View Full Version : RDS position and aiming questions
Hello everyone!, I'm new to this site and need some info on how to set up a Reflex red dot site on my flat-top M-4. Well the red dot is actually a little red triangle.
1. How close do I put it to the front site?
2. Should it be placed closer to the back of the weapon?
3. When aiming should I set the bottom of the triangle on top of the front site or aligne the tip of the triangle to the top of the front site?
Thanks for the help,
Crazyotto
Whootsinator
09-25-11, 04:19
Placement on the rail is personal preference. MOST people prefer to have it as far forward as they can without bridging the gap between the upper receiver and hand guard. DO NOT bridge the gap between the receiver and hand guard.
When using an RDS, ignore the front sight. Just put the dot on your target. Thanks to Voodoo magic, you don't have to line your dot up with anything. To illustrate this, take your firearm and aim at something with your RDS. Move your head but keep the rifle still. Notice that the dot is still on the same target no matter where your head is.
Eurodriver
09-25-11, 06:01
When using an RDS, ignore the front sight. Just put the dot on your target. Thanks to Voodoo magic, you don't have to line your dot up with anything. To illustrate this, take your firearm and aim at something with your RDS. Move your head but keep the rifle still. Notice that the dot is still on the same target no matter where your head is.
This only applies at a certain distance, usually 50 yards, and beyond.
This only applies at a certain distance, usually 50 yards, and beyond.
Aimpoints are paralax free.
A quality RDS will be parallax free beyond 50 meters but (if its not some kind of cheap Chinese thing) parallax is pretty negligible down to 25 feet, and if you have a reasonably consistent head position and cheek weld, parallax wont bother you down to 10 or 12 feet.
You iron sights have nothing to do with the RDS. They are two separate sighting systems. As mentioned, ignore the front sight.
Rosco Benson
09-25-11, 08:36
2. Should it be placed closer to the back of the weapon?
Here's a link to one well-considered viewpoint on this subject.
http://www.usshootingacademy.com/CM_Files/FIGHTING%20THROUGH%20THE%20RING%20by%20Erik%20Lund.pdf
Rosco
Crow Hunter
09-25-11, 08:41
Aimpoints are paralax free.
No they aren't.
Look in your manual.
50 yards and in, there is some parallax. The closer the target gets to the front of the optic, the greater the variance.
Try it in your house if you don't believe it. Put the dot on a door knob and move your head around. The dot WILL move. Put it on something 50 yards or further out, it won't.
To the OP:
Experimentation is the only way to go. Your eyes, your head position, your gun. That is the only way to do it. Pick what works best for YOU and YOUR shooting.
No they aren't.
Look in your manual.
50 yards and in, there is some parallax. The closer the target gets to the front of the optic, the greater the variance.
Try it in your house if you don't believe it. Put the dot on a door knob and move your head around. The dot WILL move. Put it on something 50 yards or further out, it won't.
To the OP:
Experimentation is the only way to go. Your eyes, your head position, your gun. That is the only way to do it. Pick what works best for YOU and YOUR shooting.
Yes they are:
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/Micro%20T-1/
Parallax Absence of parallax -No centering required
It says it right on their product specs page.
Crow Hunter
09-25-11, 10:10
Yes they are:
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/Micro%20T-1/
Parallax Absence of parallax -No centering required
It says it right on their product specs page.
Do you own one? Have you tested it yourself?
How would you not have some parallax? It is physically impossible to not have parallax when looking through lenses. You have parallax when looking through just a glass test tube at a fluid. What do you think happens across multiple lenses, one of which is angled to reflect a LED light?
The Aimpoint spec you quoted is correct. It doesn't state a distance. At greater than 50 yards, they are "essentially" parallax free.
Just try doing a "little" bit of research man. Or quote your own experience.
Yes they are:
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/Micro%20T-1/
Parallax Absence of parallax -No centering required
It says it right on their product specs page.
No they aren't. Marketing aside, a collimated lens system is only completely parallax free at a focal point of infinity. That's just physics. From a practical standpoint, especially in a non-magnified lens system, your eye has to be pretty far off-axis for there to be any significant parallax beyond 50 meters, less so as get closer. As you may notice with your camera, the focusing difference between 50 meters and "infinity" is very small.
I have 4 aimpoint micros, I have some exposure to their product.
If you look at their front lens you will see it's canted. See my very elementary drawing below.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/Aimpoint.jpg
I'm not an engineer but they have designed it to be paralax free.
ETA: They may not be absolutely 100% paraflax free inside 25 feet but we are talking minitia at this point.
Crow Hunter
09-25-11, 11:20
I have 4 aimpoint micros, I have some exposure to their product.
If you look at their front lens you will see it's canted. See my very elementary drawing below.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/Aimpoint.jpg
I'm not an engineer but they have designed it to be paralax free.
ETA: They may not be absolutely 100% paraflax free inside 25 feet but we are talking minitia at this point.
I wasn't implying that it was significant. Only that it is there. From a practical stand point, in my experience, I notice my inability to correct for height over bore repeatably than any variation due to parallax.
That being said, we (M4carbine.net collectively) are a resource for alot of new shooters and when someone (especially someone with over 100 post) says something like "Aimpoints are parralax free", people may read it and wonder if there is something wrong with their Aimpoint. If they observe their dot moving while looking at something in their house, or notice a little variation when sighting it in at 25 yards.
We can save them (and Aimpont :D) alot of aggravation if we don't post things that might potentially misinform people and make them question the quality of their "essentially parallex free" sight.;)
You know, "With great power, comes great responsibility". You must learn to wield your high post count power wisely young M4 Jedi.:p
How close do I put it to the front site? Should it be placed closer to the back of the weapon?
Place the RDS somewhere on the actual upper receiver, not on your forend rails. In my experience no rail system is sturdy enough for optics. Exactly where you choose to place the RDS on the receiver is up to you. I like mine a bit toward the rear. Some like them forward. Just find what works for you. Remember, eye relief and field of view are NOT factors with red dot sights. They are meant to be used with both eyes open. You have a lot of flexibility.
3. When aiming should I set the bottom of the triangle on top of the front site or aligne the tip of the triangle to the top of the front site?
Your optic functions independently from your iron sights. It is not necessary to align anything. The reticle in your reflex is your sole aiming device. It is a good idea to also have a full set of iron sights (front and rear) zeroed and functioning in case your RDS fails. When you see someone talking about BUIS, this is what they mean. Back Up Iron Sights. If your AR came with a detachable carry handle, you can simply cut off the front portion, leaving the rear sight assembly intact.
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Thanks for all the replies. I will check it out this weekend. I will place the site on the flat top where it is comfortable with my shooting stance, I will ignore the front site and see where the red dot leads me.
I don't want to cut off the front site in case I ever need/want to go back to iron sites. I will need to purchase a flip up rear site to add to the flat top incase the RDS ever malfunctions.
Thanks,
Otto
Thanks for all the replies. I will check it out this weekend. I will place the site on the flat top where it is comfortable with my shooting stance, I will ignore the front site and see where the red dot leads me.
I don't want to cut off the front site in case I ever need/want to go back to iron sites. I will need to purchase a flip up rear site to add to the flat top incase the RDS ever malfunctions.
Thanks,
Otto
You should be able to sight with your irons right through the optic. Depending on the height of the mount, your irons will show up somewhere between the lower 1/3 and the dead center of the RDS window. If your barrel and/or FSB are assembled true you'll likely find that while sighting through a set of irons with the optic on, the red dot will sit more-or-less exactly on your front sight post.
If, while sighting on the target, you use both eyes open (as RDS are designed) and focus on the target, you won't even notice the front sight.
You don't mention the brand of RDS you're using...all of this presumes it's a quality optic rather than the cheaper Chinese imports.
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