View Full Version : Accu-Wedge
What's everybodys thoughts on the accu-wedge? I've never used one before.
I doubt it has any benefit to accuracy since the optic and barrel are both on the upper, but you can use it to remove annoying rattle from especially loose upper/lower fits.
A reasonable amount of play between the upper and lower receiver has absolutely no effect on accuracy. The relationship between the optic / sights and the barrel is unaffected by this movement. All an Accu-Wedge is going to do is break apart and jam up your fire control group, possibly rendering your weapon unusable. And if Murphy has his way, this will be at the worst possible time. The Accu-Wedge is a solution looking for a problem. Stay away.
As a Colt AR-15/M-16 Armorer what do you know about its function?
Also forgot to mention that sometimes an Accu-Wedge can make it extremely difficult to move the takedown pin without using some kind of punch. This is less than ideal in case you need to quickly break down your rifle. Also, think about the additional stress such a tight fit would put on that pin and related assemblies. Yet another reason to not use an Accu-Wedge.
I can't imagine one breaking apart inside the gun. They are compressed under and wedged behind the pin lug. I have heard of pistol recoil buffers breaking inside the gun though.
As a Colt AR-15/M-16 Armorer what do you know about its function?
Function of what? A Colt? I'm sure it functions fine without the accu-wedgie
Robb Jensen
09-18-11, 21:19
I only use them in match guns to tighten up the fit.
I think it's something to remember or worry about that's not needed. I have an AR with the upper and lower matched to a point that the rear pin is real tight but starting to loosen up to a point that I can push it out with a little pressure on the rear of the upper. I have two other AR's that are loose between the upper and lower. They all shoot with no difference in accuracy. Keep it simple, eliminate what is not needed and you will have fewer things that might fail over time or by design.
I can't imagine one breaking apart inside the gun. They are compressed under and wedged behind the pin lug. I have heard of pistol recoil buffers breaking inside the gun though.
Some genius in my unit bought a whole bunch of these during a deployment some years back. A lot of people took the bait, and there were numerous instances of the Accu-Wedge splitting down the middle vertically, dislodging, and falling down underneath and into the FCG area. A real pain in the ass to get out without removing the trigger. Needless to say, they were soon banned from use. This may not be common in controlled environments, but I believe the high heat and low humidity in the desert lead to the rubber drying out and cracking.
Ok, if they broke then they can break.
I had one many years ago before I knew better than to intentionally insert foreign debris into my guns.
After three weeks, the rubber compressed to the point where it was no longer keeping any tension on the upper.
It also began to crumble not long after, and I found bits of red rubber inside my bolt carrier, trigger assy and receiver extension.
Stay away.
Function of what? A Colt? I'm sure it functions fine without the accu-wedgie
Well, there is that. There is supposed to be some slop between the upper and lower.
I think if it were that big of a deal a set screw inside might be a better option.
You can use some Epoxy in the right spot.
My thought I would Not use it in my rifle
Epoxy will eventually break down & crumble from solvents, vibration & shock
Myself and others have see that issue with them as well. They are about as useful as tits on a bull. But, hey people keep buying them.
Some genius in my unit bought a whole bunch of these during a deployment some years back. A lot of people took the bait, and there were numerous instances of the Accu-Wedge splitting down the middle vertically, dislodging, and falling down underneath and into the FCG area. A real pain in the ass to get out without removing the trigger. Needless to say, they were soon banned from use. This may not be common in controlled environments, but I believe the high heat and low humidity in the desert lead to the rubber drying out and cracking.
Better solution. Apply O-ring to front lower receiver take-down post area. Lower-upper play eliminated, without fouling FCG or generally making your rifle useless.
Eurodriver
09-19-11, 06:13
Better solution. Apply O-ring to front lower receiver take-down post area. Lower-upper play eliminated, without fouling FCG or generally making your rifle useless.
You are trying to find a solution to a non existent problem.
Why is upper/lower slop a bad thing? Lets focus on that first.
I'll start: Its not.
I can't imagine one breaking apart inside the gun. They are compressed under and wedged behind the pin lug. I have heard of pistol recoil buffers breaking inside the gun though.
Happens all the time. Oil and solvents get to it and breaks it down.
Have seen it. This is why they are a no go for a real fighting gun.
C4
Happens all the time. Oil and solvents get to it and breaks it down.
Have seen it. This is why they are a no go for a real fighting gun.
C4
Do you know off hand the TDP required clearance between the upper and lower, ie, the slop?
As per the TM.
Do you know off hand the TDP required clearance between the upper and lower, ie, the slop?
1. With the upper receiver attached to the lower receiver, and the pivot pin and takedown pins in place,
perform the following test:
(a) Apply hand pressure to push the upper receiver as far to one side as possible.
(b) Attempt to insert a 0.020 inch thickness gage between the pivot pin lugs or the upper and lower
receivers.
(c) If the thickness gage penetrates to the pivot pin at all accessible locations, repair by replacement of
the upper receiver (see (b) below) or replacement of rifle is required.
2. If the rifle fails the above test, remove the upper receiver and install a "NEW" upper receiver and perform
the test again.
3. If the rifle now passes the above test, it shall be considered serviceable and continue in use.
4. If the rifle fails the test with a new upper receiver, this failure shall be considered a shortcoming. This
shortcoming requires action to obtain a replacement rifle. Once a replacement has been received,
evacuate the original rifle to depot for overhaul.
3-68
SWATcop556
09-19-11, 10:28
Before I really knew anything about the difference between comp. guns and fighting guns I used them. I was lucky enough that I never had mine cause any issues but I have seen them fail and cause major problems.
If it was a competition rifle then I could see where they would be perceived as a nice addition, however on a fighting rifle they are a no-go and I take them out of an dept. rifles where people try to sneak them in.
They are the rifle equivalent of the pistol Shok-Buff. More of a problem than a solution.
Wow this got a lot of replys. Personally I don't see the point in it. Who really cares about some rattle between the upper and lower. Your sights aren't moving without the barrel. I was really just looking for some thoughts on this piece. One of our officer had it in his rifle for qualifications and I had him take it out. Just thought it was giving Mr. Murphy an open invitation to the party.
SWATcop556
09-19-11, 10:34
Wow this got a lot of replys. Personally I don't see the point in it. Who really cares about some rattle between the upper and lower. Your sights aren't moving without the barrel. I was really just looking for some thoughts on this piece. One of our officer had it in his rifle for qualifications and I had him take it out. Just thought it was giving Mr. Murphy an open invitation to the party.
Good call in having him remove it. Not worth the hassle when you can't get the rifle up and running without removing the FCG.
ApacheTactical
09-19-11, 10:38
What I think of the wedge.....
They made it in bright red or orange so that ie reaches out tot he buyer's eyes and who do you know that would not spend $5 to $10 on a upgrade to improve the rifles quality. I wouldn't waist my money.
I left the thread open simply because no matter how many times it's been discussed people need a reminder on how worthless they are. Spend the money on something useful like a good lube or some magazines.
Spend the money on something useful like a good lube or some magazines.
Buy some lube and good magazines......
You are trying to find a solution to a non existent problem.
Why is upper/lower slop a bad thing? Lets focus on that first.
I'll start: Its not.
Here's a novel concept: other people will have different preferences than you!
I find the upper-lower slop annoying when handling the gun. I like my gun to feel solid. I have zero expections of any silly claim of increase in accuracy. My Centurion Arms barrel takes care of that anyways.
Oh no, I just spent 2 cents on an o-ring, and the problem is solved. Clearly I am an idiot!
SWATcop556
09-19-11, 14:21
Here's a novel concept: other people will have different preferences than you!
I find the upper-lower slop annoying when handling the gun. I like my gun to feel solid. I have zero expections of any silly claim of increase in accuracy. My Centurion Arms barrel takes care of that anyways.
Oh no, I just spent 2 cents on an o-ring, and the problem is solved. Clearly I am an idiot!
It's not the issue that you find it annoying. Its that people come on this site and sing the praises of the "increased accuracy" of their bang stick because of the accuwedge. No one is calling you an idiot but Eurodriver is correct in the fact that no matter how annoying you find it, it is a non-issue.
Here's this issue:
By simply installing the Accu-Wedge underneath the takedown pin lug on the upper receiver, the "slop" found on many AR-15 rifles can be reduced or eliminated. Removal of the slop can result in increased accuracy and more reliable feeding.
Found here:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=698479
So when its advertised as improving accuracy yet does jack shit for it and then every jack-off spreads the "glory of the accuwedge" across the board, people throw the BS flag.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion/preference, no matter how wrong it is.
It's not the issue that you find it annoying. Its that people come on this site and sing the praises of the "increased accuracy" of their bang stick because of the accuwedge. No one is calling you an idiot but Eurodriver is correct in the fact that no matter how annoying you find it, it is a non-issue.
It annoys me, it's an issue to me, I fixed it for practically nothing. I guess I should have just stayed out of this thread to start with, because my issue is subjective feel of my firearm, not some vain attempt to objectively increase the accuracy of it with a ridiculous hunk of plastic.
Regardless, let's get back to slamming the Accu-Wedge, because it really is an overpriced piece of crap that does more harm than...well, I can't say good, because it doesn't really accomplish any of that either.
Tried them. One split apart on high round fa. Don't want to try another.
I guess there could be an argument made for not going to war with the wedge, but from a civilian standpoint they are a benefit. Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now. I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period. Perhaps they were Chinese knockoffs made to self destruct!
I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period.
Think about what you just said. You just implied that normal weapons maintenance would add to the longevity of an Accu-Wedge.
Explain to me the correlation between "normal" weapons maintenance and increased Accu-Wedge longevity.
Hint: There is none.
I would actually argue that proper weapons maintenance and lubrication would in fact hasten the time in which an Accu-Wedge would fail because of the introduction of CLP and solvent.
I would further argue that this entire argument is worthless because the Accu-Wedge is worthless and that we're spinning our wheels here.
DeltaSierra
09-19-11, 17:40
Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
Just how does the Accu-Wedge help either of those things?
Confidence?
If a little piece of plastic in your gun that increases your chances of a failure increases your confidence in the weapon...
Feel of the weapon?
I don't care if the "slop" bothers you. Get over it.
There are much bigger issues to deal with here...
Wow...even now I know this is a bad idea...
But by "increasing confidence" he meant to a civvie shooter, the Accuwedge increases confidence because the gun doesn't rattle. I know, the logic is flawed because there is no accuracy increase so it's a moot point to the enlightened, but if it's what floats Joe DPMS buyer's boat, more power to him.
If the slop is annoying, get an upper with a set screw or put in the O-ring. Don't say "get over it", because I have, by using an O-ring and solving the problem. You say get over it when a guy complains about having to buy a new bolt after 15,000 rounds on F/A with corrosive ammo through a Hesse/Blackthorne build, not when he wants a solid fit in his rifle.
Just remember, us enlightened AR guys can giggle when the dummies praise their Accuwedges as the ultimate in AR accuracy improvements and our $.02 O-rings or tolerance of the slop is getting along just fine :sarcastic:
if an accu-wedge in the gun gives you confidence then maybe you should give it a teat and nose job too.
Eurodriver
09-19-11, 19:08
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now.
Heh.
I can't believe this has turned from an "Accuwedge makes my gun more accurate" thread to an "Accuwedge instills confidence by eliminative rattle and making me feel better about my gun" thread. Seems like people will say anything to justify their bad decision making. I have personally qualified with iron sights using an M16A2 from the 1980s (This was in 2007) at 500 yards with an upper/lower "slop" that was looser than Jenna Jameson. Common sense said looser tolerances increase reliability and that the sighting system was inseparable from the barrel and chamber.
Is this forum still for professionals or are Fudd shooters taking over? Give me a break.
Really? How much do you want to bet that many of those using the silly ass Accu-crud are shooting Wolf ammo and have questionable AR builds? As a matter of fact they are probably the same people that have castle nuts and carrier keys that are not staked and .223 chambers and routine failures to extract.
So tell me what is a real confidence booster? A properly constructed AR made with quality parts. Or some Bubbafudd Assault Gun complete with Accu-crap, Chinese knock off optics and UTG gear?
I guess there could be an argument made for not going to war with the wedge, but from a civilian standpoint they are a benefit. Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now. I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period. Perhaps they were Chinese knockoffs made to self destruct!
Just think some idoit that came up with this one cent to make piece of plastic is now probably making millions off of something that isn't needed in your rifle. And in the end will cause problems in your $2000. rifle.....
It's a Transfer Device.... a device designed to transfer $$$ from your pocket into someone else's.
Think about what you just said. You just implied that normal weapons maintenance would add to the longevity of an Accu-Wedge.
Explain to me the correlation between "normal" weapons maintenance and increased Accu-Wedge longevity.
Not the longevity, but prevention of failure by observation of the system you are running.
Hint: There is none.
I can take a hint... it isn't open for discussion
I would actually argue that proper weapons maintenance and lubrication would in fact hasten the time in which an Accu-Wedge would fail because of the introduction of CLP and solvent.
My personal experience of over 15 years would counter that.
I would further argue that this entire argument is worthless because the Accu-Wedge is worthless and that we're spinning our wheels here.
Bingo, something you are correct about.
Truth. I leaned my lesson. I don't trust it.
it almost sounds like youre saying that using an accuwedge encourages proper weapons maintenance because youre breaking it down more often to make sure the accuwedge isnt failing.
i dont really think (hope) thats what you meant but thats how it kinda sounded to me.
it almost sounds like youre saying that using an accuwedge encourages proper weapons maintenance because youre breaking it down more often to make sure the accuwedge isnt failing.
i dont really think (hope) thats what you meant but thats how it kinda sounded to me.
So essentially it's like a $12 piece of plastic that takes place of a string on your finger?
It annoys me, it's an issue to me, I fixed it for practically nothing. I guess I should have just stayed out of this thread to start with, because my issue is subjective feel of my firearm, not some vain attempt to objectively increase the accuracy of it with a ridiculous hunk of plastic.
Regardless, let's get back to slamming the Accu-Wedge, because it really is an overpriced piece of crap that does more harm than...well, I can't say good, because it doesn't really accomplish any of that either.
When I find people say such things like "it annoys me." My advice is always to shoot more on the move (fixes the problem instantly). ;)
C4
I guess there could be an argument made for not going to war with the wedge, but from a civilian standpoint they are a benefit. Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now. I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period. Perhaps they were Chinese knockoffs made to self destruct!
How was your Colt not giving you confidence? I do not understand how a piece of plastic can all of the sudden gives someone "confidence." :confused:
C4
lifebreath
09-20-11, 11:25
When I find people say such things like "it annoys me." My advice is always to shoot more on the move (fixes the problem instantly). ;)C4
Hmmm ... I find myself agreeing here.
My first AR had almost no slop. I really liked the "feel." It was a Del-Ton. I quickly sold it (after having been educated and revising my plan :jester:) and bought a Knight's SR-15. The SR-15 had a bunch of movement, and it "bothered" me, even though the dealer said it was no big deal. I briefly tried the o-ring remedy, but did not like the fact that they were likely to wear and break loose. I simply had to readjust my mindset to embrace the fact that some play is inherent in the design and has zero impact on function.
Four thousand rounds, a Project Appleseed Rifleman's Patch (shot with the wiggly SR-15) and a carbine class later, I can't imagine worrying about it. My two Colts and a BCM also wiggle, and I am 100% confident in them - much more so than I would be with the "nice" feeling Del-Ton. The wiggle just isn't an issue that needs a solution, IMO.
lifebreath
09-20-11, 11:36
As per the TM.
1. With the upper receiver attached to the lower receiver, and the pivot pin and takedown pins in place,
perform the following test:
(a) Apply hand pressure to push the upper receiver as far to one side as possible.
(b) Attempt to insert a 0.020 inch thickness gage between the pivot pin lugs or the upper and lower
receivers.
(c) If the thickness gage penetrates to the pivot pin at all accessible locations, repair by replacement of
the upper receiver (see (b) below) or replacement of rifle is required.
2. If the rifle fails the above test, remove the upper receiver and install a "NEW" upper receiver and perform
the test again.
3. If the rifle now passes the above test, it shall be considered serviceable and continue in use.
4. If the rifle fails the test with a new upper receiver, this failure shall be considered a shortcoming. This
shortcoming requires action to obtain a replacement rifle. Once a replacement has been received,
evacuate the original rifle to depot for overhaul.
3-68
Thanks! Good info.
Hmmm ... I find myself agreeing here.
My first AR had almost no slop. I really liked the "feel." It was a Del-Ton. I quickly sold it (after having been educated and revising my plan :jester:) and bought a Knight's SR-15. The SR-15 had a bunch of movement, and it "bothered" me, even though the dealer said it was no big deal. I briefly tried the o-ring remedy, but did not like the fact that they were likely to wear and break loose. I simply had to readjust my mindset to embrace the fact that some play is inherent in the design and has zero impact on function.
Four thousand rounds, a Project Appleseed Rifleman's Patch (shot with the wiggly SR-15) and a carbine class later, I can't imagine worrying about it. My two Colts and a BCM also wiggle, and I am 100% confident in them - much more so than I would be with the "nice" feeling Del-Ton. The wiggle just isn't an issue that needs a solution, IMO.
You are a smart man that has realized what is important and what is not.
Golf clap is in order here.
C4
How was your Colt not giving you confidence? I do not understand how a piece of plastic can all of the sudden gives someone "confidence." :confused:
C4
its helped hundreds of dysfunctional insecure actresses!
turdbocharged
09-20-11, 14:28
I have seen a lot of bubbas at the local gun shows check for "unacceptable wiggle" and whine when it's not as tight as they're XYZ brand. I just smile as I'm walking by.
In fact this has happened to me when I've sold an AR and I could tell he was unsure about the purchase because of this.
Not much you can do when people don't believe that it's not really a big issue.
My Colt 6920 has an appreciable amount of wiggle, yet somehow it's dead nuts accurate.
Bringing this back up from the depths because I wanted to show that like a good boy, I used the search function to answer my own question.
So it looks like JB Welding the lower to the upper is a better bet than the wedge. (I'm kidding, don't look so horrified).
:p
Ok, I'm not gonna lie: I have one, and I use it. Here's the VERY limited application:
It's in my 6.8 franken-gun. It removes the slop between the upper and lower. By removing the play, there is less of an opportunity for the slop to get in the way of accuracy at farther ranges.
My 6.8 is only for coyotes and the like. The closest I've shot at was 100yds for zero, but then it's out to 200 and farther for getting rid of the yotes.
Getting rid of the slop removes also the potential for an un-level scope, which can be the difference between a hit and a miss.
THIS IS NOT A 'FIGHTING' GUN. IT'S A HUNTING RIFLE THAT I PUT 50 ROUNDS A YEAR THROUGH.
The play between some uppers and lowers does not affect accuracy. I use Accuwedges in my lowers because I'm slightly OCD and don't like things rattling. Don't get me started on my truck's interior noises...
You may think that it is making some difference, but in fact the play between the upper and lower is normal and has zero practical affect on accuracy at all.
Ok, I'm not gonna lie: I have one, and I use it. Here's the VERY limited application:
It's in my 6.8 franken-gun. It removes the slop between the upper and lower. By removing the play, there is less of an opportunity for the slop to get in the way of accuracy at farther ranges.
My 6.8 is only for coyotes and the like. The closest I've shot at was 100yds for zero, but then it's out to 200 and farther for getting rid of the yotes.
Getting rid of the slop removes also the potential for an un-level scope, which can be the difference between a hit and a miss.
THIS IS NOT A 'FIGHTING' GUN. IT'S A HUNTING RIFLE THAT I PUT 50 ROUNDS A YEAR THROUGH.
You may think that it is making some difference, but in fact the play between the upper and lower is normal and has zero practical affect on accuracy at all.
I'm really not trying to be a hard-headed disbeliever.... and I certainly don't want to ride the sinking ship to the bottom of the depths.. BUT...
It almost seems to me to be common sense that any wiggle/play in the entire system can affect the accuracy.
I'll get some testing done to prove it to myself. OK, so I'm being a bit hard headed.:jester:
The optics, barrel and bolt assembly are all contained in the upper.
The only thing the lower does is provide the fire control parts and spring/buffer.
Unless the very slight amount of play caused you to change your point of aim right before the shot broke, I don't see how it would effect anything.
I like tight fitting uppers and I used to have a wedge in my gun. Then I started noticing cracks in it, and the material seemed to be deteroriating. To that end I shit canned it.
If a wedge is something you want to use, I suggest frequent inspections and replacing it at regular intervals. Treat it like a wear item.
Go for it. Please let us know if you find any APPRECIABLE difference in accuracy.
I'm really not trying to be a hard-headed disbeliever.... and I certainly don't want to ride the sinking ship to the bottom of the depths.. BUT...
It almost seems to me to be common sense that any wiggle/play in the entire system can affect the accuracy.
I'll get some testing done to prove it to myself. OK, so I'm being a bit hard headed.:jester:
hotrodder636
03-03-12, 12:25
:sarcastic:
I have a better answer....I am going to carve a piece of wooden dowel into a similar shape of the accu-wedge and call it the "anti-slop plug". I will sell a set of 3 for $25, as wood is better than rubber....
:sarcastic:
rapomstage3
03-04-12, 06:55
Anytime i open a friends rifle and see an accuwedge i rip it out and tell them stop there whining. If you can slide a credit card through your receiver than you have a much bigger problem.
I've seen a couple of designs that incorporated a spring loaded captured pin to remove any receiver slop. The Sig M400 has a really neat design where the pin is even separated from the fire control parts.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?3786-Sig-Sauer-M400
A much more durable method than a rubber/plastic piece but harder to implement.
Don't people realize that all of those things really do is eventually cause the hole in the upper receiver lug to progressively go oval after each use of the takedown pin?
Accuwedge, detent, insert, whatever, its all just paying extra to ruin the upper sooner.
And then it'll rattle anyway because the gizmo used to 'tighten things up' did just that...
A fool and their money.......It should be named the "I'll smack you wedge" because you should be smacked for forking over the dollars for yet another gimmick!
Don't people realize that all of those things really do is eventually cause the hole in the upper receiver lug to progressively go oval after each use of the takedown pin?
Accuwedge, detent, insert, whatever, its all just paying extra to ruin the upper sooner.
And then it'll rattle anyway because the gizmo used to 'tighten things up' did just that...
7075 aluminium forgings are pretty delicate. :rolleyes:
When you rub a hardened steel pin against it it is.
A smooth oiled steel pin no less...
Bad mouthing a little rubber widget. Come on. I have been shooting ar,s since colt a1 era. Since then people been slapping everything on the stick including the kitchen sink.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Obviously some of us OCD peeps keep the company in business. +1 for capitalism.
medicin3man
03-04-12, 18:00
Ive had one in mine since 2001...no problems there.
I don't even know how this is a debate.
The following statements are indubitably, unequivocally true:
1) The accu-wedge does not increase accuracy or improve function in any way.
2) Sometimes, but not all the time, the accu-wedge can break apart, get stuck in the FCG, and impede function.
If you either A) deny the above or B) accept the above, but continue to use an accu-wedge, you are on a whole 'nother wavelength than me.
Just because you have had no problems does not mean that you have reaped a reward and has no bearing on this conversation. The fact that others, with extensive experience and expert knowledge, have had negative experiences and are telling you that it doesn't do a god damn thing, you would think, would be enough to convince you that maybe you shouldn't be using an accu-wedge...but some of you still want to leave these "drive by" style remarks like "no problems here." Absurdly stupid.
Is there really anything left to say on this?
I dont know if it will do anything for accuracy but I have used them before just to tighten things up. I used one on my double star and my Colt LE6920. I had to do a little trimming but once I got it fitting good it really did tighten things up.
threeheadeddog
03-04-12, 18:54
Ok, a bit of an off topic side question that kind of fits.
I have an AXTS A-DAC-F lower that has a place for a set-screw to tighten up the upper/lower. The set screw appears to have a plastic tip. It goes in vertically right behind the pistol grip screw and under the pistol grip.
I bought this lower for a future build. The set-screw was in no way a feature that swayed my purchase, and in fact I didnt even know about it until I opened my package.
So my question is, do I even bother installing it? Do I use it and rock on? Maby install it so it comes up short and doesnt make contact then loctite it?
I don't know how this performs, personally, but I see several AR's at the range that have been glass bedded at the rear lug to keep things solid.. Those of you who are OCD enough to let a tiny bit of movement bother you to the point of putting a foreign object just a couple inches away from your fire-control group, and just under the bolt carrier.... have a professional glass-bed your upper/lower! Then no worries about a piece of broken rubber stopping your rifle. Again, I have not used a glass-bedded AR, but I believe I would rather have that than an Accuwedge.
I can barely see a little light between my receivers, and they can move just enough to feel, but my rifle still throws groups well under 1 minute, so why try to fix something that isn't broken?? (my rifle is one of the real S&W M&P15T's, with the Troy components).
I saw pics of the AXTS lower. I had thought the screws were spring loaded plungers with a plastic tip. My concern would be the plastic could come off.
I've seen others using spring loaded plungers with a metal tip.
http://www.northwesterntools.com/product_info.php/model_number/33109
Something like that.
I always liked the fit and feel of guns with Vltor receivers because they are so solid. I just don't think a plastic wedge is the way to get there because of the durability problems. Tighter fitting receivers, Vltor, Larue et al are a better solution than adding parts. Should you want that fit with a generic forged receiver, I think adding a plunger like I linked, similar to that found in the Sig M400, is better than wedges.
I haven't seen any tests one way or another if having receiver slop would effect accuracy. It makes sense that it wouldn't, but again, never seen a test one way or another.
Has anybody opened up a new Colt and found one in it? Ron
Well a little google searching has answered my question.
I don't even know how this is a debate.
The following statements are indubitably, unequivocally true:
1) The accu-wedge does not increase accuracy or improve function in any way.
2) Sometimes, but not all the time, the accu-wedge can break apart, get stuck in the FCG, and impede function.
If you either A) deny the above or B) accept the above, but continue to use an accu-wedge, you are on a whole 'nother wavelength than me.
Just because you have had no problems does not mean that you have reaped a reward and has no bearing on this conversation. The fact that others, with extensive experience and expert knowledge, have had negative experiences and are telling you that it doesn't do a god damn thing, you would think, would be enough to convince you that maybe you shouldn't be using an accu-wedge...but some of you still want to leave these "drive by" style remarks like "no problems here." Absurdly stupid.
Is there really anything left to say on this?
Well said.
Haha, it's funny how much hate some people spew over this product. But I am touched some of you care so much about what's in my lowers that you will never have to use.:jester:
Failure2Stop
03-05-12, 09:36
Haha, it's funny how much hate some people spew over this product. But I am touched some of you care so much about what's in my lowers that you will never have to use.:jester:
It's called "giving good advice", and is pretty much the only value of forums like this. These threads are not only read by the people that post in them, and I would rather provide decent information than recommend potentially damaging snake-oil.
I don't see what the big deal is.
The AR15/M16 platform was designed without the Accuwedge.
All the components critical for accuracy, i.e. barrel and optics, are (hopefully) rigidly fixed to the upper. Play between lower and upper means nothing unless it exceeds specs somehow.
The SME's and experts here, who all have far more real-world experience than I will ever have, say it's not needed, and can be dangerous if it starts disintegrating and moving around. I have no cause or justification in challenging them.
Accuwedge = money ill-spent, along with non-rotating pins and all the other crap people hang off their AR's. My AR's have everything they need and nothing they don't because of the resources here.
That's why I come here - not to argue or defend the indefensible, but to listen to the experts and save myself time, money, and trouble.
It's called "giving good advice", and is pretty much the only value of forums like this. These threads are not only read by the people that post in them, and I would rather provide decent information than recommend potentially damaging snake-oil.
There's giving 'good advice' and there's being a dick about it. Not referring to you of course.:cool:
I have one in my weapon system...
Nice piece and gets rid of the annoying rattle. Gun feel nice and solid.
I have shot nearly 600rds out of it without any problem. Does make it a bit harder to remove the pivot pins for breakdown....but is do-able.
A piece of unnecessary kit.
I'll clarify:
The accu-wedge has no place in my fighting guns: ddm4v1 (personal) and Colt m4 (work)
Here is what resurrected this "debate" thread (so the mods know I wasn't trying to stir up trouble).
My cousin commented that he wanted to get one to fix the slop in his AR. I hadn't heard of them so I started doing some digging on forums and such to find out more about them.
Ultimately I told him he should worry more about the cheap handguards that move a quarter inch in either direction, and less on the two millimeter gap in his receivers.
He unfortunately still wants one, and hey that's cool, it's his gun. I did however come to the conclusion that I wouldn't personally use one.
two millimeter gap in his receivers.
I'm hoping that's exaggerated. :blink:
Canonshooter
03-05-12, 16:18
I'm hoping that's exaggerated. :blink:
These (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7591/Product/AR-15-AR-10-SR-25-REAR-TENSIONING-PIN) would fix it.
Also removes the tool less take down feature.
Just thought I would put this out there.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2i7s4r7.gif
Well, that is an interesting pic.:p
Canonshooter
03-05-12, 16:35
Also removes the tool less take down feature.
Indeed it does. The post was my lame attempt at humor.
Ahh...I see what you did there. ;)
For reference, the wedge I had that started to crack and deteriorate was a black Colt one. There seems to be a few made by different vendors. The better (IMO) seem to be the orange/red that has a slight sheen to it.
The military requirement (as I have posted before) is to take a .020 feeler gage, push the upper to the left and right and attempt to penetrate to the lug area between the upper and lower with the gage. If it hits then you are supposed to replace the upper.
If you replace it and it still fails you replace the lower.
The military requirement (as I have posted before) is to take a .020 feeler gage, push the upper to the left and right and attempt to penetrate to the lug area between the upper and lower with the gage. If it hits then you are supposed to replace the upper.
If you replace it and it still fails you replace the lower.
Never knew that.
Per TM 9-1005-319-23&P;
1. With the upper receiver attached to the lower receiver, and the pivot pin and takedown pins in place,
perform the following test:
a. Apply hand pressure to push the upper receiver as far to one side as possible.
b. Attempt to insert a 0.020 in. thickness gage between the pivot pin lugs of the upper and lower
receivers.
c. If the thickness gage penetrates to the pivot pin at all accessible locations, repair by replacement of
the upper receiver or replacement of weapon is required.
2. If weapon fails the above test, remove the upper receiver and install a "NEW" upper receiver and
perform the test again.
3. If weapon now passes the above test, it shall be considered serviceable and continue in use.
4. If weapon fails the test with a new upper receiver, this failure shall be considered a shortcoming. This
shortcoming requires action to obtain a replacement weapon. Once a replacement has been received,
evacuate the original weapon to depot for overhaul.
SpaceWrangler
03-06-12, 14:11
Spike's carbine with the rollmarks colored in. KNS pins. "Zombie Killer" engraved ejection port cover.
AccuWedge?
I have one in my weapon system...
https://www.m4carbine.net/image.php?u=31392&type=sigpic&dateline=1284563969
I believe it.
Go for it. Please let us know if you find any APPRECIABLE difference in accuracy.
I tested it. Although I can't provide pictures here, there is no appreciable/practical accuracy difference when I used an accuwedge or not.
I tried to keep it as scientific as possible, so here's the equipment used:
4cm diamond target with MOA grid.
50 yds.
Aimpoint 2-MOA T-1 with the 3x magnifier
COLT M4 rifle
M855A1 rounds
prone supported position (I actually put a bipod on for this test)
I shot 5 rounds with and then 5 rounds without the accuwedge; letting my barrel cool down a couple minutes in between.
The results were almost identical.
Thank you for reaffirming what many of us already knew. If you can post the pics later that would be nice as well.
I tested it. Although I can't provide pictures here, there is no appreciable/practical accuracy difference when I used an accuwedge or not.
I tried to keep it as scientific as possible, so here's the equipment used:
4cm diamond target with MOA grid.
50 yds.
Aimpoint 2-MOA T-1 with the 3x magnifier
COLT M4 rifle
M855A1 rounds
prone supported position (I actually put a bipod on for this test)
I shot 5 rounds with and then 5 rounds without the accuwedge; letting my barrel cool down a couple minutes in between.
The results were almost identical.
Dwsmitht343
05-18-12, 03:56
So most people here are saying not to bother with them. If someone who has combat experience says they are usually trouble that good enough for me. They may work good for some but why tempt fate?
on the plus side, now I don't have to haul an accuwedge back to the states. :D
They aren't needed however I don't care for some of the slop I have experienced with some AR's over the years. I don't use the accu wedge since I don't like how it fits near the FCG and makes take down harder. I prefer to simply slide a small O Ring over the front take down lug which gets rid of the slop, stays away from my FCG, and doesn't make take down any harder......plus its cheaper. As expected there are no increases in accuracy or reliability, however there also aren't any decreases either so I see no prob using it to fix the slop if one is bothered by it.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
They aren't needed however I don't care for some of the slop I have experienced with some AR's over the years. I don't use the accu wedge since I don't like how it fits near the FCG and makes take down harder. I prefer to simply slide a small O Ring over the front take down lug which gets rid of the slop, stays away from my FCG, and doesn't make take down any harder......plus its cheaper. As expected there are no increases in accuracy or reliability, however there also aren't any decreases either so I see no prob using it to fix the slop if one is bothered by it.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
I've tried the O-ring thing multiple times and they always seem to break/get pinched n snap.
It's funny that some top-tier manufacturer's are now starting to "address" u/l/ slop, while other top-tier's could give a crap.
Noveske's are TIGHT. I've handled a lot of brand new KAC SR15's that are loose as a goose. It used to not bother me at all, but after you've had tight receivers, in multiple ARs, going to something something sloppy kinda grates on my OCD nerves - I kind of expect it now.
It's funny that some top-tier manufacturer's are now starting to "address" u/l/ slop, while other top-tier's could give a crap.
Address or appeal to what people think they need? I think it is more of the latter. It is one more line item on a "features" list and it will not detract from the educated buyer who knows better.
Address or appeal to what people think they need? I think it is more of the latter. It is one more line item on a "features" list and it will not detract from the educated buyer who knows better.
That's why I put quotes around address. ;)
The big military contract manu.'s could care less about the sloppy fit. (i.e. Colt & KAC) Their guns are going directly into combat and tight u/l fit is about 192 on ther priority list.
I wasn't harping on you, just trying to be clear.
That's why I put quotes around address. ;)
The big military contract manu.'s could care less about the sloppy fit. (i.e. Colt & KAC) Their guns are going directly into combat and tight u/l fit is about 192 on ther priority list.
Colt cares about sloppy fit. Please read above, there's a requirement for the M4 to have a certain tolerance for upper-to-lower fit.
Colt cares about sloppy fit. Please read above, there's a requirement for the M4 to have a certain tolerance for upper-to-lower fit.
Ugh man. Of course there's a "tolerance" range Colt uses. It just isn't the same tolerance range other manufacturer's have, which was my original point. DPMS also has a tolerance range they use too. And Bushmaster. And Olympic Arms. And DoubleStar. Point is, they're all different.
Ugh man. Of course there's a "tolerance" range Colt uses. It just isn't the same tolerance range other manufacturer's have, which was my original point. DPMS also has a tolerance range they use too. And Bushmaster. And Olympic Arms. And DoubleStar. Point is, they're all different.
But only ONE of them is REALLY for an M4. ;)
Eurodriver
05-18-12, 12:07
I've tried the O-ring thing multiple times and they always seem to break/get pinched n snap.
It's funny that some top-tier manufacturer's are now starting to "address" u/l/ slop, while other top-tier's could give a crap.
Noveske's are TIGHT. I've handled a lot of brand new KAC SR15's that are loose as a goose. It used to not bother me at all, but after you've had tight receivers, in multiple ARs, going to something something sloppy kinda grates on my OCD nerves - I kind of expect it now.
Noveske uses MUR uppers.
Noveske uses MUR uppers.
Yes, however, they also hand-fit their upper and lower receivers together to very tight tolerances. That's something Colt, KAC and many others don't do. Or, if they do, they don't do it as tight as Noveskes. I was at the fun store yesterday at lunch. Handled 4 brand new KAC SR15's - each one was very loose. Picked up all 3 Noveske's right next them - tight, VERY tight.
Colts - all loose like the KACs - my 2 brand new Colts were loose as gooses, out of the box.
I will say - when my fun store had two of the "Magpul Edition" KAC SR15's - they were pretty tight - both of them. My guess is each "line" get's it's own treatment. They probably took the time to hand-fit the u/l on the special editions. I think they did a Knighthawk special edition - my guess is those were hand-fitted, although I've never seen one. I would bet an SR25 EMC rifle would be hand fitted as well as it's marketed as a match rifle as opposed to their std. SR25's - no proof to back it up - never handled an EMC , only std SR25.
To further my point, Colt knows it's rifles are going into combat and having armorers possibly swap u/l all day every day. They have to KNOW that any lower they manufactured is going to fit any upper they've manufactured. They also have to guarantee that a soldier will NOT be fighting tight takedown pins, should he need to take his rifle apart. This simply requires a slightly relaxed "spec" or "tolerance" - there's no way around it.
DIRTMAN556
05-19-12, 01:05
and didn't even need to do a search. . .
Good to know the info and will not be getting one. Great info as always.
and didn't even need to do a search. . .
Good to know the info and will not be getting one. Great info as always.
yea. I was "thinking" on the idea of getting an accuwedge for my lwrc m6a2...which are notorious for being loose, but nah. It functions perfectly and when i'm shooting it, i can't even tell it's a little loose.
Ghostmaker
05-19-12, 05:00
Here's a novel concept: other people will have different preferences than you!
I find the upper-lower slop annoying when handling the gun. I like my gun to feel solid. I have zero expections of any silly claim of increase in accuracy. My Centurion Arms barrel takes care of that anyways.
Oh no, I just spent 2 cents on an o-ring, and the problem is solved. Clearly I am an idiot!
I guess there could be an argument made for not going to war with the wedge, but from a civilian standpoint they are a benefit. Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now. I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period. Perhaps they were Chinese knockoffs made to self destruct!
Well, even as a regular civ', if your Ar is for personal defense then I say your focusing on something completely irrelevant.
If the slop in your gun is what needs to be addressed for you to be confident, then you got bigger problems. Why would it give someone confidence? Because the non-wiggling of their receivers somehow makes that boomstick more reliable? Obviously that is wrong. Most people with reputable backgrounds & experience can tell you that.
Whoever believes that the gun would be more reliable, or somehow make themselves more reliable has been told wrong &/or needs to work on their knowledge. Mindset & Skill is probably lacking too.
I can tell you without a doubt, they are NO benefit.
The ergonomics of a gun in my mind has nothing to do with the slop in any AR platform.
I can especially tell you that you wont begin to notice any of the "slop" during a actual defensive situation.
Really? How much do you want to bet that many of those using the silly ass Accu-crud are shooting Wolf ammo and have questionable AR builds? As a matter of fact they are probably the same people that have castle nuts and carrier keys that are not staked and .223 chambers and routine failures to extract.
So tell me what is a real confidence booster? A properly constructed AR made with quality parts. Or some Bubbafudd Assault Gun complete with Accu-crap, Chinese knock off optics and UTG gear?
Iraqgunz hit the nail on the head.
Ok, I'm not gonna lie: I have one, and I use it. Here's the VERY limited application:
It's in my 6.8 franken-gun. It removes the slop between the upper and lower. By removing the play, there is less of an opportunity for the slop to get in the way of accuracy at farther ranges.
My 6.8 is only for coyotes and the like. The closest I've shot at was 100yds for zero, but then it's out to 200 and farther for getting rid of the yotes.
Getting rid of the slop removes also the potential for an un-level scope, which can be the difference between a hit and a miss.
THIS IS NOT A 'FIGHTING' GUN. IT'S A HUNTING RIFLE THAT I PUT 50 ROUNDS A YEAR THROUGH.
That slop is not going to have anything to do with accuracy & yes I'm speaking from experience.
Last year for fun I was using my KAC SR-25 with a little ol 3x9 compact Leopold scope to deer hunt with. There is slop in my SR-25 rig... But I'm gonna tell you right now, it doesn't affect accuracy. That S.O.B. was a absolute Tack driver, even out to 400 yards from prone or a bench using bonded soft points. Its extremely accurate with my Nightforce 3.5-15x50 F1 NXS & some OTMS.
Anyway, every year, I try new things while deer hunting to make things more interesting. I hunted a 2 mile wide tree nursery behind my house all season with the goal of killing a deer (preferably a good buck) at over 500 yards with nothing more than my 3-9 compact on my long range platform. Theres not a lot of room for error which is why I missed my first chance at the start of the season, missing a 8 point @ 534 yards which was all my fault.
Last day, a small 6 point came out into the field at a bait pile at 561 yards according to the range finder. Lack of accuwedge & presence of slop be damned, I made that shot, right behind the shoulder.
With a good platform from a reputable manufacture or ever a franken-gun made up of parts from a reputable manufacture, the only thing that will be likely to stand in the way of your accuracy is yourself.
My SR-15 on the other hand doesn't have a whole lot of slop, its pretty tight, but I've heard others say theirs has some play in it.
The debate of whether or not accuwedge effects accuracy should have been put to rest a long time ago, but because of stupid advertisers stating some HORSESHIT, or people who believe, without any proof, that a accuwedge helps somehow, its legend lives on.
The Legend, The Myth, The Lie... The ACCUWEDGE.
Forgive me if I call BULLSHIT on your little story.
1. If you are in the community you should know it is SEAL's not seals which are animals.
2. There is no headspace and timing check in Colt rifles.
3. When new weapons are received they are usually inspected at a depot level before they are shipped to a unit.
4. I don't understand what "setting up your rifles" like theirs has to do with anything considering most of them are not using standard issue Colt M4's. Spare your stories for the campfire or the club.
If it helps the M-4 I was issued never had a accuwedge and at the time we had to have m-4's mirroring the seals weapons due to the possibility of working with them on specific missions. I was told it was required by the seals for teams working with them to have rifles set up like theirs. I was in the armory assisting the armorer with m-9s while the armorer from aberdeen proving grounds checked head-space and timing on the rifles fresh from colt. So if the armorer wouldnt put it in, the seals wont put it in its a good point to me to leave it out of the rifle!
Dwsmitht343
05-19-12, 05:56
Forgive me that's what the armorer called it. Pm me and I will tell you why they weren't from a depot but delivered to the unit's headquarters on a pallet. Fresh from the factory. Sorry if I offended anyone. The point I was trying to put across is what most others have said no real need for them.
My old Colt Competition HBar came with an Accuwedge from the factory and I've shot it quite a bit that way. Both of my current ARs do not have any sort of "Slop Remover". The precision AR has a good fit between the upper & lower with no slop. The carbine has a normal amount.
I cannot recall ever, not once, noticing the the play while shooting the carbine, or handling it at the range or in the field. Nor do I notice the lack of play, or any difference it makes, when handling and shooting the precision AR.
I don't feel any shifting of the carbine's upper when grasping the forearm to shoot. I don't feel the MOE handguard shift which has even more play than the fit between the upper & lower. I do not notice the play between the CTR stock and receiver extension when I adjust the length of pull and forget to use the lock. None of the play intrudes itself on my focus while shooting
Any in spec upper can be installed on any in spec lower and it will function with no change in the POA/POI. That right there tells us the play makes no difference at all
I cannot recall ever, not once, noticing the the play while shooting the carbine, or handling it at the range or in the field.
I concur. I have a built Noveske (Noveske complete upper & homebrew Noveske lower) that feels like its loose as a goose. Insert a loaded mag and most of the wobble disappears. Start running drills and it may as well be rock solid. I measured the gap out of curiosity and the max was 0.0175". I think I remember reading that the max acceptable gap was 0.02" so it worries me not!
[QUOTE=MrSmitty;1310026] Insert a loaded mag and most of the wobble disappears. QUOTE]
Like a built in accu-wedge...lol.
RogerinTPA
05-19-12, 18:53
I guess there could be an argument made for not going to war with the wedge, but from a civilian standpoint they are a benefit. Confidence is a major factor in an individuals performance and feel is a well know aspect of firearms handling. The accuwedge improves both of those aspects.
Nonsense. Practicing the fundamentals of marksmanship will do it better, and in spades. If you need this thing to make you feel better about yourself, and think happy happy joy joy thoughts, and declares you are the MAN, have at it.
I have been using this little addition for over 15 years in one of my Colt Elite Hbars (CR6724) and have had no issues what so ever. Round count exceeds 8K now. I find it hard to believe that the material would break down in a short period of time, and suggest that "normal" weapon maintenance was not being adhered to if failures were achieved in mass over a short period. Perhaps they were Chinese knockoffs made to self destruct!
That breaks down to a little over 44 rounds per month (44.4), and is not considered "hard use" by any means. I go through 8K+ rounds, in any given year, and I consider myself on the lower end of the training spectrum.
Bad mouthing a little rubber widget. Come on. I have been shooting ar,s since colt a1 era. Since then people been slapping everything on the stick including the kitchen sink.
So have I. It doesn't mean that it was a quality, functional, or well thought out purchase either. Members tell new folks all the time not to buy shit the don't need, offer smarter, better recommendations, then are promptly blown off like a fart in a wind storm. The individual then gets severe ass pain, won't listen, makes purchase anyway, staunchly defends said purchase, while looking for validation, and gets severe ass pain again when they are gutted, cleaned and fried by members here...Then makes a childish posting, quits M4C, goes over to TOS, repost the same question, with pictures, gets the validation he's looking for, then is sung high praise for buying that BS, is welcomed with open arms, then proceeds to eviscerate M4C because the members are dicks. It's a never ending, self licking ice cream cone.
POS worthless trash. Spend your money on an extra few bullets
Bullets & Bacon
05-20-12, 19:26
Save your money and buy a strip-lula.
Jester67CA
05-21-12, 02:34
"Receiver slop" has never been a problem for me, but I've shot and field stripped a gun that had an O-ring on the pivot pin. It felt extremely solid.
If you want to fix the slop, grab a small O-Ring for 25 cents next time you're at the hardware store. This is 1/20th the price of the Accuwedge. If the slop still bothers you then sell your AR to fund treatment for your new-found OCD. (I kid.)
Is anyone really hurting that much that the difference between .25 cents and $5 is going to make or break them?
Using an o-ring has the same issues as using a wedge. They can break, should be frequently inspected, but aren't really needed.
The o-rings also won't work with all rail systems.
I think the best solution is that if the wobble is an issue, is buying a platform using a matched receiver w/o any play. Second to that, I've seen a few lowers with a sec screw drilled and tapped under the takedown pin so you could adjust it.
Jester67CA
05-21-12, 12:02
Is anyone really hurting that much that the difference between .25 cents and $5 is going to make or break them?
Using an o-ring has the same issues as using a wedge. They can break, should be frequently inspected, but aren't really needed.
The o-rings also won't work with all rail systems.
I think the best solution is that if the wobble is an issue, is buying a platform using a matched receiver w/o any play. Second to that, I've seen a few lowers with a sec screw drilled and tapped under the takedown pin so you could adjust it.
I don't use O-rings, Accuwedges, bedded receivers, or set screws. If a receiver fit is loose enough to bother me then it's probably so far out of spec that it should be replaced.
25 cents against $5 justifies itself when the piece is replaced often (as it should be). Five Accuwedges is $25. Five O-rings is pocket change.
The O-ring does not have the issue of potentially getting jammed into the trigger assembly if it fails. There are many instances of the Accuwedge doing this and is often times cited as the primary reason to avoid them. Why add one more way your rifle can seize up on you? I can't think of any way that an O-ring will do anything but fall out of the rifle harmlessly if it were to break or disintegrate.
The matched receiver and set screw are both better fixes, but they're far more invasive and expensive than either the Accuwedge or O-ring. I'm not saying that this makes them poor choices, just that some people may not want them for whatever reason.
My friend bought one and besides making it a pain to undue the receivers, it just falls out and gets lost. He ended up loosing his the first few times we went to shoot. It is a waist of money
meh... I'm certainly not advocating they help accuracy or anything, but making it hard to take-down the AR.. mine don't.. I have to compress/put as little pressure on the upper anyhow. Mine don't fall out either. I suppose I could turn one of them upside-down and shake it out, but probably not.. A tight fit and gun oil takes care of that..
I don't think they're much of an issue either way really.. Just saying.. Ron
It's called "giving good advice", and is pretty much the only value of forums like this. These threads are not only read by the people that post in them, and I would rather provide decent information than recommend potentially damaging snake-oil.
This, x1000.
RogerinTPA
05-21-12, 20:12
This thread needs to be stickied as the collective opinions of M4C, as to the merits of this device, then closed as a lesson learned. New folks can be quickly directed to it by other members so it never EVER has to be brought up again.
Just wanted to post my experience as a semi-newbie to AR's (about a year experience).
My roomate who has been building AR's for a time suggested the Accuwedge to my AR. I have a Spikes lower and Rguns upper (bought used) and there is a bit of flop (is that what its called) or gap; not significant but you will notice it if you purposely twist the upper/lower receivers.
Didn't do squat. the play was still there. Not worth it IMO so I gave it back to him.
Just wanted to post my experience as a semi-newbie to AR's (about a year experience).
My roomate who has been building AR's for a time suggested the Accuwedge to my AR. I have a Spikes lower and Rguns upper (bought used) and there is a bit of flop (is that what its called) or gap; not significant but you will notice it if you purposely twist the upper/lower receivers.
Didn't do squat. the play was still there. Not worth it IMO so I gave it back to him.
Well your opinion is based on one single experience, but I've tried these wedges in many uppers, in friends uppers, probably 20 ar's total and it makes the upper and lower fit tight as f
In some cases impossible to remove the take down pin with out a punch or something
No I don't think they're necessary at all and I don't use one full time
Also I think I ended up with a dpms brand wedge at one point that had to be trimmed to fit in any of the receivers - the others I've tried were the free ones that cdnn and brownells were handing out
What's kinda weird is this one actually molded it's self inside of the receiver, I'll see if I can take a pic later. Personally melty plastic things near the fcg kinda make me weary
meh... I'm certainly not advocating they help accuracy or anything, but making it hard to take-down the AR.. mine don't.. I have to compress/put as little pressure on the upper anyhow. Mine don't fall out either. I suppose I could turn one of them upside-down and shake it out, but probably not.. A tight fit and gun oil takes care of that..
I don't think they're much of an issue either way really.. Just saying.. Ron
Same experience. Put one in my colt for shits and giggles one day.
Took care of a rattle. That's about it, but it didnt bug me that mich to begin with. I push down with my thumb slightly on the area above the CH and the pin slides out like normal.
I haven't noticed any wear on it or any "detriment" to my gun and it's been in there for over a year. Nothing has eaten it away and it hasn't fallen out or fallen apart.
Honestly, if it wasn't next to the register the day I bought the pack, I probably wouldn't own them. Came in a pack of five for a buck or two. I have since lost the rest of them.
If you don't like them... Don't use them. That's pretty straight forwards if you ask me.
I've seen a few guys at my range advocating the use of these flat rubber washers instead of O-rings on the pivot pin. These flat O-shaped rubber washers can be bought in various sizes and thicknesses at Tractor Supply, and probably many other hardware stores. The ones I saw used had been modified in a way that there was a square hole in the middle of the ring, rather than a round hole. This way the rubber washer fit perfectly over the front pivot lug with and applied just barely enough force to keep things tight - whereas according to some, an o-ring or accuwedge applies enough force to wallow out the pin holes.
Again, I have not tried these rubber washers nor o-rings.. I personally have no need, my rifles that I have intended for accuracy already shoot as good as I need them to... but someone on here may find this information useful.
Well your opinion is based on one single experience, but I've tried these wedges in many uppers, in friends uppers, probably 20 ar's total and it makes the upper and lower fit tight as f
In some cases impossible to remove the take down pin with out a punch or something
No I don't think they're necessary at all and I don't use one full time
well one experience is all it takes sometimes. if it doesn't work for me, how am I going to be sold on it?
Your 20 other experiences are irrelevant to me. Just saying.
Yep, newb to the site still but long time reader bringing up an oldie. I recently installed one of these being naieve about AR slop on my Colt 6940, and now that I look at it, it's gonna come out and go back in the ziplock bag and into the misc parts box. Never had any problems with accuracy or shooting the rifle so why add something that could fail or like somebody said "contribute to wallowing out the pin holes". I think that's what concerns me the most....creating real slop other than the minimal factory play. Thanks for the positive anti-accu-wedge posts guys! :thank_you2:
Something just came in today that I think many of you pro-Accu-Wedge guys may find interesting...
I own and operate a small local gunsmithing business, specializing in long range precision rifles and precision ARs... A regular customer came in today with an AR15 he had bought at a gun show the weekend prior. He was complaining about the rifle's accuracy - or rather the lack of.. When I started stripping the rifle down (BTW it is a Daniel Defense 16" M4 style 5.56 rifle with LMT furniture and a Jard trigger), I noticed that I needed a punch to drive out the rear takedown pin... It was really in there... When it came out, and I opened the action, there sat an Accu-Wedge. It hadn't been trimmed, and you REALLY have to smash the upper and lower together to get the pin back through. This thing has been putting so much pressure on the upper and lower that the front and rear pin holes are worn in the shape of an egg - the rear lug the worst. After removing the Accuwedge, and closing the receivers without it, the pin went through effortlessly, and if you twisted the receivers, there was enough slop between the receivers to almost fit a dime in!
I personally believe that the Accuwedge caused this problem. Now, my customer is going to have to purchase a new upper, and possibly a new lower, depending on how bad out of spec it's holes are when I fit the new upper. I have an idea of drilling out the old upper's holes, and installing bushings to return the holes to .250"... probably won't work, but the upper is trash anyways, so what's there to lose?
Just a little thing to keep in mind when you stick something in your rifle to put pressure on something...
I have an idea of drilling out the old upper's holes, and installing bushings to return the holes to .250"... probably won't work, but the upper is trash anyways, so what's there to lose?
Depends how much material is left after drilling the hole out. That pin is not really loaded during use but it will see impact.
Accu Wedge? I think it's snake oil. Save your money. If upper to lower receiver slop bothers you, slip a cheap ear plug were the Accu Wedge would go.
They should be boycotted amongst the AR world...they flat out suck!
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-22-13, 19:51
I really need to invent some type of worthless device that sounds good to newbs. This working 40+ hours a week is getting old.
austing43801
01-23-13, 08:56
How about for recreational shooter we throw these in with the kns pins not needed
Not to resurrect and old thread but this came up on a Google search.
I recently bought a Colt Canada SR20.(civi verson of the C7) I live in Canada and am a civilian. I always said to myself if CC opens up sales to the public, I will get one! Pricey, but I have it now. Only a limited run of the classics before they switch to the Integrated Upper Receiver style.
It is suppose to be mil spec faithful to the Canadian Forces TDP. The barrels are suppose to be very accurate, the furniture designed for the cold and so on. Probably the best AR-15 that you can buy. The SAS uses them in the C8 version....:)
Anyway, it came with the Accuwedge, the black one. I had heard of this thing and did a Google search to determine what it is. It seems the general feeling is it is a waste. It is part of the CF TDP so they use it. I have not heard of any horror stories of them coming apart but then I have never served though I do have friends who have. If they are causing problems we probably will not hear about it either.
I did find it hard to take apart and needed a tool to remove the rear pin. I have not shot it yet either, still waiting on the registration papers to come through so I can take it to the range. (As a stipulation of my Authorization to Transport paperwork....a real get-out-of-jail-free-card... I need to have the registration paperwork as well which has not arrived in the mail....the AR-15s are restricted just like handguns and are registered and range toys only.....yes it sucks!!)
I may try an accuracy test with it in and out and see if there is any difference. As this is a range toy only it probably will not matter if it stays in or out. I am not using it for "work", though the RCMP does as do several other police forces and tac teams. I will not be hunting with it, as that is illegal. Nor will I be using it for "self defense" or "home defense" as that is not a reason for owning a firearm in Canada (brought to you by law by a Liberal Prime Minister a few decades ago....) and being restricted it must have a trigger lock AND be in the safe. No chance of me getting it into action at any rate. (My SKS can however reside next to the bed with a trigger lock on and bayonet extended...)
Anyway, just wanted to state that Colt Canada ships theirs with an Acuwedge from the factory.
Leave it in there; it won't hurt a thing... JMO
you can trim it with a box cutter if it's too difficult to remove the takedown pin
Eurodriver
12-30-14, 08:04
Anyway, just wanted to state that Colt Canada ships theirs with an Acuwedge from the factory.
Blame Canada.
Canada is the most significant reason for all of this Accu-Wedge BS (improves accuracy) in the first place. When the C7A1 was introduced it was given an Elcan and the Accuwedge at the same time. Perceived accuracy (not actual accuracy) obviously improved because of the optic that was mounted to the weapon. However, much of this accuracy improvement was credited not to the $700 optic, but the $1.49 piece of rubber that eliminated "wobble".
Canada's army can have whatever specifications it wishes, that doesn't give it legitimacy. Shooters don't make these kinds of decisions. In the case of the accuwedge, it is the doings of some General who probably hasn't finger banged a rifle in decades. Don't be offended, this behavior isn't specific to Arctic dwellers - the US Army higher-ups are guilty of it too. (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/01/gun-trouble/383508/)
Virtually every single U.S. Marine can tell you stories of OCS/MCRD M16A2s that wobbled more than Jessica Vanessa and still scored consistent hits on a 20" wide target at 500 yards. This is pretty significant given that M855 is only rated at 5 MOA. I have personally seen multiple Mk12s that had this "wobble" being fired at Pu'uloa range in Hawaii with Mk262 shoot sub MOA at 300 yards.
I can't speak to any objective evidence about whether it rounds out the takedown pin or any such thing, but I can say that there is no appreciable effect on accuracy whatsoever. I am biased, but every time I see someone with that piece of orange trash in their lower receiver I immediately think ill-informed Bubba.
Failure2Stop
12-30-14, 08:09
Blame Canada.
Canada is the most significant reason for all of this Accu-Wedge BS (improves accuracy) in the first place. When the C7A1 was introduced it was given an Elcan and the Accuwedge at the same time. Perceived accuracy (not actual accuracy) obviously improved because of the optic that was mounted to the weapon. However, much of this accuracy improvement was credited not to the $700 optic, but the $1.49 piece of rubber that eliminated "wobble".
Canada's army can have whatever specifications it wishes, that doesn't give it legitimacy. Shooters don't make these kinds of decisions. In the case of the accuwedge, it is the doings of some General who probably hasn't finger banged a rifle in decades. Don't be offended, this behavior isn't specific to Arctic dwellers - the US Army higher-ups are guilty of it too. (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/01/gun-trouble/383508/)
Virtually every single U.S. Marine can tell you stories of OCS/MCRD M16A2s that wobbled more than Jessica Vanessa and still scored consistent hits on a 20" wide target at 500 yards. This is pretty significant given that M855 is only rated at 5 MOA. I have personally seen multiple Mk12s that had this "wobble" being fired at Pu'uloa range in Hawaii with Mk262 shoot sub MOA at 300 yards.
I can't speak to any objective evidence about whether it rounds out the takedown pin or any such thing, but I can say that there is no appreciable effect on accuracy whatsoever.
Pretty much that.
This is a bit of thread drift, but related directly to one of Tango4N's comments:
If your Restricted Firearm is in a safe, it does not need to be trigger locked as well, and can have a loaded magazine in the safe, right next to the Restricted Firearm, as long as it is not attached to the firearm. Anyone who tells you anything different does not know the law. If someone chooses to do more than required by law, that is personal preference.
Regards.
Mark
99.9% of shooters, especially the 50m AR15 ballistic masturbation crowd cannot appreciate any difference in POI with a sloppy gun. So likely it won't matter or be discernible to you.
However, to say that the barrel and sights are attached and so it matter not how solid the upper and lower wobbles is contrary to piles of empirical match shooting knowledge. People who have the data points to notice sub moa shifts. There is a reason legacy bolt guns(pre chassis) were bedded, that M-14's lugged and bedded variants shot better than the non lugged, and AR15's on national teams are uber tight matched or bedded at the push pin lugs. Stock and action interface are important on the high end of performance.
Consistent recoil force and torque management matters on POI. A simple and readily acknowledged example, witnessed by a fair amount of shooters, is loading bipod legs.
Not suggesting accuwedge is the answer, but I'm not dismissive of receiver wobble in a 400m+ gun.
Dano's comments are consistent with information that I got from Dave Grimshaw, formerly of the AMU, and now with SIG Sauer. I spent a week at the SIG Academy this summer, and most of that time was spent in Dave's classes.
From tests and experiments at the AMU and SIG, including using an accuracy sled weighing several hundred pounds, they determined that upper/lower fit did have a bearing on accuracy. Possibly not enough to make any difference to most shooter/ammunition/rifle combinations, but enough for combinations at the pinnacle of the sport. The Accu-Wedge is not necessarily the answer, but the idea behind it is not an internet myth.
Of course, a few people are going to disagree with this, but until they can show me actual test data to prove otherwise, their opinions are well...well you know what they say about opinions.
Regards.
Mark
Eurodriver
12-30-14, 15:47
I think we are discussing apples and oranges. My point was that for the Canadian military to put accuwedges in their C7A1s is a complete waste of money and time, and that doesn't justify Jim Bob putting it in his AR15.
Mark and Dano, thanks for chiming in with long range precision requirements. I'm sure once you start pushing sub MOA groups for distances beyond common ranges the lower/upper fit may matter, but after seeing a wobbly Mk12 put round after round of Mk262 in a 2.5" group at 300 yards with a Hawaiian full value tradewind I could no longer justify recommending the accuwedge to anyone (because most anyone asking about it is shooting dirt clods at 100 yards or less).
I doubt it makes much difference if it is in or not. And the Canadian military does some strange things once in a while.
When I get some optics on it and can get to a range to shoot I will see if there is any difference with it in our out. I really don't think there will be, as it does not make sense.
Failure2Stop
12-30-14, 17:05
There is a difference in upper/lower fit and smooshing a piece of rubber between the rear lug and lower.
I agree that a more solid connection of the upper and lower (especially in 7.62 and such) results in more consistent/lessened movement between the upper, lower, and shooter while the projectile is still in the bore.
The issue with tightening the fit by compressing a bit of rubber is that the fit is false. The force of recoil will shift the poorly fitting upper against the takedown pin and pivot pin almost as much as if the bumper was not there to start with, though the full degree of movement is slowed down. Go to a more tightly interfaced pin/lug junction and the space simply isn't there to permit movement, which results in better precision, most readily seen with better consistency throughout the ranges of positions.
It is a fairly well known phenomena that shooting a 7.62 AR well is not as easy as a bolt gun, even if the barrel is of equal quality. Part of this is the upper to lower movement while the projectile is contained in the bore. Applying different pressure to the gun, and to different parts will result in different groups, group patterns, and group shift. This can, and should, be tracked by any shooter that is serious about performing at a higher level.
Another issue is that the upward angle of the bolt carrier in relation to the receiver extension/buffer in a sloppy upper to lower fit can cause erratic, accelerated, and unusual wear due to exacerbation of tolerance stack.
I prefer a solid upper to lower fit over a loose fit, but a loose fit over an upward pressure tensioning device.
If the fit is enough to cause me concern I prefer to simply replace worn takedown and pivot pins, use NM pins, and/or replace the upper receiver to get a snug fitting unit.
I think we are all in agreement then:
Tight upper to lower fit: can help with accuracy.
Achieving it with a bit of rubber: not so much.
Regards.
Mark
This thread amazes me, and it tells me a lot about the posters here. Seems everyone has an opinion...like something else...but nobody seems to have any data. The question was about accuracy, not some perceived lack of reliability, breaking, or going to battle. Wow people! Everyone is too lazy to run the tests...yet not too lazy to post thousands of time on the internet.
There are reasons why people glass bed the tang area of lever guns...to get a tight fit to the stock so there is no wiggle (sounds like what the wedge would help with), this will make the rifle more accurate (one less shot to shot variable which affects accuracy). Similar reasons for bedding an action to a stock...so the pressures on the action are always the same, shot to shot (sounds familiar again, like what the wedge tries to correct).
So bash away, about something you know nothing about (cuz you haven't run the test), you're just showing your ignorance. Anyone with any target experience, or experience with quality rifles, would tell you that reducing (or eliminating) rattle/wobble/looseness from ANY rifle has got to improve accuracy. Common sense just doesn't seem that common round here.
This thread amazes me, and it tells me a lot about the posters here. Seems everyone has an opinion...like something else...but nobody seems to have any data. The question was about accuracy, not some perceived lack of reliability, breaking, or going to battle. Wow people! Everyone is too lazy to run the tests...yet not too lazy to post thousands of time on the internet.
There are reasons why people glass bed the tang area of lever guns...to get a tight fit to the stock so there is no wiggle (sounds like what the wedge would help with), this will make the rifle more accurate (one less shot to shot variable which affects accuracy). Similar reasons for bedding an action to a stock...so the pressures on the action are always the same, shot to shot (sounds familiar again, like what the wedge tries to correct).
So bash away, about something you know nothing about (cuz you haven't run the test), you're just showing your ignorance. Anyone with any target experience, or experience with quality rifles, would tell you that reducing (or eliminating) rattle/wobble/looseness from ANY rifle has got to improve accuracy. Common sense just doesn't seem that common round here.
Have any data to support this?
I know what they do for my guns.
Have any data to support this?
I know what they do for my guns.
Read what I posted again...especially the middle paragraph. If you read slow enough you'll realize that these lessons, backed up by data, have been learned over the years. Check out what the bench rest crowd is doing, for starters.
I'm willing to drop the $5 and run a test prior to forming a well informed opinion. But not going to bash something without data...that would be stupid.
I have no beef in this as I do not own any accu-wedge products but honestly what is the tone for? You can just state that you have an opposing opinion and site reasons/your experiences and how it perhaps improved your rifle. No need to get nasty. Nobody personally attacked you so please do not do so to others. It is alright to disagree and debate in a civilized manner.
Read what I posted again...especially the middle paragraph. If you read slow enough you'll realize that these lessons, backed up by data, have been learned over the years. Check out what the bench rest crowd is doing, for starters.
I'm willing to drop the $5 and run a test prior to forming a well informed opinion. But not going to bash something without data...that would be stupid.
You mean that middle paragraph that discusses guns that work differently?
Are you saying that folks here haven't used one prior to forming an opinion?
But not going to bash something without data...that would be stupid.
Clearly...
it tells me a lot about the posters here...Everyone is too lazy to run the tests...yet not too lazy to post thousands of time on the internet...about something you know nothing about (cuz you haven't run the test), you're just showing your ignorance...Anyone with any target experience, or experience with quality rifles...Common sense just doesn't seem that common round here.
So much data you must have on these posters.
No need for the attitude.
Was this thread started in Sept 2011? LOL
Someone probably googled it and joined to try and show off their smarts.
Last week I concluded testing with wedges using Bushmaster, Olympic, Windham, and Rock River AR15s from my tactical weapons collection. With or without the wedge installed, bump firing at a bulls eye target at 25 yards showed no significant differences in group size. The Bushmaster and Olympic malfunctioned with a wedge, and the Windham and Rock River malfunctioned without a wedge. My data are inconclusive.
Epic. So you were bump firing at 25 yards and couldn't discern a difference in accuracy eh?
Holy crap.
Epic. So you were bump firing at 25 yards and couldn't discern a difference in accuracy eh?
Holy crap.
Absolutely stunning.
556BlackRifle
03-06-15, 01:19
Last week I concluded testing with wedges using Bushmaster, Olympic, Windham, and Rock River AR15s from my tactical weapons collection. With or without the wedge installed, bump firing at a bulls eye target at 25 yards showed no significant differences in group size. The Bushmaster and Olympic malfunctioned with a wedge, and the Windham and Rock River malfunctioned without a wedge. My data are inconclusive.
LOL.... :) Awesome report!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.