View Full Version : 6V LED or Incadescant?
toddackerman
11-11-07, 14:05
I have only had experience with 6V and 9V incandescent bulbs in various SF lights. Being from the Tech component world, I realize that there are advantages with LED technology, but don't have a reference for our applications in a Tactical mounted weapon light. I do know they last much longer.
I'm considering changing over to an LED light for Bulb/ Battery longevity concerns.
What if any experience have you all had with LED weapon lights ? Do you like them? Why or why not? Are they bright enough for indoor tactical applications? What type of battery life can you get with a C123 lithium?
Thanks in advance!
Tack
Unless you need IR for NODs, get the LED, as the visible LED does not emit the IR wavelength (hence longer battery life)
It depends I use both. Inside I prefer an LED. It has a wider softer throw, I also prefer not more than about 60 lumens inside, as anything much brighter on a white background when relfected bothers my vision and can cause reticle washout to a degree. Outside is different and I prefer incandescent. Maybe even 9v. Outside I think they have better throw. I typically go with a G2 and either a P60 or most often a P61 when outside. If really open spaces, I'll convert to 9v.
-RD62
Depends on where and how your using the light. For instance if you want something for home defense (read CQB distances), an LED will work perfectly.
If you live out in the country and want to be able to ID a target out past 50yds, then you need to stick with Incans.
C4
Something to point out as well,
White LED's are basically a blue diode with a phosphor layer to get the spectrum, so they but much more light out in the blue end of the scale, where incandescent bulbs are the opposite (hot wire resistors, lots of IR/red). Some folks don't like the spectrum of some LED lights. I've noticed that in foggy/smoky environments that LED's with more blue scatter the blue and you get a lot more scattered light.
The real nice thing about LED's is when the batteries start going, they take a lot longer to dim out. More or less a longer warning time to know when you might want to switch batteries. LED's are usually much more efficient in terms of power consumption. As LED technology improves, the color spectrum, efficiency and overall brightness will keep going up. Shoot, three or four years ago a 60 lumen LED light was impressive, we have some 200 lumen single LED lights out there now.
The LED itself is more rugged than a standard filament, but LED's also have a small pile of circuitry to keep them lit up.
Like Grant said, for big powerful lights, you still have to go with incandescent lights. For indoor use, LED's are usually more than enough.
I'm a big fan of the Malkoff and BOG CREE P60 Surefire bulb replacements.
Even though the P61 bulb may be slightly better than the Malkoff at the extreme limit of a 6 volt weaponlight, particularly in mist, rain, snow, fog, the LED is superior everywhere else and has so much more run time it's a no brainer for anything other than a dedicated sniper weapon which should be running at least a 9V incandescent anyway.
My last flashlight purchase was a 12V Surefire Turbohead for the SPR. But that was only because I have already equipped both the M92 Krink and the MRP 10.5" with Surefire Scout lights modified with Malkoff M60 170 lumen CREE LEDs.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z238/edwin907/MRPa.jpg
Patrick Aherne
11-11-07, 23:37
here's the deal: with a 6V system there is no more reason to go incandescent. The latest 6v LEDs can keep up with the incans. Plus, they don't break if dropped and have longer burn times. If you are talking a bigger light like a 9V or 12V, the incandescents have throw advantages that you can use to get farther target ID. There is no reason, IMHO, other than IR, to use 6V incandescents anymore.
I just bought a used G2 for $20 with the express intention of changing it to an LED for a mere $12.
Failure2Stop
11-12-07, 04:38
I was anti-LED as far as tactical illumination for quite some time. My experience with LEDs were less than favorable especially when in dusty/smokey/foggy environments. In these situations I experienced "wall of light" situations that made target identification very difficult or impossible at even 10 yards.
However, most of these situations were with hand-held SF LED lights, pushing around 60-65 lumens. On the advice of several others I have purchased the Gladius with Cree conversion. As explained to me by Ken Good the higher output overcomes the back-splash caused by the intermediate particles. I am looking forward to trying it out.
I love the SF M96 series for outdoor to indoor illumination. I love the ability to be outside, with stand-off, and penetrate a dark interior without having to physically occupy an interior space. I don't really mind the high output of the light inside, as the light is always pointing downward, unless engaging a threat. And this is a big reason that I really like fixed irons indoors; they never washout, regardless of the light level.
YMMV
I just got the new Surefire 6PL with their new 80 lumen (or so) LED lamp. I also purchased the Z32 bezel as well as the Z49 clickie tail cap. I've owned a bunch of nice lights in the past from Surefire and Pentagonlight and I have to say, that this thing is amazing. I have a Surefire L-5 that's my "go to" light and the new 6PL is every bit as bright and throws better.
I'm sure Grant has these by now. For the price it's tough to beat.
Edited to add pix...
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/madryan/Newlight3.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/madryan/Newlight2.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/madryan/Newlight1.jpg
toddackerman
11-13-07, 20:39
Depends on where and how your using the light. For instance if you want something for home defense (read CQB distances), an LED will work perfectly.
If you live out in the country and want to be able to ID a target out past 50yds, then you need to stick with Incans.
C4
Grant,
What is the price for conversion to an LED lamp on your 6V Scout Package light? Is it on your website? I looked but couldn;t find it.
Tack
Gene Malkoff's new M60 drop ins are rated at 200+ lumens for 2+ hours on 2 123 cells.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com
toddackerman
11-13-07, 21:49
Gene Malkoff's new M60 drop ins are rated at 200+ lumens for 2+ hours on 2 123 cells.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com
That's an option, but they're sold out.
The SF conversion for the Scout Light is not cheap. Around $129 for the new head with LED. Sheeez. I only paid $258 for the entire Incandescent Scout Light package with LaRue mount from Grant.
I think I'm staying put for awhile. I have new bulbs and spares for both of my P60 lamp style lights. An hour on each bulb will work for now.
$55 is a little steep. I thought someone said they were more like $12 for SF.?
$12 would be on the cheap end for some aftermarket LED drop in units. I was thinking the Surefire Cree LED drop in was going to be about $40.
CREE drop ins are going for $12, try deal extreme.com SKU#1447 $11.95 free shipping.
CREE drop ins are going for $12, try deal extreme.com SKU#1447 $11.95 free shipping.
I wouldn't put a cheap LED in a Scout light on my primary SBR any quicker than I would run underloaded Wolf in it.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z238/edwin907/556.jpg
I've had 3 of the e-bay CREEs, 1 went poof it's dead after about 3 minutes, another did the same after about 20 minutes, the third still works good in a 6P but I wouldn't use it as a weaponlight.
The 2 BOG and 2 Malkoff CREEs continue to work beautifully.
I wouldn't either, but for a backup G2 I'll see for $12 and if needed I may consider a more expensive model or use the original incan. I already have a G2L and it's working fine on my rifle and meets my needs as I don't carry a weapon for a living. SOS!!! Edwin please send ammo, I R your friend, Ha Ha!
toddackerman
11-14-07, 08:11
With all the controversy on the Cree "Drop Ins" for $12.00, I'll definitely wait to install the SF replacement LED head when I'm ready. They know their lights better than anyone, and what will work in them the best.
Gene Malkoff's new M60 drop ins are rated at 200+ lumens for 2+ hours on 2 123 cells.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com
That's friggin' out there!! I wish someone would make an MN10 replacement Cree for my M962. I'm currently running a MN11 bulb in it, but if I hadn't painted my 962 I'd be for selling it and getting a G2 with M60 drop-in and Z57 tail cap. I think a SI bezel would be superfluous.
I've got almost 4k rounds of .223 on a cree drop-in/6P mounted up in a VLTOR mount without issue. Well, not quite without issue...one of the 17670 cells quit but the light still runs same as ever. It's in the standard head as well as I question the need for a Z32 with an LED as the lamp. YMMV and often does.
My 962 is the only filament long gun light I have left.
toddackerman
11-14-07, 19:38
I've got almost 4k rounds of .223 on a cree drop-in/6P mounted up in a VLTOR mount without issue. Well, not quite without issue...one of the 17670 cells quit but the light still runs same as ever. It's in the standard head as well as I question the need for a Z32 with an LED as the lamp. YMMV and often does.
My 962 is the only filament long gun light I have left.
It's that issue of cells going out that concerns me. I also believe that a Z32 is cheap insurance to help avoid this. That's probably why SF puts them in their LED conversion heads.
It's that issue of cells going out that concerns me. I also believe that a Z32 is cheap insurance to help avoid this. That's probably why SF puts them in their LED conversion heads.
How does the SI bezel help prevent batteries from going bad?
toddackerman
11-15-07, 11:31
How does the SI bezel help prevent batteries from going bad?
Didn't think he was talking about the "Battery Cells". Sorry...my bad.
Well my G2 and my $12 Cree came this week and I gotta say it's seems to be $12 well spent as it's as bright or brighter than my G2L and makes the Incan. look like candle power and gives me increased run time as well as LED reliability. I still have the Incan. in case of failure and or weather issues that have been mentioned so I also got some adaptability when hunting POSSUMS or ZOMBIES at night. :D
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