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View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical Basic Carbine course - 25 Sept 2011



NCPatrolAR
09-29-11, 07:01
On 25 September 2011, Larry Vickers taught his Basic Carbine class at the Trigger Time range located in Carthage, NC. There were approximately 20 shooters of varying skill levels in attendance and all seemed eager to learn.

The course started at 0830 with a short introduction by Larry Vickers, aka LAV, followed immediately by a detailed safety briefing. During the safety brief LAV covered his real world safety rules in great detail for the newer shooters that were in attendance. Once this was complete, students began the process of zeroing their carbines.

LAV began the zeroing process by discussing the pros and cons of zeroing at different distances. LAV is a firm advocate of the 100 yard zero for most shooters and this is what the students strove to achieve. Due to range limitations, students were only able to fire at a maximum distance of 50 yards after getting on paper at 25. The students were told that while their 50 yard groups should be close, it is essential to confirm their zeros at 100 as soon as possible.

After zeroing the guns, the students moved into dry fire work of the prone, seated, kneeling, and standing firing positions. Work in the prone position included use of a piece of brass on the barrel in order to maximize the importance of proper trigger control when shooting. Once dry fire work was done, the students then shot a drill that required 10 rounds fired on a bullseye target using the four firing positions with an ever-decreasing time limit. Once this was completed the shooters moved up to the seven yard line for some close-in work.

At the seven yard line, the height over bore issues of the AR series of rifles was discussed. With that, and the low ready position, covered the students began to shoot a series of shots at seven yards. After completing this, the students moved back to 10 yards and repeated the series of shots. The students moved back several more times until they were firing from low ready at 25 yards.

Following lunch, the topics of emergency reloads, alternating shots between the torso and head, and shooting on the move were covered. Virtually every block of instruction included a team drill that had the shooters shooting on a bullseye or piece of torso sized steel in order to keep the emphasis on accuracy.

Once the last drill was done, the students packed up and headed home.

Carbines and issues:

Most students used some form of AR though there were two Sig 550 series carbines used during the class. The only major issues that were encountered were with a large takedown pin equipped Colt and a privately built AR. At some point the pin on the Colt worked its way out of the receiver and was never recovered. The student borrowed one of the assistant instructors’ and continued on with the class.

The privately built gun initially had the trigger lock up on its owner during a drill. When he handed to me to look at, I noticed that his hammer spring had begun to walk its way out of the receiver. When I looked inside the gun I was able to determine that someone had installed the hammer spring incorrectly which was the cause of the pin walking. This is something I have seen occur multiple times with guns built, or worked on, by people inexperienced with the AR. After the spring was installed correctly and the pin put back in place the student didn’t have any more issues from the gun for the rest of the day.

The round count for the course was approximately 350 rounds.

NCPatrolAR
09-29-11, 07:02
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M4Guru
09-29-11, 13:41
The proficiency of this class was pretty good for a basic class, and we got to progress quickly due to that. There were a few gun issues, but overall the class went smooth. The weather cooperated and the lcoation at Trigger Time was great as always.

The previously mentioned Colt large pin lower had it's double screw back out during the 400PT Rifle Aggregate. The shooter (the winner of the previous day's pistol competition...he traveled from Puerto Rico for the weekend to shoot with LAV) shot my Larue PredatAR for the remainder of the day because we had no hope of finding that screw in the gravel. The PredatAR has really impressed me so far, I am thinking that for the price it might be the best value out there.

Some gear take-aways that some new shooters learned. This was the first time some students had run their guns and it was an excellent opportunity to see what works and what doesn't.

-As the day progressed, equipment that was not reliable or functional fell off of the guns (sometimes by learning/choice, sometimes literally). This included Sig laser/light/foregrips, mag couplers, dumb slings, etc.

-Brakes are generally always offensive, exponentially more so on a 10.5 barrel.

- Aimpoint T1s are the best thing going for nearly everyone. Eotechs that work are OK...while they work. Knock offs, deer hunting scopes, and gimmick iron sights not so much.

-PMAGs, Lancer mags, and USGI mags in good working order are generally what works. Thermolds, Sig 556 mags, CProducts, or whatever...use these and you are betting your life on something that doesn't. Even when "ABC" (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt) was the rule for buying a good gun we all knew Thermolds were substandard. Fast forward 10 years and we have more options than ever for dead reliable parts. Don't let your garbage mags cheat you out of the opportunity to shoot a bad guy.

- BAD levers...for me personally, I don't know a shooter who has used one through the duration of a class i have been teaching/assisting/participating in. I'm sure there were a couple, but I can't recall one. "****ing BAD lever...." is the quote, and I tell them all at the beginning of whatever class they will say that at some point. They tell me they have eleventy-billion rounds and it has worked flawless. Then it shits the bed, and out comes the quote. Magpul makes so much great stuff, but I cannot figure this product out for the life of me.

This class was not exception, with two extremely high quality factory built guns (Noveske N4 and BCM 16" Middy complete rifles) and an Armalite giving up the ghost in some way related to the BAD lever. Take them off, and the guns returned to 100%.

Thanks to the students for showing up with open ears and an open mind, Larry for giving another great performance and letting me assist, NCPatrolAR for his hard work assisting with the class as well, and Grey Group's training branch for their hard work putting on a great class. Pics should be up soon.

velodemon
10-01-11, 19:35
"The privately built gun initially had the trigger lock up on its owner during a drill. When he handed to me to look at, I noticed that his hammer spring had begun to walk its way out of the receiver. When I looked inside the gun I was able to determine that someone had installed the hammer spring incorrectly which was the cause of the pin walking. This is something I have seen occur multiple times with guns built, or worked on, by people inexperienced with the AR. After the spring was installed correctly and the pin put back in place the student didn’t have any more issues from the gun for the rest of the day."

Uggh! That was me. I can't thank you enough for getting me back up and running so quickly. I really enjoyed this class and learned a ton...not to mention how to make sure the hammer spring is in correctly!

Can't wait to take more classes.

VA_Dinger
10-09-11, 06:46
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/LAV%20Basic%20Carbine%20Trigger%20Time%2025SEPT2011/IMG_4441.jpg

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VA_Dinger
10-09-11, 06:49
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/LAV%20Basic%20Carbine%20Trigger%20Time%2025SEPT2011/IMG_4457.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/LAV%20Basic%20Carbine%20Trigger%20Time%2025SEPT2011/IMG_4459.jpg

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Barnaby
10-12-11, 09:10
Nice picture of my zombie family.. the wife will be so proud.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/LAV%20Basic%20Carbine%20Trigger%20Time%2025SEPT2011/IMG_4460.jpg

Great class, great training. I look forward to more classes.