Vehicular Opsec

[Eurodriver]

I have no "moto" stickers on my vehicles, and I never have. I don't wear moto shirts (or white undershirts underneath my polos ;)) It started from trying to avoid being "that guy" while near major military bases, with the tucked in shirt, digital cammie backpack, and dog tags hanging from the rear view and ended up just being a safe way to go about daily life.

My wife got a "NSDQ" sticker from a buddy (you know, the white circles with the black writing on them that everyone seem to have with myriad different sayings) and I promptly made her take it off. Stuff like that is just never a good idea.

But after my recent move to Florida I got a new license plate with "Operation Iraqi Freedom" on it.

This is about 2 months now that I've had this license plate. And I've been very careful to see how people react to it and interestingly enough most people have absolutely no clue about anything that goes on around them. Lets be clear, I am not saying that they are indifferent to what my license plate says. I am saying that while looking for any reactions to my license plate I have noticed that people don't even pay attention to their surroundings for serious threats, like cars speeding by in dark parking garages, let alone something trivial like a plate. I can't help but look around all the time everywhere I go. I thought everyone was like this. I'm not a spook, I never did anything even remotely "undercover", and I never even really dealt with the general public. I can't walk into a room for ten seconds and then close my eyes and tell you how many males, females, who's wearing what, who's sitting where, etc. But I can tell you who is out of place.

Whats worse, people who have managed to glance up from their cell phones don't even associate the license plate with me being in the military (Even though you need to show proof of service in Iraq to get the plate). People have asked me if I got it to support our troops. :confused:

My justification for getting the plate at the time was that I had this big ass DoD decal on the driverside of my windshield. I might as well get something a little different than the standard Oranges and Florida.Com plate. Even though from what I've seen most people don't even notice it, I still feel like it was a bad choice. I am considering getting a standard plate.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Do you have a huge set of jump wings on the back of your truck's window? What about a "My Man is a Marine" on your wife's car? Surely there are no Spade logos anywhere right?

I know theres at least one of you here who understands what I'm saying. Why am I divulging information without getting any in return? Or am I grossly over thinking this?

[QuietShootr]

I have no "moto" stickers on my vehicles, and I never have. I don't wear moto shirts (or white undershirts underneath my polos ;)) It started from trying to avoid being "that guy" while near major military bases, with the tucked in shirt, digital cammie backpack, and dog tags hanging from the rear view and ended up just being a safe way to go about daily life.

My wife got a "NSDQ" sticker from a buddy (you know, the white circles with the black writing on them that everyone seem to have with myriad different sayings) and I promptly made her take it off. Stuff like that is just never a good idea.

But after my recent move to Florida I got a new license plate with "Operation Iraqi Freedom" on it.

This is about 2 months now that I've had this license plate. And I've been very careful to see how people react to it and interestingly enough most people have absolutely no clue about anything that goes on around them. Lets be clear, I am not saying that they are indifferent to what my license plate says. I am saying that while looking for any reactions to my license plate I have noticed that people don't even pay attention to their surroundings for serious threats, like cars speeding by in dark parking garages, let alone something trivial like a plate. I can't help but look around all the time everywhere I go. I thought everyone was like this. I'm not a spook, I never did anything even remotely "undercover", and I never even really dealt with the general public. I can't walk into a room for ten seconds and then close my eyes and tell you how many males, females, who's wearing what, who's sitting where, etc. But I can tell you who is out of place.

Whats worse, people who have managed to glance up from their cell phones don't even associate the license plate with me being in the military (Even though you need to show proof of service in Iraq to get the plate). People have asked me if I got it to support our troops. :confused:

My justification for getting the plate at the time was that I had this big ass DoD decal on the driverside of my windshield. I might as well get something a little different than the standard Oranges and Florida.Com plate. Even though from what I've seen most people don't even notice it, I still feel like it was a bad choice. I am considering getting a standard plate.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Do you have a huge set of jump wings on the back of your truck's window? What about a "My Man is a Marine" on your wife's car? Surely there are no Spade logos anywhere right?

I know theres at least one of you here who understands what I'm saying. Why am I divulging information without getting any in return? Or am I grossly over thinking this?

I have a veteran license plate, same deal here- must show DD214 to get one. I scraped what few stickers I had off after the election (my USPA roundel, a crossed rifles branch insignia) and that's it. I don't think anyone notices it at all other than other people who have them. My belief is that grey is the way to go, but one or two little 'lodge signals' can ID you to other good guys.

[rojocorsa]

Even in California, I still see a lot of military related stuff posted on vehicles (bumper stickers, license plates, etc, DoD windshield stickers and the like).

Maybe it's just me, but I have the feeling most people don't care.


I certainly understand what you're talking about, OP, it's about maintaining the "gray". But maybe simply it isn't that big of a deal?

I've heard of vandalism due to politically related stickers and such, but never heard of vandalism due to military related stuff. And doing that would be a very low thing to do regardless on ones feelings on Iraq/Af-Pak.

[Army Chief]

I don't think the issue is a military/service/vet license plate, nearly so much as the gaudy accessorization that so many do above and beyond this. Having a combat theater plate is still a subtle, if appropriate, reminder of your service. Putting $24 worth of oversized stickers on the back window to basically replicate your 201 file is something else entirely.

Aside from the obvious OPSEC implications, I guess I'm just not into self-promotion on that scale, and I tend to move in the other direction entirely (no license plate frames, no dealer stickers, no bumper stickers, etc.) I have a DoD decal because it is, for the moment, still a requirement, but otherwise there isn't much on my car to tip you off on my background ... well, unless you count that my car is an old Jeep TJ. ;)

AC

[Belmont31R]

When I was at Ft Lewis I had my windshield bashed in. Only one with DOD stickers in the neigborhood with stickers and only car hit. Cant say it was 100% because of the stickers but kinda a leap to not think so.




Now nothing is on my car and no issues. FWIW when I also had the DOD tags I got a nice ding in my door in a parking lot. Nothing since then, either. That was also in WA.


But I generally don't think obvious gun stickers are a good idea.

[Army Chief]

Interestingly, the Navy and Air Force have already done away with the vehicle decal requirement, and several Army post have, as well. We're definitely trending in that direction as a whole, because with the 100% ID check requirement, there is really no benefit to marking the car itself. Given that most guards are now private contractors, it isn't like you're going to get a salute depending upon the color of your installation decal, either, so the whole concept has kind of out-lived its usefulness in the eyes of most.

AC

[Belmont31R]

At first I kept getting month long temp papers to avoid getting the stickers. Then they said temp papers would only be issued for 24hrs and if you're a stationed on post they would not give you temp papers. So I had to get them.



And it was stupid. The the morning PT time I5 would back up half a mile to the main gate, and all you had to do was flash your ID at the guards. Lewis also had ways to get in through trails back in the training areas. Gotta have stickers that lets everyone know the owner is military but let you flash a card in the AM and leave open trails in the back...

[jklaughrey]

...when I also had the DOD tags I got a nice ding in my door in a parking lot. Nothing since then, either. That was also in WA.


I "had" DoD stickers on my car when I was doing some "training" at Fairchild here in WA state. But I quickly got those removed after all 4 tires were slashed and my hood was scribbled on with a sharpie with the words "baby killer". I swear they must have had a flashback and thought I was a vet from '68. My own fault I suppose going to a concert in Spokane, WA with the venue catering to a bunch of Kashi eating dirty long hairs!

[GermanSynergy]

I have a Blackwater decal on my Explorer, and will replace it with an Obama '12 sticker soon to blend in with the libs here. :D

[Belmont31R]

Yeah WA has a lot of anti-mil turds. Our signal unit had to get riot training from the MP's when that trial was going on the LT who refused to deploy. Never got sent out but were on call for back up. They would protest outside the gates and at the harbors when units were sending equipment out. Some of them idiots would lay across the train tracks and shit like that. So much for "we're against the war not the troops".

[GermanSynergy]

Yeah WA has a lot of anti-mil turds. Our signal unit had to get riot training from the MP's when that trial was going on the LT who refused to deploy. Never got sent out but were on call for back up. They would protest outside the gates and at the harbors when units were sending equipment out. Some of them idiots would lay across the train tracks and shit like that. So much for "we're against the war not the troops".


I remember that. Sounds like typical Communist behavior to me.

[SteyrAUG]

I find it to be a sad commentary that any member, or former member, of this countries military would feel the need to be cautious about symbols of their "pride in service."

Every now and then I see a Purple Heart plate or a USMC window sticker and it simply makes me feel better to see the "good guys." I'd much rather see that stuff all over cars than another Obama sticker.

[rojocorsa]

I have a Blackwater decal on my Explorer, and will replace it with an Obama '12 sticker soon to blend in with the libs here. :D

Put it next to it, so both can simultaneously be seen.



Well shit, I officially take back what I said earlier since now I have heard of such vandalism. ****ing dipshits...

[GermanSynergy]

Put it next to it, so both can simultaneously be seen.



Well shit, I officially take back what I said earlier since now I have heard of such vandalism. ****ing dipshits...

LOL...

I'll replace it with a USTC sticker or something. Save the Manatees? :ph34r:

[jklaughrey]

Yeah WA has a lot of anti-mil turds. Our signal unit had to get riot training from the MP's when that trial was going on the LT who refused to deploy. Never got sent out but were on call for back up. They would protest outside the gates and at the harbors when units were sending equipment out. Some of them idiots would lay across the train tracks and shit like that. So much for "we're against the war not the troops".

**** those guys, run them over...then steal their Birkenstocks to sell on Ebay!!!:D

[Belmont31R]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/photo-2.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/CAR2-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/CAR1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/CAR4.jpg


Forgot to mention aside from the window smashing it was also egged. Not a single other car within a mile I looked was hit even being parked on the street.

[NWPilgrim]

**** those guys, run them over...then steal their Birkenstocks to sell on Ebay!!!:D

Please do. If you happen to be in Olympia when they protest at the port look for the ring leader. One of them is a commie moocher named Drew. Fell free to have an accident. "Honest officer, he stepped in front of my truck 14 times and I couldn't stop in time."

I was raised in Oly but no longer reside there. The Evergreen State College (university or whatever it is now) is a breeding ground of enviro-whacko-retro-hippie-commies-moochers and now they are working their way into city, county and State government.

Only because the city itself is run by liberals are their criminal antics against military transports not only tolerated by held up as righteous protests.

Run the shits over. Please.

[Moose-Knuckle]

OP, good thread.

I do not put any stickers on my POV, I use to have a NRA emblem on my rear view but since scraped it off as identifies me as a gun owner. When I joined my dept's FOP lodge I received several auto decals for are the cars in our house hold. I do not put those on as they identify me and or mine as LE.

I desire no unwanted attention, no sense in giving the bastards any target identifiers.

[Suwannee Tim]

My first vehicle when I was a child was a Ford van and I put an NRA sticker on it. Two weeks later it was broken into and a Ruger 22 pistol taken. The cops that investigated congratulated me for putting another handgun in criminal hands and told me to scrape the sticker off. I did. When Jimmuh Carter was running for President I put a Gerald Ford sticker on my car. Couple days later the windshield was smashed along with several others in the neighborhood (Morningside, NYC), all had Republican bumper stickers. Three or four years ago a young college student was beaten to death in Jacksonville for wearing a Georgia Bulldogs tee shirt. I was in the area and had seen the victim a few minutes before he was killed. I make myself as anonymous as possible. I even strip the company logo off issue clothing. I have been challenged for this a couple of times, my reply is "I don't want to get my ass beat or killed and the company won't let me carry a firearm." That ends the discussion.

[Eurodriver]

Guys, I was stationed in Hawaii.

Trust me, I know all about the anti-military types. At least in Seattle you aren't ID'd outside your car as well.

In Hawaii if you are a white male, you are military. Might as well rock a high and tight and your branch of service's T-Shirt because they know you're not one of them anyway.

[Boomer10]

Like most people here, I try to blend in for multiple reasons. The only "clues" I have on my vehicle is an IDPA target shaped trailer hitch cover and a LaRue bumper sticker (God bless our troops, especially our snipers). I even put the sticker onto a magnet so I can easily remove it if necessary. Like the OP said, most people are oblivious as to there surroundings, but I have had a few Marines make comments (the good kind) about the bumper sticker at red lights.

[Palmguy]

My first vehicle when I was a child was a Ford van and I put an NRA sticker on it. Two weeks later it was broken into and a Ruger 22 pistol taken. The cops that investigated congratulated me for putting another handgun in criminal hands and told me to scrape the sticker off. I did. When Jimmuh Carter was running for President I put a Gerald Ford sticker on my car. Couple days later the windshield was smashed along with several others in the neighborhood (Morningside, NYC), all had Republican bumper stickers. Three or four years ago a young college student was beaten to death in Jacksonville for wearing a Georgia Bulldogs tee shirt. I was in the area and had seen the victim a few minutes before he was killed. I make myself as anonymous as possible. I even strip the company logo off issue clothing. I have been challenged for this a couple of times, my reply is "I don't want to get my ass beat or killed and the company won't let me carry a firearm." That ends the discussion.

Aside from the fact that I generally just prefer a clean vehicle with nothing on it, the above are also reasons why I stay away from those three particular types of identifiers (political, pro-gun, sports). Given my location I'm in about as friendly territory as it gets when it comes to political things, but all it takes is one person to ruin my day. My vehicle does sit outside so I don't want any red flags that it is a gun-owning house that I'm not at, more often than not. And people can get kind of strange about college football, and I probably am in Tallahassee more than Gainesville so I stay away from Florida stickers, though I did consider getting a Gators license plate at one time.

[orionz06]

Nothing wrong with a clean car.

[tb-av]

What about a "My Man is a Marine" on your wife's car?

I saw a plate several months ago at the grocery store.


SNPR WFE = Sniper Wife .... seems counter intuitive to have that but...

Then again maybe it's Snipper Wife and either she is a hair dresser or hubby is a barber.

[sgtjosh]

deleted post-off topic

[Army Chief]

deleted post-off topic

I didn't think it was off-topic. I thought it was positively brilliant.

AC

[Suwannee Tim]

It was made clear to my wife and I that the locals of Jefferson County, Florida resented outsiders canoeing in "their" Wacissa River. I didn't give a shit what they thought but our car tag had Duval County stamped on it making the vehicle a target for vandals. Later the Legislature permitted an owner to request a tag without a county mark which I did and still later they removed the county reference universally. Amazing what little bit of information can be used against you. At one time, with the know-how, one could tell if a car was a rental from it's Florida license plate. Criminals used this to target tourists who were, at the time, much less likely to be armed. The Legislature responded by mandating this coding be removed from tags and permitting non-Florida residents to obtain a CCW permit. Gotta love that Florida Legislature, huh? Oh, if you ever want to canoe the Wascissa River, get there early and get done by about 2 PM. The locals awake from their stupor about noon and 2 PM is about the time they get to the boat ramp.

[Belmont31R]

It was made clear to my wife and I that the locals of Jefferson County, Florida resented outsiders canoeing in "their" Wacissa River. I didn't give a shit what they thought but our car tag had Duval County stamped on it making the vehicle a target for vandals. Later the Legislature permitted an owner to request a tag without a county mark which I did and still later they removed the county reference universally. Amazing what little bit of information can be used against you. At one time, with the know-how, one could tell if a car was a rental from it's Florida license plate. Criminals used this to target tourists who were, at the time, much less likely to be armed. The Legislature responded by mandating this coding be removed from tags and permitting non-Florida residents to obtain a CCW permit. Gotta love that Florida Legislature, huh? Oh, if you ever want to canoe the Wascissa River, get there early and get done by about 2 PM. The locals awake from their stupor about noon and 2 PM is about the time they get to the boat ramp.




I think they did something similar for USAREUR license plates. When I had mine for a car and bike they all had the same prefix code. They switched them to be the same as what the locals would get which has a city prefix code for the plate number.



Lucky for me when I was stationed there I look as German as they come with blonde hair and blue eyes. I had no issues walking around by myself, and I didn't keep a 'GI haircut'. People didn't know I wasn't German until they started speaking to me and I said in German I didn't speak good Deutsche but if they spoke English that would be best.


I did this because we had a guy from my BN get murdered and was found floating down the Rhein River, and it appeared to be a Turk gang that did it outside a night club. The soldier was black which around mil bases tends to put 2 and 2 together for people there. We also had another soldier who spent two weeks in a German jail and then several months to unit custody while going through a murder trial after some Turks attacked, he got a knife away from one of them, and then stabbed one in self defense. He was cleared and allowed to go on with life but it was a constant drama fest with the locals. I had ZERO problems and in fact was treated really well because I looked German and took the time to learn basic communication skills. I couldn't hold down a conversation but I could order food and get around without any real issues.


With my own appearance and able to blend in I was fine out and about. But no matter where you are at I think its important not to stand out be it WA, Germany or wherever. Obviously you can't blend in everywhere but where you can't you can still do things to not make yourself the obvious sore thumb. In addition to being stationed in Germany I had been there twice previously on trips including flying out the day after graduating HS with my best friend. I learned how to not stick out on those trips, and got around fine even being 18 and dumb as a donut.

[QuietShootr]

I think they did something similar for USAREUR license plates. When I had mine for a car and bike they all had the same prefix code. They switched them to be the same as what the locals would get which has a city prefix code for the plate number.



Lucky for me when I was stationed there I look as German as they come with blonde hair and blue eyes. I had no issues walking around by myself, and I didn't keep a 'GI haircut'. People didn't know I wasn't German until they started speaking to me and I said in German I didn't speak good Deutsche but if they spoke English that would be best.


I did this because we had a guy from my BN get murdered and was found floating down the Rhein River, and it appeared to be a Turk gang that did it outside a night club. The soldier was black which around mil bases tends to put 2 and 2 together for people there. We also had another soldier who spent two weeks in a German jail and then several months to unit custody while going through a murder trial after some Turks attacked, he got a knife away from one of them, and then stabbed one in self defense. He was cleared and allowed to go on with life but it was a constant drama fest with the locals. I had ZERO problems and in fact was treated really well because I looked German and took the time to learn basic communication skills. I couldn't hold down a conversation but I could order food and get around without any real issues.


With my own appearance and able to blend in I was fine out and about. But no matter where you are at I think its important not to stand out be it WA, Germany or wherever. Obviously you can't blend in everywhere but where you can't you can still do things to not make yourself the obvious sore thumb. In addition to being stationed in Germany I had been there twice previously on trips including flying out the day after graduating HS with my best friend. I learned how to not stick out on those trips, and got around fine even being 18 and dumb as a donut.

We had a couple of guys from my Bn get jumped on the U-bahn and sliced up by Turks. It was on like Donkey Kong in Kreuzburg for a couple of months after that. It took about four weeks for Bde to put it OL, but after a couple of MPs got ****ed up walking around by themselves, enforcement of the off-limits got a little...spotty.

**** the Turks.

[Army Chief]

I think they did something similar for USAREUR license plates. When I had mine for a car and bike they all had the same prefix code. They switched them to be the same as what the locals would get which has a city prefix code for the plate number.

True statement, but the Amis are still pretty easy to pick out, due to our penchant for stupid accessorization and making our cars an outlet for individual expression. I drove a de-badged M5 (and later a de-badged M3), and put the wife in an Audi A6 Avant, and we managed to blend in quite nicely. Never had a problem.

AC

[Belmont31R]

We had a couple of guys from my Bn get jumped on the U-bahn and sliced up by Turks. It was on like Donkey Kong in Kreuzburg for a couple of months after that. It took about four weeks for Bde to put it OL, but after a couple of MPs got ****ed up walking around by themselves, enforcement of the off-limits got a little...spotty.

**** the Turks.




They started MP patrols in the city while I was there, and I just stayed away from the American hot spots unless we were in a huge group. Learning the language and looking like a German allowed me to go spend my free time places a lot of others wouldn't go, and allowed me to experience Germany for Germany not the sports bar most people went to. Granted I violated the battle buddy system every weekend but from previous experience, language knowledge and just general common sense I was accepted everywhere I went. Especially the little villages off the beaten path. I ate far better than everyone else and had a blast over there.


I also spent the Christmas of 2003 with a gal who was an exchange student at my HS. Once I got over there I had like 2 months before going to Iraq for deployment number 1 so I went down to her little Bavarian alpine village for a week.


Its not that hard to do but you just have to put some conscientious effort into it. A couple of my buddies are still over there after getting out and married Germans. Some never realized where they were at and went out looking for trouble. Some of them ended up in a river and others came back with fewer teeth and murder trials under their belt.

[Smuckatelli]

After having a Red Mustang in the Central African Republic (1993)...that I originally bought in Okinawa...I've given up worrying about vehicular opsec.

[ucrt]

.

I never put a football team, polical sticker, or anything on my cars BUT several years ago, I put one of those red, white & blue magnetic "ribbon" decals that stated, "My Son is in the USMC".

I had a covert purpose...I jack-knifed my utility trailer with my wife's car and that decal perfectly hid the little ding. I've since inherited that car as a work car, the sticker is still there, and my wife still doesn't know what happened.

NOTE - I should have stated that my son was in the USMC at the time. About to replace the "USMC" sticker with another one for my other son with, "My Son is in the Navy".
.

[chadbag]

Well, I am walking around Japan now, but seeing as I am blond and blue-eyed and a bit taller than most here, I wear my VERTX pants (the Multicam (MC) ones mostlt, but also some beige and tan ones), my TROY or BFG or DD T-Shirts, and a BFG Micro DAP Pak with a MC US Flag and a MC "Don't Tread on Me" Flag and a Magpul Dynamics patches on the back.

I figure that since I stand out anyway, I might as well put across the image of "don't mess with me" while I am here... No one seems to bat an eye.

---

at home I generally drive clean cars/trucks now. I will admit I have a Magpul and a Magpul Dynamics window stickers (small variety) in the back window of my truck, but nothing else. Car is currently mostly clean. Had a Magpul Dynamics small window sticker in the driver rear small window but my kids scraped most of it up and out. They are the small ones that stick on the inside window and I figure that to most people they mean nothing and to friendlies it might be a good clue. And I am in UTAH which is a pretty conservative and gun friendly place.

I used to have a pro-gun bumper sticker and one that said "Live Free" on my old car but as cars got replaced I decided the (mostly) clean look is best.

When I lived in NH and worked in Mass I liked to tweek peoples' noses with my pro gun and "Live Free" stickers on my then car but I was younger then.