U.S. Optics Dual Focal Plane 1x4

[Singlestack Wonder]

U.S. Optics sent out an announcement on their new 1x4 Dual Focal Plane scope with daylight visible illumination.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/DFP_Specs.jpg

From U.S. Optics:

"U.S. Optics the leading manufacturer in custom rifle scopes has listened to your suggestions and we are now offering the much awaited DFP (Dual Focal Plane) line of SN-4 scopes. With this new technology you are able to have a RFP (Rear Focal Plane) reticle that acts like a red dot sight with daytime visible lit reticle. The FFP (First Focal Plane) stays proportionate to the target at any magnification, this is useful for ranging and leading moving targets.
In the 1-4X model, the 1X setting is truly 1X and allows for the merging of the sight picture and your free eye. This allows the operator to use the sight like a red dot in CQB mode, then turn the magnification to 4X for further engagements. We are also offering the DFP option on the 1.5-6X SN-4 as well.
Our new push button lit reticle module offers extremely long battery life with the automatic shut off feature. Why spend the money to buy to optics when you can have it all in one package!"

[shootist~]

It should be the cat's ass. Hope so anyway, I placed an order for the SN-4 1.5-6 DFP this morning.

[Singlestack Wonder]

It should be the cat's ass. Hope so anyway, I placed an order for the SN-4 1.5-6 DFP this morning.

Which reticle did you go with and what was the expected delivery?

[shootist~]

Choices are pretty slim right now and are the same as listed for the 1-4 on SH (with some possible small differences for a 1.5-6).

FFP: #138 Mil Scale
SFP: #137 Segmented Circle with 1 MOA Dot at 6x. I calc this to be 4 MOA at 1.5X, but Jeff thought it might be 4.5 MOA at 1.5X.
Green Illumination
Slimline Elevation
Zeroing Knob for windage - since it will spend some time on my Heavy Metal rifle, which is a FAL. (FALs don't like things hanging out over the ejection port.)
One Piece Low Ring @ .980".

I was told to expect it by Christmas, but maybe I'll get lucky.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Choices are pretty slim right now and are the same as listed for the 1-4 on SH (with some possible small differences for a 1.5-6).

FFP: #138 Mil Scale
SFP: #137 Segmented Circle with 1 MOA Dot at 6x. I calc this to be 4 MOA at 1.5X, but Jeff thought it might be 4.5 MOA at 1.5X.
Green Illumination
Slimline Elevation
Zeroing Knob for windage - since it will spend some time on my Heavy Metal rifle, which is a FAL. (FALs don't like things hanging out over the ejection port.)
One Piece Low Ring @ .980".

I was told to expect it by Christmas, but maybe I'll get lucky.

Is it your understanding that the new DFP units use a new illumination system that provides daylight visible reticles OR since the DFP reticle is in the 2nd focal plane, it will be closer to the LED emitter and be brighter than the FFP reticle but not truly daylight visible against a right background?

[chad]

The illumination is not daylight visible.

[Singlestack Wonder]

The illumination is not daylight visible.

Chad:

In the announcement sent to a member of Sniper's Hide (shown above), it states daytime visible lit reticle. If the 2FP circle/dot reticle is not daytime visible at 1x, what is the point? :(

[shootist~]

Is it your understanding that the new DFP units use a new illumination system that provides daylight visible reticles OR since the DFP reticle is in the 2nd focal plane, it will be closer to the LED emitter and be brighter than the FFP reticle but not truly daylight visible against a right background?

My expectations per the SH discussion is it's daylight visible in some conditions (so probably not in bright sunlight). I don't expect it to be a Short Dot. I was already planning to get the conventional FFP SN-4 (possibly w/o the illumination option), until I saw the 1.5-6 Dual Focal Plane was coming on-line.

[chad]

Chad:

In the announcement sent to a member of Sniper's Hide (shown above), it states daytime visible lit reticle. If the 2FP circle/dot reticle is not daytime visible at 1x, what is the point? :(

I can only speak from my experience with the scope, about six months with the prototype and a week now with a production unit. I have nothing to do with SH.

The point of the 2FP is to have that for shooting faster up close than a traditional FFP only reticle allows.

While a daylight visible dot was a desired feature, it could not be done within the confines of the design(tube, housing, reticle, LED etc) we were working with. *this is as I understand it, I'm not one of the engineers that design/build the scopes, I just shoot them*

[Singlestack Wonder]

Chad: Thanks for the information. Not sure why the advertisement stated "Daylight Visible Illumination" if thats not the case.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Here's a couple of images of the new USO's 1x4 DFP reticle:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/USO-2.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/USO-1.jpg

[ra2bach]

Here's a couple of images of the new USO's 1x4 DFP reticle:



SSW, is this yours? it seems that this is, as has been suggested in reviews of another scope, "daylight practical".

I realize there are some who insist on "aimpoint visible" reticles in their optics and that's great if you can get it. this one, however, seems to fall under the daylight practical heading and I don't see that as a bad thing. I think it's highly dependent on the design of the reticle as to how important daylight visible illum really is.

in an aimpoint, the lit part is the only reticle - lose that and you're looking through a tube... however, with a magnified optic, either 1st or 2nd focal plane, the non illuminated stadia is used, as has been since the beginning. a well designed reticle makes it easy and fast to center on a target. some, more than others...

I have used even non-illum optics in conditions from full sun to dusk and have never had a problem. the only time I have wished for illumination is against dark objects in low light, where coincidentally, a "daylight practical" reticle takes over.

to prove this point to myself, I just ran one day of a carbine class using two optics - a SWFA SS 1-4HD with T-post reticle, and a new Burris MTAC - with the illum turned off. our targets started out in full sun and by the end of the day were in deep shade. all ranges were from 25 yards and in and the targets themselves varied from white "milk bottle with a COM circle" to "badguy holding a gun". occasionally throughout the day I would turn the illum on to see if I noticed any difference. in truth, I did notice the lit reticle was more vivid but I'm not convinced it made my shooting any better/quicker. we were not under a timer so there is still some testing to do but under the conditions I was in, I didn't feel handicapped in the slightest without "aimpoint bright" reticle.

my only point here is that while some require the intensity of the Short Dot and similar scopes, I don't think the new breed of illum optics to necessarily be useless if they don't conform. I would love it if someone with more experience than I, would do some tests under a timer to see their results.

in short, even though this USO Dual Plane 1-4 is out of my budget right now, I look forward to hearing more about it as I think it represents a huge step forward in combat magnified optics...

[Singlestack Wonder]

The images are from a US Optics rep. When production ramps up, they will be providing illuminated reticle pics in bright sunlight as many have requested. As far as whether or not daylight visible illumination is required, that is an individual choice.

[Belmont31R]

I realize there are some who insist on "aimpoint visible" reticles in their optics and that's great if you can get it. this one, however, seems to fall under the daylight practical heading and I don't see that as a bad thing.



If plain black reticles were just as easy to use we could all save a lot of money buying Aimpoints if they just came with a non-illuminated black dot.


I think the difference is mostly against different back grounds where a black reticle may be harder to pick up. A dark forest for example with lots of shadows the reticle can become 'lost' against the background.


FWIW the Short-Dot illumination system was first made for hunting scopes because Europeans do a lot of hunting at night compared to Americans where hunting at night is often illegal. When the Short-Dot came out the Flash Dot illumination system was incorporated into the Short-Dot scope. And actually Aimpoint is pretty popular in Europe as far as hunting. They use T1's on bolt action rifles.

And I think the red dot is just quicker to acquire to the eye than black. I am sure you can use black in certain situations but I think it would be a lot worse in others mentioned previously.

[shootist~]

I think most of the desire for a full blown daylight visible reticle comes from people who compete (or have done so) with an open class IPSC pistol - one that's equipped with a red dot; along with those who have considerable experience with RD on a carbine.

[Belmont31R]

See in this type of situation with dark(ish) woods with dark colored animals a red dot sight provides contrast against the back ground. If they were just using black reticles it would be hard as shit to get on target nearly as fast.




http://youtu.be/pslzMze9rNk

[ra2bach]

If plain black reticles were just as easy to use we could all save a lot of money buying Aimpoints if they just came with a non-illuminated black dot.
hahahahaha...

:D



I think the difference is mostly against different back grounds where a black reticle may be harder to pick up. A dark forest for example with lots of shadows the reticle can become 'lost' against the background.



that's what I meant even if my meaning got lost in translation.

with some of the "daylight adequate or practical or whatever..." scopes, the illum will wash out on a background bright enough to overwhelm it like sunlit snow or sand, etc. but then the black reticle stands out like a non-illum scope.

but swing the gun over to aim at something dark (like a bear in deep shadow) and the illum is visible. it's all about contrast...

[Belmont31R]

hahahahaha...

:D



it's all about contrast...




Which is why its best to start with a scope that handles A-Z and keeps ticking.....;):p



BTW I do not currently own a single SB product so my opinion is not biased. If I could get the same package in 1k scope I would buy it.

[ra2bach]

Which is why its best to start with a scope that handles A-Z and keeps ticking.....;):p



BTW I do not currently own a single SB product so my opinion is not biased. If I could get the same package in 1k scope I would buy it.

while you're at it, get one for me too... :D

but a good point was made about the S&B and in the exactly one time I've held one in my grubby little paws I can see the logic - if the battery fails, the unlit portion of the reticle would be very difficult to use in gloomy conditions on 1x. in that case even a non-lit reticle sufficiently thick would work somewhat...

but take what I say with a grain of salt because as I've said, I have no experience with one and it will be a long time, if ever, that I could afford one. so until they mark these things down to the magical number you mentioned, I will have to be satisfied with the best of the rest...