View Full Version : Effective ammo to always have on hand in bulk?
MeanStreaker
09-09-11, 16:53
Hi everyone. I tried a few search criteria and didn't find what I'm looking for.
My question: What effective 5.56 ammo would you always have on hand in bulk?
-- I have a couple hundred rounds of quality personal defense ammo (like TAP 75gr), but I can't afford to purchase 4-5 thousand rounds of that right now.
-- I also keep a couple thousand rounds of cheap Wolf or Tula around and replenish for my training ammo as it shoots well out of my rifles.
But I need something more in the middle just in case there's a rainy day or something. What quality, effective ammo do you stack deep for that purpose? I was going to buy a bunch of Privi M193 as I thought it would fill that role nicely. Then I saw the sticky in this forum section questioning its effectiveness and am rethinking that.
Thanks.
IMI M193 comes to mind, and around $340 shipped for 1200 rounds.
snackgunner
09-09-11, 17:13
Go back a couple of pages and search some more in this forum and youll find what your looking for.
This is a good thread
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=87877
NoveskeFan
09-09-11, 17:19
I have IMI and Federal M855 and a ton of Lake City XM193.
MeanStreaker
09-09-11, 18:32
How does IMI and Privi Partisan compare with their M193?
There are some 62 gr - 69 gr HP and SP loads from Wolf, Brown Bear and Tula in the $6.00 - $6.50/20 range. You can get the bonded SP Federal XM223SP1 for $10/20. Have to read through previous posts to see how thos compare but I would think a 62 gr SP would be better then 55 gr or 62 gr FMJ while still be a lot cheaper than most ammo that is better performance. Kind of a balance between cheap enough to buy in bulk but still better then FMJ.
Nothing wrong with M855 or M193 for your uses.
Hornady steel cased 75gr TAP will "probably" be a better choice over XM193 or M855. Plus, it tends to run a little cheaper than the military brass loads.
The M193 are more well known quantities, the IMI, Fed, PPU, and LC offerings are pretty common and that helps resale a lot if that becomes relevant to you.
When places like Wideners has IMI 193 for the price listed above, that's hard to beat. I only picked up 5 cases...
You just need reliable ammo. If you are digging into the 4k in your basement you are in a VERY bad place and the type of ammo is probably not going to change your chance of getting out alive.
There are some 62 gr - 69 gr HP and SP loads from Wolf, Brown Bear and Tula...
I don't think you can expect bi-metal jacketed (steel jacket, copper washed) HP or SP to open up like copper jacketed bullets.
Doc notes that "most of the “cheap” Russian JHP/JSP ammunition offers poor terminal performance.", in the Russian caliber sticky.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885
I have two thousand rounds of Winchester Ranger(RA556M855K)62 gr green tip on hand if the need should ever arise...In my estimation it's the very best green tip to bear the nato stamp...
Shawn Dodson
09-23-11, 12:31
I don't think you can expect bi-metal jacketed (steel jacket, copper washed) HP or SP to open up like copper jacketed bullets.
I've often wondered how how well it performs against automotive windshield glass and sheet metal. Not looking for anything that "expands" but for something that simply remains intact after passing through and capable of achieving adequate penetration afterward.
I beleive this capability is important for what I've come to refer to as an "Emergency Preparedness Rifle" intended for general-purpose defense use during a breakdown in law and order.
It would be great if inexpensive "bi-metal" Russian ammo could fill this niche as a complement to M193, which itself is inexpensive.
PA PATRIOT
09-23-11, 18:39
I would surmise that even the least expensive .223 loads like Wolf could suffice for general-purpose defense use during a breakdown in law and order.
If it goes bang and cycles your rifle 100% thats half the battle, if the bullet can penetrate auto glass and door metal and defeat light cover and still poke a hole deep enough to cause some damage all the better.
I had the opportunity to shoot a few abandon farm vehicles (Early 60's era) and the Wolf 55gr H/P's and FMJ used punched through the door panels into the cab without issue. Nothing scintific about shooting up some old 60's era vehicles but I would suggest the body metal used in those days were much heavier then whats used today.
Russian Steel cased ammo may not be the best when compared to other loadings but is it better to have 33 loaded magazines if a SHTF event is coming then only being able to load a few magazines of the good stuff due to price.
If it goes bang and cycles your rifle 100% thats half the battle
Exactly right on the goes bang and cycles 100%. But I have seen too many times where Wolf or other Eastern European Steel cased ammo did not function close to 100% and led to some nasty malfunctions like stuck cases in Western guns. The last thing you need in a SHTF situation is to have to get a cleaning rod and pound a case out of a barrel.
I've found IMI M855 to be the best M855 available, even as compared to US MIL issue. The last 1200 round case I went through (LOT # 00235/K) had no deformed rounds. I would have expected to find a good number of unusable rounds in the same amount of LC. IMI M855 averages 2.5'' CTC 100M groups out of my 16'' 6920 and 2'' CTC out of my BCM SS410 (5 round groups). This is exceptional for M855. These rounds are my go to for training and bulk storage. Obviously, I prefer 77gr SMK's / 75gr HPBT loads and use them regularly, but I'm not rich enough to stockpile these.
PA PATRIOT
09-24-11, 19:50
Exactly right on the goes bang and cycles 100%. But I have seen too many times where Wolf or other Eastern European Steel cased ammo did not function close to 100% and led to some nasty malfunctions like stuck cases in Western guns. The last thing you need in a SHTF situation is to have to get a cleaning rod and pound a case out of a barrel.
Thats why any ammunition used needs to be proofed in the rifle or pistol it may come into use with. I just so happen to have a few AR's that are total whores for Wolf and have never missed a beat over several cases. Anyones mileage may vary but I have had excellent function to date and while I recommend Wolf for nothing more then paper punching if push comes to shove then it can poke holes in hostiles too.
huntergatherer
09-24-11, 20:19
Thats why any ammunition used needs to be proofed in the rifle or pistol it may come into use with. I just so happen to have a few AR's that are total whores for Wolf and have never missed a beat over several cases. Anyones mileage may vary but I have had excellent function to date and while I recommend Wolf for nothing more then paper punching if push comes to shove then it can poke holes in hostiles too.
I have two Bushmaster AR's and have run literally thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo through both of them without a hiccup. I still use it for training and plinking. Got about 9000 rounds of it left at the moment, and will probably buy more when that gets low. And if I ever get down to that being all I have left, I will be too busy being incredulous at the fact that I am still alive to be worried about the fact that I am using Wolf ammo for defense.
PA PATRIOT
09-24-11, 23:33
I have two Bushmaster AR's and have run literally thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo through both of them without a hiccup. I still use it for training and plinking. Got about 9000 rounds of it left at the moment, and will probably buy more when that gets low. And if I ever get down to that being all I have left, I will be too busy being incredulous at the fact that I am still alive to be worried about the fact that I am using Wolf ammo for defense.
My Whore AR's are a Bushmaster & Colt.
There are some 62 gr - 69 gr HP and SP loads from Wolf, Brown Bear and Tula in the $6.00 - $6.50/20 range. You can get the bonded SP Federal XM223SP1 for $10/20. Have to read through previous posts to see how thos compare but I would think a 62 gr SP would be better then 55 gr or 62 gr FMJ while still be a lot cheaper than most ammo that is better performance. Kind of a balance between cheap enough to buy in bulk but still better then FMJ.
fwiw, I had two rounds of Wolf 62 gr. HP keyhole at 20 yards yesterday from a BCM 1/7 twist LW midlength. they impacted among the other rounds but at only 20 yards, standing rapid fire, that's not much of a feat.
this was near the end of a 500 round training class while the barrel was quite hot, and it had not been cleaned for a few hundred rounds previous to that but still I was amazed...
PA PATRIOT
09-26-11, 17:23
fwiw, I had two rounds of Wolf 62 gr. HP keyhole at 20 yards yesterday from a BCM 1/7 twist LW midlength. they impacted among the other rounds but at only 20 yards, standing rapid fire, that's not much of a feat.
this was near the end of a 500 round training class while the barrel was quite hot, and it had not been cleaned for a few hundred rounds previous to that but still I was amazed...
The rifle cycled as normal but the two rounds Key holed?
I rarely post here, but lurk. I, up until last week, used and thought wolf ammo was acceptable. I have run at least 8,000 rounds ( of wolf) through my AR's. Last week, I took out my LMT and Stag for a bit of training. Both of these guns have been used with wolf and never had a problem with wolf. I got 11 rounds off and had a case stuck in the chamber. Pounded it out and then got off one round and another stuck case. Switched to my LMT and the second round went bang and had a stuck case. Cleared it and then the next round was a stuck case. Maybe it is a bad lot of ammo, or ???. Anyway, I am done with wolf as even back up plinking ammo. I did run mags through both guns with federal and winchester ammo with no problems, hence it is not a gun issue and the chambers were not dirty. After the fed and win, I tried wolf one last time and I had the same problem.
YMMV, Cheers, SSC
PA PATRIOT
09-26-11, 20:44
I rarely post here, but lurk. I, up until last week, used and thought wolf ammo was acceptable. I have run at least 8,000 rounds ( of wolf) through my AR's. Last week, I took out my LMT and Stag for a bit of training. Both of these guns have been used with wolf and never had a problem with wolf. I got 11 rounds off and had a case stuck in the chamber. Pounded it out and then got off one round and another stuck case. Switched to my LMT and the second round went bang and had a stuck case. Cleared it and then the next round was a stuck case. Maybe it is a bad lot of ammo, or ???. Anyway, I am done with wolf as even back up plinking ammo. I did run mags through both guns with federal and winchester ammo with no problems, hence it is not a gun issue and the chambers were not dirty. After the fed and win, I tried wolf one last time and I had the same problem.
YMMV, Cheers, SSC
Sounds like a bad lot, were they Polly or lacquered coated cases and what grain bullet? Can you post a Lot # as I would like to check it against the cases I just picked up.
Thanks
elkknuckle
09-26-11, 21:38
The rifle cycled as normal but the two rounds Key holed?
I think he was trying to say one round entered the hole made by a previous one. I've heard that term many times on the rifle range (Marine Corps) even though it may not be the correct usage of the term.
Has anyone had bad experience with the Silver Bear zinc coated cases? Sounds like the lacquer or poly may work fine with some rifles and hiccup in others. But are the zinc plated ones pretty much problem free?
I've got mostly M193 and M855. Kind of thinking of getting some SB for range practice as it is a couple of buck/box cheaper than M855 now.
I think he was trying to say one round entered the hole made by a previous one. I've heard that term many times on the rifle range (Marine Corps) even though it may not be the correct usage of the term.
You're mixing up the expressions "keyhole" and "cloverleaf."
Failure2Stop
09-26-11, 21:56
I think he was trying to say one round entered the hole made by a previous one. I've heard that term many times on the rifle range (Marine Corps) even though it may not be the correct usage of the term.
No. He was saying that the round failed to stabilize and went through the target at an oblique angle.
Retards on the KD range are notorious for throwing around terms they don't understand and making the rest up. Makes me pull my effing hair out.
PPD,
It was the WPA and I believe they are poly. I may not be able to find the lot number, as I threw away the box. I will check the other boxes and see if they came from an open case. I will not be able to look for a couple of weeks as I have homes in different states and will not return for a couple of weeks.
Cheers, SSC
I'd love to stock up on Doc's recommendations, but the cost is just crazy. M885 is still the best choice considering economics and its history in several wars ain't too bad, but hopefully we will see surplus mk318 at M855 prices in our life times.
What data made you choose M855 over M193?
Lately m855 has been plentiful and relatively cheap. Combine that with the convenience of being packaged on strippers in the cardboard sleeves and it just makes sense to me.
I recently had a 20% off coupon for Cabelas who had the 420 rnd cans of 855 for $149.95 on sale. Came out to about 28 cents per round, so I bought lots.....:D
PA PATRIOT
09-27-11, 16:29
PPD,
It was the WPA and I believe they are poly. I may not be able to find the lot number, as I threw away the box. I will check the other boxes and see if they came from an open case. I will not be able to look for a couple of weeks as I have homes in different states and will not return for a couple of weeks.
Cheers, SSC
If you happen to find the lot number please post it.
I have shot so many cases of Wolf over the years both lacquered and Polly, FMJ/HP/SP and never had issues other then some extra clean up at the end of the day. Sorry to hear you had issues but I would not condemn and entire brand just over a few stuck cases especially after 8000 previous good rounds of Wolf fired.
Was your problems from a single 20rd box of Wolf or from multiple boxes from the same source? Also was the box(s) from a case or purchased separately?
Sorry for so many questions but I shoot so much Wolf I try to see were possible issues lay with other shooters and avoid those lots if the claims are wide spread.
PPD,
It was from more than one 20 round box. I believe it came from the same case. I will check and update as info is available. I too have shot many rounds of wolf over the years from other AR's, AK's and pistols without a problem. I have also listened to many others speak about their experience with wolf--via forums, emails, in person etc and seen many rounds go down range with only a few problems. I have also heard of some negative reviews and problems, but would say they are in the minority. None the less, after my experience, I now have a confidence problem with wolf--though it may just be a minor QC issue that could happen to anyone. Therefore, since other quality ammo is available at reasonable prices, I will purchase something other than wolf.
Cheers, SSC
What data made you choose M855 over M193?
Curious about that myself. Is it due to M855 being NATO approved? I was under the impression the M193 worked just as well or better when using it out of an SBR or at closer distances, less than 100 yards.
I rarely post here, but lurk. I, up until last week, used and thought wolf ammo was acceptable. I have run at least 8,000 rounds ( of wolf) through my AR's. Last week, I took out my LMT and Stag for a bit of training. Both of these guns have been used with wolf and never had a problem with wolf. I got 11 rounds off and had a case stuck in the chamber. Pounded it out and then got off one round and another stuck case. Switched to my LMT and the second round went bang and had a stuck case. Cleared it and then the next round was a stuck case. Maybe it is a bad lot of ammo, or ???. Anyway, I am done with wolf as even back up plinking ammo. I did run mags through both guns with federal and winchester ammo with no problems, hence it is not a gun issue and the chambers were not dirty. After the fed and win, I tried wolf one last time and I had the same problem.
YMMV, Cheers, SSC
I had the same issue with my LMT after a couple thousand rounds. I put in a new extractor spring and all is well again.
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