View Full Version : Civilians with Plate Carriers
2theXtreme
09-22-11, 22:09
How do you guys feel about civilians having plate carriers? Me being a civvy myself I see a lot of guys running them at the matches I shoot at.
Is there a real reason to own one for a guy like me?
I would want one only for when, I hate to say it, the SHTF:rolleyes: AKA mass chaos in the states and I have to defend myself from the enemy whoever it may be.
I was just curious as to what your guy's thought were. Not that I care or anything...:D
Nobody cares. Free country, free market.
Failure2Stop
09-22-11, 23:31
I have a higher opinon of dude wearing a PC (with plates) than just a chest rig.
Then again, I also think that if you think you are going to be in a gunfight you should probably protect yourself appropriately instead of carrying 600% more ammo than you will need.
But hey, I'm an opinionated dick.
For classes or matches where you're around other shooters who may or may not be as serious followers of the golden rules, I don't have a problem with it. Accidents happen, anything that will reduce your chances of a sucking chest wound aren't a bad idea when the probability increases. For SHTF, you better train your ass off with it.
Nobody cares. Free country, free market.
This X 1 million.
Apart from the very practical security offered at classes where you do NOT know or trust the people youre training with, it is my hard-earned, god damned money and if you so much as judge me for how I spend it then you can go straight to hell.
This X 1 million.
Apart from the very practical security offered at classes where you do NOT know or trust the people youre training with, it is my hard-earned, god damned money and if you so much as judge me for how I spend it then you can go straight to hell.
Yep, that's basically it in a nutshell.
I have a plate carrier, with plates, that I've worn to the last few classes, because I have a class in a month REQUIRING armor. I don't want to be THAT guy who doesn't know how to move in said armor, so I've been using the classes to get comfortable doing so.
That and I like my body as is without extra holes, and paying 1500 bucks to help keep that status quo is fine in my book.
SWATcop556
09-23-11, 11:53
But hey, I'm an opinionated dick.
Yes, yes you are. But just because you cut the bullshit and shoot straight with people doesn't make you a less loveable opinionate dick. :jester:
I don't mind for civilians to wear and run a PC. As was stated free country and all.......
I have no problem with it, its your money. I used to think something like that would be ridiculous for a civilian but now I'm more informed and understand what could happen.
It is on my list of things to have. Someday. Right now, I can't justify the expense. Having said that, hopefully nothing will happen in which I will be without......
I will for sure do a lot of research before buying. This place is a great place to start.
titsonritz
09-23-11, 22:25
I have a major ****ing problem with it...that cost that is not the ownership.
Patrick Aherne
09-23-11, 23:12
I have seen some really crappy gunhandling at matches; wear your plates.
Just don't wear it and try to shoot me while I'm in uniform and we're good. Have fun, we're not North Korea.
I guess that's really all I have to say on the issue?
2theXtreme
09-23-11, 23:54
All of these are such great points. Especially the not getting shot in the chest by a stray bullet! Makes me want to get one tomorrow.
I just dont want to look like I am trying to be military or LE when I am not. Don't want to be that guy. Nobody likes that guy. I appreciate all of the input you guys have given me. It is something I will look into.
Failure2Stop
09-24-11, 01:43
As you go about your gear buying expedition and ponderings, nibble on this:
Professionals don't make fun of the civilian dude that can shoot, has decent gear, has applicable gear, and knows what the **** he is doing with it.
The people that get embarrassed are those that don't.
Figure out how to wear it properly (plate placement, etc.), and you're already ahead of 80% of people who are issued them. Don't hang stuff off it you don't use (not just for appearance, don't because it's smarter), and from their focus on not replicating every public range stunt that makes you want to wear a plate carrier at the range to begin with.
Honestly, the best designs for civilian applications are the ones that look the least military. A relatively slick plate carrier in a solid color is cheaper and more practical than the sort of wannabe kit you're trying to avoid, so simply focusing on having the capability you need and leaving behind the weight, cost, and hassle of unneeded items.
I tried to set mine up like what Pat Rogers recommends, so just a kangaroo triple pouch, TQ, and a BFG 10-speed on the back. I'll get some photos of it later today.
I think the line gets crossed when I see folks in classes wearing full on CIRAS rigs with pouches all over it, as civilians. At some point you went from "protection" to full retard. That said, I wouldn't own armor if it weren't for a few upcoming classes, so I could go either way on NEEDING it or not.
This X 1 million.
Apart from the very practical security offered at classes where you do NOT know or trust the people youre training with, it is my hard-earned, god damned money and if you so much as judge me for how I spend it then you can go straight to hell.
This. Same basic argument applies to houses, guns, knives, prepping, etc. If people have an issue with it, they can go F^&% themselves in my book.
I tried to set mine up like what Pat Rogers recommends, so just a kangaroo triple pouch, TQ, and a BFG 10-speed on the back. I'll get some photos of it later today.
I think the line gets crossed when I see folks in classes wearing full on CIRAS rigs with pouches all over it, as civilians. At some point you went from "protection" to full retard. That said, I wouldn't own armor if it weren't for a few upcoming classes, so I could go either way on NEEDING it or not.
What's the BFG 10-speed for on the back? More mags?
The only time (that I know of) that mags on the rear of a PC would come in handy is when you are working in a team or doing a stack while clearing rooms.
What's the BFG 10-speed for on the back? More mags?
The only time (that I know of) that mags on the rear of a PC would come in handy is when you are working in a team or doing a stack while clearing rooms.
Which we'll be doing in November ;)
Which we'll be doing in November ;)
lol roger...just wondering if you keep then there full time?
Don't know your occupation tho, so you may need them there full time...
lol roger...just wondering if you keep then there full time?
Don't know your occupation tho, so you may need them there full time...
Civilian. But I keep the pouches there if need be.
There should be an article coming out soon with Pat describing WHY he sets up his PC the way he does, and 2 man teams are exactly that reason.
Civilian. But I keep the pouches there if need be.
There should be an article coming out soon with Pat describing WHY he sets up his PC the way he does, and 2 man teams are exactly that reason.
Good to know...and I just so happen to have a 10-speed layin around ;)
Civilian. But I keep the pouches there if need be.
There should be an article coming out soon with Pat describing WHY he sets up his PC the way he does, and 2 man teams are exactly that reason.
Article is out, current issue of SWAT magazine. If you put two and two together you will find a picture of me in that article....hint "rush".
Article is out, current issue of SWAT magazine. If you put two and two together you will find a picture of me in that article....hint "rush".
Pats articles are the ONLY reason I buy that mag every now and then...guess I'll be getting this months...
2theXtreme
09-24-11, 15:14
As you go about your gear buying expedition and ponderings, nibble on this:
Professionals don't make fun of the civilian dude that can shoot, has decent gear, has applicable gear, and knows what the **** he is doing with it.
The people that get embarrassed are those that don't.
Damn. Very well said. These are some great words to live by in the firearm world. I will be remembering this one for sure.
The_War_Wagon
09-24-11, 17:06
I've got a carrier, but don't need the bulkiness & weight of plates. I placed soft III-A armor inside mine. It's lighter and more flexible this way.
2theXtreme
09-24-11, 17:50
I've got a carrier, but don't need the bulkiness & weight of plates. I placed soft III-A armor inside mine. It's lighter and more flexible this way.
I thought soft plates were only meant for backers? Does running only a soft plate provide adequate protection?
misanthropist
09-24-11, 17:55
I'm a civilian and I don't own a plate carrier, although I have nothing against the idea.
I do, however, have an outrageous number of mags available on my TT MAV.
I would guess it looks a bit ridiculous to people living in countries (or states) without mag restrictions.
Up here, though, I am stuck training with 5 round mags most of the time. So I carry a stupid number of mags with me for training purposes.
Anyway, the point I am making is that even if you look like an idiot, the important thing is that you are maxing out your efficacy. Sometimes that requires you to do things that look stupid to some people.
Of course, there are lots of things that look stupid because they ARE stupid, as well. If you're doing something that looks stupid and serves no purpose, it's stupid. If you're doing something that looks stupid but serves a useful purpose, well...looks can be deceiving.
I thought soft plates were only meant for backers? Does running only a soft plate provide adequate protection?
Soft armor (IIIA) is only rated for handgun.
Hard armor is rated for rifle and is usually lvl III/IV ICW or lvl IV stand alone.
Just don't wear it and try to shoot me while I'm in uniform and we're good.
I hope nobody tries to shoot you ever. Nobody likes getting shot at. .... which is exactly the reason why some civvies own the armor in the first place.
I hope nobody tries to shoot you ever. Nobody likes getting shot at. .... which is exactly the reason why some civvies own the armor in the first place.
Well, yeah. That too. I appreciate it. :)
Like I said, we're not North Korea. If you desire to own a plate carrier, have at it!
I have a higher opinon of dude wearing a PC (with plates) than just a chest rig.
Then again, I also think that if you think you are going to be in a gunfight you should probably protect yourself appropriately instead of carrying 600% more ammo than you will need.
Professionals don't make fun of the civilian dude that can shoot, has decent gear, has applicable gear, and knows what the **** he is doing with it.
The people that get embarrassed are those that don't.
Not much to add to these. So very true.
What do you guys think of the practice of wearing a chest rig over a plate carrier? Is this redundant?
I ask because I've worn everything in one piece before in the mil and I didn't like it. I'm considering wearing a rig over a carrier for work now, and when I shoot matches for fun.
What do you guys think of the practice of wearing a chest rig over a plate carrier? Is this redundant?
I ask because I've worn everything in one piece before in the mil and I didn't like it. I'm considering wearing a rig over a carrier for work now, and when I shoot matches for fun.
You should check out the Mayflower Low-Profile Armor Carrier....here is a review (https://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_88c26jvfc7&pli=1) that should give you an idea.
How do you guys feel about civilians having plate carriers? Me being a civvy myself I see a lot of guys running them at the matches I shoot at.
Is there a real reason to own one for a guy like me?
I would want one only for when, I hate to say it, the SHTF:rolleyes: AKA mass chaos in the states and I have to defend myself from the enemy whoever it may be.
I was just curious as to what your guy's thought were. Not that I care or anything...:D
From a law enforcement POV, to me, it's the same as gun ownership. I don't care if you own a gun, or a thousand guns. I don't care if you own soft armor, plates, NVG's, etc. It's how you behave that will get a negative view from me and most of my coworkers. If you are driving through the hood at 2am with dope in the car... having those things will be a problem. If you are a law abiding citizen... do whatever makes you smile and you can afford.
As a side note, is there any way to tell if a particular vest comes with integrated, sewn in soft armor? I've been looking around at a few vests here and there, but many of them don't explicitly state that soft armor is integrated into the vest. For example, I flat out refuse to believe that Eagle's CIRAS vest costs $600 or more for just the vest and no armor. Is the price an indicator of whether or not armor is included?
Rattlehead
09-26-11, 15:04
As a side note, is there any way to tell if a particular vest comes with integrated, sewn in soft armor? I've been looking around at a few vests here and there, but many of them don't explicitly state that soft armor is integrated into the vest. For example, I flat out refuse to believe that Eagle's CIRAS vest costs $600 or more for just the vest and no armor. Is the price an indicator of whether or not armor is included?
The Eagle CIRAS is a great PC, the price fits it.
And no, it does not come with soft armor.
Failure2Stop
09-26-11, 15:58
The Eagle CIRAS is a great PC, the price fits it.
And no, it does not come with soft armor.
The Eagle CIRAS is not a plate carrier, it is a full-blown SPEAR/BALCS armor carrier.
It is way more than is needed for civilian application.
The Eagle CIRAS is not a plate carrier, it is a full-blown SPEAR/BALCS armor carrier.
It is way more than is needed for civilian application.
This...there are far more "modern" and simple designs that would better serve a civi. In fact, I may even say that the Ciras is already a little "dated"...may take flack for that one, but oh well its my opinion which just so happens to be free! ;)
I agree the CIRAS is dated, bulky and heavy. Find a light weight plate carrier that has the armor sewn into it to prevent it from moving around like in the CIRAS. I hated the CIRAS because the soft armor on the waist wings always got bunched up. I run the Eagle SPC with plates and without the cummerbund because of the added maneuverability. That extra 5 seconds that it takes you to run to the next cover position could mean life or being scavenged. I dont have side protection because I better be shooting at you or you would have to get me with my back turned.
O and unless it is against some strange law in your state it is legal to own body armor. Unless you are using it for criminal activities. Why would something that is self protecting not harming anyone else be against the law is another story.
As a side note, is there any way to tell if a particular vest comes with integrated, sewn in soft armor? I've been looking around at a few vests here and there, but many of them don't explicitly state that soft armor is integrated into the vest. For example, I flat out refuse to believe that Eagle's CIRAS vest costs $600 or more for just the vest and no armor. Is the price an indicator of whether or not armor is included?
Price doesn't reflect anything with armor, sometimes more expensive is just more expensive...
Look in to Tyr Tactical (http://tyrtactical.com/) if you want a plate carrier with soft armor, I run a PICO Plate Carrier (http://www.tyrtactical.com/products/details/armor-carriers-ballistic-vests/tyr-tactical-pico-assaulters-plate-carrier-version-1-esapi/) and added some Gamma Plus ceramic plates off eBay.
Total cost was less than <$900 not including additional pouches.
Much better design, more comfortable and less weight than my Gen 1 Diamondback Tactical FAPC w/steel plates.
I also had an Eagle Plate Carrier with ceramic plates for a while but found the lack of a cummerbund made it flop around too much and had less room for pouches so I sold it to offset the cost of getting the PICO.
US Palm has a line of Plate Carriers that seem to offer a good value for those that are on a budget. Quality is comparable to Tyr Tactical ;)
variablebinary
09-28-11, 02:39
Armor is not a bad thing. Even if you are wearing it for the first time, and shooting and moving like ass, having armor is great for adding stress, realism, and fitness.
I personally believes it improves balance and coordination as well.
I've seen my fair share of AD's, so having on armor is nice for that reason as well.
Having a plate carrier is cool.
However, you look like a boot when you add on tons of crap that you will never use.
Yea a look on youtube will show guys with stuff attached a foot long in on the front. Balance your load. Put as little as needed and remember that you have to clear entry ways and other things that can catch gear that is sticking out.
what do you think of the US Palm ASP-C Plate Carrier?
Its reasonable in cost at $399 and seems suitable for civilian use.
It is level IV and weighs 18 pounds.
https://www.uspalm.com/component/magebridge/us-palm-as-plate-carrier.html?Itemid=102
Just don't wear it and try to shoot me while I'm in uniform and we're good.
As long as you agree not to trample my rights while I'm in my house or out in public.
:D:p:D
I am a lowly civy and run plates. I also own soft armor. Nothing wrong with it and think that EVERY Civy should have both of these.
C4
I believe Tyr produces the gear for US Palm, if I overheard a rep correctly.
Price doesn't reflect anything with armor, sometimes more expensive is just more expensive...
Look in to Tyr Tactical (http://tyrtactical.com/) if you want a plate carrier with soft armor, I run a PICO Plate Carrier (http://www.tyrtactical.com/products/details/armor-carriers-ballistic-vests/tyr-tactical-pico-assaulters-plate-carrier-version-1-esapi/) and added some Gamma Plus ceramic plates off eBay.
Total cost was less than <$900 not including additional pouches.
Much better design, more comfortable and less weight than my Gen 1 Diamondback Tactical FAPC w/steel plates.
I also had an Eagle Plate Carrier with ceramic plates for a while but found the lack of a cummerbund made it flop around too much and had less room for pouches so I sold it to offset the cost of getting the PICO.
US Palm has a line of Plate Carriers that seem to offer a good value for those that are on a budget. Quality is comparable to Tyr Tactical ;)
What's the BFG 10-speed for on the back? More mags?
The only time (that I know of) that mags on the rear of a PC would come in handy is when you are working in a team or doing a stack while clearing rooms.
great place to stash another Cinch-tight or israeli too...
I am a lowly civy as well. I got the chance to run the BFG pre production rig at an EAG shoothouse in May and I liked it alot. It can be run very slick without any pouches or you can add pouches to meet your need. I now own one myself.
great place to stash another Cinch-tight or israeli too...
GREAT idea!....don't know why I was thinking so one dimensional...
As long as you agree not to trample my rights while I'm in my house or out in public.
:D:p:D
:angry:
You son of a bitch!
:lol::lol::lol::lol::D
2theXtreme
09-28-11, 18:58
What is the major differences between plates and soft armor? And why should I own both? Only thing I can figure is plates offer better protection but are heavier/cumbersome. Is this all there is to it? Or am I missing something?
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.192879,-115.243219
Belmont31R
09-28-11, 19:06
What is the major differences between plates and soft armor? And why should I own both? Only thing I can figure is plates offer better protection but are heavier/cumbersome. Is this all there is to it? Or am I missing something?
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.192879,-115.243219
Soft armor is for shrapnel and handguns.
Hard armor is for rifle rounds.
Any center fire rifle round is going to punch right through soft armor.
But hard armor (plates) will stop shrapnel, handgun, and rifle (rifle up to a limit).
The plates will protect your vital organs (to an extent) which is probably the most important thing. Plates are rigid and at least for me I never really got comfortable with them but that was probably more due to the rig than anything.
What is the major differences between plates and soft armor? And why should I own both? Only thing I can figure is plates offer better protection but are heavier/cumbersome. Is this all there is to it? Or am I missing something?
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.192879,-115.243219
My take is that you should own both so you can adapt "to the mission". As civvies, we don't have one, but you can tailor what you gear up with depending on what you need.
Hypothetical, but say you own property in a bad part of town and need to do routine visits for maintenance. Having a concealable soft armor system would be great for this.
In a societal collapse situation, you would want plates. There are plenty of people with rifles that will shoot through soft armor like it's not there.
loganp0916
09-28-11, 23:02
My take is that you should own both so you can adapt "to the mission". As civvies, we don't have one, but you can tailor what you gear up with depending on what you need.
Hypothetical, but say you own property in a bad part of town and need to do routine visits for maintenance. Having a concealable soft armor system would be great for this.
In a societal collapse situation, you would want plates. There are plenty of people with rifles that will shoot through soft armor like it's not there.
Just curious. Would a 5.56 go through soft armor that easily or are you talking about a bigger caliber.
Jeez you guys are killin me! We have already answered the questions you guys are asking in this thread but....
Please read the stickies HERE!!! (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91) "Hard Body Armor" and "Soft Body Armor".
Failure2Stop
09-28-11, 23:09
Just curious. Would a 5.56 go through soft armor that easily or are you talking about a bigger caliber.
Like it isn't even there.
Please read the stickies HERE!!! (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91) "Hard Body Armor" and "Soft Body Armor".
Yes.
Good advice.
2theXtreme
09-28-11, 23:09
Soft armor is for shrapnel and handguns.
Hard armor is for rifle rounds.
Any center fire rifle round is going to punch right through soft armor.
But hard armor (plates) will stop shrapnel, handgun, and rifle (rifle up to a limit).
The plates will protect your vital organs (to an extent) which is probably the most important thing. Plates are rigid and at least for me I never really got comfortable with them but that was probably more due to the rig than anything.
Very well explained! Thank you for that. Makes sense why both options would be wanted. If you don't mind me asking...what rig are you referring to?
Warning!!!: What you just read may contain sarcasm. Judge me accordingly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop
09-28-11, 23:20
Very well explained! Thank you for that. Makes sense why both options would be wanted. If you don't mind me asking...what rig are you referring to?
Uh, I don't think you are fully grasping this.
Armor is heavy.
Less is more. . . until you get shot.
Or at least shot somewhere you don't have covered with armor.
Armor backers (soft) are a good idea, but mostly to stop chunks of caramic from being pushed into your torso. Further, not all hard armor is created the same, and if you aren't paying top dollar, having that soft armor to reduce the effects of back-face deformation and impact force is a good idea.
A normal plate carrier, as applicable to normal people, will not have an allotment for armor other than directly behind the plate. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to back a plate with anything, since anything the soft will stop the hard will have already stopped. The only time it becomes an issue is when you have a full torso armor package (such as a CIRAS or RBAV), but that exposed soft armor doesn't mean a whole lot when everyone is shooting rifles at each other and anything that blows up close enough for the shrapnel to be a real issue will probably punch tidy holes in all the other areas of exposed skin, like your arms, legs, neck and head, that is if it doesn't just tear you apart.
Soooooo...
read stickies
get plates
get backers if applicable
get medical gear
get training
Belmont31R
09-28-11, 23:31
Very well explained! Thank you for that. Makes sense why both options would be wanted. If you don't mind me asking...what rig are you referring to?
Warning!!!: What you just read may contain sarcasm. Judge me accordingly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Standard E-Sapi plates with soft armor, side plates, groin protector, ect. Standard IBA with upgrades.
Im looking at the Crye Jumpable Carrier now. Molle on the front, back, and sides but just holds plates. Would be a lot more maneuverable, less weight, and still carry hard armor.
I can tell you its NO JOKE to have both hard and soft armor with mags, water, IFAK, and all the other shit people carry. I weighed mine in Baghdad with vest fully loaded, helmet, and rifle which came out to about 80lbs. I now have chronic back pain and I know tons of other dudes who had issues afterwards, too.
variablebinary
09-29-11, 01:31
And don't get some teeny weeny baby plate for the sake of "mobility".
Get a plate that covers as much skin as possible without impairing your capabilities.
And don't carry more than you need. When it doubt, ruck up and do a 10k in full kit. You'll learn what you really need quick fast.
2theXtreme
09-29-11, 12:02
Uh, I don't think you are fully grasping this.
Armor is heavy.
Less is more. . . until you get shot.
Or at least shot somewhere you don't have covered with armor.
Armor backers (soft) are a good idea, but mostly to stop chunks of caramic from being pushed into your torso. Further, not all hard armor is created the same, and if you aren't paying top dollar, having that soft armor to reduce the effects of back-face deformation and impact force is a good idea.
A normal plate carrier, as applicable to normal people, will not have an allotment for armor other than directly behind the plate. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to back a plate with anything, since anything the soft will stop the hard will have already stopped. The only time it becomes an issue is when you have a full torso armor package (such as a CIRAS or RBAV), but that exposed soft armor doesn't mean a whole lot when everyone is shooting rifles at each other and anything that blows up close enough for the shrapnel to be a real issue will probably punch tidy holes in all the other areas of exposed skin, like your arms, legs, neck and head, that is if it doesn't just tear you apart.
Soooooo...
read stickies
get plates
get backers if applicable
get medical gear
get training
I think you may have misunderstood my post. I was asking what PC he was using that was so uncomfortable. Which he answered.
I saw a video on some plates on SKD he shot a bunch of time with 5.56 and they remained in tact and there was no penetration through the back. The BAE systems plate. Think I may go with these when the mediums are available.
Warning!!!: What you just read may contain sarcasm. Judge me accordingly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop
09-29-11, 19:46
I think you may have misunderstood my post. I was asking what PC he was using that was so uncomfortable. Which he answered.
I was referring to this sentence:
Makes sense why both options would be wanted.
The problems of which I covered in my response above.
2theXtreme
09-30-11, 00:40
I was referring to this sentence:
The problems of which I covered in my response above.
Ah ha! Got ya! While we are on it...anybody know where I can get good quality plates for a fair price? I don't mind paying more for a better product...
Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop
09-30-11, 00:52
Ah ha! Got ya! While we are on it...anybody know where I can get good quality plates for a fair price? I don't mind paying more for a better product...
Check forum "For Sale"/Equipment Excahnge areas.
They pop up here (I think there is one available right now) from time to time.
I would also point you toward Lightfighter. Generally good gear there to be had.
2theXtreme
09-30-11, 00:54
Thank you very much! I will have to do that.
Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
Im looking at the Crye Jumpable Carrier now. Molle on the front, back, and sides but just holds plates. Would be a lot more maneuverable, less weight, and still carry hard armor.
That's the rig I'm running with the BAE SA Lvl IV plates.Very minimalistic and I like it.
And don't carry more than you need. When it doubt, ruck up and do a 10k in full kit. You'll learn what you really need quick fast.
Amen to that, I had so much stuff on my MTV when I got in country...needless to say after my first patrol I stripped almost everything off except mags and my ifak :D
I have to profess my admiration for the views on civilian armor possession in this thread. I work in a typically conservative jurisdiction and I've run into numerous officer who don't believe any civilian should have body armor. Most of the local uniform equipment shops will not sell armor without a CLEET card. One of them will, but only if you have a concealed carry permit. Most of them couldn't tell you that they guy most responsible for the soft armor they wear was a pizza delivery guy! :)
I skimmed the stickies referenced on the previous page and still have a question. What would be a good recommendation for a slick plate carrier that could be worn at least semi-unobtrusively under normal outer wear? Something that I could velcro identifiers on front and back if I need to wear it on top? I have issued soft armor, but envision the use of a plate carrier might be a good idea if responding to an active shooter scenario when out of uniform. Rapid donning would obviously be a plus. I guess attachment points to mount IFAK and extra mag pouches would add to the versatility, but only if they don't add too much weight and bulk. Last time I wore hard armor was a LONG time ago in the Corps, so I need some schooling!
I'm planning to sell some unneeded firearms in the near future. I'd say the budget would be $1500 or less, with plates and any necessary attachments. Thoughts?
nobody knows
10-01-11, 02:42
^^^^ may want to look at the WWW.tyrtactical.com pico version 3 or the mayflower sick plate carrier, and a low pro chest rig like the the BFG ten speed. With the later set up you could ware it under a wind breaker, and keep the ten speed in a active shooter bag in the trunk. Or with the pico v3 you could run a similar setup but use just the ten speed triple mag pouch. You should be able to fit that setup under a wind breaker with the mag pouch's installed at all times, as the pico v3 uses extremely thin and lightweight plates. Or course It's going to be a compromise of protection and mobility. It all depends on what level threat you are likely to face, or better yet what threat are you willing to bet you won't come up against?
An Eagle PC w/ Cummerbund would be a decent choice if you can find them. Not too expensive, it's limited supplies though.
With the cummerbund you can mount IFAKs, other pouches, etc or you can run it bare w/ just the front and back carrier to VERY quick donning. The LE Model offers velcro in front (possibly back too) for ID patches when in or out of uniform.
The entire PC is under $200, again, if you can find it.
I finally got the plates for my armor system. I own armor because I want to have the required equipment if I choose to take a shoot-house class and because I'd like to be familiar with it beforehand rather than order it last minute for a class. I also think it would be a good idea for certain shooting events.
As Randy Cain has said to me, if you wear all that crap and you can shoot well nobody will ever notice it, but if you can't shoot it's all they'll see.
Armor, IMO, is pretty far down on the list of needs for the non-LE civilian, but I understand that some people's priorities are different than my own.
I finally got the plates for my armor system. I own armor because I want to have the required equipment if I choose to take a shoot-house class and because I'd like to be familiar with it beforehand rather than order it last minute for a class. I also think it would be a good idea for certain shooting events.
As Randy Cain has said to me, if you wear all that crap and you can shoot well nobody will ever notice it, but if you can't shoot it's all they'll see.
Armor, IMO, is pretty far down on the list of needs for the non-LE civilian, but I understand that some people's priorities are different than my own.
Agreed.
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I've done a total of 3 carbine and pistol classes recently, and have worn a full armor kit-up (Velocity Systems plate carrier, ESAPI's with backers and soft IIIA cummerbund inserts) during every class. As a civilian, I don't imagine wearing armor in other than a training environment and I wear the carrier very slick. At these predominately mid-level .civ rifle classes, I'm often the only one in armor. Nobody says jack. But, I wouldn't let it bother me if they did. My duty; my burden. I've committed to decent, appropriate gear and the training to know how to run with it. I'm not asking anyone's permission.
Do I NEED armor; absolutely not. But, I choose to own and wear it. I see this as no different than my choice to carry and train to employ a tourniquet and QuikClot. Not required either, but still a smart move. If you think it's overkill for a civilian, then you have the option not to run it. No reason to belittle my decisions though.
Often, I think us regular folk are intimidated by professionals who talk down to or snicker at mere mortals. Don't buy their hype. I happen to like MultiCam - if you don't, then don't buy it. But why give me shit about it? While I'm obviously not an 'operator'; I'm no mall ninja either. I'm just a regular civilian guy who's made an investment of time and money to train with and learn to use my gear safely and effectively. In the end, I'm happy with my equipment choices and that's all that matters. Your results may vary.
http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae149/WickedWeapons/DSC_1124.jpg
2theXtreme
10-02-11, 15:54
Agreed.
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I've done a total of 3 carbine and pistol classes recently, and have worn a full armor kit-up (Velocity Systems plate carrier, ESAPI's with backers and soft IIIA cummerbund inserts) during every class. As a civilian, I don't imagine wearing armor in other than a training environment and I wear the carrier very slick. At these predominately mid-level .civ rifle classes, I'm often the only one in armor. Nobody says jack. But, I wouldn't let it bother me if they did. My duty; my burden. I've committed to decent, appropriate gear and the training to know how to run with it. I'm not asking anyone's permission.
Do I NEED armor; absolutely not. But, I choose to own and wear it. I see this as no different than my choice to carry and train to employ a tourniquet and QuikClot. Not required either, but still a smart move. If you think it's overkill for a civilian, then you have the option not to run it. No reason to belittle my decisions though.
Often, I think us regular folk are intimidated by professionals who talk down to or snicker at mere mortals. Don't buy their hype. I happen to like MultiCam - if you don't, then don't buy it. But why give me shit about it? While I'm obviously not an 'operator'; I'm no mall ninja either. I'm just a regular civilian guy who's made an investment of time and money to train with and learn to use my gear safely and effectively. In the end, I'm happy with my equipment choices and that's all that matters. Your results may vary.
http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae149/WickedWeapons/DSC_1124.jpg
Very well said and I agree with everything written! By the looks of that picture I wouldn't question anything you decided to do. One bad ass lookin' dude!
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30 cal slut
10-04-11, 08:41
If I have RO duty, or am shooting at a range open to the public ... I will have my plates on. Body armor that is visible to everyone on the flat range signals that I am serious about safe weapons handling and I am watching you. :p:eek:
Body armor that is visible to everyone on the flat range signals that I am serious about safe weapons handling and I am watching you. :p:eek:
I wish that were true. I've seen more idiots and wannabes sporting armor than I care to remember. I'm hoping my sarcasm meter is just off. If not, I'd consider something more discreet if it's really for your own protection and not just to look cool.
That being said, looking cool gets chicks so YMMV.
This is a great thread. I have learned a lot. I never thought about getting armor before. I had a minor revelation at the range the other day. If I expect to use my rifle the way that I am training then it would be stupid not to have armor. I am also pleased to see that quite a few vendors sell to people that aren't mil or LEO. If I can stop buying ammo maybe I can set aside funds to get armor.
This is a great thread. I have learned a lot. I never thought about getting armor before. I had a minor revelation at the range the other day. If I expect to use my rifle the way that I am training then it would be stupid not to have armor. I am also pleased to see that quite a few vendors sell to people that aren't mil or LEO. If I can stop buying ammo maybe I can set aside funds to get armor.
It was definitely one of my best shooting investments ever. Don't get me wrong, no replacement for being safe on the range and staying aware (we can still get shot in the head, legs, and arms on accident, and a .50 BMG laughs at a level IV stand-alone with backers) but it certainly makes me feel a lot better on the range. Not to mention I like having it in the event I'm on a two-way range some dark day.
This is a great thread. I have learned a lot. I never thought about getting armor before. I had a minor revelation at the range the other day. If I expect to use my rifle the way that I am training then it would be stupid not to have armor. I am also pleased to see that quite a few vendors sell to people that aren't mil or LEO. If I can stop buying ammo maybe I can set aside funds to get armor.
Just do what I did and become an LEO. They beat your ass into the ground in PTD and issue you body armor free of charge. :sarcastic:
variablebinary
10-07-11, 00:59
On a side not, a whole lot of these companies would cease to exist if civilians did not buy their gear.
Very few companies have the connections or volume needed to survive on LEO/MIL contracts alone
As a guy in LE, I think its great that there are civvies out there that are willing to train and purchase their own gear to either train in, prep for the zombies, home/self defense, or whatever it is that they'll use said gear for as long as it's a legal purpose. America is a country of riflemen. I think there are too many people out there that get all fussy over prepared civilians for no reason and look at them as a liability when in reality its those people who do not go looking for a fight but sure as **** bring it when the fight is brought to them. It's the same in Policing. If you are a hard charging warrior and do good safe police work and can handle your own without having 30 other officers there, then most depts kinda look at you as a liability, which is bullshit. Also who knows how far the closest police unit will be what at 0300 some scrote **** kicks your door in with ill intentions, especially in a suburban AO.
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