View Full Version : Gas Masks
I am interested in learning more about gas masks. Brands, functionality, etc. I am not exactly sure what to even ask because I know next to nothing about them. No reason in particular besides curiosity. I tried using the search function to little avail.
Anyone have any experience with these that they can share? Or point me in the right direction?:confused:
Did you just see "Contagion" or something? :D
Actually I'm pretty curious to see the answers you get on this. My experience is limited to USMC NBC gear, in all it's glory.
Took a look at the NBC stuff and it is super expensive. Just picked up an Israeli M15 for an 1/8 of the price.
They can be expensive for a reason. You just bought the equivalent of a lever action rifle for CQB. Yeah, it worked in it's day, but there are better choices. If you researched more, you'd find that there are other masks from companies like Scott that would provide more compatibility without dealing with unknown surplus.
just a scout
09-29-11, 22:26
Let's ask the obvious question? What do you want it for? What do you want to protect against? What activities?
Let's ask the obvious question? What do you want it for? What do you want to protect against? What activities?
What do these questions have to do with the OP?
I thought I made it clear this is all out of curiosity.
They can be expensive for a reason. You just bought the equivalent of a lever action rifle for CQB. Yeah, it worked in it's day, but there are better choices. If you researched more, you'd find that there are other masks from companies like Scott that would provide more compatibility without dealing with unknown surplus.
If you read the OP, you would notice that I asked for some education, not your condescending criticism of a purchase. I am completely aware that I know jack shit about this kind of gear.
You bought an Israeli surplus gas mask. Wht type of filter does it have, how old is it, has it been opened, all these are real considerations that need to be kept in mind about NBC gear. I would not trust my life to surplus mask with questionable filters that may only be suitable for training at best. There is a reason we carry extra filters in Uncle Sugar's fun clubs. And then we can go into detection and decon kits and suits and Atropine etc, etc, etc.
You bought an Israeli surplus gas mask. Wht type of filter does it have, how old is it, has it been opened, all these are real considerations that need to be kept in mind about NBC gear. I would not trust my life to surplus mask with questionable filters that may only be suitable for training at best. There is a reason we carry extra filters in Uncle Sugar's fun clubs. And then we can go into detection and decon kits and suits and Atropine etc, etc, etc.
Once again, this is all out of SHEER CURIOSITY. I am not "trusting my life" to this stuff. I am simply curious and am seeking EDUCATION and NOT CRITISISM.
Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?
NinjaMedic
09-29-11, 23:29
Wiggity, it is a very valid question despite some of the responses.
While a wide area, high purity, chemical warfare attack by a state actor on our soil is a low likelyhood event, the possibility of accidental or intentional release of toxic industrial chemicals is much higher. These chemicals will likely present a hazard primarily when inhaled and these masks can do a very effective job of managing the consequences of these agents allowing you to remove yourself from the environment. That said, like all things, if you ever intend to purchase an Air Purifying Respirator rated for CBRN threats it will only protect you if you carry it with you, as you know. As a result you have to take a hard look at the threat environment that you live or work in and decide if is necessary for you.
At the most basic level the cartirdge is the most critical component, namely it needs to be well sealed and not exposed to the ambient air. The mask should fit you well and be in good repair as well as be in a configuration that meets your requirements. You need to be clean shaven, and trained in how to properly don it as well as understand how it will impact you.
The best escape type respirator on the market right now seems to be the AVON EH20, probably the best deal in a military style mask is the MCU-2/P although as the M50 JSGPM becomes more widely fielded I would expect to see many more M40 series masks on the market for reasonable ammounts.
Unfortunately it is a very broad topic, if you have any specific questions I am happy to try and answer them adequately, my primary job at work is to be the CBRNE/HazMat SME for my agency and I work closely with our CST and HRF. Ultimately this topic could fill its own forum or subforum if you really delve into it.
Thank you very much ninjamedic! Like I said, I realize this is a large topic with quite a history and I am not sure what I should be asking. Do you know of any informational websites or books on the subject? That might be a good place to start.
NinjaMedic
09-29-11, 23:56
Probably the most comprehensive source of information in a readily available form is from the Textbook of Military Medicine series published by the Borden Institute, of the Office of The Surgeon General, Department of the Army. Contrary to how it sounds the volumes contain an in depth look at all aspects of chemical and biological warefare and its implications including the equipment and techniques.
Medical Aspects of Chemical Warfare (http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/published_volumes/chemwarfare/chemwarfare.html)
Medical Aspects of Biological Warfare (http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/published_volumes/biological_warfare/biological.html)
OP, try here. Pretty good site with most major brands available. It may help you.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/
QuietShootr
09-30-11, 07:40
Took a look at the NBC stuff and it is super expensive. Just picked up an Israeli M15 for an 1/8 of the price.
Familiarize yourself with the symptoms of nerve agent poisoning. You're going to need it to understand what's happening to you in the last 90 seconds of your life.
Start at the top of your head and point, running downward:
1) Unexplained headache
2) Watery eyes/miosis (pinpointing of pupils)
3) Sudden runny nose
4) excessive flow of saliva
5) tightness of chest/difficulty breathing
6) stomach cramps
7) muscular twitching around exposed skin
8) involuntary urination and defecation
9) convulsions
10) death
Don't buy surplus gas masks or filters. This is like buying 1950s surplus parachutes.
ETA: I see that's been addressed already. Approvedgasmasks is a good source for non-suck gear.
I always wondered about gas masks for chemical/bio type situations and have this question (part of the reason I've never bought one)...
Does an NBC setup do you any good if you don't have a place to decontaminate after the threat?
What all is involved in decontaminating ones self?
Where I work we have guys in the field that do asbestos removal and they have a huge wash trailer that they have to go thru about 3 different stations to decon themselves, and that's just for asbestos.
QuietShootr
09-30-11, 08:53
I always wondered about gas masks for chemical/bio type situations and have this question (part of the reason I've never bought one)...
Does an NBC setup do you any good if you don't have a place to decontaminate after the threat?
What all is involved in decontaminating ones self?
Where I work we have guys in the field that do asbestos removal and they have a huge wash trailer that they have to go thru about 3 different stations to decon themselves, and that's just for asbestos.
Depends on what the contamination was. You could set up a fairly effective improvised decon station with a garden hose and garden chemical sprayer.
The asbestos thing is ****ing ridiculous. That's nothing more than liability avoidance, not actual danger.
Probably the most comprehensive source of information in a readily available form is from the Textbook of Military Medicine series published by the Borden Institute, of the Office of The Surgeon General, Department of the Army. Contrary to how it sounds the volumes contain an in depth look at all aspects of chemical and biological warefare and its implications including the equipment and techniques.
Medical Aspects of Chemical Warfare (http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/published_volumes/chemwarfare/chemwarfare.html)
Medical Aspects of Biological Warfare (http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/published_volumes/biological_warfare/biological.html)
Been doing some reading, these links are down-right awesome. A very high quality post.
OP, try here. Pretty good site with most major brands available. It may help you.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/
Informative as well, thank you.
Familiarize yourself with the symptoms of nerve agent poisoning. You're going to need it to understand what's happening to you in the last 90 seconds of your life.
Start at the top of your head and point, running downward:
1) Unexplained headache
2) Watery eyes/miosis (pinpointing of pupils)
3) Sudden runny nose
4) excessive flow of saliva
5) tightness of chest/difficulty breathing
6) stomach cramps
7) muscular twitching around exposed skin
8) involuntary urination and defecation
9) convulsions
10) death
Don't buy surplus gas masks or filters. This is like buying 1950s surplus parachutes.
ETA: I see that's been addressed already. Approvedgasmasks is a good source for non-suck gear.
http://sportscasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/picard-facepalm-300x197.jpg
please refer to posts 7&9
I work around a couple of chemicals and keep an MSA dual-cartridge face mask in my work area, just in case. Most likely threats (other than smoke) are hydrazine and ammonia, so I keep it loaded with cartridges that can handle that stuff.
Looks like this, but with purple/green & white stripe GME P-100 cartridges.
http://www.globalsafetyco.com/images/msa_respapp.png
It's not high speed low drag military gear, although it's rated to get my ass safely out of a cloud of toxic nasty stuff. Plus it accepts all kinds of off-the-shelf canisters for different contaminants, including those fancy NBC canisters*. Most mil surp gas masks won't do shit against hydrazine. Get an OSHA approved commercial respirator or face mask. They work.
* NBC catridges and a mask won't do much for you unless you're wearing full gear, anyway. If there's a spill where I am, though, I'm not going to suit up to MOPP level 4 and then take my sweet time moseying out of the danger zone? No way. Civvie MSA facemask goes on and I get out of Dodge.
I'm a certified HAZMAT Technician (http://cdp.dhs.gov/schedules/program/a.html) and I spent 8 years on SWAT using lots of different kinds of gas masks. I'm still heavily involved in training and can tell you a little about the gas masks currently in use by U.S. first responders.
The two main players in the gas mask market are MSA (http://www.msanorthamerica.com/) and Scott (https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/Pages/ProductHome.aspx?value=PRODUCTS). One of the most popular gas masks for "tactical" use is the MSA Millenium. (http://www.msaparaclete.com/catalog/product504827.html)
http://media.msanet.com/NA/USA/MSAparaclete/RespiratoryProtection/Millennium/MillenniumCBRNGasMask-Large.jpg
As you can see, it offers a wide field of vision and allows the shooter to pick which side of the mask on which he prefers to place the cartridge. This will become very important when you're trying to get anything resembling a good cheek weld. This is my favorite gas mask because you can "flex" or collapse the clear shield if you need to and still keep a good seal. This is the mask I have been using for years now. It's in wide use among SWAT, HAZMAT, and other specialized LE units. This is the same mask that has been issued to all patrol officers in the agency where I am employed.
I have used Scott gas masks in the past and while I love their SCBA masks, I didn't have good luck with their gas masks because of the "dual lense" setup and the way the cartridges interferred with my cheek weld. This was especially true for hostage rescue shots where absolute precision is called for.
Here's an example of a typical Scott gas mask:
http://www.readymaderesources.com/cart/images/uploads/SCOTT-M110-CBRN-Gas.jpg
This is the M110 CBRN mask but unlike some masks of old, you can switch sides for the filter similar to the MSA above.
Scott has other products that I have used for Haz-Mat stuff but I never used it for tactical or shooting purposes. Here's their "Promask" which I found to be a huge improvement over their previous models:
http://www.labsafety.com/images/xl/SCOTT-Promask-40-Gas-LSS-_i_LBV94216S.jpg
Hope this helps. Take care.
Doug
NinjaMedic
09-30-11, 19:34
* NBC catridges and a mask won't do much for you unless you're wearing full gear, anyway. If there's a spill where I am, though, I'm not going to suit up to MOPP level 4 and then take my sweet time moseying out of the danger zone? No way. Civvie MSA facemask goes on and I get out of Dodge.
Actually this is not completely accurate. The difficulty in properly dispersing a persistent liquid agent such as VX, effectively limits its use to state actors. Most terrorist or accidental chemical incidents which might be likely to occur, will be from a non-persistent, volatile substance, disseminated via an improvised dispersal device. Your primary routes of exposure for chemical warfare agents are going to be through the eyes and the respiratory tract. If you can protect your eyes and lungs from the chemical vapors then you have a very good chance of escaping the affected area with little to no serious effects. Of the 13 people killed in the 1995 Tokyo Subway Sarin Attack, which likely represents a worse case terrorist event, 50% of the fatalities were a result of traumatic injuries rather than direct nerve agent effects.
"Percutaneous vapor concentrations needed to produce adverse effects are significantly greater than inhalation vapor concentrations necessary to produce the same effect (for nerve agents especially, and sulfur mustard to a lesser extent). The estimated human LCt50 for agent GB vapor inhalation exposure is 35 mg-min/m3, while the estimated human LCt50 for GB percutaneous vapor exposure is 12,000 mg-min/m3"
If we stray much further from an equipment specific discussion perhaps this topic should be moved to the disaster preparedness section.
just a scout
09-30-11, 21:22
What do these questions have to do with the OP?
I thought I made it clear this is all out of curiosity.
Took a little while to get back. Excellent info on the other responses.
The reason I ask is because there is wide range of types of masks and filters. You can go from a N-95/P-100 particulate mask to get protection from dust and particulates (they're used in healthcare for protection from TB droplets) to APRs with industrial filters, WMD filters and everything in between. To PAPRs, SCBA, and other more esoteric gear like Draeger rebreathers. Hell, there's even escape hoods to give limited respiratory protection to GTFO if hit with something.
That's why I asked to before specific. BTW, IL ILEAS has gone with Avon mask while IL MABAS (fire service) has gone with the MSA Millenium. The cops say they can shoot better with the Avon and it hooks up to the SCBA system that I can't remember the name of, at the moment.
I am a HazMat Tech on a response team and an instructor.
I would love to get my hands on a couple XM50. I like the field of view over the USMC M45, but not as nice as the view of the MCU-2/P. But the newer XM50 JSGPM is the best of both worlds.
MCU-2/P:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/gasmask-MCU2P-1.jpg
M45:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/gasmask%20m45%20original-2.jpg
XM50:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/Update%20Sept/gasmask-XM50-JSGPM-1.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
QuietShootr
09-30-11, 21:40
I would love to get my hands on a couple XM50. I like the field of view over the USMC M45, but not as nice as the view of the MCU-2/P. But the newer XM50 JSGPM is the best of both worlds.
MCU-2/P:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/gasmask-MCU2P-1.jpg
M45:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/gasmask%20m45%20original-2.jpg
XM50:
http://www.specwargear.com/images/Update%20Sept/gasmask-XM50-JSGPM-1.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have an MCU-2/P, and I like it a lot. The MSA Millennium still take a proprietary cartridge, or is it NATO 40mm now? That was my only gripe with it before.
That, and the one I had's eyelens turned yellow after a couple of years in storage.
ETA: That XM50 is sexy, but the likely lack of available standard cartridges for it kills it for civilian use.
Thomas M-4
09-30-11, 22:02
QuietShootr
This Unissued MCU-2/P gas mask was used extensively during the Gulf War along side the U.S Army M17A2. The MCU-2/P was later upgraded to the MCU-2A/P when a microphone connector was added to the voice-mitter assembly. No longer in production, these masks are highly desired for their strong and tight grip as well as their super-slim lines.
Unlike the MSA advantage 1, the MCU-2/P gas mask can use a standard NATO 40mm filter, ballistic polycarbonate outer lens, and a drinking straw attachment. Six-point adjustable harness zip-pulls snug and quick releases. Also features an effective voice emitter for eased communication. These come in a full kit with a carrying bag, sealed filter, removable hard lens cover.
http://www.armygasmasks.com/Unissued-U-S-MCU-2-P-Gas-Mask-Kit-p/aaagas-163.htm
It states 40mm Nato cartridges.
QuietShootr
09-30-11, 22:09
http://www.armygasmasks.com/Unissued-U-S-MCU-2-P-Gas-Mask-Kit-p/aaagas-163.htm
It states 40mm Nato cartridges.
I know the MCU2 uses 40mm, I own one. The last time I looked at the MSA Millennium, though, it used a proprietary cartridge. If they've changed it to 40mm, that's good.
I recommend the MCU2 to anyone - it is a great shooters mask.
Thomas M-4
09-30-11, 22:43
I know the MCU2 uses 40mm, I own one. The last time I looked at the MSA Millennium, though, it used a proprietary cartridge. If they've changed it to 40mm, that's good.
I recommend the MCU2 to anyone - it is a great shooters mask.
Yes I see now. I don't know if they changed the other one.
Thank you good to know I have been considering purchasing one.
NinjaMedic
10-01-11, 01:31
My agency issues the MSA Millennium mask to all personnel and it uses a NATO standard 40mm thread for its cartridges. It is basically a copy of the Air Force issued MCU-2/p with a different rubber composition. I think it is a very good mask and quite comfortable as far as masks go.
Avon has supplied a majority of the masks used by military forces in British Commonwealth nations. The current series of masks based off of their XM50 design have been selected as the Joint Service General Purpose Mask (JSGPM) and designated the M50 (which directly replaces the M40A1 mask for ground troops) and the M51 (which directly replaces the M42A1 mask for combat vehicle crews) for military use and marketed to civilian agencies as the FM50 (though there may be some minor differences). The M50 mask features the bilateral conformal filter canisters which will result in much lower breathing resistance and be more comfortable for the average soldier when worn for extended durations at the cost of sacrificing a portion of your cheek weld.
http://www.dawsonassoc.com/Images/Avon/FM50.jpg
They also produce the C50 which is very similar but accepts standard 40mm filter canisters which you can place on the desired side for a better cheek weld although the canister port still gives you some minor standoff distance with your cheek weld.
http://www.simmonsle.com/images/avon_c50.jpg
Also under the JSGPM program they are sourcing the M53 mask to replace the previous M45 mask for Special Operations personnel. There are a couple of very interesting features of this mask. First it is issued specifically to the individual operator based not only on their size but also on their dominant hand. There is no ability to switch the filter to the other side at a later date and the advantage to this is instead of a metal port the only thing between you and the rifle stock is flexible rubber so you can achieve the best cheek weld possible. Second this mask has an adjustable exhalation valve allowing it to instantly convert from a negative pressure air purifying respirator to a positive pressure SCBA mask. They also market this mask to civilian agencies as the FM53 although the civilian version has the filter port on both sides so you can configure it depending on the employee.
http://koleso.topof.ru/files/news/2007/Avon-Rubber-M53-Protective-Mask.jpg
http://static.alstechnologies.com/images/products/cement/300/AVONSTPAPR.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2533/800xrj.jpg
militarymoron
10-01-11, 15:32
There is no ability to switch the filter to the other side at a later date and the advantage to this is instead of a metal port the only thing between you and the rifle stock is flexible rubber so you can achieve the best cheek weld possible.
the M53 has the best cheek weld for shooting i've tried in a gas mask - as ninja medic pointed out, the rubber flexes and also provides a non-slip weld on your stock.
the C50 isn't too bad with the filter on the opposite side. the filter port is plastic, so it's slippery on a stock, so i found the best way to use a rifle with it is to place the stock against the rubber part right above the filter port, and cant the weapon about 20-30 degrees, and it's pretty solid.
as a civvie, i'd pick the C50 over the M50 just because of the C50's compatibility with NATO threads, if either were available.
i did a writeup on the C50 and M53 back in 2007:
http://www.militarymorons.com/equipment/protective2.html
KiloSierra
10-04-11, 19:14
Does an NBC setup do you any good if you don't have a place to decontaminate after the threat?
What all is involved in decontaminating ones self?
Decon for most chemical warfare agents is water mixed with bleach and some other chemical. Spray it on you in enough quantity to neutralize or wash off the agent and you're decontaminated. It would probably be wise to have a change of clothes also in case the agent was absorbed into the clothing fibers.
Another thing to remember about the MSA Millenium is that there are two versions, the riot control agent version and the NBC version. The riot control agent version uses the non-NATO standardised cartridges and a different rubber composition and is not rated for NBC conditions. The NBC version uses NATO standard cartridges and is made out of a rubber composition rated for use in NBC conditions.
QuietShootr
10-04-11, 20:17
Decon for most chemical warfare agents is water mixed with bleach and some other chemical. Spray it on you in enough quantity to neutralize or wash off the agent and you're decontaminated. It would probably be wise to have a change of clothes also in case the agent was absorbed into the clothing fibers.
Another thing to remember about the MSA Millenium is that there are two versions, the riot control agent version and the NBC version. The riot control agent version uses the non-NATO standardised cartridges and a different rubber composition and is not rated for NBC conditions. The NBC version uses NATO standard cartridges and is made out of a rubber composition rated for use in NBC conditions.
Oh, THAT explains it. Well...I guess Mom and Dad are going to be all right for CS, but ****ed if they get GBd.
Well, they're old anyway.
That's a joke, kids.
just a scout
10-04-11, 20:31
Decon for most chemical warfare agents is water mixed with bleach and some other chemical. Spray it on you in enough quantity to neutralize or wash off the agent and you're decontaminated. It would probably be wise to have a change of clothes also in case the agent was absorbed into the clothing fibers.
Another thing to remember about the MSA Millenium is that there are two versions, the riot control agent version and the NBC version. The riot control agent version uses the non-NATO standardised cartridges and a different rubber composition and is not rated for NBC conditions. The NBC version uses NATO standard cartridges and is made out of a rubber composition rated for use in NBC conditions.
Uh, decon for most chemical agents is soap (think anti-bacterial Dawn or Simple Green) and lots of warm water. You can use a 5% bleach solution if you don't have anything else, 10% for equipment, 50% for a kill bucket. After that, it's AHLS for treatment of any effects if needed.
But you are right on the MSA masks, one is the Millennium rated for WMD agents and the one for CS/CN is the Advantage 1000 that looks similar.:D
When I was training CERT teams I got tired of changing M17 mask filters so I picked up an unused M40 mask with screw on filters. It allowed me to screw in one filter on each side or just one on the left side when shooting a weapon right handed. It came with the hood which I usually did not use during the training. I have a few extra chemical agent filters as well as two or three NBC filters. I still have the mask and keep it for an unusual situtation should it come up.
KiloSierra
10-05-11, 14:59
Uh, decon for most chemical agents is soap (think anti-bacterial Dawn or Simple Green) and lots of warm water. You can use a 5% bleach solution if you don't have anything else, 10% for equipment, 50% for a kill bucket. After that, it's AHLS for treatment of any effects if needed.
The former Army Chemical Corps guy who was doing the CSEPP training and the CSEPP training manuals we were given said bleach and water or military decon kits with soap and water if neither of those were available. I checked and two of the three DOD standardized decontamination solutions are bleach and water and soap and water. The other is a chemical called DS2 which used to be the standard chemical. The Air Force replaced it with soap and water and Navy replaced it with bleach and water. Bleach and soap are supposed to be effective alternatives to DS2 and significently less toxic and also do not damage equipment. Apparently the DOD tested DS2 on a M1 tank and the tank was rendered unserviceable due to the DS2 exposure.
The only NBC field manual I have(FM 3-4, 1996 revision) only list DS2 as equipment decontamination agent and the M258A1 and M291 Skin Decontamination kits for personnel and for equipment to be taken into shelters in a chemical attack. Soap and water is listed as a biological and radiological decontamination agent.
I'm looking for the field manual on decontamination(FM 3-5) to see what it says.
KiloSierra
10-05-11, 15:21
Found it.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/policy/army/fm/3-5/fm3-5.pdf
The two I have experience with are the military M40 and the MSA Millennium. Ive used the M40 a whole lot more in training when I was active duty, the MSA I dont usually get out until after I leave a room filled with CS or OC. Im looking forward to playing with the new M50 if the Natl Guard gets them before I retire in the next 8-18 years.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/Gear/DSC01145.jpg
just a scout
10-05-11, 18:36
The former Army Chemical Corps guy who was doing the CSEPP training and the CSEPP training manuals we were given said bleach and water or military decon kits with soap and water if neither of those were available. I checked and two of the three DOD standardized decontamination solutions are bleach and water and soap and water. The other is a chemical called DS2 which used to be the standard chemical. The Air Force replaced it with soap and water and Navy replaced it with bleach and water. Bleach and soap are supposed to be effective alternatives to DS2 and significently less toxic and also do not damage equipment. Apparently the DOD tested DS2 on a M1 tank and the tank was rendered unserviceable due to the DS2 exposure.
I was a 54B for while, too. AMong other things. Anyway, DS2 was horribly harsh and toxic. It was the reason everything was painted with CARC back in the day, just to stand up to the DS2.
You can use bleach and water on equipment just fine, but on people, you can cause a base burn and as much damage if you're not careful. When you're doing personnel decon, removing the clothing generally gets rid of 70-90% of the contamination. What's left can be removed with copious amounts of water. Soaps will help in the deocn process by breaking up the oils and dirt on the skin that the chemicals adhere to.
A strong enough bleach solution will neutralize most chemicals (WMD) but I wouldn't want it sprayed on my skin.
So what might be a good civilian alternative for those of us who don't have the benefit of getting the .mil stuff? I would think NBC would be desired over CS if you look at the potential for a terrorist attack. Although a more inexpensive mask geared towards civil unrest wouldn't be a bad idea either.
I would think NBC would be desired over CS if you look at the potential for a terrorist attack.
So, this is kind of a question, kind of a commentary.
IIRC, most likely scenario for a terrorist "N" attack would be a dirty bomb. The best protection would be not to inhale and not be in contact with particles. Disposable overalls would be nice =]
So a regular dust mask/filter and long sleeved clothing and a good shower shortly afterwards might be just enough. Am I right?
For chem/bio, you either have to have the appropriate filters. Civ filter are usually pretty specific, AFAIK.
In the factory enviroment I worked, we usually put a dust filter over the chem filter. Some cartridges in the market are already built like that. The dust filter helps increase the life of the chem filter.
Also, be aware that most civ filter I know have a limited timespan in use. I a prolonged shtf scenario, you might need to be stocked.
KiloSierra
10-06-11, 20:41
I was a 54B for while, too. Among other things. Anyway, DS2 was horribly harsh and toxic. It was the reason everything was painted with CARC back in the day, just to stand up to the DS2.
You can use bleach and water on equipment just fine, but on people, you can cause a base burn and as much damage if you're not careful. When you're doing personnel decon, removing the clothing generally gets rid of 70-90% of the contamination. What's left can be removed with copious amounts of water. Soaps will help in the decon process by breaking up the oils and dirt on the skin that the chemicals adhere to.
A strong enough bleach solution will neutralize most chemicals (WMD) but I wouldn't want it sprayed on my skin.
I figured what they were telling us might be wrong. When they told us we were far enough from the Pine Bluff Arsenal that we didn't have to worry about chemical vapors and only had to worry about touching contaminated people, vehicles and personal items and were told that we needed mask and didn't need the chem suits, I and everyone else in the class started to wonder. :confused:
But hey what do I know, I'm just the dum beat cop!
I've been following this thread and had a question about the Millennium masks/masks in general. Would you recommend buying a lightly used gas mask? A buddy is selling his Millennium and wants $150 for it without filters. Should I go for it?
NinjaMedic
10-12-11, 00:28
The most important thing besides whether it is in good condition or not is how well it seals to your face. Without access to quantitative fit testing you can conduct what is known as a negative pressure seal test which in essence involves you sucking the mask to your face and seeing if it maintains suction by keeping your hand over the inhalation port. This test is really intended solely to confirm a good seal when donning a properly fitting facepiece that had previously been fit tested.
The most important thing besides whether it is in good condition or not is how well it seals to your face. Without access to quantitative fit testing you can conduct what is known as a negative pressure seal test which in essence involves you sucking the mask to your face and seeing if it maintains suction by keeping your hand over the inhalation port. This test is really intended solely to confirm a good seal when donning a properly fitting facepiece that had previously been fit tested.
I saw the negative pressure seal test mentioned on MSA's FAQ page. I'll make sure I try that if it even fits.
What would you say is a good price for it?
So, this is kind of a question, kind of a commentary.
IIRC, most likely scenario for a terrorist "N" attack would be a dirty bomb. The best protection would be not to inhale and not be in contact with particles. Disposable overalls would be nice =]
So a regular dust mask/filter and long sleeved clothing and a good shower shortly afterwards might be just enough. Am I right?
For chem/bio, you either have to have the appropriate filters. Civ filter are usually pretty specific, AFAIK.
In the factory enviroment I worked, we usually put a dust filter over the chem filter. Some cartridges in the market are already built like that. The dust filter helps increase the life of the chem filter.
Also, be aware that most civ filter I know have a limited timespan in use. I a prolonged shtf scenario, you might need to be stocked.
Anything rated for NBC is going to be perfectly suitable for OC/CN/CS stuff, no need for two different types of mask or filters. I wouldnt buy more than one mask per family member unless youre setting up multiple emergency kits for your home, vehicle, and workplace for example.
ninjamedic, touched on what i was going to say.
one of the most important things to make sure one gets right, is fit. they can be a little finicky with getting a good seal. The only way to know exactly is to have it tested with pressure. they hook you up to a machine that uses negative pressure i think and it makes sure there's no leak and a proper seal. When it doesn;t work it's might just be a matter of changing it for another mask.
On the civilian side, anyone know who does test them? this would be something useful to know.
Id imagine anyplace you can get fit tested for a respirator will be able to fit test you for a full face pro mask. You can create negative pressure yourself by sealing off the can and inhaling, the mask will suck itself to your face. Make sure you are clean shaved.
QuietShootr
11-06-11, 18:59
Not to threadjack, but if anyone has any MCU-2P eyelens outserts or a carrier, I'd like to drug deal you out of them :D
just a scout
11-06-11, 19:47
You might check to see where your local fire department gets their SCBAs from. That company, usually a distributor for Scott or MSA, can usually do quantitative fit testing and fitting for a fee. Around here, it's about $60-70. Just make sure you do quantitative, hooked up to the computer, as opposed to qualitative with the hood on for your testing. For CBRN/WMD, it needs a fit factor of 200 or better per 29 CFR 1910.134.
As for the MCU-2P, try parts from the MSA Millennium mask, they might fit.
http://www.thefirestore.com/store/category.cfm/cid_78412_msa_gas_mask_accessories/
http://approvedgasmasks.com/msa-milleniumCBRN.htm
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