View Full Version : Germany adopts G28 DMR rifle
German army just ordered several hundred militarised HK MR308 as new G28 DMR rifle in 7.62x51mm. Optics used is S&B 3-20x56 plus Aimpoint Micro T1, barrel length 420mm, mass 7.9kg (with optic and accessories). Minimum accuracy requirement was set at 1.5MOA, designated range of use was set at 600m.
German Army initially rejected HK417 as DMR rifle, due to not satisfactory accuracy (same reason why HK417 lost trial for British L129A1), but requested that HK provide COTS civilian version of HK417 (HK MR308) with match grade barrel for testing. Funny thing that HK made MR308 to be civilian match rifle, not compatible with HK417 upper/lower (German law requirements)... just to sell it back to military.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ARWmJjpugTc/TnebwK5I9lI/AAAAAAAAACo/dYdRVfbRi8U/s1600/G28_k.bmp
(http://strategie-technik.blogspot.com/2011/09/neues-zf-selbstladegewehr-g28-fur-die.html)
Belmont31R
09-21-11, 14:42
Funny how for so long the AR platform got little regard and had a bad rap. Now in different forms its being adopted left and right.
Funny how for so long the AR platform got little regard and had a bad rap. Now in different forms its being adopted left and right.
In my neighbourhood it got little regard and bad rap due to only one feature, that is not present in most of this new forms. But let's not start this all over again, shall we.
That's one really heavy looking set up ! So many shades of brown. I wonder why a more uniform color wasn't used.
Colour of receiver and scope is matched (in fact it is same colour that Afrika Korps used during WW2). Rail and buffer tube are probably titanium, so it gives different colour - but this is just wild guess.
Belmont31R
09-21-11, 16:09
Colour of receiver and scope is matched (in fact it is same colour that Afrika Korps used during WW2). Rail and buffer tube are probably titanium, so it gives different colour - but this is just wild guess.
Anodized aluminum.
Anodized aluminum.
But receiver is alu as well.... Hmmm.... maybe then it is supposed to break weapon silhouette by different shades?? :confused:
It looks like someone was playing with Photoshop...
Jk
At 17.5 lbs (7.9Kg) unloaded, this thing is retarded as a designated marksman rifle. An AIAWM system (rifle, bipod, and magazine) in 338 LM weighs less. I suspect that Germany will need to medicate their soldiers like they did their Olympic athletes in the 70's to get them to hump that thing.
Belmont31R
09-21-11, 18:06
At 17.5 lbs (7.9Kg) unloaded, this thing is retarded as a designated marksman rifle. An AIAWM system (rifle, bipod, and magazine) in 338 LM weighs less. I suspect that Germany will need to medicate their soldiers like they did their Olympic athletes in the 70's to get them to hump that thing.
The rifle as pictured has about 6lbs of crap attached to it. Easy to gain weight when you start out with a 10lb gun. I think a loaded 20RD 308 mag is a LB by itself.
Well then, let's go on a diet and start with the choice of optics. Ditch the 3-20X56 scope / T1 package and go with a Leupold MK8 or better yet S&B1-8X when it come out. There is no need for that magnification range for a weapon designed to engage targets out to 600m. Then, ditch the FMNVS which is not needed for a SDM weapon. There - that a good start.
QuietShootr
09-21-11, 19:29
Well then, let's go on a diet and start with the choice of optics. Ditch the 3-20X56 scope / T1 package and go with a Leupold MK8 or better yet S&B1-8X when it come out. There is no need for that magnification range for a weapon designed to engage targets out to 600m. Then, ditch the FMNVS which is not needed for a SDM weapon. There - that a good start.
Agreed - that optic is a ludicrous exaggeration on a 600m gun.
At 17.5 lbs (7.9Kg) unloaded, this thing is retarded as a designated marksman rifle. An AIAWM system (rifle, bipod, and magazine) in 338 LM weighs less. I suspect that Germany will need to medicate their soldiers like they did their Olympic athletes in the 70's to get them to hump that thing.
maybe Hans and Franz will be playing Afghan Duck Hunt!
That's one really heavy looking set up ! So many shades of brown. I wonder why a more uniform color wasn't used.
Germans are bigger people, so that offsets the weight consideration. :D
Just looking at the handguard, rails are missing from the front end on the sides, where it would be better to place a laser indicator/lluminator and also stopping short on the bottom, I would place the bipod more far out. Can not see any holes either for add on rails?
Looks good, basically...
The new S&B 3-20 has a 50 mm objective, not 56 mm. It is too large and heavy for this rifle, but probably the accuracy is more than enough for 800 m shots, and any good zoom optic with more than 10X is not going to be too light.
The T1 is mounted too high and has a funky mount and rings, I wonder if a 45º mount would be better.
The handguard looks innecesarily heavy and long.
I guess it will evolve into something lighter.
caelumatra
09-22-11, 10:52
Yeah that rail looks pretty silly in size and form.
I thought this was the day and age of lighter strong rails instead of solid blocks of metal lol
Yeah that rail looks pretty silly in size and form.
I thought this was the day and age of lighter strong rails instead of solid blocks of metal lol
Obviously this is that kind of weapon that has good end and bad end, so people can easily see where is bad end and that they do not want to be on bad end :jester:
I would have probably gone with either of these;
http://www.aseutra.fi/english/product/HK417_CQB-BL.jpg
http://www.aseutra.fi/english/product/HK417_CQB-BL_Short_Dot.jpg
Yes, the red dot is on the top, but I can not put it on the low left side = the large illumination turret on the Short Dot will block it.
And besides with a 1-4x or 1-8x you dont really even need it.
Its just there for competition stages where you might have close in targets followed right away by targets at 150-300 meters, dont have to waste time to adjust the magnification
mkmckinley
10-06-11, 23:06
It looks like the same "everything but the kitchen sink" approach that the US military adopted with the M110. All that stuff attached to the weapon does improve its capability but makes the weapon hard to use. For a 600m requirement that thing is way, way overkill. They could have saved a little weight on the optic and ditched that stupid T-1 mount altogether. I'm glad I don't have to carry it.
wild_wild_wes
10-14-11, 23:13
16" barrel?
Nightvisionary
11-03-11, 08:39
In my neighbourhood it got little regard and bad rap due to only one feature, that is not present in most of this new forms. But let's not start this all over again, shall we.
What feature is that?
What feature is that?
Direct gas impingement. Take in mind that our point of view was build from "the other side" experience (we got several M16s captured in Vietnam to test and asses) and different approach to employment of small arms (in favour of massive full auto fire from assault rifles of storming troops).
mebiuspower
10-11-18, 08:21
Now available in Canada.
https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/10/10/heckler-koch-g28-dmr-available-now-canada/
1.5MOA guarantee is not to match ammunition but to German military DM111A1/AB22 (FMJ) 147gr round. With match ammunition G28(Z) is sub-MOA rifle.
Don Quijote
10-11-18, 11:13
Direct gas impingement
Seems to work fine on Iraqis and Afghans.
With all it’s limitations or overbuilt features, I doubt any soldier will bitch when he gets this beast. Yes, too heavy but a sweet rig. I’d like to have one.
PB
Seems to work fine on Iraqis and Afghans.
Did you read rest of my post or just stopped there? No direct impingement rifle was going to go trough standard Warsaw Pact rifle trials (for example for shooting with muzzle clogged with sand) and be enough soldier proof for soviet conscripts. That is why it had bad rap in those parts of the world and this is what I was referring to. Yes, it will work just fine in almost any environment when properly used and maintained by well trained, preferably professional, troops. Happy?
With all it’s limitations or overbuilt features, I doubt any soldier will bitch when he gets this beast. Yes, too heavy but a sweet rig. I’d like to have one.
In it's US incarnation as M110A1 CSASS (G28E) it is much, much lighter than German issue G28. Mostly thanks to idea that M110A1 will use actual match grade ammunition to achieve required accuracy.
BTW I was recently able to shoot G28 in competition (2 albums, please excuse my poor performance, I'm predominantly run'n'gun shooter up to 100m). Rifle I used was HKs demo rifle made in 2012. It seen lots of use. This thing in this configuration weight (w/a magazine) over 15lb! Did I mention it is heavy?
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmd77PV5
https://www.flickr.com/gp/138575606@N02/18GBAK
Don Quijote
10-13-18, 14:01
No direct impingement rifle was going to go trough standard Warsaw Pact rifle trials (for example for shooting with muzzle clogged with sand) and be enough soldier proof for soviet conscripts.
RIght. Because youtube isn't full of people beating the ever living shit out of all kinds of grades of ARs including filling them with sand/mud/crap and then shooting magazine after magazine.
I also don't believe you when you say there is a rifle that can be fired with a clogged barrel and not destroy itself from overpressure.
including filling them with sand/mud/crap and then shooting magazine after magazine.
With sand/mud/water in the barrel? No. And do not try this at home, to prove your point. Eyes do not grow back.
http://www.military.com/video/guns/rifles/dont-fire-a-waterlogged-m4/1192767068001
Don Quijote
10-15-18, 08:40
With sand/mud/water in the barrel? No. And do not try this at home, to prove your point. Eyes do not grow back.
http://www.military.com/video/guns/rifles/dont-fire-a-waterlogged-m4/1192767068001
It's a marketing video...…….LOL nice proof of nothing
militarymoron
10-15-18, 09:45
Don Quijote and Montrala - you guys are saying the same thing, it looks like to me. Neither of you advocate firing a rifle with sand/mud/water in the barrel regardless of operating system, correct?
Don Quijote
10-15-18, 10:15
Don Quijote and Montrala - you guys are saying the same thing, it looks like to me. Neither of you advocate firing a rifle with sand/mud/water in the barrel regardless of operating system, correct?
I'm saying I don't believe this:
No direct impingement rifle was going to go trough standard Warsaw Pact rifle trials (for example for shooting with muzzle clogged with sand)
Because I've never seen or heard of a rifle that can be shot with an obstructed barrel and not end up unserviceable.
militarymoron
10-15-18, 10:42
I'm saying I don't believe this:
Because I've never seen or heard of a rifle that can be shot with an obstructed barrel and not end up unserviceable.
Ok, got ya. Montrala - from your statement "No direct impingement rifle was going to go through standard Warsaw Pact rifle trials (for example for shooting with muzzle clogged with sand)", is the implication that some non DI rifles were able to shoot with clogged muzzles and emerge undamaged/serviceable during the trials?
non DI rifles were able to shoot with clogged muzzles and emerge undamaged/serviceable during the trials?
Actual requirement (based on Russian requirements) was that rifle can not malfunction in way that any parts will separate from rifle or cause injury to operator in case of clogged muzzle. That was acceptance threshold. But some particular types in use were still serviceable after such test. Shooting from water was taken as granted. When we get some samples of M16s (most probably from Vietnam), they were put to same durability trials and they did not meet acceptance threshold. This was put on gas system design and built perception that this rifle is unsuitable to use within Warsaw Pact military doctrine. My original comment that Don Quijote digged out was in response to question why M16 was not regarded good rifle on this side of Steel Curtain (and in some NATO countries as well) and it was popularly attributed to DI system (even if in reality it is not as simple).
Funny thing that after Warsaw Pact ended up and we wanted to join NATO, we never officially adopted M4-ish rilfe. M4A3 and SR16 in use with our Special Forces were adopted "as is" without formal trials. Rest of out small arms (Beryl, HK416, G36, PK, UKM-2000, etc.) meet this standard (at least minimal threshold).
Because I've never seen or heard of a rifle that can be shot with an obstructed barrel and not end up unserviceable.
Back in 2011 my friend was teaching class with my rifle. What we finally found out was that he had a squib, cleared malfunction, shot clogged bulled with next one and continued to shoot. It was only after he ended class he noticed damage to the rifle. Take in mind that MR223 has full HK416A2 OTB package and 1" thick barrel.
https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk417-hq/138573-something-bad-happened-my-mr223.html
Rifle was OK and there was no visible damage to barrel and any other parts beside those described. However my friend replaced rifle for me and he kept using it for several years after that.
http://montrala.blogspot.com/2011/09/6000-rounds-later-good-bye-mr223.html
militarymoron
10-16-18, 07:15
Thanks for the reply, Montrala.
Thanks for the reply.
Anytime. I enjoy your website for long time and added wealth of knowledge to my insight form you :)
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