybe I should put the Black Hills 5.56mm version of the 50 gr TSX back atop my list? I could then use the ample stash of Winchester Q3131A I put away in the 2001-2002 timeframe when it was readily available at $175 per 1000 for practice. If 55 gr FMJ works well enough as to not be off more than 3" or so out to 300 yards when using a 75 gr TAP zero, surely the minimal 5 grain difference between two 5.56mm spec loads should not pose an issue.

Thanks Doc. And yes, your observation about me over thinking this issue is probably correct. I have a tendency to do that anytime I'm given options when it comes to gun related items....holsters, scopes, slings, chest rigs, ammo, etc.

[tpd223]

Doc is correct.

Also, let's say you did want exact POA=POI, there is no book answer, you would have to actually shoot the rounds to see which hits where you want it to off of your chosen "duty" load, you'd be surprised how close different weights can be, or not, until you try.

An example would be that my Savage .308 deer rifle throws near MOA groups from various 150gr SP deer hunting type ammo, but Winchester, Federal and Remington all hit up to 4"-5" difference in POI due to manufacturing variations of these 150gr SP loads, so I picked one and made sure I stuck with that load.

[bp7178]

Glad i'm not the only one over thinking this. ;)

Based on Doc's posts, and what I can actually find for sale, I like the BH 5.56mm 50gr TSX round for serious use. In any kind of a probable situation, use would be well within 100 yards.

We recently had a bank robbery, which turned into a vehicle pursuit, and a shootout at the end of the pursuit. Of course it took place around the vehicles. Made me take a look at barrier blind loads.

I can order 5.56 TAP T2 through work, and its MUCH cheaper than the BH load, and given the options for practice loads, this was what I had previously been looking at.

I also want to continue to work on my long(er) range skills, so my logic had been T2 for duty, match or practice for plinking and target shooting.

After reading the duty ammo thread, I like the the idea of using a barrier blind load, but I was concerened with POI shift between the two; going from 50gr TSX to 75gr T2.


So maybe I should put the Black Hills 5.56mm version of the 50 gr TSX back atop my list?

If the 50gr is your thing, I can't imagine the 5.56mm FMJ 55gr loads are too far off. FMJ rounds are generally not very accurate, by match ammo standards anyway. Inside of 50 yards I don't see it being a huge deal.

I have it on good authority the .223 BH 50gr VMAX (Blue box) is a laser beam inside of 100 yards if you are into making mouse holes on your target. But, for plinking they run about $35 per 50 rounds. Which by BH standards is pretty reasonable.

The only issue I have in using a duty round which is incredibly expensive, as the BH 50gr TSX is, is that practicing with it would be very limited. I've never been a fan of having a duty round which never gets shot. I feel its important to actually use the ammo, both to verify its function, POA/POI, and accuracy in the host firearm. This is one of the reasons I keep going back to the T2.