View Full Version : Need some ammo for break in
RiddlerLS1
09-16-11, 08:20
Im just finishing up ordering the parts for my first build...
BCM 14.5 midlength upper with troy trx 11" handguard
BCM bolt carrier group
BCMgunfighter Mod 4
troy front and rear sights
and i will be ordering a BCM lower with vltor modstock today
its gonna be a little pricey build but i want to know its been done right for my first build and i always read awesome things about bravo company
So i need some suggestions on an awesome deal for some good ammo to break this thing in with. Will probably only have the money to buy around 500rnds at first but that all depends on $$$.
Also has anything changed with Wolfe ammo over the past few years?
thanks guys
Weidner's shooting and reloading supply has IMI 193 ammo for $318.00 for 1200 rounds or you can buy it for like 10.00 per box of 30. You can't get any closer to true M193 5.56 ammo than that. I just bought 300 rounds for 111.50 shipped to my door to see how it works in my rifles. If it works well, I will buy that by the case. At that price, it is hard to beat.
m1a_scoutguy
09-16-11, 10:38
That is a great deal on quality ammo from Widener reloading supply !! Give some a try,,,but if $$$$ is short,,try some Wolf from AIM Surplus,,,the rifle your decribing sounds like it should be OK,,I shoot tons of Wolf and it works great out of my rifles. Your rilfe sounds likes its gonna be great,,keep us posted !! :D
Aside from getting a zero with my "go to" ammo, and test firing new lots I get I shoot probably 90% Wolf.
If all I am doing is poking holes in paper- I don't see the point in spending $.30 per round on ammo, when $.20 per round does the exact same thing.
Just run the rifle wet (as you should with any ammo), and scrub the chamber out when you're done for the day. If you plan on a round count exceeding 300-400 rounds you might bring along a cleaning rod to knock out a potential stuck case.
I bought BVAC ammo from Cheaper than Dirt. I ordered a 500 round box. It shipped fast. I cant remember what I paid, but it was pretty cheap. The ammo is almost gone, but I have had no issues. It is clean and reliable.
Thomas M-4
09-16-11, 20:00
I don't break in a new rifle with shit underpowered ammo.
If you have a short-stroke how are you going to know if it is the ammo or the rifle?
The previously suggested IMI 193 would be very nice to break in a rifle.
I will echo what Thomas M-4 stated. Do not use shitty ass Wolf ammunition, especially in a new build. Use good quality ammunition like the IMI M193 or SS109 clone.
saddlerocker
09-16-11, 21:30
Cabelas.
50 cent shipping for their anniversary. (Use promo code "50YEARS")
Federal AE223 $5.29/box
Comes to about $0.28/rd shipped. (same as a case of IMI from wideners, but you dont have to buy 1200 rounds)
Buy the IMI from Wideners if you can afford it, if not this is the best deal around.
Also I was under the impression that a 14.5" mid-length may have problems cycling very underpowered (Russian) ammo with an H buffer or heavier.
Just something to think about if you do want to shoot russian ammo alot in the future, you might want to get a carbine buffer
Bobert0989
09-17-11, 04:24
Also I was under the impression that a 14.5" mid-length may have problems cycling very underpowered (Russian) ammo with an H buffer or heavier.
Just something to think about if you do want to shoot russian ammo alot in the future, you might want to get a carbine buffer
This is very true in my case. I run a 14.5 mid-length BCM upper w/ permanent FSC556 brake on a Smith lower with an H buffer, and it WILL NOT cycle that cheap TulAmmo (I gave like, $135ish for 500 rounds of it) crap from Cheaperthandirt.com for anything. It runs Wolf perfectly fine, but I'd definately stay away from that Tul crap, especially with that setup you just bought. I've personally got some Federal PowerShok .223 I just purchased from another member here, I'll split my cost on it with you (minimum 500 rounds) if you're willing to pay the shipping. My cost came down to $0.33/round, way less than half the market price on it. Stuff runs $18/box anywhere you find it for sale! And My BCM bulid loves this stuff, it's good ammo.
But yeah, stay away from the "too good to be true" pricing on Cheaperthandirt, the Tul looks like Wolf's "seconds". Same exact casings and everything. I even had one "dud" in my first two boxes, which didn't go boom on cue... I haven't shot any more of it.
RiddlerLS1
09-17-11, 05:30
Cabelas.
50 cent shipping for their anniversary. (Use promo code "50YEARS")
Federal AE223 $5.29/box
Comes to about $0.28/rd shipped. (same as a case of IMI from wideners, but you dont have to buy 1200 rounds)
Buy the IMI from Wideners if you can afford it, if not this is the best deal around.
Also I was under the impression that a 14.5" mid-length may have problems cycling very underpowered (Russian) ammo with an H buffer or heavier.
Just something to think about if you do want to shoot russian ammo alot in the future, you might want to get a carbine buffer
i was actually just going to order some of the Federal from Cabelas, should that be quality enough ammo for my build to run? When i have more funds i will buy some IMI, but cant today.
RiddlerLS1
09-17-11, 06:10
went ahead and ordered 500rds from cabelas of the Federal American Eagle. Hope its pretty good ammo. I would like to start reloading at some point so ill be saving the brass, but it'll be a while before i can afford the equipment. Mailed off my form to bravo company yesterday for my lower, hopefully ill get it all pieced together in the next couple weeks. My upper and other parts will be here mid next week, but no clue on the lower...
RogerinTPA
09-17-11, 06:11
Cabelas.
50 cent shipping for their anniversary. (Use promo code "50YEARS")
Federal AE223 $5.29/box
Comes to about $0.28/rd shipped. (same as a case of IMI from wideners, but you dont have to buy 1200 rounds)
Buy the IMI from Wideners if you can afford it, if not this is the best deal around.
Agreed.
Also I was under the impression that a 14.5" mid-length may have problems cycling very underpowered (Russian) ammo with an H buffer or heavier.
Just something to think about if you do want to shoot russian ammo alot in the future, you might want to get a carbine buffer
Is that impression yours, that you've personally observed or is it what you heard or read? One of my ARs is a 14.5 light weight middy with an H buffer from Daniel Defense. It works very well with Wolf and Barnal/Brown Bear with 2K+ rounds fired so far, with no cycling issues.
To the OP: I strongly suspect there is some QC issues with Wolf within the last year or so. I bought a case and started having a lot of stuck case issues. I compared it with Wolf purchased a year prior, and the issues went away. I shot up this new batch and continue to shoot the older stuff, since l have a few K rounds of the previously bought ammo. I have not shot the WPA Wolf brand. IMHO, Barnaul or Brown Bear ammo, is the best consistently performing ammo out of all the Russian ammo. I stock up on it when ever it is available. I have not experienced any issues with it, to include running it in a carbine class.
NONE of my rifles work with Tula ammo. A friend of mine bought a case of it and his patrol rifle wouldn't cycle it. I tried it in all of my rifles and it wouldn't cycle. The only rifle it cycled in was a cheap Bushmaster that my friend had. I would be safe to assume that if you have a mil-spec gas port on your barrel, Tula will not work.
Why buy Fed AE .223 for $.28 when Wideners IMI M193 5.56 is the same price delivered?
RiddlerLS1
09-17-11, 09:31
Why buy Fed AE .223 for $.28 when Wideners IMI M193 5.56 is the same price delivered?
bc dont have the $$$ to buy 1200 rounds right now
also cabelas has 50cent shipping right now so it is like $.26 so it is quite a bit cheaper. If i had an extra $200 right now, i would certainly buy the IMI
bc dont have the $$$ to buy 1200 rounds right now
also cabelas has 50cent shipping right now so it is like $.26 so it is quite a bit cheaper. If i had an extra $200 right now, i would certainly buy the IMI
I got 30 round boxes of IMI from Weidner's for $10 a box. They did not have the cases in stock at the time. It's just me but I would break in a 5.56 rifle with 5.56 pressure ammo.
saddlerocker
09-17-11, 14:19
It doesnt matter at all to "break in" an upper with 5.56
And $10 a box plus shipping for IMI makes it not a deal at all.
5.56 ammo means absolutely nothing, its a bit more pressure and velocity
Any commercial .223 will be fine. Buy the cheapest brass ammo you can find, 5.56 or .223. Its all good and will run fine. Commercial .223 is close to 5.56 pressure, but there is a big drop when going to Russian ammo in my experiance
And for Russian ammo I agree that Brown Bear is the best, or the WPA Military Classic (Now made at Barnaul)
And no i dont have personal experience with a 14.5" mid with Russian ammo. I tried to make it clear that I was not stating a fact, but relaying information I had gathered.
I simply gave him a heads up about an issue that I have read about, and could easily believe due to my experience with a BCM 16" mid-length.
The argument that your gun works fine is the same as people saying DPMS is good as a colt because their gun has run flawlessly through 2k rounds.
Oh, and this from BCMs Website
"These 14.5" mid length gas barreled upper receiver groups have been specifically tuned to be a very soft and fast shooting set up. They are a joy to shoot, but please feed it good ammo. With good milspec pressured ammo we have been running H buffers. We do not recommend using lower powered ammo. If using less than milspec pressured ammo, it may be best to run a standard carbine buffer."
RogerinTPA
09-17-11, 16:25
It doesnt matter at all to "break in" an upper with 5.56
And $10 a box plus shipping for IMI makes it not a deal at all.
5.56 ammo means absolutely nothing, its a bit more pressure and velocity
Any commercial .223 will be fine. Buy the cheapest brass ammo you can find, 5.56 or .223. Its all good and will run fine. Commercial .223 is close to 5.56 pressure, but there is a big drop when going to Russian ammo in my experiance
And for Russian ammo I agree that Brown Bear is the best, or the WPA Military Classic (Now made at Barnaul)
And no i dont have personal experience with a 14.5" mid with Russian ammo. I tried to make it clear that I was not stating a fact, but relaying information I had gathered.
I simply gave him a heads up about an issue that I have read about, and could easily believe due to my experience with a BCM 16" mid-length.
The argument that your gun works fine is the same as people saying DPMS is good as a colt because their gun has run flawlessly through 2k rounds.
Oh, and this from BCMs Website
"These 14.5" mid length gas barreled upper receiver groups have been specifically tuned to be a very soft and fast shooting set up. They are a joy to shoot, but please feed it good ammo. With good milspec pressured ammo we have been running H buffers. We do not recommend using lower powered ammo. If using less than milspec pressured ammo, it may be best to run a standard carbine buffer."
Eh...not quite. Another uninformed opinion, which does not apply in my case.
That 2K rounds were put on it in less that 2 months. FYI, I also own a 16 inch middy (Sabre Upper on a Colt Sporter lower) and 2 x 6920s. All have been broken in with Wolf and or Barnaul. All 4 have ran pretty reliable, with a few hiccups due to bad mags, extractor or ammo. The same can be said for any other weapon/brass ammo combination. Since it is nothing but training fodder, don't get your panties in a bunch. Since joining M4C, I have fired 30,000+ rounds of those two PLUS brass ammo, and used them in carbine courses exclusively.
My advice is to try it with what ever weapon you use it in and vet it, the ammo and your weapon.
A rifle that is marketed as being ".223/5.56" is, as far as I'm concerned, defective if it doesn't shoot SAAMI spec .223Rem., which Wolf is.
To me where I don't reload .223Rem, and do most of my shooting in tall grass, the brass is not a benefit. Paying 40%+ extra just to poke holes in paper is ridiculous. If you reload, I would definitely see it differently since the brass would be useful.
Does that apply to AR's that claim to be 5.56 but really have .223 chambers?
A rifle that is marketed as being ".223/5.56" is, as far as I'm concerned, defective if it doesn't shoot SAAMI spec .223Rem., which Wolf is.
To me where I don't reload .223Rem, and do most of my shooting in tall grass, the brass is not a benefit. Paying 40%+ extra just to poke holes in paper is ridiculous. If you reload, I would definitely see it differently since the brass would be useful.
Failure2Stop
09-17-11, 23:09
A rifle that is marketed as being ".223/5.56" is, as far as I'm concerned, defective if it doesn't shoot SAAMI spec .223Rem., which Wolf is.
Eh, yes and no.
Most should shoot both just fine, if you are talking about direct from the manufacturer items.
There are some that are finicky, especially 10.5" CAR gas and 14.5" middies when it comes to SAAMI spec ammo, especially if it is well under spec and dirty.
When it comes to more advanced setups, especially those that are put together with minimizing felt/seen recoil, many of them will be tuned for function and performance with specific ammo. I know of many a multigun AR that will work great with whatever load they prefer, but if a serious deviation is made the gun will stutter.
Conceptually I agree. I don't want an AR that will only function reliably with Mk262 Mod 1. I want to shoot my preferred pills as well as the bargain basement ammo I grab for high-density work. Ammo selection is always a task worth paying attention to; that bag o bullets you got from the smelly guy behind Dollar General for 15 cents a round might not be the key to ensuring sound function.
Eh, yes and no.
Most should shoot both just fine, if you are talking about direct from the manufacturer items.
There are some that are finicky, especially 10.5" CAR gas and 14.5" middies when it comes to SAAMI spec ammo, especially if it is well under spec and dirty.
When it comes to more advanced setups, especially those that are put together with minimizing felt/seen recoil, many of them will be tuned for function and performance with specific ammo. I know of many a multigun AR that will work great with whatever load they prefer, but if a serious deviation is made the gun will stutter.
Conceptually I agree. I don't want an AR that will only function reliably with Mk262 Mod 1. I want to shoot my preferred pills as well as the bargain basement ammo I grab for high-density work. Ammo selection is always a task worth paying attention to; that bag o bullets you got from the smelly guy behind Dollar General for 15 cents a round might not be the key to ensuring sound function.
Well, yes, there are certainly some exceptions to the rule, as you pointed out- but, for a stock rifle, shooting SAAMI spec .223Rem shouldn't be a problem. If the rifle has a problem with the ammo, I have a problem with the rifle.
And reloads don't go through my rifles- For some reason I kind of doubt the guy at the gun show that is telling me how he had a mild stroke while he was reloading the ammo he is selling is really paying close attention to what the specs are. (Yes, true story...)
And to Iraqgunz comment: Not exactly sure what you're getting at. But, since Wolf is .223Rem, it should be fine in a .223Rem rifle. If my observations hold true- you'd run into issues with stuck casings earlier due to carbon build up in the chamber. During my days on the range, RRA rifles with their Wylde chamber seemed to be a bit more picky when it came to shooting steel case.
Suwannee Tim
09-18-11, 16:29
..... I would like to start reloading at some point so ill be saving the brass.......
I think the IMI is Berdan primed, can anyone confirm that? That means non-reloadable. Also, I believe the Federal AE is not primer crimped. Can anyone confirm that? That is a good thing if you intend to reload.
saddlerocker
09-18-11, 16:44
IMI is Boxer primed and fully reloadable.
AE223 should not have a crimp, but not 100% positive on that
RiddlerLS1
09-18-11, 19:34
thanks for the input guys. I plan to purchase a 1200rnd case of IMI93, a 1200rnd case of IMI855 for starters. Then gold dot or black hills or Fed TBBC (havent decided btwn those three yet, still doing some research)
Thats what i plan to stock up on mainly and im going to try some brown bear at some point and see how my rig likes it for plinking.
IMI is great brass for reloading. It's best to uniform the primer pockets if you don't want any high primers, however (in addition to removing the crimp). I've used it for years.
My point is that you stated you wouldn't want an AR that will only shoot good ammunition. My point is that there are plenty of companies that make AR's that claim they are 5.56 and mark them as such and yet their chambers are actually .223 and shooting 5.56 in them is a bad idea.
Well, yes, there are certainly some exceptions to the rule, as you pointed out- but, for a stock rifle, shooting SAAMI spec .223Rem shouldn't be a problem. If the rifle has a problem with the ammo, I have a problem with the rifle.
And reloads don't go through my rifles- For some reason I kind of doubt the guy at the gun show that is telling me how he had a mild stroke while he was reloading the ammo he is selling is really paying close attention to what the specs are. (Yes, true story...)
And to Iraqgunz comment: Not exactly sure what you're getting at. But, since Wolf is .223Rem, it should be fine in a .223Rem rifle. If my observations hold true- you'd run into issues with stuck casings earlier due to carbon build up in the chamber. During my days on the range, RRA rifles with their Wylde chamber seemed to be a bit more picky when it came to shooting steel case.
Failure2Stop
09-19-11, 08:06
thanks for the input guys. I plan to purchase a 1200rnd case of IMI93, a 1200rnd case of IMI855 for starters. Then gold dot or black hills or Fed TBBC (havent decided btwn those three yet, still doing some research)
Really, there is no reason in the current market to get SS109 projectiles unless you get an absolutely smoking deal and don't shoot steel.
And to Iraqgunz comment: Not exactly sure what you're getting at. But, since Wolf is .223Rem, it should be fine in a .223Rem rifle. If my observations hold true- you'd run into issues with stuck casings earlier due to carbon build up in the chamber. During my days on the range, RRA rifles with their Wylde chamber seemed to be a bit more picky when it came to shooting steel case.
Wolf .223 is not the equal of Hornady .223.
Both are dimensionally very similar, but there is a hell of a lot more to it than just dimensional variation.
The big factor with guns that choke on Wolf (aside from the chamber issues) is that the ammo is UNDERPOWERED and DIRTY, and thus the gas volume and pressure that reaches the growingly carbon-caked operating parts is at the edge of consistent operation.
Remember, the functional differences between 5.56 and .223 is in the chamber cut and chamber pressure.
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