View Full Version : 22lr Handgun
Smuckatelli
09-27-11, 18:06
I've been waiting for the Browning 1911 22 to come out but it isn't looking good.
I need to get a small pistol to start pistol marksmanship training with my two youngest (8 & 9). This will only be for marksmanship training and nothing else.
I want a pitol with a manual safety as close to a 1911 as possible and I don't want to spend a lot of time conducting clearing drills.
They have been shooting a 22lr rifle for almost two years now.
Suggestions/recommendations?
TriviaMonster
09-27-11, 18:28
There are several cheap 22lr 1911's on the market but I am not familiar with any of them as far as using them. Is the colt 22 series of 1911s out yet? I read $400-500. Kind of steep, but I'm sure its quality. Or there are the ATI, and chiappa 1911-22 for about $300.
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Here's one: http://chiappafirearms.com/products/74
I think just about anything you find will be a little big for eight and nine year olds though.
I have fond memories of learning to shoot with a Colt Huntsman (cheap version of the Woodsman). I believe you can find them for around $500, but not sure if you'd want an old gun. They have solid safeties and are very easy to shoot accurately. They also have small grips, which is a plus for kids.
Ever consider a Ruger 22/45? They're of known quality, and mimic a 1911's ergonomics pretty well.
Smuckatelli
09-27-11, 20:18
I think just about anything you find will be a little big for eight and nine year olds though.
I completely agree with you on this one, this is why the Browning 1911 22 looked so appealing to me at 85% the size of a 1911.
I can shift my wants away from a 1911 but it is a requirement that it fit' them and have a manual safety. I'm not looking at getting a pistol from them to grow into. I want one right out of the box that they can learn marksmanship from without having to do some kind of stance/grip modifications in order for them to shoot.
An Undocumented Worker
09-27-11, 22:52
I REALLY like the Browning Buckmark, however the grip may be a little large for kid sized hands.
I also really like the CZ Kadet, it's actually more accurate than my Buckmark, but again the grip is full sized.
If the Browning 1911-22 comes out before Christmas, maybe Santa will have something under the tree for em.
I would say try the Beretta U22 Neos as it has small grip, but I wasn't satisfied with it's accuracy.
I got to play with a range rental GSG 1911 22... really nice shooting pistol. That thing gets the holy hell shot out of it as a rental too, and it's holding up great. I think they're in the 350 dollar range.
ForTehNguyen
09-30-11, 22:24
I recommend the GSG 1911 .22LR as well. I have one, its a great shooter
How about a S & W model 63 or 317 "kit gun". Yes, they're revolvers, but the grips are small, they're pretty accurate and a darned handy tool for anyone.
I recommend the GSG 1911 .22LR as well. I have one, its a great shooter
yeah.. i'm not even really a 1911 guy... it's just a cool pistol! thing works great!
Alaskapopo
09-30-11, 22:39
How about a S & W model 63 or 317 "kit gun". Yes, they're revolvers, but the grips are small, they're pretty accurate and a darned handy tool for anyone.
Those are nice revolvers but do little for someone wanting to have an understudy firearm for a 1911. Great trail gun though for small game.
Pat
These look nice. I wonder if they are.
Sig 1911-22 (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-22.aspx)
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/1911-22LR-Detail-L.jpg
S&W M&P22 (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_785503_-1_757765_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/222000_01_md.jpg
Yeah, M&P .22 is like $500+ :eek:
I thought it was closer to $400. Maybe I'm wrong though.
SW-Shooter
10-02-11, 16:11
They list the M&P .22 purpose as, hell I copy and pasted directly from their website. It's manufactured by Walther, I'll pass.
Purpose: Recreational
Personal Protection-------WTF
Home Protection-------WTF
Professional / Duty-------WTF
What's wrong with Walther?
Kustom_efekt
10-02-11, 16:33
Although it's nothing remotely close to a 1911--I have a walther p22 that I absolutely love. It's also the only weapon that I take to the range every trip also. The pistol has had over 4000 rounds put thru it with only one malfunction (stovepipe)---and that was the second to last round after emptying 10 mags as quik as possible(100 rounds)
Not to mention they can be bought around here for $300 brand new
Mine is pretty awesome too.
That Chiappa 1911 is a complete waste of money. Heavy pot-metal slide in place of a good spring. For my kids I choose the Walther P-22. The changeable backstrap made it a transition gun for both my 15 yo son and 10 yo daughter. Moved on to the Ruger MKII for my son and my daughter has the P-22 all to herself. Needless to say, I haven't showed her the pink one as I don't wanna buy another. Don't lock yourself into a 1911 for the kids. There are smaller frames that feel better for kids hands.
Smuckatelli
10-10-11, 13:19
I ended up going with a Walther P22, I took it out yesterday and put 130 rounds through it. Hopefully the kids will go to the range today.
Smuckatelli
10-10-11, 17:17
I took Tomas to the range, Anna will go next week. He fired 218 rounds today, 2 bad rounds. Pistol works perfect for it's intended use. He used both DA & SA and he understands 'how' the cycle of operation. He kept the rounds spread out on the target but today's focus was on safe operation of the pistol.
I recommend the GSG 1911 .22LR as well. I have one, its a great shooter
I've seen a few good reviews of these over at 1911forum.com. Have also examined them in a local shop and they seem well made for the money. Cant' say if they're any good, but enough folks like them that I wouldn't mind trying one.
Here's what I would suggest if you don't want to try out the GSG above:
* Ruger 22/45. Suggest you get the new ones with "RP" (for "replaceable grip panels") in the model #. These are set up to let you put true 1911 grips on, and they are very similar to a 1911, great for practice. I recently mounted a Tactical Solutions PacLite barrel on mine, love mine!
* Get an Advantage Arms, or a Marvel, or a Tactical Solutions, .22 upper conversion kit for your 1911. These are a bit spendy, but very slick and let you practice with your nice 1911 frame and trigger. I have a kit myself, and it works great. Really fun to run one of these on a 1911 with a nice trigger.
Ever consider a Ruger 22/45? They're of known quality, and mimic a 1911's ergonomics pretty well.
I'm surprised there isn't more clanging support for the Ruger 22/45 (if you want to mimic the 1911 grip angle and, to a lesser extent, the ergos).
I have a Ruger Mk III (in stainless) that I adore for working on trigger fundamentals. Buying it as my first pistol ever was the best advice I ever received (and was smart enough to accept). For smaller kid-sized hands, the Mk III might work better, in fact. The only downside would be the overall weight, imho... these are pretty heavy, all-metal pistols that will weigh more than many service-caliber weapons...
The main issue that I believe you will find with many other more "tacti-cool" style .22 pistols (like the Walther P22, Sig Mosquito, and some of the 1911-framed options) is that they are far less reliable (depending on ammo choice and other mechanical factors) than the Ruger (and similar) dedicated .22 designs. Unless you want to work on malfunction clearance drills a lot with the youngsters, I think your experience may be more positive looking at some of these options even if some may perhaps perceive them as less "tacti-cool".
You might even take a look at the Ruger Mk III offering with the short barrel that handles very much like a service pistol (due to the weight and length) than the more target-oriented standard models.
Either way, good luck and have fun with the kids! :D
Kustom_efekt
10-11-11, 04:49
I'm surprised there isn't more clanging support for the Ruger 22/45 (if you want to mimic the 1911 grip angle and, to a lesser extent, the ergos).
I have a Ruger Mk III (in stainless) that I adore for working on trigger fundamentals. Buying it as my first pistol ever was the best advice I ever received (and was smart enough to accept). For smaller kid-sized hands, the Mk III might work better, in fact. The only downside would be the overall weight, imho... these are pretty heavy, all-metal pistols that will weigh more than many service-caliber weapons...
The main issue that I believe you will find with many other more "tacti-cool" style .22 pistols (like the Walther P22, Sig Mosquito, and some of the 1911-framed options) is that they are far less reliable (depending on ammo choice and other mechanical factors) than the Ruger (and similar) dedicated .22 designs. Unless you want to work on malfunction clearance drills a lot with the youngsters, I think your experience may be more positive looking at some of these options even if some may perhaps perceive them as less "tacti-cool".
You might even take a look at the Ruger Mk III offering with the short barrel that handles very much like a service pistol (due to the weight and length) than the more target-oriented standard models.
Either way, good luck and have fun with the kids! :D
No complaints with my p22--I've had one malfunction in 4000+ rounds
No complaints with my p22--I've had one malfunction in 4000+ rounds
Same general experience with my Ciener .22 upper that I run on my Springfield 1911. I don't usually recommend the Ciener--the guy who owns the company is not service oriented if you have problems--but they do for the most part run extremely well and are accurate for the price. At the same time, my Ruger 22/45's (I've owned three of them) have mostly run great, but they have had a few malfs of their own, especially with certain ammo types and when they get dirty.
My reaction is that there are very few .22 semiautos that are HIGHLY reliable with all kinds of ammo. They just aren't at the level of say, a G19. The 22/45 is a great gun, and I definitely keep one around. But I definitely wouldn't limit myself to just a 22/45 on the grounds that it'll be drastically more reliable than some other .22 semiauto. There's no guarantee that it will be.
Alaskapopo
10-11-11, 13:44
Same general experience with my Ciener .22 upper that I run on my Springfield 1911. I don't usually recommend the Ciener--the guy who owns the company is not service oriented if you have problems--but they do for the most part run extremely well and are accurate for the price. At the same time, my Ruger 22/45's (I've owned three of them) have mostly run great, but they have had a few malfs of their own, especially with certain ammo types and when they get dirty.
My reaction is that there are very few .22 semiautos that are HIGHLY reliable with all kinds of ammo. They just aren't at the level of say, a G19. The 22/45 is a great gun, and I definitely keep one around. But I definitely wouldn't limit myself to just a 22/45 on the grounds that it'll be drastically more reliable than some other .22 semiauto. There's no guarantee that it will be.
I have shot my share of Ruger Steel Challenge matches with 22 autos and I have owned a Ciner kit and a Kimber 22 upper. I also have friends with Ciner and Kimber 22 conversion kits. I will say this they suck for reliablity. The best you can hope for is to run stingers and hope to make it through a few mags without a malfunction. With most other types of ammo they just don't run. Now the Ruger autos rather it be the MK 2 or 3 or 22 45 they run and run. I have owned 4 different ruger semi auto 22's. While there are no guarantee in life my experience has shown Ruger 22's far better than the conversions. The only issue I have with the 22 45's is the heavy trigger pull and the safety that is hard to manipulate. I use a Buckmark now. I have also never seen a Jarvis and Tactical solutions kit work either. There was a Tactical solutions conversion at the last steel match I shot and the owner was swearing at it. The only one I have not seen is the Marvel. As for the 22 conversions on 1911's I have owned and seen I would throw them in a deep lake.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20pistols/IMGP3333copy.jpg
Pat
I'm not going to advertise for Ciener, like I said: I don't recommend buying them to most folks because the owner is not fun to work with if you have issues. But I will say that my sample of one, and a friend down the street who often goes to the range with me, both run them on Springfield 1911's and they have been extremely reliable, every bit as good as my Ruger 22/45's. That's a sample of two, but I do hear other more-positive-than-not feedback on Cieners in places like 1911 forums (although nobody likes the owner).
My 22/45 has run very well too, and I'd agree that a dedicated .22 semiauto, on average, is likely to be more reliable than a conversion. But I think the reliability factor with these guns is relative. IMO, the thing to remember is that really very few .22 semiautos, and I'd include the 22/45 in my experience, are going to run at the reliability level of say a Glock.
Alaskapopo
10-11-11, 14:08
I'm not going to advertise for Ciener, like I said: I don't recommend buying them to most folks because the owner is not fun to work with if you have issues. But I will say that my sample of one, and a friend down the street who often goes to the range with me, both run them on Springfield 1911's and they have been extremely reliable, every bit as good as my Ruger 22/45's. That's a sample of two, but I do hear other more-positive-than-not feedback on Cieners in places like 1911 forums (although nobody likes the owner).
My 22/45 has run very well too, and I'd agree that a dedicated .22 semiauto, on average, is likely to be more reliable than a conversion. But I think the reliability factor with these guns is relative. IMO, the thing to remember is that really very few .22 semiautos, and I'd include the 22/45 in my experience, are going to run at the reliability level of say a Glock.
Rimfires will never run as reliable as a good centerfire gun due to more tolerances in the ammunition itself. But like I said the reliablity difference I have expereinced between the conversions and the dedicated guns is huge. I like the idea of the conversions and they are fine for training purposes but they are not even reliable enough for a steel match where your worst run out of 5 is thrown out. All the gun has to do is get through 4 out of 5 strings of 5 without malfunctioning and the conversions generally can't even do that.
Pat
Smuckatelli
10-11-11, 21:27
All;
Thanks for the advise, I learned alot about 22lr pistols.
I'm good for now with the P22, appears to be a good platform to teach Tomas (9) and Anna (8) basic marksmanship with a pistol. Only 2 range trips and just under 400 rounds but they won't be attending classes anytime soon....:happy:
Good scoop from all.
From what I've heard, P22s love the Remington Golden bullets. Mine works perfectly with them.
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