View Full Version : Gun owners that are not gun people
I often find these types the most frustrating to deal with.
Non gun owners, are generally either anti gun or neutral on the issue, so you attempt to educate them as needed, de program them from one sided media BS, use data vs emotion, etc, etc. You know the drill.
Then, there's those who own guns for a specific use, and can't fathom any other use.
Example:
I bud is a very dedicated hunter, not just occasional, but virtually every weekend possible, small game season, deer season, licenses in all states in his region, etc. He has a case full of nice hunting rifles, shot guns, and such.
We have gone to the range a few times to site in some new rifle of his and such. He's no gun expert by any means, but loves his hunting.
Personally, never cared for hunting. Have done if a few times over the years, but it's just not my "thing"
I go to his house to help him move some stuff. Take off my over shirt as I'm getting hot.
He sees CCW rig and gives a "WTF" type look and a "why are you wearing a gun?"
I respond with usual (as I know him well, he's a gun owner, etc) comment like "better to have one and not need it, then need it and not have it" type comment, but he persists.
"Why would you need to carry a gun? This is a safe area, blah blah"
Now I'm getting annoyed as I thought this would be almost the last person I would have such a conversation with.
"Dude, you have a case full of guns and blow the heart out of just about anything you legally can, and you can't see why a person might see fit to carry a method of self defense?"
He says something like "but that's for hunting, I don't need a gun other then that, just seems weird you would feel like you needed to carry that thing" and so forth. General paraphrase, but you all know exactly how this goes.
So, I gave him some of the usual reasons, he sort of nodded his head, clearly didn't "get it" and we moved on.
No biggie, but, it reminded me of those odd people that own guns, use them for some specific use, and still don't understand the larger picture, other uses of guns, etc, etc
I find them much harder to deal with and fathom then the the usual anti or non gun owner (not always the same thing...) and find they can come from the oddest places.
Have such an experience? How did you deal with them?
William B.
09-18-11, 10:43
I feel you, brother. I used to work for a Major who was the same way. He was a competition shooter and gun owner, but always acted like a know-it-all and smart-ass whenever I talked about CC. We had this conversation once when he overheard me saying that I was considering switching credit unions if I could find one that was more gun friendly.
Him: "Why do you need a gun in a bank?"
Me: "For personal defense, sir."
Him: "Why not just let the robbers have their money and leave?"
Me: "If somebody is robbing a place while I'm there and is waving a gun around as a threat they're using my life as a negotiation tool to get what they want. If that's all my life is worth to them I would rather take things into my own hands."
Him: "They probably just don't want their bank turned into OK Corral."
Me: :shout:
You can only lead a horse to water... of course this was the same guy who once, having returned from Afghanistan less than a year earlier, argued to me that there was no such thing as a 30rd AK47 magazine. Only 20rd ones. :blink:
You can only lead a horse to water... of course this was the same guy who once, having returned from Afghanistan less than a year earlier, argued to me that there was no such thing as a 30rd AK47 magazine. Only 20rd ones. :blink:
Ugh! What's the chances of the first person to respond to this having the same initials?
I am a federal LEO and have a friend who objects to me carrying when he is around. I am not receptive to his objections.
Heavy Metal
09-18-11, 12:12
"but that's for hunting, I don't need a gun other then that, just seems weird you would feel like you needed to carry that thing"
"....and it seems wierd to me how every spring and fall, you go into the woods like a psychopath and stalk and kill a bunch of innocent animals when there is a prefectly fine supermarket right down on the corner just stuffed full of food! I MEAN, YOU ACTUALLY KILL THINGS FOR SPORT!, NOT NEED, JUST SPORT!! Who REALLY needs to hunt!?!"
I always like to take their own 'logic' and feed it back to them. Some even see the light.
i believe the term is Fudd. as long as elmer can blast rabbits, you can ban the rest. this is also why a lot of Left politicians try to get that cameo shot of them bird hunting, and cater to that "2nd amendment" voter.
Army Chief
09-18-11, 13:10
I think many people persist in the believe that the odds of ever needing a firearm for self defense are, at best, on par with those of being struck by lightning. I'm not sure that this was ever true in America, but it certainly isn't true today.
Personally, I'm not nearly as worried about self defense as I am about finding myself in a situation wherein people that I care about are threatened, and I'm caught totally flat-footed, with no ability to offer an effective response.
Carry the tool, and hope that you never have to do the job. But carry the tool nonetheless.
AC
SeriousStudent
09-18-11, 13:27
I have homeowner's insurance. I own fire extinguishers. I wear a seat belt. I have a spare tire and a jack in my car. I have smoke and CO2 detectors in my home.
In the line of work I am in, I do threat modeling every day. What can go wrong, what is the likelihood of it going wrong, and what is the impact of it going wrong?
As AC stated, CCW is just another tool I pay for, and I hope I will never need.
i like using the "well you vote" argument.
we basically vote with the hope that our single vote will somehow sway the election for "our guy" to get in. I mean hell, the odds that he'll even end up being "our guy" are pretty low in the end. The bottom line though is that if you have the right to vote and don't exercise said right it isn't worth jack shit.
same goes for firearms. you have the right to bear arms. it's certainly not a fashion accessory, (hey babe check out my asymmetrical square love handle! :cool: ) people carry on the off chance that that decision will save their lives, and potentially the lives of dozens of innocent people.
Your right to bear arms does nothing for you when you keep it in a safe at home.
i believe the term is Fudd. as long as elmer can blast rabbits, you can ban the rest. this is also why a lot of Left politicians try to get that cameo shot of them bird hunting, and cater to that "2nd amendment" voter.
I once overheard a guy at a store saying why do we need 30 rounds mags? Nothing is as exciting as deer hunting huh:lazy2:
I have homeowner's insurance. I own fire extinguishers. I wear a seat belt. I have a spare tire and a jack in my car. I have smoke and CO2 detectors in my home.
In the line of work I am in, I do threat modeling every day. What can go wrong, what is the likelihood of it going wrong, and what is the impact of it going wrong?
As AC stated, CCW is just another tool I pay for, and I hope I will never need.
I use that same reasoning about the seat belts, fire extinguishers, jumper cables, spare tire, extra belts, stop leak and a either water or coolant, flashlight, multi tool etc. Although you'd be surprised how many people don't have fire extinguishers.
I'm a hunter and a gun guy. I also dont care for those types.
My father inlaw looked at me as if i was insane when i pulled out my AR to go hunting. What he said, "i'll leave those black guns to the army"...i lol'd.
Some people dont and WONT get it.
it's gotta be where you lay your head...that is simply not something you experience here in tx.
at least where i am anyway.
.
What's funny is the Fudd's don't understand the Constitution doesn't guarantee you a gun to hunt with, it guarantees you a gun to kill people with...
But maybe it's just me...
.
RogerinTPA
09-18-11, 21:55
That is a weird response from a firearms owner, but dedicated Fudds, are a strange bunch anyway. What I've noticed over the years is that quite a large population of LEO and Military type organizations, aren't gun people, despite the fact the carry a weapon in their careers. Even some HSLD types I've personally met, were completely ignorant of their personal firearm. I was in shock. It was like talking to a Bubba at the local range.
I think many people persist in the believe that the odds of ever needing a firearm for self defense are, at best, on par with those of being struck by lightning. I'm not sure that this was ever true in America, but it certainly isn't true today.
Personally, I'm not nearly as worried about self defense as I am about finding myself in a situation wherein people that I care about are threatened, and I'm caught totally flat-footed, with no ability to offer an effective response.
Carry the tool, and hope that you never have to do the job. But carry the tool nonetheless.
AC
It was true for much of America once upon a time, parts have always been violent. And while it was unlikely that my father would be mugged in his small Iowa town in the 50s and 60s, guns were very common and in junior high it wasn't unusual for him and his buddies to walk through town on Main St. with slung rifles and holstered pistols on their way to shoot cans on the edge of town.
My father always had a gun in the car when I was growing up. He'd have probably carried concealed but that wasn't an option.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-19-11, 04:10
I was training at MWTC Bridgeport in 09 I believe. I got into a conversation with one of the lead instructors; a gun owning Ssgt. I asked if it was easy to get a CCW up there in the Nor Cal area, to which he responded CCW's are for pussies that cant fend for themselves. I had no response or rebuttal for his statement other than, "Good to go Ssgt, Im gonna go sit over there now."
The FUDDS are a classic type as has been mentioned. But another group that I seem to come into contact with quite a bit are what I term the "hobbyists." These are the guys who get into shooting, sometimes heavily, but never seem to grasp the true meaning of being able to own a firearm. Even though they may have thousands invested into their firearms, they see it is nothing more than a "hobby" or other form of entertainment, and are thus unconcerned about further encroachment on their rights. They question me puzzlingly when I tell them that the primary reason I want to move from Kalifornia are the gun laws with comments like "you can't really consider moving just for that." Many also fall into a "I've got mine" subset who feel as long as they have their "whatever", then who cares if the government restricts others. In many ways, these guys are more dangerous to us that the non-gun owner brady type as they carry a false aura of authority about them. :rolleyes:
QuietShootr
09-19-11, 11:08
I am a federal LEO and have a friend who objects to me carrying when he is around. I am not receptive to his objections.
Why would you be friends with someone like that?
QuietShootr
09-19-11, 11:12
That is a weird response from a firearms owner, but dedicated Fudds, are a strange bunch anyway. What I've noticed over the years is that quite a large population of LEO and Military type organizations, aren't gun people, despite the fact the carry a weapon in their careers. Even some HSLD types I've personally met, were completely ignorant of their personal firearm. I was in shock. It was like talking to a Bubba at the local range.
It's true. Amazingly enough, there are some actual HSLD types who are ****ing socialists/big government bots by any definition of the word.
They're the ones I worry about, not the average Obamabot.
it's gotta be where you lay your head...that is simply not something you experience here in tx.
at least where i am anyway.
Texas was the worst place I've ever lived for "Fuddism". I worked as a contractor on Ft Hood as a helicopter technician. Was working on a deal for a DSA STG-58. While waiting for delivery, I showed my boss (who was retired Army, an avid hunter and had a plethora of NRA and "From My Cold Dead Hands" paraphernalia at his desk and plastered all over his truck) a picture of my new rifle. A look of disdain crossed his face and he let out a "what the hell do you need one of those for?" He wasn't the only one in Tejas who showed that kind or prejudice.
Of course, I've run into this other places as well. One guy I worked with in California was an ex-cop. He told me there was a polymer & ceramic pistol specifically designed and marketed to be used by terrorists to smuggle past airport metal detectors. When I tried to explain the facts to him he simply said "Look, I was a police officer and the department showed me the flyer." Ooookay....
I'm glad not all LEOs are like that
CarlosDJackal
09-19-11, 11:41
It's true. Amazingly enough, there are some actual HSLD types who are ****ing socialists/big government bots by any definition of the word...
I don't know if I would even consider them that. I prefer to use the term "Extreme Hypocrites". These guys truly think that they should be allowed a piece of equipment that should not be allowed for law-abiding citizens all because they work for the gubirmint.
I have run across more Trap and Skeet shooters who actually state that they should outlaw handguns and "black rifles" because in their words, "a regular civilian does not have a legitimate use or them".
The attitude of "I don't like it, make it illegal" is a huge problem that stems out further than just guns, and some times 2A advocates are just as guilty of falling into it.
I don't at all want to start a debate about specific instances, but many of the same people who wish for a pure 2A interpretation are the same ones who want to infringe on the 1A because some hippy offended them. It mirrors the behavior of that same hippy who wants to be able to say, burn a flag or call Bush Hitler, yet wants all guns to just magically disappear.
A world where private citizens defend every right, even the ones they themselves may not exercise, like, or even be able to tolerate with the same zeal and passion that they defend the ones close to them is a thought that could bring a tear to one's eye.
I have run across more Trap and Skeet shooters who actually state that they should outlaw handguns and "black rifles" because in their words, "a regular civilian does not have a legitimate use or them".
It should probably be legal to rob people like that on the spot.
:D
It's true. Amazingly enough, there are some actual HSLD types who are ****ing socialists/big government bots by any definition of the word.
They're the ones I worry about, not the average Obamabot.'
Seen that more than once. I remember a few guys having kittens on SOCNET when I posted videos of my HK21. Comments like "why does a civilian need a belt fed" were simply depressing. These are guys who have sworn an oath to protect and defend but so many of them think they are defending the US government and not the rights of the citizens.
'
Seen that more than once. I remember a few guys having kittens on SOCNET when I posted videos of my HK21. Comments like "why does a civilian need a belt fed" were simply depressing. These are guys who have sworn an oath to protect and defend but so many of them think they are defending the US government and not the rights of the citizens.
Another gun that seems to get that response a lot is the .50. This bad boy was at my local store the other day:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/IMG_0033.jpg
QuietShootr
09-19-11, 17:06
'
Seen that more than once. I remember a few guys having kittens on SOCNET when I posted videos of my HK21. Comments like "why does a civilian need a belt fed" were simply depressing. These are guys who have sworn an oath to protect and defend but so many of them think they are defending the US government and not the rights of the citizens.
I think there is a sour grapes contingent, as well as a good number of guys whose self-image of "I'm sooo special" is threatened by the idea of a mere civilian having better weapons than they do.
The attitude of "I don't like it, make it illegal" is a huge problem that stems out further than just guns, and some times 2A advocates are just as guilty of falling into it.
Definitely a huge problem.
'
Seen that more than once. I remember a few guys having kittens on SOCNET when I posted videos of my HK21. Comments like "why does a civilian need a belt fed" were simply depressing. These are guys who have sworn an oath to protect and defend but so many of them think they are defending the US government and not the rights of the citizens.
My standard counter to this line of reasoning is "Why do people need a car that can go faster than 65mph?"
After all, you can drive it within the speed limit, then take it to a race track and let loose. You use the tool according to the situation and the environment.
I often get a reply along the lines of "Well, cars don't kill people!" to which I just raise an eyebrow and say "Want to compare vehicle crash deaths with gun deaths per year?"
SeriousStudent
09-19-11, 23:23
My standard counter to this line of reasoning is "Why do people need a car that can go faster than 65mph?"
After all, you can drive it within the speed limit, then take it to a race track and let loose. You use the tool according to the situation and the environment.
I often get a reply along the lines of "Well, cars don't kill people!" to which I just raise an eyebrow and say "Want to compare vehicle crash deaths with gun deaths per year?"
The exact logic I used a few months ago, with a friend who owns a Porsche, but does not like firearms.
"Catherine, why do you need an assault car? The only reason you need something that will do 145 MPH is if you want to break the law. There's no valid sporting purpose for it. It should stay locked up at the track, and you should have a special license. You should also have to demonstrate a need for that special car, and meet exacting proficiency standards."
Her response? And I quote......
"F*** you, Serious. I'm a safe driver. I've never had an accident, it's my money, and I'm not hurting anyone. If you don't like it, don't buy one. But don't tell me what I can and cannot do with my own damn money."
Moi: "So, dear, why does your lingerie get twisted over my firearms....?"
Speechless. A bulb began to glow, although dimly. She stayed quiet for a while. And she STFU about guns for the rest of the night. :D
So there is hope. Some will listen, but they are rare indeed.
Heavy Metal
09-20-11, 09:31
I don't know if I would even consider them that. I prefer to use the term "Extreme Hypocrites". These guys truly think that they should be allowed a piece of equipment that should not be allowed for law-abiding citizens all because they work for the gubirmint.
I have run across more Trap and Skeet shooters who actually state that they should outlaw handguns and "black rifles" because in their words, "a regular civilian does not have a legitimate use or them".
....because Trap and Skeet shooting provides such an essential function to America that it simply could not be outlawed as frivilous and unnecessary without the complete collapes of Western Civilization, it ......uhhh.....it......what does it do again?
Army Chief
09-20-11, 09:42
"Catherine, why do you need an assault car?"
I really wish that I lived within beer-drinking distance of this guy.
AC
SeriousStudent
09-20-11, 19:19
You do the commute, I will buy the beverages.
Come to think of it, your "commuting vehicle" has a greater range and higher top speed than my Toyota.
Meetcha half way. There's got to be a good place in Memphis we can find ribs and beer.
I'll even try and bring the cute redhead with the Porsche. Women are suckers for you aviator types. :D
Belmont31R
09-20-11, 19:49
The most dangerous time of the year at the range is the two weeks before opening day.
They dust off the ole 06 and the box of shells they got 20 years ago to see if ole Betsy still will hit near the target.
And I know thats not all hunters, and most of them are pretty safe. But it only takes one, and I don't really trust anyone on the range who goes once a year to follow safe handling procedures.
Magic_Salad0892
09-21-11, 05:15
'
my HK21.
You have an HK21?...
I hate you. Is it auto? Or just a semi variant?
You have an HK21?...
I hate you. Is it auto? Or just a semi variant?
It is a Vollmer semi 91 conversion, but I have a registered .308 pack.
4x4twenty6
09-21-11, 10:36
I dont think Memphis would be a great place to meet and hang out. I hear its pretty rough and some folks here in little rock refer to it as Memfrica. Apparently its like a damn concrete jungle.
SeriousStudent
09-22-11, 22:55
Sigh. I do so dislike it when someone bumps into me, and spills my beer.
So Memphis is out. I guess it's Little Rock or Nashville.
GermanSynergy
09-23-11, 01:29
Sigh. I do so dislike it when someone bumps into me, and spills my beer.
Francis Begbie hates it too. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utN9s_zGCms)
NSFW
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