View Full Version : Which kydex owb/holster.
I have was interested the phantom holster from raven concealment because of its rave reviews, but I dont want to wait nearly 4mos or more to get one. I have also heard of good reviews from Personal Security Systems and Atomic Dog as well. But I have recently looked at the Silent thunder from Garrett Industries and the Minimum Tek-Lok OWB from Kolbesons holster. I am interested in these two holster companies as well because their holsters are cant and/or ride height adjustable.
I have a Smith & Wesson M&Pc pistol that I want to use for range work and also for concealed carry.
Any of you have any experience with any of these holsters and what would you recommend.
No experience with those choices, however I do have a couple from Comp-tac and not only are they excellent holsters but the wait time is usually under a week and they are great to deal with as a company.
Just received 2 Atomic Dog holsters (both G17) in the mail today - simply an outstanding product, and well worth the wait. Thickest kydex I've seen for this style of holster; excellent retention. I'm a convert. (Thanks very much for a great product Brian!)
That said, by sheer count I have mostly Comp Tac stuff - several Minotaurs, one CTAC, one OWB paddle/belt loop (does not hug the body, by design), many Tek-Lok mag carriers - all excellent quality, but I definitely believe that one of their main selling points is their very quick turnaround time. If you need something ASAP, such as for an upcoming class, I would say that you can't miss with them.
(That said, and even though you asked about OWB, I would add that I'm not a big fan of their IWB clips - at the risk of flaming them, the angled "barbs" on the bottom edges of their clips are short and therefore prone to jumping off the bottom edges of my riggers belts during draws (or even when riding in cars) and thus don't consistently hold the holster down IWB.)
I also have a Kaluban Cloak OWB/IWB convertible, which is also pretty good (but thinner kydex than the Atomic Dog, and a bit rougher angles and finish, particularly on the loops themselves). I bought it a while ago - hopefully their turnaround (and communication) has improved. I also have "other stuff" - Safariland ALS OWB, Blade-Tech Tek-Lok OWB, etc. (Yes, even an old Serpa somewhere.) The Tek-Lok stuff is generally quite useful for classes/range days, but is perhaps less useful for CCW, given the distance that the items end up from your belt.
Summary: if you're in a rush, go with Comp-Tac or perhaps Blade-Tech. If you have a bit more time, I'd say go with Atomic Dog.
/not affiliated with anyone; YMMV
Just received 2 Atomic Dog holsters (both G17) in the mail today - simply an outstanding product, and well worth the wait. Thickest kydex I've seen for this style of holster; excellent retention. I'm a convert. (Thanks very much for a great product Brian!)
That said, by sheer count I have mostly Comp Tac stuff - several Minotaurs, one CTAC, one OWB paddle/belt loop (does not hug the body, by design), many Tek-Lok mag carriers - all excellent quality, but I definitely believe that one of their main selling points is their very quick turnaround time. If you need something ASAP, such as for an upcoming class, I would say that you can't miss with them.
(That said, and even though you asked about OWB, I would add that I'm not a big fan of their IWB clips - at the risk of flaming them, the angled "barbs" on the bottom edges of their clips are short and therefore prone to jumping off the bottom edges of my riggers belts during draws (or even when riding in cars) and thus don't consistently hold the holster down IWB.)
I also have a Kaluban Cloak OWB/IWB convertible, which is also pretty good (but thinner kydex than the Atomic Dog, and a bit rougher angles and finish, particularly on the loops themselves). I bought it a while ago - hopefully their turnaround (and communication) has improved. I also have "other stuff" - Safariland ALS OWB, Blade-Tech Tek-Lok OWB, etc. (Yes, even an old Serpa somewhere.) The Tek-Lok stuff is generally quite useful for classes/range days, but is perhaps less useful for CCW, given the distance that the items end up from your belt.
Summary: if you're in a rush, go with Comp-Tac or perhaps Blade-Tech. If you have a bit more time, I'd say go with Atomic Dog.
/not affiliated with anyone; YMMV
I agree that Comp-tac's IWB clips are not ideal. Truthfully, I really don't care for the Minotaur at all, but I do like their OWB stuff and have had good luck with it.
SWATcop556
09-27-11, 00:33
I thought Raven was all hype until I actually owned one. Bottom line is they are worth the wait. Period.
That being said several people who I hold in high regard have very favorable experiences with both Atomic dog and PSS, though I have no first hand experience with them. I'm very happy with RCS and it would have to be leaps and bounds ahead of them to get me to switch.
BTW best CS out there.
I just received a holster from Personal Security Systems. Wow, it is great. Retention is great and draw is very smooth.
I do own a Raven and it is nice, but my future holsters will come from Personal Security Systems. The OWB Pancake Attachments are a great design. I normally carry IWB and the Ultimate IWB Package is very nice. The thing just disappears.
SWATcop556
09-27-11, 09:35
With all of the praise for PSS I'm going to have to give them a shot for my next holster. You never know what you've been missing until you try something else.
I'm thinking something in an OWB model for a G19 and X300 as I've moved away from IWB carry.
I wonder if other companies are profiting from the "I need a holster for the 4-6 months before my Raven gets here" market.
I ordered a bunch of Raven stuff but wont have it for a while, waiting sucks.
With all of the praise for PSS I'm going to have to give them a shot for my next holster.
I actually really like the idea of their M.A.P.S system to link stuff together. I have a bunch of RCS stuff (and more on order), but I'm not a big fan of the Eclipse style of stacking.
I may have to come up with a jury rig way of doing that myself on the RCS stuff.
Alabama Holster company is a little known company that makes some really nice simply holsters. Designed by two guys, one LEO and one Marine. I have a OWB and IWB on order for my M&P9c.
SWATcop556
09-27-11, 12:16
I wonder if other companies are profiting from the "I need a holster for the 4-6 months before my Raven gets here" market.
I ordered a bunch of Raven stuff but wont have it for a while, waiting sucks.
I'm sure that there are but several of them are just as deserving of the business and others are cheap knock offs. Determining which is which is the hardest part.
Tek-lok design type holsters?
For those that have used this type of holster, does this holster hug the body as tight or conceal as well as the Raven, PSS or Atomic Dog?
Also what kind of cant do you guys prefer on your holsters?
I really appreciate your feedback.
The thickness of the Tek-Lok mechanism itself necessarily means that the holster or other item cannot hug the body as closely as a dedicated Raven, PSS, Atomic Dog or similar holster with molded-in loops. To be clear - the Tek-Lok is a great device, allowing you to attach (securely) and remove items (holsters, mag carriers, etc.) from a belt without removing/disconnecting the belt. For example, I have a US Grunt Gear padded belt that cannot take a holster without something like this system (or the drop-leg attachment system on, say, a Safariland 6004). Tek-Lok is perfect for situations like this, but it really doesn't work if you're trying to hug the body for CCW, due to its thickness, in my opinion.
As for cant, it's very much user and handgun specific. The butt of the gun is often what produces the most concealment problems, so one would expect that the larger the gun (more magazine capacity, double-stack vs. single-stack, 45 vs 40 vs 9), the "bigger" the problem. Body shape and size also play a huge role: overall person size vs gun dimensions, shoulder width vs. hip width, physical fitness level/muffin-top/love handles, etc.
This makes it tough to generalize (but here goes....). For on-hip positions, some forward cant (say, 10 degrees) is probably a necessity for just about everyone, assuming a non-pocket sized, non-grip chopped pistol. I find that more cant works better for me (6'3", 265 lbs, relatively long torso), so I like the depth- and cant- adjustability of the Comp-Tac IWB holsters for CCW.
There is probably no substitute for trial and error here, unfortunately. That's why so many people have "dead holster boxes" somewhere in their houses, full of the "errors" that failed the "trials".
Do all the companies currently mentioned, Raven, PSS, and Atomic Dog make consistent and quality WML holsters?
I've tried a custom kydex maker in the past (generally well regarded maker), for a straight drop Glock17/TLR1 holster, and no matter how hard I tried to break the thing in, the gun would get slightly hung up on the draw. I received two of them. The first one was so tight that I couldn't get the gun drawn even after pulling the gun (and my pants) to my armpit. I contacted the maker, he made it right, and it was replaced with a slightly less tight one (I got to keep both), but I don't think that the draw is as smooth as the Bladetech holster I'm using right now. I ended up selling the newer, better one and put the non-functional one into the holster box.
Trying to diagnose this, I believe that the holster hugs my waist tight, which cants the gun into my side. As I try to draw it up and out, the holster is still slightly canted which causes a lot of friction and doesn't allow a fast release. My belt still comes up a 1-2 inches with every draw.
I chalked it up to the fact that perhaps my body shape wasn't optimal for this holster. I have a size 31" waist.
Any suggestions from those that have been through the various makers?
I have a 31" waist as well:
I can speak to PSS gear as that is what I run. Own only WML holsters (G17 + X300, G19 + WX150, and G20 + TLR1). I have ran the G17 and G20 holsters OWB only up to this point. The G17 I have ran in classes and in doing various drills. I certainly don't go easy on it (as is the case with any of my gear). I can tell you it has been solid. Perfect amount of retention and a smooth draw.
Same goes for the G20 holster which holds my woods gun whenever I am hiking, etc. I actually took a 15ft or so fall down a bunch of gravel and landed in a river in my last trip with the holster on. The gun (and mags) stayed tight and in place. Though I ended up a little scraped up and taking a swim the holster was perfectly fine...draw/retention characteristics unaltered and the pistol still secure.
The G19 holster is my everyday carry (IWB). Admittedly, his one has had it pretty easy, but is still very comfortable to carry on a daily basis...again no complaints regarding draw.
As I said I can only speak to PSS, as that's what I run. I would highly recommend checking them out, plus their wait times are pretty good (45days), especially considering some of the other makers.
I will say this as well regarding PSS: the owner, Steve, is a great dude and will make sure you are happy with your gear. If, on the off chance, you are unhappy with any aspect of your gear...he'll have it taken care of and sent back within a day or two at most.
I just ordered a PSS holster with the IWB package based on the good info in this thread. I am going to try it both OWB and IWB.
I've only pocket carried a 642 or P3AT before, so now I am going to try the G23. Cheap holsters don't work for CCW as I found out with the G23 already. Looking forward to trying out the PSS, and when my SIL visits at Christmas compare it to his Crossbreed.
Uwe1 - Different lights require different tricks in the molding and fitting processes to get that nice amount of retention. Ideally, you want little to no friction on the gun / light - just a nice "click" in and out of the holster that a firm draw will release.
The TLR series is particularly difficult - and took a lot of time, trial, and error to perfect how to achieve that level of retention with a smooth and fast draw. Our most recent rendition of weapon light bearing Holsters (round locking tab channel vs. squared locking tab channel) has made a noticeable improvement - though the prior version was still quite good in my opinion.
Uwe1 - Different lights require different tricks in the molding and fitting processes to get that nice amount of retention. Ideally, you want little to no friction on the gun / light - just a nice "click" in and out of the holster that a firm draw will release.
The TLR series is particularly difficult - and took a lot of time, trial, and error to perfect how to achieve that level of retention with a smooth and fast draw. Our most recent rendition of weapon light bearing Holsters (round locking tab channel vs. squared locking tab channel) has made a noticeable improvement - though the prior version was still quite good in my opinion.
I figured that the different lights created unique challenges. The TLR is particularly wide and blocky.
I have been experimenting with the non-functional holster and there is a lot of friction while pushing the gun into the final retention and also shortly after drawing it. The holster appears to be dragging on the gun in multiple spots (the top edges of the slide, the ejection port, the locking nut of the WML, and various spots on the light). Reholstering literally requires wedging the WML into the holster, to widen the mouth, and pushing the gun in, hard. I was able to improve the tension a good amount by softening it up with a hair dryer, but I'm still not very satisfied with the results.
My current kydex holster experience is sparse. Besides the aforementioned custom kydex holster, I have a standard Bladetech for the G17 and a Level 2 for G17/TLR that I cut the retention off of. Both have functioned well for me. The WML version is mounted with the DOH attachment, on my BFG padded belt for training courses. I had a couple serpas when I first started shooting. They're now in the holster box.
I need a quality WML holster for dedicated pistol courses when I want to go slick. Some classes require a OWB holster. Would you recommend going with the standard belt attachments for something like the PSS WML holster? I have no intention of concealing a G17/TLR1. I'm 5'7", 140-ish, size 31 waist pants, and normally CCW a G26 in my pocket.
I have tried all the kydex holster makers mentioned in this thread and more.
The only ones I will purchase from in the future are Personal Security Systems and Comp-Tac, depending on my particular needs.
All of the previously mentioned holsters were of good to excellent quality but the difference to me is in the service and integrity of each maker. These are the factors that affect my decision on future purchases.
I ordered a Kaluban for Glock 19, black with straight drop. I wear it at 3 o'clock and it naturally cants forward some. I have to say that this holster is very comfortable. It is very well made and has the best retention. It is almost too firm for most people but just right for my preferences. This is my 2nd Kaluban. I had 3 Ravens and many of the other brands except for PSS. Eugene Yap of Kaluban seems to be catching up on the orders and the wait time is decreased tremendously especially on the more popular weapons. Raven still has the best IWB/OWB hardware of anybody I feel.
Raven or bust. I've tried some of the other companies mentioned really hoping to find a shortcut around Raven's wait time and the experiences have only made me that much more of a Raven die-hard. I had to send back every other company's holster. One company not only sent me an entirely wrong-handed kit, but the holster wouldn't even let go of the gun. I literally had to wrestle with it on the ground. It was hilarious watching my buddy try to draw from it, it was pulling his pants up so high and still never let go. Although their very responsive and understanding customer service took care of me right away, right or wrong, I could no longer trust their product to use for self defense and completely canceled the order. I felt especially dumb for straying away from Raven after their WAY above and beyond customer service has been such a help to me in the past. Sorry Raven, sometimes it's hard to wait! :rolleyes:
I forgot to mention that there is simply no comparison to Raven's attachment devices. Their new style loops, pancakes, and IWB kit are in a class of their own. Until somebody comes up with something so magically astounding and innovative, Raven won't have any real competition unless you include the few that are riding Raven's wait-time coattails.
I've used Raven and Atomic Dog...both are great.
Brian at Atomic Dog is great to deal with.
No first hand experience with PSS but seems highly rated by people who should know.
-Rainman
I hadn't seen him mentioned yet but look at Peter's Custom Holster, esp if you are looking at a dedicated OWB. I own several Ravens, Kalbun Cloak and Peters. Peters gets the most use period.
anatolian B
09-30-11, 21:31
I have owned a few of the "over the counter" kydex holsters and was not impressed. I could not be happier with my Atomic Dog holsters. Price, communication, Brian and his team are all reasons to do business with AD.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n566/gherkin73/5475a9a0-1.jpg
Another thing to keep in mind is people's perception of quality, of what constitutes great customer service, etc. are all different. I have read so many accounts of how great company X is when my experience was for shit. On the other side of the coin I have read a bunch of complaints about companies I wouldn't hesitate at all to buy from.
The point is we are all different and all have different expectations. We also hit the particular company at different times. Sometimes they are on their game, other times .... not so much. Read all the reviews then make your own decision ... or do what I do when I want to find out what I like best ... buy one or more of each, compare, then dump what doesn't work for you.
With all of the praise for PSS I'm going to have to give them a shot for my next holster. You never know what you've been missing until you try something else.
I'm thinking something in an OWB model for a G19 and X300 as I've moved away from IWB carry.
How do you get away with this in Texas??? lol
No way I can carry OWB unless its cold enough to wear a jacket and I know I'm not taking it off...
How do you get away with this in Texas??? lol
No way I can carry OWB unless its cold enough to wear a jacket and I know I'm not taking it off...
Have to agree here.
I had a mid-sized M&P .45, and use a Cross-Breed Holster. Happier with it then I was with my Comp-Tac.
ArRazorback
10-03-11, 19:12
My experience with kydex OWB has been limited to Kaluban Cloak, RCS, and Cane and Derby. After carrying either a 1911 or K-frame in leather for a few years, I made the switch over to G19s and M&Ps in kydex. My first set up came from RCS (straight drop) and was certainly not disappointing. Retention was solid, but not too tight; fit and finish were great; and the holster held the grip in nice and close and the magazine carriers allowed for a smooth draw without standing away from the body too much. Great customer service, and they are deserving of their reputation as a top tier gear builder.
Next came the Kaluban Cloak (holster only, no magazine carrier) as a gift for my brother and his M&P. A solid rig, but the finishing wasn't on par with the RCS gear- some rough, jagged edges. Granted, it was the only canted holster, but it did not seem to keep the weapon in as close as the others. Whether the difference was due to its mounting hardware or design, or was a one-off fluke, I can't say. Still, a little rounding on the edges and he has been very happy with it.
Most recently, I've found Cane and Derby, Inc. (CDI). An excellent product with superlative customer service. Everything the RCS gear did so well, the CDI seemed to do just a little bit better. While the pendulum might swing the other way for another with a different body type, the CDI stuff works extraordinarily well for me. Plus their quick on/off system is as convenient as it is secure on the belt. I recently tried their AIWB for G19. When I realized that it just wasn't for me, they accepted the exchange and even offered to take the hit on the difference in that and whatever it took to make me happy. As noted above, excellent products with excellent service.
If you're dead-set on a light-compatible rig, look to RCS or one of the others recommended above, because CDI hasn't rolled one out yet. Its pending release has been announced, and as soon as they say the word "go," they'll be getting another call from me.
I need a quality WML holster for dedicated pistol courses when I want to go slick. Some classes require a OWB holster. Would you recommend going with the standard belt attachments for something like the PSS WML holster? I have no intention of concealing a G17/TLR1. I'm 5'7", 140-ish, size 31 waist pants, and normally CCW a G26 in my pocket.
Uwe - sorry for the slow response. I sustained an injury to my right hand last week, so I'm a little behind on my emails, threads, and PMs. Our other email has been running the entire time (for future reference - incase I'm ever slow to respond, its good to try the other email).
I personally use the included standard OWB loops for most everything. I like how they conceal - so generally I like to train how I carry.
The MAMBA loops are a big favorite with a lot of people. They drop the holster a good 1"-1 1/2" lower on the body. This doesn't sound like much - but in that location a tiny amount means a big difference. I do really like those loops on mag carriers though. I think it places them in a much nicer location.
I would gauge how low your current set up rides, if you plan on running chest rigs / armor, if you have any shoulder injuries, etc. But I don't consider any attachment a must - no matter the role - outside of the standard loops. They sit as low as we can possibly allow as they are.
If you plan on running it exclusively on something like a Brokos belt or for classes only, I do have a set of loops waiting to be listed to the website especially for that purpose. They drop the holster like the MAMBA loops, but also allow the holster to sit a little bit further from the body (works very well with padded war belts - inparticular the Brokos since the attachment is made in 1.75"). I unfortunately don't have any pics of this onhand. I'll try and snap some tomorrow. A member here who goes by Steve L has a set - if you want to message him about them.
Cheers.
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-7a96-4587.jpg
Standard Loops - 1.75"
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-7b4f-94a2.jpg
MAMBAS on mag carrier
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-7b79-55ee.jpg
MAMBAS with armor
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-7bce-81e9.jpg
Pancake ride height
How do you get away with this in Texas??? lol
No way I can carry OWB unless its cold enough to wear a jacket and I know I'm not taking it off...
I carried a G19 and extra mag OWB in Atomic Dog products all summer here in the DFW area under a t-shirt and sometimes an untucked, button-up cover shirt, depending upon where I was going. I really like Atomic Dog.
My Milt Sparks VM2 is getting lonely...
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