View Full Version : Risking redundancy
Yeah, Im sure its been asked before at least a time or 3 but let's turn up some new water. When is the XD going to get some major mil/le contracts? People love the Glocks and for good reason, myself included. But tell me something horrible about them as to why they shouldn't be on the front line? I would go as far to say these are better than the Glocks (both stock) I don't know, get mad and take a side!
There's this rad new thing the kids are doing, using the search button! It yields the following:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37731
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70089
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52850
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=23601
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=902
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14204
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=57940
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24786
These might be a few hints to answer your question.
Yeah, Im sure its been asked before at least a time or 3 but let's turn up some new water. When is the XD going to get some major mil/le contracts? People love the Glocks and for good reason, myself included. But tell me something horrible about them as to why they shouldn't be on the front line? I would go as far to say these are better than the Glocks (both stock) I don't know, get mad and take a side!
The main issue is when tested with a large round count, the guns just are not as reliable as other polymer weapons. Couple that with the fact that most LE or .Mil contracts are written to not allow a grip safety. So the XD is doomed.
C4
So its sleep for the XD! :lazy2: Damn, heart breaking lol I stay on team Springfield..... Wheres dat easy button at? Thanks C4IGrant
If you put aside the technicals for a moment, I have noticed the following about the XD....
Some people really love them! My friend has a large, expensive gun collection. He could buy anything he wanted. He carries an XD 40 everywhere he goes. I don't understand it. He has Berettas, Glocks, 1911s and he chooses to carry the XD.I have a few acquaintances that feel the same way.
Personally, I hate them. Like I said all technical attributes aside, they feel flimsy, have too many buttons and I can't hit the broad side of a barn with them.
F-Trooper05
10-01-11, 19:54
My biggest problem with them is that they somehow doubled in price after Springfield Armory put it's adorable little stamp on it.
In addition to the above, the other factor limiting the XD is that it is a single action pistol. This can be important variable with certain end-users and their risk assessment folks. (See also: M&P)
I really like the XD for its ergos and trigger. I think its a great pistol for target shooting. The two that I have had personal experience with both had various issues including consistent FTF's with KG new magazines and FTE's. These issues were replicated with different ammunition including decent FMJ and JHP.
I wish Springfield would make a more reliable version of this pistol with the same trigger. The XDM just is not as good as the original in my opinion.
TriviaMonster
10-02-11, 15:51
I have an XDm 3.8 full size in 9mm. It's been a great shooter, no failures in 1500 rounds or so. They just don't cone with that deep Leo bulk purchase discount like the others. Oh well. It's a platform that's still relatively new to most people, and it still has something to prove. I love mine though.
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Traveshamockery
10-02-11, 16:33
My biggest problem with them is that they somehow doubled in price after Springfield Armory put it's adorable little stamp on it.
The HS2000 turned into the XD. The XDM was a new design.
Pistol Shooter
10-02-11, 16:46
I have an XDm 3.8 full size in 9mm. It's been a great shooter, no failures in 1500 rounds or so. They just don't cone with that deep Leo bulk purchase discount like the others. Oh well. It's a platform that's still relatively new to most people, and it still has something to prove. I love mine though.
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What exactly is "new" about the platform that hasn't been done by other gun makers?
Traveshamockery
10-02-11, 17:01
What exactly is "new" about the platform that hasn't been done by other gun makers?
EDIT: For some reason, I thought this was a response to me. Please disregard my original post.
I have an XDm 3.8 full size in 9mm. It's been a great shooter, no failures in 1500 rounds or so. They just don't cone with that deep Leo bulk purchase discount like the others. Oh well. It's a platform that's still relatively new to most people, and it still has something to prove. I love mine though.
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Yours is a sample size of one, not an average and really doesn't prove much. It is not that new and so far it has proven to be lacking when compared to some other pistols out on the market. This is not to say, the XD is the worst gun and no one should buy them, but instead means there are better options for the money. If you have one and it does what you want it to at a level you are happy with, then rock on.
TriviaMonster
10-02-11, 18:28
What exactly is "new" about the platform that hasn't been done by other gun makers?
Yeah I guess its just a polymer center fire pistol when it comes down to it. Nothing new, just a different variation on the same old stuff. I suppose one reason I like it is the grip angle, it pointed well right off the bat.
I'm not saying its a great gun because I happen to have a winner. I just like it, nothing more, nothing less. Every gun can always use improvements, including the xd and XDm. If it maintains It's current pace, ill be satisfied.
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F-Trooper05
10-02-11, 18:57
The HS2000 turned into the XD. The XDM was a new design.
How exactly is the XDm a new design compared to the XD? Because it comes with a Fobus holster and a "match grade" barrel? (Whatever that means).
F-Trooper05
10-02-11, 18:59
double post
TriviaMonster
10-02-11, 19:18
How exactly is the XDm a new design compared to the XD? Because it comes with a Fobus holster and a "match grade" barrel? (Whatever that means).
I think the regular xd comes with a plinking grade holster as well right?
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I carry an XD both on and off duty. I have had zero problems but I'll be moving to a glock soon. I have a friend who has been in officer involved shooting with an xd and he had a problem with the grip safety. He must not have engaged it fully and did a tap rack bang. I think that is more of a training issue and not the pistol.
GermanSynergy
10-02-11, 20:02
The XD's bring absolutely nothing to the table that the Glock, M&P and HK didn't already bring, performance wise.
I have a friend who has been in officer involved shooting with an xd and he had a problem with the grip safety. He must not have engaged it fully and did a tap rack bang.
THIS is why the XD is not seen often in an LE role.
Heavy Metal
10-02-11, 20:57
Grip Safety.....He must not have engaged it fully and did a tap rack bang. I think that is more of a training issue and not the pistol.
Reminds me of a quote:
"A good Engineer solves a problem, a great Engineer avoids it in the first place."
I prefer to eliminate failure modes as opposed to training to compensate for them.
I prefer to eliminate failure modes as opposed to training to compensate for them.
I partly agree with you. When I said training issue I meant training to get a solid high grip on the gun just like you would train with any other pistol. I always thought the grip safety was pointless anyways. I'll be trying to sell my xd sub compact here soon to fund a G22 purchase to eventually replace my xd on duty.
TriviaMonster
10-03-11, 15:08
It's nice to actually hear a story relating to real life failure rather than complaints from people who have never used one. I use a pachmyer grip sleeve anyways, which I have positioned to cover the grip safety, so its kind of pointless on my gun.
I do understand why some people like them though. Since its a true single action, the trigger jobs the guns can receive(as low as 2lbs)along with a super short pull(less than 1/8th") can be slightly hazardous with no safety.
I know, I know, my safety is betwixt my ears, but how many people carry a 1911 in condition zero with a 2lb trigger? Makes you wonder why a grip safety over a standard frame mounted was chosen though. Oh well.
I think that is the reason an external safety exists on the gun at all.
I am planning on a full trigger job for my XDm. I am going to have the auto takedown disabled. The auto takedown allows for no trigger pull when field stripping, which is actually pretty cool. The auto takedown does actually hinder the trigger performance slightly for triggers looking to go under 3lbs. I am hoping to keep reliability the same, but with a pull around 2 lbs, and much, much shorter than stock. It's not a carry gun for me, so I am just looking to have fun with it.
Sorry to bore you guys with my XDm babbling. I am looking to pick up a HK P30 soon if it makes me less of a loser haha.
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Had an XDm in .40 and 9mm when they were somewhat new to the market, never had any issues with either. However, I do think they are extremely overpriced compared to Glock and S&W.
Reminds me of a quote:
"A good Engineer solves a problem, a great Engineer avoids it in the first place."
I prefer to eliminate failure modes as opposed to training to compensate for them.
Tell that to all the guys using and buying $2,500.00+ 1911s and doing well with them.
Heavy Metal
10-08-11, 16:25
Tell that to all the guys using and buying $2,500.00+ 1911s and doing well with them.
I would rather buy an H&K 45 and pocket the other $1500 instead.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-08-11, 16:59
This forum has some deep rooted (but possibly untrue) problems with the XD line. To date Ive seen no confirmed reports of XD failures, somebody show me one, not just heresay. Show me a well respected expert saying they are dangerous or prone to failure. My first pistol was an XD and I didnt like it so I sold it for a Sig. Ive since sold the sig and bought a couple of Glocks, and and HK45C is on the waiting list. My XD never gave me a problem throughout the year and 1-2k rds put through it, same with my Sigs. In fact, the only malfunctions Ive ever had on a pistol platform was with my G19:eek:. Some of the brand wars here are pretty stupid.
This forum has some deep rooted (but possibly untrue) problems with the XD line. To date Ive seen no confirmed reports of XD failures, somebody show me one, not just heresay. Show me a well respected expert saying they are dangerous or prone to failure. My first pistol was an XD and I didnt like it so I sold it for a Sig. Ive since sold the sig and bought a couple of Glocks, and and HK45C is on the waiting list. My XD never gave me a problem throughout the year and 1-2k rds put through it, same with my Sigs. In fact, the only malfunctions Ive ever had on a pistol platform was with my G19:eek:. Some of the brand wars here are pretty stupid.
Talk to professional instructors that see a lot of pistols. Most will not recommend the XD(M).
To my knowledge, no XD has ever passed an extensive test. Are these reports posted for the public to review? Never. Some of us see them or know people involved in the tests.
If you like the XD or XDM, then great. Buy a bunch of them and run them through pistol schools.
C4
I had an XD40 that had over 2k malfunction free rounds, but I still didn't like it. I felt it managed recoil poorly, I don't care for the internal extractor, capacity felt low for the grip length. It felt weird disliking a pistol that was reliable for the time I owned it but I sold it and have no regrets about it. I am, however, loving my M&P40.
a question is why hasn't springfield removed the grip safety? it's not as if the design hinges on the grip safety's existence.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-08-11, 22:47
I had an XD40 that had over 2k malfunction free rounds, but I still didn't like it. I felt it managed recoil poorly, I don't care for the internal extractor, capacity felt low for the grip length. It felt weird disliking a pistol that was reliable for the time I owned it but I sold it and have no regrets about it. I am, however, loving my M&P40.
I found myself in the same shoes. I had a completely reliable pistol, but no love for it.
a question is why hasn't springfield removed the grip safety? it's not as if the design hinges on the grip safety's existence.
It has the grip safety because it is a single action pistol. The M&P is essentially a SA pistol as well but they just look the other way and tell you it's double action...
It has the grip safety because it is a single action pistol. The M&P is essentially a SA pistol as well but they just look the other way and tell you it's double action...
so the latter doesn't have a grip safety... why does the xd?
it has the trigger safety just like the glock. the glock has no grip safety.
so the latter doesn't have a grip safety... why does the xd?
it has the trigger safety just like the glock. the glock has no grip safety.
Glock is an actual DAO (double action only) meaning the striker is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
Glock is an actual DAO (double action only) meaning the striker is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
so this thing is cocked and waiting to striker the firing pin... are there two things in the way of the firing pin (grip safety and trigger safety) or is there only one thing in the way of the firing pin (grip safety)?
It has the grip safety because it is a single action pistol. The M&P is essentially a SA pistol as well but they just look the other way and tell you it's double action...
apparently the sear is angled slightly so the striker is pulled back a little before its released.... I'd call it SAO though... basically any safe SAO design has the same sort of angle design going on.
It DOES have a firing pin safety though.. so i guess that's good.
as far as the actual topic of this thread, i think no one would buy the XD at all if they didn't pump so much money into american rifleman and buy the "handgun of the year" title every year. It's always some fudd telling you it "got better reviews than glock" :rolleyes:
it's got a poorly designed grip safety and it's the ugliest polymer pistol on the market (which takes some doing)
so this thing is cocked and waiting to striker the firing pin... are there two things in the way of the firing pin (grip safety and trigger safety) or is there only one thing in the way of the firing pin (grip safety)?
I'll try to explain the differences here for you:
Glock: DAO, trigger safety, FPB (firing pin block), striker fully cocked after trigger is pulled
M&P: claims DAO but it no doubt appears SAO, trigger safety, FPB, striker fully cocked before trigger pulled
XD: SAO, trigger safety, FPB, grip safety, striker fully cocked before trigger pulled
None of these firearms have firing pins, they have strikers. The sear engages the striker and when the sear moves out of the way when the trigger is pulled, the striker is forced forward by a coil spring, striking the primer.
Little late to the party. I pretty much just spend my time reading the carbine threads and missed this one.
If you like the XD or XDM, then great. Buy a bunch of them and run them through pistol schools. I have run mine through a two day RedBack One class and it did just fine. Zero issues through 800 rounds and no cleaning. (which put me over the 4000 round mark for this pistol) Nobody else really had any issues either with the new crop of handguns or than a couple guns auto-forwarding. The only failure was a Glock that was right off the shelf and needed a good cleaning. Once that was accomplished we were on our way.
Jason was less than impressed that I showed up with an XDm, but he readily admitted that he had little experience with the pistol. He more or less challenged me to not clean the pistol to see what happened, so I did. This class was not a group of professionals, so the fact that I ended up with the highest accuracy on day one is no big deal, but the pistol is very easy to shoot accurately for me.
I am always surprised to see so many dealing with issues in the M&P line are so quick to dismiss the XD series pistols. It's also not like the Gen 4 Glocks aren't having issues either.
I plan to continue my training using this same XDm. I like it, I shoot it well. We'll see how it does this summer in another RedBack One class.
Traveshamockery
01-24-12, 19:34
a question is why hasn't springfield removed the grip safety? it's not as if the design hinges on the grip safety's existence.
Whether the SMEs on M4Carbine agree with it or not, it's a selling point for a lot of consumers.
I bought an XD as my first gun ever. I'm a first generation gun owner, and liked the perception of added safety.
EDIT: This is not intended as an endorsement of the XD, just commentary based on personal experience.
as far as the actual topic of this thread, i think no one would buy the XD at all if they didn't pump so much money into american rifleman and buy the "handgun of the year" title every year. It's always some fudd telling you it "got better reviews than glock" :rolleyes:
Just wanted clarification how do you know this is trueand if it is can you provide a link or something about this.
This forum has some deep rooted (but possibly untrue) problems with the XD line. To date Ive seen no confirmed reports of XD failures, somebody show me one, not just heresay. Show me a well respected expert saying they are dangerous or prone to failure. My first pistol was an XD and I didnt like it so I sold it for a Sig. Ive since sold the sig and bought a couple of Glocks, and and HK45C is on the waiting list. My XD never gave me a problem throughout the year and 1-2k rds put through it, same with my Sigs. In fact, the only malfunctions Ive ever had on a pistol platform was with my G19:eek:. Some of the brand wars here are pretty stupid.
l have a xd45 in my possession right now that does not function due to the grip safety. I got it in a large buy from a guy strapped for cash.
The guy l know well (he wouldn't lie) said the pistol had 6-700 rounds through it and was never really caried other than being taken hiking a few times.
The gun looks new and obviously hasnt been through any hard use. l went to strip it to clean it because l'm going to sell it and couldn't rack the slide. Upon inspection the grip safety is stuck in, but cannot be depressed completely, rendering the gun useless.
SA customer service is sending me a call tag said they will fix it. Doesnt really matter to me because l wasnt gonna carry it anyway.
For those interested, from what l could gather without completely disassembling the pistol (which SA said would void the warranty possibly?) the main culprit to "breaking" this pistol was an accumulation of pocket lint/grit that worked its way into the recess that houses the grip safety spring and eventually caused the spring to back out of the recess just enough that it wont compress enough to function the grip safety.
Now, for any naysayers, l'm no pistol smith so l guess l cant exactly 100% say that everyday pocket lint/grit broke the pistol and factually prove it, but, l am gambling man and l have seen enough to say l would actually bet my ****ing house on it if l could.
So, you might wanna rethink a cc carry pistol that can be broken by everyday pocket lint/grit. I still have the pistol if anyone wants to see pics befor l send it in.
I had a XD9SC and loved it. 0 malfunctions in about 1,500 rounds. I traded it towards my HK which is malfunctioning like an SOB. The irony!!! :blink:
I will say that the XDM is a ripoff. I do hear issues regarding the XDM but rarely about XD's. I highly prefer the XD to XDM, myself. It's a bonus that you save about $300.
I bought XD9 as my first pistol, had trigger job on it. As a range shooter it is very good. I have several thousand rounds through it with 0 malfunctions or any other issues. Then I took a class with rented XD. That pistol had no issues as well, but the grip safety became a problem when clearing type 3 malfunctions. Sometimes a slide would not lock when grip safety not fully pressed. Because of this I would not rely on XD as primary defense weapon. I am breaking in Glock 17 which will replace XD as my primary defense weapon.
warlord260
01-26-12, 18:05
l have a xd45 in my possession right now that does not function due to the grip safety. I got it in a large buy from a guy strapped for cash.
The guy l know well (he wouldn't lie) said the pistol had 6-700 rounds through it and was never really caried other than being taken hiking a few times.
The gun looks new and obviously hasnt been through any hard use. l went to strip it to clean it because l'm going to sell it and couldn't rack the slide. Upon inspection the grip safety is stuck in, but cannot be depressed completely, rendering the gun useless.
SA customer service is sending me a call tag said they will fix it. Doesnt really matter to me because l wasnt gonna carry it anyway.
For those interested, from what l could gather without completely disassembling the pistol (which SA said would void the warranty possibly?) the main culprit to "breaking" this pistol was an accumulation of pocket lint/grit that worked its way into the recess that houses the grip safety spring and eventually caused the spring to back out of the recess just enough that it wont compress enough to function the grip safety.
Now, for any naysayers, l'm no pistol smith so l guess l cant exactly 100% say that everyday pocket lint/grit broke the pistol and factually prove it, but, l am gambling man and l have seen enough to say l would actually bet my ****ing house on it if l could.
So, you might wanna rethink a cc carry pistol that can be broken by everyday pocket lint/grit. I still have the pistol if anyone wants to see pics befor l send it in.
Must be a pretty goddamned big pocket. The XD45 is a large pistol.
It has the grip safety because it is a single action pistol. The M&P is essentially a SA pistol as well but they just look the other way and tell you it's double action...
The M&P has a lip on the sear that pushes back the striker a little bit. Of course after I shave it off then it is definitely a single action pistol. :D
Personally I think most of the issues that people have with the gun is that is has a short record, or as someone put it, is new, when compared to the track record of the Glock. That means a lot to people and whether we like it or not, most people do not like change. A lot of people are comfortable with Glocks, have accepted their faults and see Glocks as a known quantity where as the XD series is new and an unknown.
I personally like the original XD, not to say its perfect, but I find I shoot them better then my Glock(XD9, XD40 XD45 XD9sc having shot compared to my Glock 17), I also personally think that the XD series isn't a bad looking gun, course that means precisely shit, the grip safety never bothered me, even when coming from odd draw positions, but that's me, and I have put a lot of rounds through a 1911. My gripes come into I don't care for the shiny mags, I could care less about loaded chamber indicators, I think it could fair well to have a few ounces shaved off of it, and unlike Glocks there are just not as much accessories out there and it hasn't been around long enough to truly prove itself. Now the XDM? Yeah, I think its fugly, don't find it to be accurate, and the one I shot had several FTF and FTEs, one case though.
Where I am at, price for a used XD is generally $50 cheaper then a used 3rd Gen Glock, unless the Glock is OD in which case its priced $600. Now the XDMs are high though, no arguing that, of course used 4th Gen Glocks run $500-550.
The M&P has a lip on the sear that pushes back the striker a little bit. Of course after I shave it off then it is definitely a single action pistol. :D
I agree and mine also no longer has the minor bulge that S&W claims to make it double action. The way I see it, if the striker were to be released from the cocked postion it would easily have enough force to activate the primer, assuming the FPB did not stop it. Therefore, I see it as a single action.
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