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Hello,
I am new to this great site and am just starting to get into AR's and learning all the in's and out's. I have done a few searches on various things and the more I read the more questions and minor confussion my little pea brain has.
So, I was hoping to have a running discussion on AR's and different parts.
Thanks for any answers and replies you offer ahead of time I really appreciate it, it is one thing I really like about this site (people respect each other, take the time to answer questions etc.).
First question... what is the biggest difference in barrel length? if you were building an AR why buy a 16" verses a 14" etc. does length give a more stable/longer shot? shorter for closer shots maybe?
second question... what are some of the main differences in hand guards? I see hundreds of different types, is it purely looks or is there some degree of protection from heat? Do longer ones offer more stability wheen shooting? (being able to hold farther out)
Ok, that all for the moment, but there will be more.
There are a lot of variables to your questions, perhaps a little more searching might help. One difference with <14" bbl's is NFA comes into play, is the difference worth the extra $200 stamp if you can own SBR's in your state? You'll see lots of differing opinions on bbl lengths and gas system lengths here. I run 16" myself on my POW's.
As far as HG's, are you looking to free-float or go with non-FF? That's one major difference. Heat shielding is something to be aware of (I'd avoid el cheapo chicom knockoffs). I like MOE HG's for non-FF applications myself.
I am still pretty new to the whole ar platform myself, this is definately one of the best places to get info. I have had some of the members of the forum come along side of me and help me with negotiating my way through the vast amounts of information on the subject.
Hello,
I am new to this great site and am just starting to get into AR's and learning all the in's and out's. I have done a few searches on various things and the more I read the more questions and minor confussion my little pea brain has.
So, I was hoping to have a running discussion on AR's and different parts.
Thanks for any answers and replies you offer ahead of time I really appreciate it, it is one thing I really like about this site (people respect each other, take the time to answer questions etc.).
First question... what is the biggest difference in barrel length? if you were building an AR why buy a 16" verses a 14" etc. does length give a more stable/longer shot? shorter for closer shots maybe?
second question... what are some of the main differences in hand guards? I see hundreds of different types, is it purely looks or is there some degree of protection from heat? Do longer ones offer more stability wheen shooting? (being able to hold farther out)
Ok, that all for the moment, but there will be more.
Longer barrel gives higher muzzle velocity. Shorter than 16 inches is illegal unless an ATF transfer tax is paid and stamp obtained ($200, a significant paperwork hassle, and about a 4 month waiting period). A shorter barrel provides more maneuverability.
First question... what is the biggest difference in barrel length? if you were building an AR why buy a 16" verses a 14" etc. does length give a more stable/longer shot? shorter for closer shots maybe?
I'm not the expert on this, but since your head is swimming here's a layperson reader's digest version:
As far as military use goes, another factor on barrel length is the fragmentation velocity of 5.56 ball ammo. Original 55 gr NATO ammo fragments in soft targets at around 2700 fps and up. Barrel length affects muzzle velocity, which affects the range where the bullet falls below fragmentation velocity. You can do some research and run ballistics to learn the differences between all the barrel lengths and their terminal effects.
I might have the velocity wrong, and it's OBE anyway (55 gr not issued anymore), but at least maybe it gives you a window into another factor.
Smarter people can correct or elaborate if needed.
I think for every INCH you take off, you lose 25 FPS on velocity starting at a 20" barrel.
As far as handguards go, thats something I think is preference.
What do you plan on mounting, how long, FF or non-FF.
There are literally hundreds of handguards out there. The style in the past 2 years alone is quite different as far as what people use.
Check out the AR pic thread. You will get a really good idea of how people mount different things and how they use them.
Hello,
I am new to this great site and am just starting to get into AR's and learning all the in's and out's. I have done a few searches on various things and the more I read the more questions and minor confussion my little pea brain has.
So, I was hoping to have a running discussion on AR's and different parts.
Thanks for any answers and replies you offer ahead of time I really appreciate it, it is one thing I really like about this site (people respect each other, take the time to answer questions etc.).
First question... what is the biggest difference in barrel length? if you were building an AR why buy a 16" verses a 14" etc. does length give a more stable/longer shot? shorter for closer shots maybe?
second question... what are some of the main differences in hand guards? I see hundreds of different types, is it purely looks or is there some degree of protection from heat? Do longer ones offer more stability wheen shooting? (being able to hold farther out)
Ok, that all for the moment, but there will be more.
first AR? go with 16"... for all the right reasons...
second, rails are (or should) be needs driven - this means you should only add something, that you have determined through actual use, that you need.
other than sights, a magazine and ammo, the next thing an AR needs is a light and a way to mount it so you don't shoot people or things you don't intend to in the dark. you don't need a rail to do this.
I would honestly advise just getting the gun, half a dozen magazines, as much ammo as you can afford, and going out and shoot the gun. no one will think twice or criticize you for not having rails, fancy optics or doodads, etc., especially if you can operate the guns safely and reasonably well. if you have funds left over, try to get into at least a one day carbine training class. the words "you don't know what you don't know" are particularly applicable...
then, only invest in those options that you have found you need. rails are more or less personal choices and there are differences so take the time to ask "why" someone chose the gear they have. ignore answers like "it's the BEST!" unless they can quantify that answer.
good luck...
can you next explain the differences between FF (free floating rail?) verses fixed? The fixed are more permenent correct? FF are easier on and off?
is there any difference other than those... maybe cost?
can you next explain the differences between FF (free floating rail?) verses fixed? The fixed are more permenent correct? FF are easier on and off?
is there any difference other than those... maybe cost?
Free floating handguards or rails do not touch the barrel. They attach near the reciever, and don't touch anything else on the gun (namely the barrel). The theory is that the barrel (and therefore accuracy) are not influenced by accessories or techniques which exert force on the handguard (and then barrel).
Regular (fixed?) handguards attach to the gun at both the reciever and front site base. Any force exerted on the handgards 'may' influence accuracy. They are generally less permanent and more easily changed FYI.
It is all about what you are trying to accomplish, and how much you want to spend.
can you next explain the differences between FF (free floating rail?) verses fixed? The fixed are more permenent correct? FF are easier on and off?
is there any difference other than those... maybe cost?
Free float effectively "locks" the handguard to the receiver. Shortest answer is it allows better accuracy because no outside force is putting stress on the barrel during a shot.
When you say "fixed" I think you mean "not free floated", which would be any other handguard or rail that's clamped between the receiver and the front sight base. Since the handguard/rail is supported at the FSB by the barrel, it puts stress on the barrel during a shot.
FF are typically heavier duty and take a little more work to install. Some are easy and some really need someone that knows what he's doing. They also allow more advanced configurations of lights, grips, optics, slings, etc., because they're commonly used with low profile gas blocks which means you can get more room.
Non free float usually just slip right in and out, and of course are limited to the length available between the receiver and the FSB.
FF are spendy so a person should really need the accuracy, durability, and rail space gains to make it worth it. Your average person that doesn't compete or fight with their rifles might not really notice the difference.
Free floating handguards or rails do not touch the barrel. They attach near the reciever, and don't touch anything else on the gun (namely the barrel). The theory is that the barrel (and therefore accuracy) are not influenced by accessories or techniques which exert force on the handguard (and then barrel).
Regular (fixed?) handguards attach to the gun at both the reciever and front site base. Any force exerted on the handgards 'may' influence accuracy. They are generally less permanent and more easily changed FYI.
It is all about what you are trying to accomplish, and how much you want to spend.
so if you are not going to have a front sight post you would need the free float anyway correct? which brings up another point, if you plan on some kind of scope wouldn't the front sight be in the way? Maybe it just looks like it would be.
I am looking to spend no more than $1500.00 to $2000. I have seen nice rifles such as DD and Noveske for $1500.00 and up, but I am not sure if I want to just buy something like that or piece my own together, thus the questions.
Just trying to learn and ask my own specific questions that pertain to my situation. I am learning and having fun doing so. I know sometimes people say "do a search" and I have been/and do but it helps to also ask when I can't find specifics. So thanks for the time and help to everybody.
jsf343, I'll send you a PM.
Please define what you want to use the gun for. You have a good budget, and should be able to build/buy something that will meet your needs. It is really difficult to give input when you have not defined what the gun is to be used for.
Regarding your question about the scope and FSB, a search of the term 'co-witness' should provide some thorough answers.
totenkopf_u64
09-30-11, 14:25
Don't hesitate to use the search feature. This is Definitely one of the top resources for learning about ARs. That being the case, you have to assume that these sorts of questions have been asked before. All the information is there for you, just start at the stickies and search when you have questions :)
Edit: these threads might help you:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-32280.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-4734.html
For the money, this might be a good carbine to start. Everything needed to get you shooting and the only extra is an RDS (Red Dot Sight) which is a good addition- http://palmettostatearmory.com/2557.php
I understand this doesn't give any explanations, but it might help you give your questions more focus. I know it can be frustrating for someone when asking questions about something they know little to nothing about.
This is just one option and there are other ARs available made by trusted names such as Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense and Noveske. Go to their websites and look at their rifles. PSA, who offers the above rifle is a new comer and hasn't yet fully proven themselves here, but what they have looks good so far. I have one of their rifle kits and the upper shoots good (I haven't finished assembling the lower yet. I hope to have it done this weekend).
It will take time to absorb all the information about ARs, so take your time and be patient. Also, what that information means to you can and will change as you gain experience in shooting and handling them.
Free float tubes eliminate influences the handguards will have on a barrel. They are nice but not needed. They can be added later if you decide you want one.
You won't know if the front sight post will interfere with the optics until you try it. It depends on the optic being used and personal preference. Most find the post with an RDS isn't a problem.
A basic AR with a flat top upper, fixed front sight, simple adjustable stock, standard pistol grip and forearm, in spec bolt carrier group and an in spec barrel of 16" cut to the government, M4 or lightweight profile will give you a good, utilitarian, all around carbine without spending money on features that aren't needed and a good foundation to modify as you learn what you need/don't need and want/don't want.
Welcome to the forum and the madness of BRD (Black Rifle Disease)
I am looking to spend no more than $1500.00 to $2000. I have seen nice rifles such as DD and Noveske for $1500.00 and up, but I am not sure if I want to just buy something like that or piece my own together, thus the questions.
Just trying to learn and ask my own specific questions that pertain to my situation. I am learning and having fun doing so. I know sometimes people say "do a search" and I have been/and do but it helps to also ask when I can't find specifics. So thanks for the time and help to everybody.
I agree with Ra2. My advice generally mirrors his. You should listen.
The reason some of us buy rifles configured in a certain way right off the bat is that we've used AR's in just about every form. We've also used AR's in various roles and know what kind of setups work best for what application. Remember, the mission drives the gear. Gear doesn't drive the mission. For example, I personally know that I like longer rails made by Daniel Defense or Centurion for almost every application. I also know that I prefer 1-4X optics on my 14.5 / 16'' carbines over everything else. But that's just me and those preferences were only realized after using all of the alternatives. So here's what you should do:
Start with something basic! Then, as you use and get used to the AR platform, determine areas which you would like to see improved based on your own personal experience with the rifle. Maybe you'll feel that the stock pistol grip isn't working for you. Maybe you'll find that the standard sling attachment points aren't working for you. Maybe you'll find that the way you hold the rifle lends itself to a 12 o'clock X300 type setup rather than a 3 or 9 o'clock mounted light. The point is that you shouldn't be spending a ton of money right away in order to make your AR look like some asshole's rifle in an ARFCOM picture thread, because you think that's the way it's "supposed" to look.
Get yourself a rifle in basic configuration, a sling, and magazines. For those, I suggest:
A Colt 6920 in standard configuration like this.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920 OR equivalent BCM offering.
One of LAV's adjustable 2 point slings like this:
http://www.nettac.com/BFG-Vickers-VCAS-Sling_p_116.html
By starting out simple like this, you're leaving yourself completely open to pick and choose upgrades that you want down the road based on your own experience, without wasting money on accessories that you either don't need or won't like.
Please define what you want to use the gun for. You have a good budget, and should be able to build/buy something that will meet your needs. It is really difficult to give input when you have not defined what the gun is to be used for.
Regarding your question about the scope and FSB, a search of the term 'co-witness' should provide some thorough answers.
co-witness? will do, thanks for the info.
First... security, whether home or BO.
second... "hobby" for lack of a better term. To shoot, teach my kids to shoot and ongoing education of AR's for future purchases or builds.
I am curious what do you use yours for?
Right now I am green as kermit the frog, but I want to learn, we all started somewhere right?
Given that information, the PSA rifle mentioned above should be about perfect. Thanks for clarifying! If you had stated "300 yard coyote gun" you would need something totally different.
A 16" carbine or middy and red dot site is a great starting point based on what you described. It should be way under your budget as well. Lots of money left over for mags and ammo!
I personnaly have a BCM/mutt that is very similar including the Aimpoint PRO.
I agree with Ra2. My advice generally mirrors his. You should listen.
The reason some of us buy rifles configured in a certain way right off the bat is that we've used AR's in just about every form. We've also used AR's in various roles and know what kind of setups work best for what application. Remember, the mission drives the gear. Gear doesn't drive the mission. For example, I personally know that I like longer rails made by Daniel Defense or Centurion for almost every application. I also know that I prefer 1-4X optics on my 14.5 / 16'' carbines over everything else. But that's just me and those preferences were only realized after using all of the alternatives. So here's what you should do:
Start with something basic! Then, as you use and get used to the AR platform, determine areas which you would like to see improved based on your own personal experience with the rifle. Maybe you'll feel that the stock pistol grip isn't working for you. Maybe you'll find that the standard sling attachment points aren't working for you. Maybe you'll find that the way you hold the rifle lends itself to a 12 o'clock X300 type setup rather than a 3 or 9 o'clock mounted light. The point is that you shouldn't be spending a ton of money right away in order to make your AR look like some asshole's rifle in an ARFCOM picture thread, because you think that's the way it's "supposed" to look.
Get yourself a rifle in basic configuration, a sling, and magazines. For those, I suggest:
A Colt 6920 in standard configuration like this.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920 OR equivalent BCM offering.
One of LAV's adjustable 2 point slings like this:
http://www.nettac.com/BFG-Vickers-VCAS-Sling_p_116.html
By starting out simple like this, you're leaving yourself completely open to pick and choose upgrades that you want down the road based on your own experience, without wasting money on accessories that you either don't need or won't like.
Very good info, I appreciate it.
I am green to AR's and their builds, I am tring to learn why some people like one part over another, what advantage or application that part may bring to the overall weapon. I did use an M-16 on a very limited basis while in the service for qualifying, so I do have a basic understanding of a few aspects of it. The problem is I didn't get to the point of understanding what everything was for, what the part did, etc. and I am simply trying to teach myself before I try and put something together or buy it whole and I don't want to waste time or money which I am sure you understand. anyway this gives me some good reading, thanks again.
Given that information, the PSA rifle mentioned above should be about perfect. Thanks for clarifying! If you had stated "300 yard coyote gun" you would need something totally different.
A 16" carbine or middy and red dot site is a great starting point based on what you described. It should be way under your budget as well. Lots of money left over for mags and ammo!
I personnaly have a BCM/mutt that is very similar including the Aimpoint PRO.
ok another one of my dumb questions...what are the differences between the two? (carbine and middy) longer barrel/types of barrel?
I saw quite a few positive comments on the BCM on here.
You are dangerously close to opening a few different cans of worms :D!
The really short answer is that the orange search button and time spent with it will give you more answers than you will want/need.
The slightly longer and more helpful answer is than carbine-length gas systems are 7" long, and mid-length are 9". You gain some space behind your FSB, and an oft-debated reduction in recoil/violence to your gun with the middy.
Not to continue beating a dead horse but, as someone who has been where you are at, I think the best advice is to to get a quality basic model (the PSA rifle or Colt 6920 linked in above posts would be a good start) and shoot a few thousand rounds through it. You can do all the theoretical research you want, but until you get a rifle in your hands and shoot it, you will have no clue what works for you when it comes to modifications. Only after you have actually used the rifle for more then plinking can you start to know what you want to upgrade.
That is my .02 but I think it will save you money in the long run on stuff that you didn't really need in the first place.
I appreciate the advice, but how is that going to help me understand barrel length, hand guards and various parts I am simply asking questions about? I have shot a rifle before so I am not completely new to the concept.
There is a lot of good advice and information in these many posts, for those who contributed Thanks.
Im tired... feeling grumpy.
The difference between a carbine length and mid-length (or middy) gas system is in the distance from the chamber end of the barrel to the gas port. At what point the distance is measured from, I am uncertain. As noted earlier, the carbine has a 7 inch gas system and the middy has a 9 inch gas system.
As the bullet travels down the barrel and the gases expand, pressure drops. The pressure used to operate the rifle with a 7 inch gas sytem is higher than with a 9 inch gas system. Each length has it's strengths and weaknesses. Some feel the longer gas system has a softer recoil.
(Some will tell you the recoil is lessened, but that isn't true. Using identical ammunition in rifles identical in every way with the exception of gas system tuning- including gas system length- recoil energy will be the same. What will differ is how the recoil feels.)
I have a 16" middy carbine with a stainless steel gov profile barrel and a friend has a 16" Colt M4 with a carbine gas system. Both rifles shoot fine and there isn't enough difference between the two for us to bother arguing about. I like my rifle better, but that's because it's the one I chose
I appreciate the advice, but how is that going to help me understand barrel length, hand guards and various parts I am simply asking questions about? I have shot a rifle before so I am not completely new to the concept.
There is a lot of good advice and information in these many posts, for those who contributed Thanks.
Im tired... feeling grumpy.
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS433US433&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=midlength+vs.+carbine+length
Ok, I have been reading and researching and like the parts/specs of this rifle...http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
I also like the price which is in the low end of my range for a good starter.
I am curious if anybody has one of these or what you have heard about this company, good or bad I would like your feedback.
if the above link does not work I will leave this here...http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
totenkopf_u64
10-01-11, 23:35
For that price I would consider this BCM (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C). Or wait for Grant to get Colt 6920s (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920) back in stock.
What is it about the CMMG specs that you like? Both of the above rifles are empirically better and a touch cheaper.
Just remembered that crazy PSA deal here (http://palmettostatearmory.com/2557.php). For $1000 You get what should be a quality starter rifle and an Aimpoint PRO.
Ok, I have been reading and researching and like the parts/specs of this rifle...http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
I also like the price which is in the low end of my range for a good starter.
I am curious if anybody has one of these or what you have heard about this company, good or bad I would like your feedback.
if the above link does not work I will leave this here...http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
Here's the thing....CMMG, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms, Del-Ton are not known for making quality firearms. There are a variety of corners that they are reputed to cut in their design and in their quality control. That's fine...for a lot of people who only drill occasional holes, a cheap "imported" drill from Harbor Freight will work just fine. The problem in this case is that those firearms companies' market penetration is such that people assume they must be better, and end up spending as much or almost as much as they would for a quality firearm from BCM, Daniel Defense, even Colt (which is still the standard by which other rifles are judged).
So...if you're just looking for a range toy to shoot a few hundred rounds a year, that tier of rifles might work fine for you. If you're looking for a good, reliable rifle that will last you trouble free for decades, you'd be better off spending a little more and getting a lot more rifle.
Here's the thing....CMMG, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms, Del-Ton are not known for making quality firearms. There are a variety of corners that they are reputed to cut in their design and in their quality control. That's fine...for a lot of people who only drill occasional holes, a cheap "imported" drill from Harbor Freight will work just fine. The problem in this case is that those firearms companies' market penetration is such that people assume they must be better, and end up spending as much or almost as much as they would for a quality firearm from BCM, Daniel Defense, even Colt (which is still the standard by which other rifles are judged).
So...if you're just looking for a range toy to shoot a few hundred rounds a year, that tier of rifles might work fine for you. If you're looking for a good, reliable rifle that will last you trouble free for decades, you'd be better off spending a little more and getting a lot more rifle.
ok, that was what I thought and very good advice. I am willing to spend a bit more for something that IS reliable, will be trouble free and will last for many many years.
After considering what folks have said and reading hours of threads, comments and talking to friends with AR's, I have narrowed down my choices and am heavily leaning towards a Daniel Defense. The hard part now is deciding which particular model to pursue. I think I like the lightweight version(s) the best. I feel this is going to set me up well and meet the criteria I am looking for...
1. want something for the really long term that will hold up for thousands of rounds/years of use.
2. something with high quality and proven parts.
3. modifiable.
4. around the price range of $1500.00
If anyone has one of these or has shot one I would love to hear your feedback. I am to the point I am ready to buy, take a class or two and get shooting! Its almost like Christmas, I can't wait.:)
totenkopf_u64
10-04-11, 12:29
I feel like you're not quite paying attention. DD will be fine. There has been nothing recommended to you that is not a quality rifle with the possible exception of PSA (and only because they may not have been proven quite yet, specs are good). Also, you need not pay more than 1k for a quality rifle, though you are more than welcome to.
You should pick a DD model you like (light weight), and then use the search function to learn about it. Come on back if you have any unanswered questions. You're certainly on the right track!
I feel like you're not quite paying attention. DD will be fine. There has been nothing recommended to you that is not a quality rifle with the possible exception of PSA (and only because they may not have been proven quite yet, specs are good). Also, you need not pay more than 1k for a quality rifle, though you are more than welcome to.
You should pick a DD model you like (light weight), and then use the search function to learn about it. Come on back if you have any unanswered questions. You're certainly on the right track!
lol, not paying attention? really?! isn't this a firearm forum? can't I ask questions, get answers, research, learn? all of which I have been doing. I like many of the brands mentioned by others, you included. How is that not paying attention? I have narrowed it down from research (including doing a "search"), discussion (with you and others) and price.
My last questions were specific towards DD and the models, if people want to respond then great, if not then thats fine too, but don't throw water on my fire by telling me I am not paying attention when I have learned a lot from you and others.
I just purchased the Daniel Defense m4 v3 yesterday. I have done alot of research and knew that I wanted the mid length gas system. then you need to decide if you want a FSB or just a rail and add your own iron sites. Daniel defense only offers I think 3 rifles with the mid length gas system.
lol, not paying attention? really?! isn't this a firearm forum? can't I ask questions, get answers, research, learn? all of which I have been doing. I like many of the brands mentioned by others, you included. How is that not paying attention? I have narrowed it down from research (including doing a "search"), discussion (with you and others) and price.
My last questions were specific towards DD and the models, if people want to respond then great, if not then thats fine too, but don't throw water on my fire by telling me I am not paying attention when I have learned a lot from you and others.
There is a lot of information here about DD carbines. If you look at the DD website, you'll see that the only options to choose barrel length/type, gas system type, and rail length (and part of that is if you want a standard front sight, or not). The lower receivers are the same, so the models are similar. People aren't trying to rain on your parade, it is just that these topics have been covered extensively here. It isn't personal.
Let me suggest getting the DD upper with standard or MOE handguards and an FSB, then shoot it. The experience of shooting will help you decide if the added expense of rails is worth it and the MOE handguards should be easy to sell off. If you decide a low profile gas block is better for your purposes, the FSB can be cut down
I purchased a DDM4 V5 recently and it's my first AR. I did a bunch of research on this and other forums and in the end, it had the features I wanted and it was in stock locally (so I could both see it in person and it was available right away). Going in, I wanted a quad rail and vertical grip, both of which the DDM4 come with and was in my price range. I actually initially wanted one with a FSB, but now I am happy that I got one with an open top rail as I REALLY like the Troy BUIS with the HK front. I like the way the round front post fits in the round rear sight and also "matches" the look of the EoTech RDS that I have on it.
Could I have gone with something very different? Yes. I wanted the quad rail because I wanted it to be modular since it was my first AR, I didn't really know what I liked or disliked. I agree with many of the previous posters to get a quality AR and shoot it alot and then you'll be able to figure out what you like. Just to happens, that the DDM4 is pretty close to what I thought I wanted. That being said, I think I may ditch the VFG for some rail covers with a little more traction than the rail covers that came with the DDM4 and a handstop.
As for use, primarily plinking and I eventually want to get into the local practical combat 2-gun events and eventually a carbine course, for which I will need to travel out-of-state. But primarily, I just wanted something to learn about the AR platform since this was my first rifle. So far I am VERY happy with my purchase of DD and my experience with their customer service. That being said, I probably would be saying the same thing if I bought a BCM, which I almost did. I didn't because the local shop doesn't stock them, but could special order them and that very well may be my second AR! Haha.
As for carbine vs middy. I actually kind of stumbled into a middy. I initially wanted a DDM4 V4 (carbine length), but the local shop had the V5 in stock, so that's what I ended up with. Now that I have the middy, I like the extra rail space that it allows. From what I've read, carbine vs. middy debate is one that you'll have six to one and half dozen to the other. For me, I think it's personal preference and you can get excellent performance out of either.
I am still a newbie at this, but I did a LOT of research before buying. But like others have said, there are some questions that you have answer for yourself after you get it in your hands. That's part of the fun of the modular nature of the AR! Feel free to ask me any questions (via PM if you like).
excellent, thanks for the replies, that was what kind of info I was interested in hearing.
There is a lot of information here about DD carbines. If you look at the DD website, you'll see that the only options to choose barrel length/type, gas system type, and rail length (and part of that is if you want a standard front sight, or not). The lower receivers are the same, so the models are similar. People aren't trying to rain on your parade, it is just that these topics have been covered extensively here. It isn't personal.
I read every thread on them, although most were older. This was how I narrowed it to DD. I was just curious if anybody recently bought one and had feedback which I received. All good stuff and gave me more to chew on.
I know it isn't personal and I am trying to not take it that way, like I said I am new to this and am having fun learning. I look up to the people who have a ton of knowledge and am simply trying to learn, not annoy. I appreciate and respect the folks who actually have the PATIECE to answer the noobs questions.
I purchased a DDM4 V5 recently and it's my first AR. I did a bunch of research on this and other forums and in the end, it had the features I wanted and it was in stock locally (so I could both see it in person and it was available right away). Going in, I wanted a quad rail and vertical grip, both of which the DDM4 come with and was in my price range. I actually initially wanted one with a FSB, but now I am happy that I got one with an open top rail as I REALLY like the Troy BUIS with the HK front. I like the way the round front post fits in the round rear sight and also "matches" the look of the EoTech RDS that I have on it.
Could I have gone with something very different? Yes. I wanted the quad rail because I wanted it to be modular since it was my first AR, I didn't really know what I liked or disliked. I agree with many of the previous posters to get a quality AR and shoot it alot and then you'll be able to figure out what you like. Just to happens, that the DDM4 is pretty close to what I thought I wanted. That being said, I think I may ditch the VFG for some rail covers with a little more traction than the rail covers that came with the DDM4 and a handstop.
As for use, primarily plinking and I eventually want to get into the local practical combat 2-gun events and eventually a carbine course, for which I will need to travel out-of-state. But primarily, I just wanted something to learn about the AR platform since this was my first rifle. So far I am VERY happy with my purchase of DD and my experience with their customer service. That being said, I probably would be saying the same thing if I bought a BCM, which I almost did. I didn't because the local shop doesn't stock them, but could special order them and that very well may be my second AR! Haha.
As for carbine vs middy. I actually kind of stumbled into a middy. I initially wanted a DDM4 V4 (carbine length), but the local shop had the V5 in stock, so that's what I ended up with. Now that I have the middy, I like the extra rail space that it allows. From what I've read, carbine vs. middy debate is one that you'll have six to one and half dozen to the other. For me, I think it's personal preference and you can get excellent performance out of either.
I am still a newbie at this, but I did a LOT of research before buying. But like others have said, there are some questions that you have answer for yourself after you get it in your hands. That's part of the fun of the modular nature of the AR! Feel free to ask me any questions (via PM if you like).
This is really great info and the type of stuff I was looking for. I am curious what state are you in that you have to go out of state for the carbine class if you don't mind me asking? hard for me to believe there is a state worse then my own.
This is really great info and the type of stuff I was looking for. I am curious what state are you in that you have to go out of state for the carbine class if you don't mind me asking? hard for me to believe there is a state worse then my own.
I live in Hawaii. No carbine courses offered out here, at least none that I know of. When I am ready, I'll be looking for one where they schedule it somewhere on the west coast or as far as Arizona (Magpul?).
Hawaii does have some funky gun laws, like no CCW allowed. Well, technically it's allowed, but only for specific instances (LE, authorized security companies, etc.). There's a currently a lawsuit arguing that very point.
I've heard that other states, like CA, have much stricter gun laws than Hawaii. We have one outdoor public range per island. There's a petition or some kind of movement to try to get another one opened up on Oahu, but that is probably many years off at best.
Getting back to your original post, I have found specific reports of on both the DDM4 V4 and V5 recently on a few forums. PM if you would like links to those topics.
totenkopf_u64
10-04-11, 18:30
I am sorry if I offended you, jsf, that was not my intent and I apologize if I have done so. If you have researched DD in this forum it really ought to be evident that their equipment is squared away.
1. want something for the really long term that will hold up for thousands of rounds/years of use.
2. something with high quality and proven parts.
3. modifiable.
4. around the price range of $1500.00
Again, you should be able to answer these questions yourself given the information provided by M4C. After a wealth of options were provided to you, you proposed a CMMG rifle... that caused me to question your diligence.
You are on the right track, so do continue. Do try and ask pointed questions. Be specific.
If anyone has one of these or has shot one I would love to hear your feedback. I am to the point I am ready to buy, take a class or two and get shooting! Its almost like Christmas, I can't wait.
This is not a pointed question. Buy a quality rifle, shoot it, and use your own experience to determine the direction you would like to go with your build. I still only have a Basic carbine, but putting rounds through it and gaining experience with various optics has given me the insight I need to determine what I eventually want to have (when I aquire some more currency :)).
I am sorry if I offended you, jsf, that was not my intent and I apologize if I have done so. If you have researched DD in this forum it really ought to be evident that their equipment is squared away.
Again, you should be able to answer these questions yourself given the information provided by M4C. After a wealth of options were provided to you, you proposed a CMMG rifle... that caused me to question your diligence.
You are on the right track, so do continue. Do try and ask pointed questions. Be specific.
This is not a pointed question. Buy a quality rifle, shoot it, and use your own experience to determine the direction you would like to go with your build. I still only have a Basic carbine, but putting rounds through it and gaining experience with various optics has given me the insight I need to determine what I eventually want to have (when I aquire some more currency :)).
its OK, I think anyone would get to the point of some frustration, but maybe I wasn't specific enough. Its cool though, I really appreciate your input as much as anyone elses.
TunaFisherman
10-04-11, 20:53
My 1st AR is a SP6920. I bought this based on Colts reputaion.
I have zero complaints with my Colt.
My next rifle will be a Mid length. BCM or DD. No real reason. I like the front sight moved farther fwd. I prefer a fixed front sight w/ red dot and a rear flip up sight.
Also you may want a longer reach if you are a big person and a middy will show up ready for a you to hold farther down the barrel. This can also be done on a carbine length by cutting down the sight or a low profile gas block and adding a longer rail.
I am fairly new to the AR world. So some may find fault with my post.
Its always a learning experience. Just my .02
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