HK45 here? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-17-07, 20:02

They probably won't get much below $899 for a while. I picked up one for $919.00 today. It is quite nice.

DAY 1: 250/250
Saturday, November 17, 2007

First 20 rounds out of the gun at 30 feet. Fired offhand at a medium/fast pace.

http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0364.jpg

I drove to Adventure Outdoors and picked up my HK45 today. I wasn’t able to get him to hold it when I called them yesterday. Luckily no one there knew what it was. When I got there at opening time this morning, there was someone on the phone asking about it. Too slow!

First things first. The HK45 is a service weapon. It is clearly meant for military/police/sport use, not CCW. That said, it is just as easy to conceal as a 1911, and carries a little more easily because it is lighter. Second, the gun is basically a USP Compact .45 that has been P30-ized. That is a very good thing. Ergonomically, the HK45 is in a different world, hell a different galaxy from the USP 45 fullsize. Everything is better. The grip is better, the sights are better, the safety is much, much better, the mag release is better, etc. If I had a fullsize USP .45 I would dump it immediately in favor of the HK45.

The gun came coated in what looked like Cosmo/Vaso line. I cleaned it all off before I shot it. I also boresnaked the barrel. I bought 250 rounds of Blazer Brass 230 grain ball for “break-in” My first group of 5 was barely bigger than a nickel. I knew I was going to be happy. The HK45 comes pre-sighted from the factory with some of the smartest sights out there. The HK45, despite being a little shorter than a 5 inch 1911, has a slightly longer sight radius. Hk also nicely added superlumiova sights to the gun without additional cost. That means, basically, tritium is a luxury now. The Superluminova sights are, essentially, solar powered. They retain light and glow in the dark for hours after their last charge. All you need to do is flash it with a light and you are good to go! I just flashed my front sight with my X200 and it basically turned my front sight into an Aimpoint/bigdot. Remember though, tritium is availible to if you must have it. I won’t be bothering.

I shot 50 rounds bullseye at 30 feet/10 yards. For the next 50 I then set up two targets. I practiced the Tactical Response FAST drill (well, my version) on multiple targets at 21 and 30 feet. Since I don’t have a proper holster I used an Uncle Mike’s nylon belt slide for large autoloaders. It worked nicely.

The HK45 is just as controllable as a 1911, IMHO. The sights return to zero just as quickly in my hands.

http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0324.jpghttp://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0322.jpghttp://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0319.jpghttp://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0326.jpg

The next 50 rounds were spend shooting at a 12x15 inch plate at 40 yards. The HK45 was dead on. The very prominent sights. Look at the picture above made focusing on the front sight a breeze. Ping, Ping, Ping, Ping.

The next 50 rounds was spent shooting on the move. I shot strong handed moving to the left, and with both hands moving right. The HK45 again, despite its lower weight, proved even better at this drill than my 1911. You might also note the interesting fact that my HK45 has a lighter trigger. My HK45 trigger weighs 4.5 pounds. My 1911 trigger weighs 5.7.

Also, my drill involve constant tactical mag changes (I AM A NERD). The new extra large mag release makes strong and weak handed mag changes a snap. And the extra large slide release (yes, I said slide release!) on each side make weak handed drills almost as much of a no-brainer as with a P7.

All together, I fired 250 rounds through my HK45 today. As expected, it did not malfunction. It put every piece of brass 6-10 foot to my right and back.

The HK45 will probably feed anything. I noticed no bullet set-back even when rechambering ball multiple times. There was never any “feeling” of the action straining to feed a round like I can sense in a 1911.

Anyway, 250-300 more tomorrow including a lot of hollowpoints I have been saving.

rubberneck

11-17-07, 20:15

A pistol I want. Pretty straightforward.

That is as good a reason as any I suppose.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-17-07, 20:20

God, just think how few custom 1911s would sell if people made decisons based on raw utility and value.

Peacekeeper1408

11-17-07, 21:38

I got mine for $899 FWIW

armakraut

11-17-07, 21:57

It's damn nice to have visual confirmation that the HK45 is indeed still a slim sucker.

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70210

John_Wayne777

11-19-07, 10:09

It looks like a very nice weapon.

Thanks for the writeup!

How is the trigger on the HK45???

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-19-07, 11:05

Single action is 4.5 pounds with minor takeup. This is as measured by my trigger-pull scale. No creep.

Double action is approximately 12 pounds. Heavy but no creep. Not that anyone is going to carry it in DA.

John_Wayne777

11-19-07, 11:14

So I guess that if someone was to ask me "What 1911 should I get in the 1,000 dollar range" the answer would now have to be "An HK45."

Most of the 1911's good points without the QC problems a lot of makers have these days.

:D

[flame suit: ON]

Edit -- I can't believe there are people in internetland who are freaking out over the "Spider-man-esque" grip....because that's the most important aspect of a weapon...how the grip looks.....

graffex

11-19-07, 12:00

SHIVAN

11-19-07, 14:16

Just to confirm, the decocker is NOT activated by the thumb safety - right?

Like on the P30, it's located on the back of the slide?

subzero

11-19-07, 16:06

SHIVAN

11-19-07, 16:13

Shivan, the model that LAV had out for all the demos (at least at the classes I've been to) had a decocker that was activated by the safety. It bit me twice in one magazine. He said there is (or will be) a version where the safety is just a safety, but I don't know version numbers. An HK fag would know though.

Ouch, quit it.... :p

Variant 9 is the manual safety ONLY, no decocker on USP's. I thought the P30 used a slide mounted decocker....

Hmm, does the thumb safety on the P30 also decock for TWO decock locations?

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-19-07, 17:15

Edit -- I can't believe there are people in internetland who are freaking out over the "Spider-man-esque" grip....because that's the most important aspect of a weapon...how the grip looks.....
__________________

Well, let's face it. When somebody says they are choosing this or that gun based on looks, you have to take everything else they say a little less seriously.:rolleyes:

Shivan,

I have a HK45. The decocking function requires a much, much more positive push than the USP series. I have one and just confirmed that. I can't speak to LAV's prototype, but it would require a fair amount of ham-handedness to pull it off on the production model. A

Tuukka

11-19-07, 17:29

Well, let's face it. When somebody says they are choosing this or that gun based on looks, you have to take everything else they say a little less seriously.:rolleyes:

Shivan,

I have a HK45. The decocking function requires a much, much more positive push than the USP series. I have one and just confirmed that. I can't speak to LAV's prototype, but it would require a fair amount of ham-handedness to pull it off on the production model. A

If the decocker is as stiff as on the USPs, I would not see it as an issue.

In nine years I have never accidentally decocked the weapon when firing or manipulating my USP.

SHIVAN

11-19-07, 18:26

I have a HK45. The decocking function requires a much, much more positive push than the USP series.

On what do you push?? The decocking lever, or a lever/button on the slide?

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-19-07, 20:47

Tuukka,

I totally agree. But some folks claim to have problems. Honestly, people can always find something not to like if they look hard enough.

Shivan,

It is the safety lever, like the USP. It just requires quite a push to decock it.

SHIVAN

11-19-07, 21:09

Thanks. I'll probably wait for the prices to calm down around here and also wait for the Variant 9.

I've owned 6 USP's, once I started shooting 1911's, I started riding the thumb safety a bit and my well used USP's started decocking randomly on me.

No big deal, it's easily solved with the right variant.

Thanks.

subzero

11-19-07, 21:46

It just requires quite a push to decock it.

Or you could simply ride it while shooting, as though it were a 1911 thumb safety. That'll decock it pretty efficiently in the middle of trying to pull off controlled pair.

once I started shooting 1911's, I started riding the thumb safety a bit and my well used USP's started decocking randomly on me.

Glad it's not just me.

RAM Engineer

11-19-07, 21:47

Would you say that the decocker would STILL pose no problem for those of us who ride the safety on a 1911 like a gas pedal? I'd hate to be holding down a decocker during cycling.

Whoops! Beat to the punch by Subzero.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-19-07, 22:15

Well, I am quite the 1911 lover too, and it has never been a problem for me. However, if you can't do it you can't do it. Obviously, for some of you guys it is a problem.

armakraut

11-19-07, 22:18

Anyone have an idea on the ETA of the LEM trigger HK45?

SHIVAN

11-19-07, 22:25

Well, I am quite the 1911 lover too, and it has never been a problem for me. However, if you can't do it you can't do it. Obviously, for some of you guys it is a problem.

I got out of USP's due to the trigger feel, but loved the HK45 I shot...

So I will get an HK45 without a doubt. It won't be a problem, not at all.

If the decock presents "issues" there will most likely be the Variant fix coming down the road to eliminate it completely.

FWIW, I have trained with at least two guys who have SNAPPED Ed Brown Hardcore and Wilson Bulletproof thumb safeties on their 1911's.

We are all different. :D

John_Wayne777

11-20-07, 07:29

FWIW, I have trained with at least two guys who have SNAPPED Ed Brown Hardcore and Wilson Bulletproof thumb safeties on their 1911's.

Do these guys know that "firm grip on the weapon" doesn't mean trying to choke it to death?

Robb Jensen

11-20-07, 07:46

Only 30-40% of your grip pressure should come from you shooting hand. The other 60-70% is from your support/weak hand.

SHIVAN

11-20-07, 09:22

VA_Dinger

11-20-07, 09:35

Robb Jensen

11-20-07, 09:44

I understand, just relaying information that not all shooters are as perfect as JW777 and gotm4....;)

FWIW, the two guys who broke them were pretty proficient with their pistols at all distances inside of 100yds.

I'm far from perfect...........I've just learned from some of the very best.

SHIVAN

11-20-07, 10:08

I called HK customer service yesterday (Mark Swisser) to ask about the variant nine & match trigger HK45 parts.

“They are both in the works but we do not have a solid date when they will be ready yet” was what he told me. Considering the gun just arrived at dealers this week, I can live with that.

Understandable, and fine with me. If I find one in the mid-800's, I will buy the Variant 1 in the meantime. When the Variant 9 comes out, I will probably send it back to HK and have them swap it out.

Having never called HK before and reading years of customer service horror stories, I was pleasantly surprised. Mr. Swisser (SP?) called me back inside of thirty minutes and answered all of my questions very politely and professional. I can say that’s another HK Internet forum fairy tail down the tubes.

He probably has your name on a list of people to call back immediately. :D :D

Robb Jensen

11-20-07, 10:13

Understandable, and fine with me. If I find one in the mid-800's, I will buy the Variant 1 in the meantime. When the Variant 9 comes out, I will probably send it back to HK and have them swap it out.

I'll be certified as a HK pistol armorer in March 08. If it's as easy as it is on the USP it's a $12 plate and 2 min of work. HK charges $75 labor to convert variants on USPs plus the cost of the part (I know how but don't due to liability, not certified).

John_Wayne777

11-20-07, 10:51

I understand, just relaying information that not all shooters are as perfect as JW777 and gotm4....;)

FWIW, the two guys who broke them were pretty proficient with their pistols at all distances inside of 100yds.

Lord knows I ain't perfect....

It's just that when I break my stuff it is usually not the result of trying to squeeze fresh OJ out of it....:D

SHIVAN

11-20-07, 10:58

It's just that when I break my stuff it is usually not the result of trying to squeeze fresh OJ out of it....:D

^^^that's pretty funny^^^

...but man, you guys sure are sensitive today. Are you guys "cycling" together or something?

:) :p :p :)

Robb Jensen

11-20-07, 11:11

^^^that's pretty funny^^^

...but man, you guys sure are sensitive today. Are you guys "cycling" together or something?

:) :p :p :)

No not spinning it's Pilates........:o

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-20-07, 11:40

Most of the horror stories were from before HK moved their service to Trussville. Old HK basically consisted of a robotic guy named Sean. He seemed to hate his job, and hate everyone who called. Still, the few times I called to ask question (and one time to get my P7 rebuilt) he was efficient and businesslike. Some people just aren't people persons, but God knows why they are in CS.

Hawkeye

11-20-07, 14:04

I got to handle a HK45 today. Appeared to be typical HK solid construction. Having owned a fair share of USP's I know what to expect from HK. I did like the redsigned shape of the slide, and the feel of the grip. It was longer than a USP 45, but narrower all the way around. Couple of small things that I didnt like, and these are purely a personal fit/comfort thing.... The safety was in a bad spot for me. Too high to ride my thumb on like I do a 1911, too low to ride my thumb under. Another was the trigger. The double action was fairly heavy, as noted. Single action was very nice. The trigger reset was another issue. There was a really odd "false" reset to it, that you could feel it click, as well as hear it audibly, but it wasnt the actual reset. Practice no doubt would take of this I suspect.
Overall, it seems to be a solid weapon. A few small issues just made it a less than perfect fit for me.

John_Wayne777

11-20-07, 14:09

No not spinning it's Pilates........:o

That's all we need.

The thought of me doing pilates.....

Dude....people could be scarred for life.

I just find the idea of somebody snapping a safety to be fascinating. I've broken stuff in a lot of ways (including taking stuff apart too far and not putting it back together right) but somebody gripping a weapon so hard that they snap a thumb safety is something even *I* couldn't accomplish without a vise and a really big hammer.

Razoreye

11-20-07, 22:51

I'm still interested but why in the hell did they have to gay up the grip from the original design? I don't discriminate buying guns that aren't pretty but I don't try to buy pretty guns either lol.

Jim D

11-21-07, 01:15

We just got them in our store...I had a chance to put a few rounds through one.
It really doesn't do anything for me.

Same HK cust. service
Same high bore axis
Same crappy triggers (P7 and P9S's are the exception here)
Same overly expensive gun/ parts/ mags
Same low capacity mags (relative to other available options)

I don't get it. I never understood the appeal of HK...it just feels like a USP with an improved grip.

I will admit that the grip on the P30's and the HK45 are comfortable...it's just the rest of the gun which I have an issue liking.

Jim D

11-21-07, 01:16

I'm still interested but why in the hell did they have to gay up the grip from the original design? I don't discriminate buying guns that aren't pretty but I don't try to buy pretty guns either lol.

Other than the new grip....why would you want the new one over the regular USP .45...other than novelty?

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-21-07, 01:28

Razor,

They brought in Karl Nill to improve the ergonomics of the grip.

Cool,

"Same HK cust. service"

Which is not the customer service of old. HK trussville is much better. And unlike some companies, they will sell you parts directly whether you are an armorer or not.

"Same high bore axis"

Actually, the bore axis is very close to that of the 1911, and the grip is cut very high up on the frame. I suspect I am one of the few people to actually have trigger time with the HK45 and I can confirm that it is a very soft shooting .45. Of course, this whole "bore axis" thing has gotten out of hand. Bruce Gray has discussed this in detail and confirms that it is shooter technique that allows rapid reacquisition of the sights, not the bore axis. If bore axis was everything we would all carry nothing but P7.

http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0319.jpg Note, the 1911 does not have a 10 round mag or a mag funnel, or an oversized trigger guard like the HK45.

"Same crappy triggers (P7 and P9S's are the exception here)"

That is inaccurate. The HK45 trigger is 4.5 pounds with very little to no creep. It weighs exactly what a carry trigger should. The Glock is 5.5 and the Smith is 6.

"Same overly expensive gun/ parts/ mags"

Hopefully this will change now that HK is setting up American production. Remember, an M&P would cost approximately $800 if it was made in Europe based on the currency exchange alone. A Wilson Combat CQB would be over $3000!! And this would be without a sight radius longer than a 1911, a hammer forged polygonal barrel, replaceable match o-ring, ambi-mag release, free superluminova sights, a grip to trigger distance almost identical to the 1911 not to mention being developed by one of the more capable firearms engineering firms with the expert input of Karl Nill, Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers.

"Same low capacity mags (relative to other available options)"

Actually, the HK45 has 10 round standard capacity with 15 round extended as an option. These aren't available yet, but the gun has been out less than a week.

Jim D

11-21-07, 02:31

P7guru,

The customer experience of late is not what I refer to... I work for an HK dealer now. We "kb!"ed one of their guns almost 6 months ago now, and have still not heard a peep about getting it replaced. The S&W's and Glock's we've "kB!"ed...we've had back in a few weeks or less. One of our employees requested a new recoil rod for his USP .45C...that took 6 months to get.

You are very right about Glock not selling parts to anyone but armorers.... Glockmeister.com fills my needs however. While we're looking at company policy though, one should consider HK's views over the past decade at civilian sales. For example the UMP/USC, and SL8-1/ G-36.

In the picture you show, you can see quite clearly where the trigger finger and middle finger would ride on both the 1911 and the HK next to it...you can see a noticeable difference. As a range officer, I see far more jams from limp wristing w/ higher bore-axis guns (Sigs and HK's) than I do with lower bore axis guns. If I had to choose between a gun that flipped more during recoil, and one that didn't...I know what choice I would make. This is a design feature I find much more important than O-Rings on my barrel.

WRT trigger pull...it really didn't feel any different to me than a USP trigger. Still broke very far back, still had a long reset, and I still felt creep. I personally don't care for DA/SA guns...but that's another issue.

As for the price justification, you cite the trigger pull as being ideal for a "carry gun" but then cite the expert input and "match o-ring" as a feature we should be paying out the nose for....I'm confused.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what this gun can do as a fighting gun, that justifies almost double the price of a Glock.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-21-07, 03:08

The customer experience of late is not what I refer to... I work for an HK dealer now. We "kb!"ed one of their guns almost 6 months ago now, and have still not heard a peep about getting it replaced. The S&W's and Glock's we've "kB!"ed...we've had back in a few weeks or less. One of our employees requested a new recoil rod for his USP .45C...that took 6 months to get.

It is a shame that you have had those problems. However, the consensus over at HKPRO, where hatred of HK customer service was near mutiny two years ago, is that customer service is on the ball now. They even have a forum where HK representaives will talk to you directly.

I had an experience with Glock that was similar to the one you describe. I bought a brand new Glock 17. It shot 3-4 inches left. Understandably, they thought it was shooter error. I am a shooter of 20 years, but hey, I tested their theory. I handed the gun off to various shooters in our club, all who verified that the gun was grotesquely out of spec. I hand delivered it to Glock in Smyrna where a Glock armorer test fired it and confirmed the problem. After nearly two months what I got back was a gun with the sights pushed almost completely off the gun with a target that said "meets Glock specs." I immediately posted this on Glocktalk and within two days I got a call from Glock asking that they be allowed to replace it. Which of course I did. The gun they sent me was perfect. Right now I know a range owner who is trying to order Glock parts and they are refusing because his cert has expired! If HK did this the outrage would never end.

While we're looking at company policy though, one should consider HK's views over the past decade at civilian sales. For example the UMP/USC, and SL8-1/ G-36.

I agree. It was decent that HK tried to import rifles despite protectionist executive orders that banned the import of non "sporterized" rifles. The 89 ban, and then the 94 ban totally shut them out of the market. We went from a market that had variety to a market dominated by domestic AR clones.This ban also kept SIG, Steyr, Galil (IMI), etc out of the market. Even though SIG had a factory in the US, even they waited for the fall of the 94 ban to make the 556. Now HK has arranged for civilian production in the US also.

In the picture you show, you can see quite clearly where the trigger finger and middle finger would ride on both the 1911 and the HK next to it...you can see a noticeable difference.

Again, I didn't say it was exactly as a 1911. However, the trigger, grip and saftey are almost exactly in the same place in relation to each other and the barrel. The picture is can be a bit misleading because of the oversized trigger guard. Even with this, the trigger's are almost exactly across from each other. As is the rear of the grip and the barrel.
http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/11/17_DAY_1%3A_250_250_files/IMG_0322.jpg

As a range officer, I see far more jams from limp wristing w/ higher bore-axis guns (Sigs and HK's) than I do with lower bore axis guns. If I had to choose between a gun that flipped more during recoil, and one that didn't...I know what choice I would make.

Well, I would agree that Glock pistols are very reliable, as are HK USPs and SIG 220s. Still, it is no coincidence that folks who use their .45 pistols in war select HK and tuned 1911s. Very few to none use the Glock or other "low-bore-axis" pistols.

WRT trigger pull...it really didn't feel any different to me than a USP trigger. Still broke very far back, still had a long reset, and I still felt creep. I personally don't care for DA/SA guns...but that's another issue.

Again, people who have the pistols are doing measurements and they are consistently coming in at 4.5 pounds with no creep. The reset is longer in the HK45, to be fair to Glock's excellent reset. Still, the HK is going to have a heck of a lot more flexibility in this department. You can get a gun that is functionally a single action "cocked and locked" with a re-strike capability (which other brands lack), or DA/SA, or DAO, or LEM (with a 4.5 pound LEM option), or a non-decocking version for the purist, etc.

As for the price justification, you cite the trigger pull as being ideal for a "carry gun" but then cite the expert input and "match o-ring" as a feature we should be paying out the nose for....I'm confused.

I don't follow you or you didn't follow me. Hmm, we aren't following.:D

I'm sorry, but I don't see what this gun can do as a fighting gun, that justifies almost double the price of a Glock.

Well hey, no need to be sorry! Each of us decides what justifies this and that in terms of price. Some folks can't justify a gun because of the price. Some folks will get a Jennings. Some folks will get a Hi-point because the Ruger is too much. Some folks will get a ruger because a Glock or XD is to much. Some folks will get a Glock because a SIG or HK is to much. Some folks will get and HK because a Wilson is too much. And so on forever and ever. I certainly believe you have your reasons and your favorites. I am lucky enough to have them all (well, except the Jennings and Hi-point):D .

Akoni

11-21-07, 10:40

When is the HK45c due out?

armakraut

11-21-07, 12:43

Spoke with HK, no LEM models until early next year.

Now that blows chunks.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-21-07, 16:42

Yeah, it looks like HK just made a limited run for the U.S. market while they set up their U.S. production. Thank God they did, people would have rioted if they delayed any more!

5POINT56

11-22-07, 20:33

I'm still interested but why in the hell did they have to gay up the grip from the original design? I don't discriminate buying guns that aren't pretty but I don't try to buy pretty guns either lol.

The grip is the best HK has ever produced IMO. Absolutely positive grip and 100% comfortable in my hand. Pretty? Don't know if I'd call it pretty...but it fits very well in my hand. Light years better than my USP.

M4Guru

11-23-07, 01:14

Well, I would agree that Glock pistols are very reliable, as are HK USPs and SIG 220s. Still, it is no coincidence that folks who use their .45 pistols in war select HK and tuned 1911s. Very few to none use the Glock or other "low-bore-axis" pistols.

Actually, the people who were famous for using tuned 1911s now use Glocks. Nobody used HK pistols unless you mean the MK23, most all of which were turned back in and mothballed as one of the worst failures in weapons procurement history (before the current war even started). Glocks have a huge following among guys with a choice.

5POINT56

11-23-07, 08:18

Actually, the people who were famous for using tuned 1911s now use Glocks. Nobody used HK pistols unless you mean the MK23, most all of which were turned back in and mothballed as one of the worst failures in weapons procurement history (before the current war even started). Glocks have a huge following among guys with a choice.

I would think SIG would make the list right along with Glock..

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-23-07, 08:49

m4guru

I know of groups that have adopted .45 HK and 1911 designs. What military unit has adopted a .45 Glock? I have never seen a reference to this.

Hey, I love all these guns, I just want to know because I am a gun trivia nerd.

DrMark

11-23-07, 09:32

m4guru

I know of groups that have adopted .45 HK and 1911 designs. What military unit has adopted a .45 Glock?
He did not say the Glocks were 45s.

M4Guru

11-23-07, 09:41

True, I did not say the Glocks were .45ACP, I said the 1911s were traded for Glocks.

I know of no US unit using HK pistols. As far as .45s as everyone is aware certain Marine elements carry 1911s and a lot of Army Special Forces teams use them also. I can say firsthand most of the Army's 1911s I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. It is a common misconception that 1911 parts are "drop-in" and none of the guns really run well thanks to some team-room gunsmithing. I left mine CONUS for this trip, and carry a G19 instead. Everyone I know carries their Beretta or a G19.

My point being this statement is very, very far from the truth.

Very few to none use the Glock or other "low-bore-axis" pistols.

I have no doubts the HK45 is a good gun, I may look into one when I get back to the states. I never liked the high bore line on the USP or it's poor ergonomics but they appear to have addressed that with the new one. I liked the P2000 a lot, though, so this one may be worth looking into.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-23-07, 16:33

M4,
LOL. I think most internet argument is caused by people not talking about the same thing. You said that my statement that: "Very few to none use the Glock or other "low-bore-axis" pistols." was far from being true. Of course it is! But what I said was "Still, it is no coincidence that folks who use their .45 pistols in war select HK and tuned 1911s. Very few to none use the Glock or other "low-bore-axis" pistols." I was talking about .45 pistols. I of course recognize that Glocks in 9mm are used by some foreign military units and our Asymetrical warfare guys. Of course, the king of high bore axis, the Beretta, is the dominant handgun in our military. Again though, my point was, in .45 it is pretty much a 1911 world with a few HKs thrown in. Anyway, sorry for the miscommunication.:D

If you like the P2000, you will flat out love the HK45. The grip is actually slightly smaller than the Glock 19's in circumference (but not quite as small as the P2000). I really can't get over the grip on this gun. It is butt-ugly but is very, very close to the 1911 A1 in your hand.

VA_Dinger

11-23-07, 17:03

Greg Bell, Thanks for your review on the HK45.

It sure is nice to have someone with your obviously high level of HK knowledge around for discussions on the HK45. You are an asset to M4C, no question about it.

I cannot wait to buy one.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-23-07, 17:55

Thanks VA! I strongly suspect you will like it. :D

M4Guru

11-23-07, 22:10

I'm looking into waiting for a LEM trigger/FDE variant to be released, since I don't really care for the manual safety. I had an M&P 45 that I got rid of due to the thumb safety and I'd like to pass on that feature if I spend $800 on one of these.

I bet the grip will be nice with a Bowie Tactical stipple job. I have 17 Glocks, so I obviously don't care how ugly my gun is...

Do these use standard USP sights?

DrMark

11-23-07, 22:50

I'm looking into waiting for a LEM trigger/FDE variant to be released, since I don't really care for the manual safety. I had an M&P 45 that I got rid of due to the thumb safety...

On the HK45 (and the M&P for that matter) what is it that turned you off to the thumb safeties -- their location, their operation, or the fact that they were on the guns in the first place?

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-23-07, 22:58

M4,

1. The LEM kits are supposed to be available early next year. Some folks have installed USP kits with mixed results. The manual lists a 4.5 pound LEM:D and the standard 7 pound LEM.

2. The sights are new. They are sort of EURO Novak sights. They jack the rear dots all the way to the back of the slide so that it actually has a slightly longer sight radius than a 1911. The box-stock sights have superluminova dots, so they work as night sights for a few hours after they were exposed to sights (It is the same stuff as on watches). If you don't like them you can get tritium or click adjustable sights. They are snag-free so you will not be doing any one handed reloads with the rear site.

M4Guru

11-23-07, 23:01

Mark,

The fact that they were there in the first place. On a 1911 you have to have one (obviously) since it's SA. On the Glock/M&P/HK I'm comfortable with having no active safety.

The one on my M&P (s/n MPR00003) was not positive and the trigger was horrible. I liked the gun, and will revisit it at another time without the thumb safety. It did not make me want to retire my Glock 21 enough to put time/money into it. Maybe without the safety, 10-8 sights, and a Bowie trigger job we'll have something.

Greg,

Thanks for the info. My P2000 wore the 4.5 LEM and it was great. I keep Heinie sights on all my guns so hopefully they will be an option at some point. If not I will try out the adjustable ones.

DrMark

11-23-07, 23:34

armakraut

11-25-07, 00:47

I got my paw-paws on an HK45 today. Good news is people with medium to large size hands will be able to get their hands around this one and reach the trigger with ease (even on double action). Bad news is the mag release is still only compatible with Jimmy Hendrix types with long fingers, which is a real god damned disappointment. The mag release needs to be extended, otherwise a normal person can not release a magazine without drastically changing their grip.

Most of the time my hands take a glove in size "large", neither one of my thumbs can touch the release fully extended. If you are able to hit the mag release during normal operation, the mags do fall out very nicely.

Size wise the gun is like most people have mentioned, very 1911 like in most respects and feels good in the hand, despite the incredibly odd looking grip design. The bottom of the magazine protrudes a noticeable amount and I would have liked a more flush design. It looks like a 20% compromise between a browning hi power mag floorplate and that of a cordless power drill. Then again, both 1911's and HK45's were not exactly designed with an emphasis on concealed carry. Besides, I'd like to think it's mark a of maturity to not immediately refuse to use something for vapid ugliness alone. I mean, by gosh, it might actually work better than the other stuff on the market.

Nice trigger and I mean that with all sincerity, probably one of the better double actions I've seen on a browning based pistol. The HK's have always showed a lot of refinement and attention to detail that you just can't get on most other modern pistols these days. If I get one, I'll wait for the LEM HK45C and make sure I can reach the mag release, but if I was in the market for traditional style DA pistol, this would be the one.

If full size USP's either don't fit you, or you have limited experience the USP, I'd highly recommend getting your hands around an HK45 before slapping down greenbacks. Then again, I'd recommend this with any unfamiliar pistol.

NCPatrolAR

11-25-07, 10:04

Bad news is the mag release is still only compatible with Jimmy Hendrix types with long fingers, which is a real god damned disappointment. The mag release needs to be extended, otherwise a normal person can not release a magazine without drastically changing their grip.

Most of the time my hands take a glove in size "large", neither one of my thumbs can touch the release fully extended. If you are able to hit the mag release during normal operation, the mags do fall out very nicely.

If I'm not mistaken, the lever style mag release were designed to be operated with your index fingers; not your thumbs. This is the best way I've learn to run guns with those style releases.

Joe R.

11-25-07, 10:41

If I'm not mistaken, the lever style mag release were designed to be operated with your index fingers; not your thumbs. This is the best way I've learn to run guns with those style releases.

You got it in one there MILFster. The HK style releases on the USP and HK45 are to be activated with the strong hand index finger.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-25-07, 10:58

Just like most things, it is just a matter of what you are used to. I have medium/smallish hands so operating the mag release on a 1911, SIG or Glock has always required my changing my grip. However, my first gun was a P7M8, which has a mag release much like the HK45, so I have always dropped my mag with my strong hand index finger. With both, I can drop the mag either my index finger or my support hand thumb. You can do a tac load with the HK45 with your support thumb while grasping the HUGE rubber baseplate as you remove it. Obviously, the great advantage of the HK is that it is truly ambi (and an ambi safety is coming soon for those who prefer this).

armakraut

11-25-07, 15:36

Funny you should mention the index finger, that was basically the only way I could get the magazine out with regularity, at anything approaching a timely manner.

The release wouldn't have to be extended a whole lot for a guy with normal hands to hit it using their thumb.

The P30 and P45 show HK is making a good effort to fix some long standing ergonomics issues people had with their handguns.

olds442tyguy

11-25-07, 18:03

Greg, just curious, are you going to do any destructive testing? I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything like say Steve at ADCO did, but I think you'll be turning blue in the face before you "break" that gun just from shooting it under typical circumstances. :cool:

I still haven't had the chance to even hold one yet. I absolutely loathe the looks of the grip, but nothing's perfect.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-25-07, 19:00

Olds,

I didn't like the look either. However, once you feel it, you will see why they did it. HK really doesn't seem to consider "looks" at all in its gun design, which is really how it should be.

I do not plan to shoot the gun, or throw it in a lava pit. I will shoot it dirty, muddy, etc. Most folks appreciated my realistic P2000 torture test.

IrishDevil

11-25-07, 20:49

Got my hands on the HK45 yesterday, I have to concur on the reach for the mag release. I liked it overall, but I'll have to wait on a variant without the decock as it seemed to decock somewhat easily, I like to ride the safety like on a 1911. I've had some decock problems with a friends USP in the past. I'll likely buy one as I liked it, and the trigger was pretty good. I'll be happy with my M&P45 in the meantime though. Local shop was asking $929, I'll have to wait for a price drop too.

SHIVAN

11-25-07, 20:57

I have pretty big hands. As in the G21 and USP45 are comfy for me.

On all the pistols I own, I articulate the pistol for mag changes. G17, G19, 1911's, M&P45, & 92fs. I can reach them with my thumb Ok, but I don't get near the positive feel I get when I move the pistol up into the "work space" for mag changes.

Renegade

11-25-07, 21:07

$830 at the Market Hall Gun Show in Dallas this weekend. I passed, will wait for the HK45 Tactical.

armakraut

11-25-07, 22:31

Hopefully someone will either make an extended release, or the compact model will let me get a little bit of my thumb on there.

Decocking wasn't exactly a chore, but I'd imagine there's enough force required that it's a non-issue.

I have a feeling these will be pretty popular guns.

VA_Dinger

12-16-07, 16:10

I got to handle another HK45 Friday. My local dealer finally had one stay in stock for more than a day. Surprisingly (at least for this shop) it was price very reasonably at $899 and I can probably work a deal with some effort to keep it around $900 even with taxes added.

Based on nothing more than two five minute fondle sessions I seem to like the HK45 rear of trigger guard mag catch design. When I was told the shop had one in stock I drove over specifically to try this out for myself so I could make a more educated buying decision. When using my trigger finger it seemed very quick and easy. I had no trouble dropping mags very quickly. I can also see why the long time HK fans strongly prefer the new HK45 version. I tried the same tests on a used USP 9mm they had in stock and did not like it at all. It seems the larger and more ergonomic HK45 version makes all the difference.

The only thing that bothers me:

Someone I trust without question pointed out that I would be throwing away years of conventional mag catch muscle memory. No doubt that is something to consider, especially when this would be my only handgun using this design.

variablebinary

12-16-07, 17:22

I havent had trigger time with the HK45 yet, just fondled at my fav, took it apart, and gave it a good look over

It still doesnt fit my hand especially well like most hi-cap .45's but it struck me as being a well built firearm, and about as impressive as everything else HK does. They dont half ass anything they do.

I really like HK products.

John_Wayne777

12-17-07, 06:42

Someone I trust without question pointed out that I would be throwing away years of conventional mag catch muscle memory. No doubt that is something to consider, especially when this would be my only handgun using this design.

Personally I don't think you have any worries there. YMMV, but I never had a moments trouble switching between the two.

The Dumb Gun Collector

12-18-07, 23:42

I wouldn't sweat it. I go between my 1911s and HK45 constantly. It just isn't an issue. I have competed with my P2000, Glock 17 and Colt 1911 and I have found that the mag switch issue is basically non-existent.

Jim D

12-19-07, 00:13

Mark,

The fact that they were there in the first place. On a 1911 you have to have one (obviously) since it's SA. On the Glock/M&P/HK I'm comfortable with having no active safety.

The M&P is single action, too. You just can't see the striker the way you can see a hammer.

With the M&P you essentially have a "series 80" 1911, cocked and unlocked, with the grip safety replaced by a trigger safety...or an XD with no grip safety.

VA_Dinger

01-02-08, 08:46

crowkiller

01-02-08, 19:41

I gave up fighting the urge to buy one. So just before Christmas I put an HK45 on lay-away at a local shop until after the holidays. I got it for $899 which seemed decent enough. Especially considering this shop normally sucks for prices.

Now I just need the V9 configuration conversion parts (manual thumb safety is safe/fire only with no decock function).

Plus the USP Expert/Tactical match trigger option would be nice.

The SA triggerpull on my HK45 is better than my old USP45f, it seems to be lighter and with less overtravel. My Tactical seems to be a little better than the HK45 but Im not wild about the screw on it.ymmv

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-03-08, 10:18

Good news VA! I really think you will like it. Although I only have about 2500 rounds through mine, I seriously think it makes an excellent combat pistol--a worthy heir to the 1911.

Steelshooter

01-03-08, 16:40

The cheapest price I have seen in Phoenix is $1139.00. They said it was supply and demand.

graffex

01-03-08, 17:29

The cheapest price I have seen in Phoenix is $1139.00. They said it was supply and demand.

Yikes :eek:

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-03-08, 17:37

That price is INSANE!!! No way. Wait till the rush is off and these things will be in the $800 range. Even lower when Wilcox gets the line going.:D

Steelshooter

01-03-08, 18:30

Yeah....I'm kind of interested in one but not at that price. I also saw a dark earth M&P, non night sight for $650...:eek:

S-1

01-05-08, 00:07

Are there any holsters available for the HK45 yet?

Steelshooter

01-05-08, 00:10

I have heard Bladetech will have one soon. There are people here who can answer that question better than me though.

Steelshooter

01-05-08, 01:31

Disagree. A low bore axis is preferable for less muzzle rise and a better inline connected feel. Bruce should argue the point with others who like a low bore axis including many very well known trainers/industry pro's who are also combat veterans. The 1911 bore axis is not especially low btw. Compare a Glock and M&P grip to a 1911.

Razor,
Of course, this whole "bore axis" thing has gotten out of hand. Bruce Gray has discussed this in detail and confirms that it is shooter technique that allows rapid reacquisition of the sights, not the bore axis. If bore axis was everything we would all carry nothing but P7.

VA_Dinger

01-05-08, 01:40

I wonder how many guys would even be mentioning “Bore Axis” in every HK45 discussion if Mr. Hackathorn and LAV had not mentioned their attempts to make it lower in several magazine articles?

IMO: Everybody read the same articles and now it’s on their minds and something to talk about.

I’ve never seen it made into such an issue before.

FYI: The HK45’s bore axis is virtually identical to a non-beavertail grip safety 1911 and that’s pretty damn good in my opinion. In my opinion this was a small price to pay to gain all of the HK trigger configurations modularity. Not to mention the level of shooter you would have to be to have this actually effect your shooting? I suspect it would take a top 3-5% shooter to even be qualified to comment on it.

Steelshooter

01-05-08, 02:22

It's been discussed and debated for years long before anyone heard of an Hk 45. It's been a concern of some pistol designers for a long time. It is a principal factor brought up regarding Glocks. A whole lot of effort for a whole lot of years has gone into designing 1911 grip safeties that allow for a high grip. One of the advantages Sig touts for their new beavertail Sig's is getting a higher grip. Anyway I don't consider the HK 45 to have an especially high bore axis compared to a USP or Sig. I can get my hand up just below the bottom of the slide on an HK 45. Can't do that on a 1911. As far as being "qualified" to comment on it, it has nothing to do with your score in gun games. It has to do with how well the pistol handles for you, especially during rapid fire. As far as non-beavertail grip safeties I was issued so equipped 1911's for a whole lot of years in the Marine Corps and I don't see how you compare that bore axis to the HK 45.

Take a look at Greg Bells pics of a HK 45 and beavertail 1911 for comparison.
http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/12/2_Clash_of_the_Titans.html

Army Chief

01-05-08, 14:59

Fully understand the context of the various price objections that have been raised throughout this thread given the state of the American market, but before you guys get too spun up about paying $900, take a look at this:

http://www.frankonia.de/shop//_/search/45/start/0/view/product/window/1/sort/norm/isortiment/Kurzwaffen/so/all//start/1/search.html

http://www.frankonia.de/shop//_/search/45c/start/0/view/product/window/1/sort/norm/isortiment/Kurzwaffen/so/all/search.html

The moral of the story is that the HK 45 and 45C are selling for 1,249 Euro here in Germany, and at today's exchange rates, that actually equates to $1,842!!

Now, I'm not suggesting that $900 isn't expensive when there are worthy (and less costly) alternatives to be had, but from the perspective of the German shooter, the "Amis" are getting them for half price. So much for the notion that you can pick up an HK cheaper in the Vaterland than you can at home, eh?

Chief

armakraut

01-05-08, 16:15

From what I understand, a lot of what constitutes the out-the-door price in europe is tax.

After holding the HK45 and S&W M&P45, I'm going with the Smith. They seem to have coordinated a bit better with accessory makers when they launched, not to mention the pistol's controls are easier to reach.

If HK gets their ducks in a row by mid to late this year, I might consider them again for the compact LEM model.

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-05-08, 20:53

Steel,

I am just reporting what Bruce, a VERY successful competition shooter says. He may not be a popular trainer/ex-spec ops guy, but he knows how to shoot guns and how they work.

Again, I am just saying, like Bruce, the whole issue is overblown, usually by people who want to push their pet gun. Competition, where the issue would be most apparent, doesn't seem bear this concern out.

Army Chief

01-06-08, 01:53

From what I understand, a lot of what constitutes the out-the-door price in europe is tax.

That's at least partly correct. In the U.S., when you see an advertised or store price, it is invariably (and somewhat irritatingly) always a "before tax" price; in Germany, when you see an advertised or store price, already includes the rather stiff 19% Federal excise tax. There are ways of legally avoiding the tax as an American citizen, but the current exchange rate is really wreaking havoc on our buying power.

All I was really trying to convey, however, is that there isn't a lot of truth to the commonly-held belief that German firearms and related equipment are less expensive in Germany. These days, the opposite tends to be true.

Chief

armakraut

01-06-08, 02:46

Yep, the VAT type taxes over there are pretty brutal. It's also not uncommon for foreign governments to subsidize corporations that sell their products overseas, or at least wave otherwise applicable taxes. I don't know if they do this with firearms. I'd imagine a good number of countries with growing arms industries do this, they'd be crazy not to.

Saiga's and the like have been more expensive over in europe. The euro gained a bit on the dollar, like other currencies have.

If the HK45 fits someones needs perfectly, then it's well worth the $900.

Hopefully the HK45C LEM will make a better impression on me than the full size did.

Steelshooter

01-13-08, 20:55

I'm no longer lusting for the HK 45. I got a chance to put a couple hundred rounds through one and found a decent local price at $949. It's a real nice pistol in a lot of ways but the price is out of line. I don't like the high bore axis, sights, mag release or the trigger. What is with those grooves on the bottom of the trigger guard? The thumb safety is also poorly positioned for me and gets in my way. Finally it just doesn't come to hand as readily as my M&P .45's. It feels top heavy and thus a little clunky.

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-13-08, 21:31

I don't like the high bore axis, sights, mag release or the trigger. What is with those grooves on the bottom of the trigger guard? The thumb safety is also poorly positioned for me and gets in my way.

Man, so other than that you like it?:D

Just kidding, I guess it is M&P for you. The HK45 has roughly the same bore-axis as the 1911, which is what I am used to. The mag release works well with my hands because I have small ones and it allows me to release the mag without changing hand positions (which I can't do with my 1911). My thumb rests on the thumb safety as a 1911, but again, that is what I am used to. Finally, I am really enjoying the trigger on my Hk45, which is set at 4.5 pounds exactly like my Colt (well, my fullsize, my Novak's is 3.4).

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Mine is closing in on 3000 rounds without a malfunction (and I stopped cleaning it some time back).
http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2008/1/12_X300_files/shapeimage_2.jpg

Steelshooter

01-13-08, 23:02

I think its an extremely well made pistol that will last forever, love the grip, like the slide, like the mags, really like the slide release controls. I have big hands so in general I like big pistols. If it wasn't for the M&P .45 I would have bought an HK. The M&P thumb safety is also in the way for me btw so neither of mine have one. I think a lot of people do and will like the HK 45 and I expect it to do quite well. Especially when and if the prices come down. If it makes you feel any better it was your pictures and commentary here and elsewhere that got me interested in the pistol. Do you use the DA trigger or SA only?

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-13-08, 23:30

I carry it cocked and locked. I almost never shoot it DA.

JLM

01-18-08, 19:09

When are the FDE guns coming out?

Hrm, I really DID like my USP 40F, reading this has lessened my yearning for the M&P somewhat.

Mjolnir

01-28-08, 11:50

$851 out of the door; NIB, Never Fired. Guy was behind on taxes; bought it last week and sold it this weekend. I just happened to be behind the counter. He paid $989 for it from another store. We offered $800 and stated $850 reminding myself, "DON'T bite him! Offer him a way out of his predicament". $1 to tranfer it through the books and she's now got 50 fast and furious rounds through it.

Nice. Less muzzle flip than USP45 Tactical from what I recall. Returns to point of aim seemingly quicker than I ever recalled the USP45 Tactical doing. Perhaps the P2K-type recoil system allows for a faster slide/less damping that the improved grip offsets???? I dunno

Trigger

Heavy DA. Pull through as if rowing a boat and it's fine though not as nice as the P30's DA pull.

SA is light. But it offers little "feel". That was one thing that turned me off about the USP45 Tactical. Perhaps I'm looney on this one but I feel that I'm adding pressure and "BANG!" Looking back I did not use the Tactical much at all - maybe 1,000 rounds over 6 years of ownership - so I believe it was/is more unfamiliarity than anything else, really.

Ergonomics

Much improved over the USP45. Still not where I'd like it to be. The grip size is a bit large toward the mag well for me. A 1911 (for me) it aint, but it's infinitely doable. I would accept fewer rounds if it felt like the P30, though.

The safety lever shape/location isn't quite right for me but I can adapt (hey, I am human afterall). I *think* I'd like it higher like a 1911's would be. This would make it "damned near perfect" for me.

Accuracy and Shootability

The gun shoots well and is more accurate than I expected it to be. It's about as accurate as my Springfield TRP, but when shooting rapidly it's not as nice as my slightly customized (higher grip safety, arched mainspring housing) Springfield TRP mind you, but it's close enough for a polymer .45 ACP pistol. I was able to shoot 0.2 second splits while shooting at 5 yards while maintaing just over fist sized groups. That's about what I do with the TRP so I'd say it "shoots as well" as the lightly warmed over 1911.

Concealability

I dunno here. It's still somehow larger than a 1911 - or at least my perception is that it is. I think RAVEN CONCEALMENT SYSTEMS could produce a nice modular kydex holster for it, though. www.ravenconcealment.com

Summary

Very well done. Improved in many aspects (e.g., ergos, shootability), accurate, handsome (to me anyway) I think the operators who will deploy with them will have a very nice pistol that should not require the armorer for every eight pistols or so that 1911s do require.

Now, the $64,000 Question: If I could have only one (HK45 or lightly modded SA TRP) which would it be:

For me it would be the 1911. Better still ergos, better dissipation of recoil, better trigger, ever so slightly better accuracy (but we're splitting fine hairs here), better concealability, cheaper mags, more satisfaction of owning.

But then I was under no illusions of the HK being a replacement for 1911s in a civilian application.

For those who have the opportunity to shoot one please do. I find it a "better" overall pistol than the M&P45, Glock 21 SF and XD45.

IrishDevil

01-28-08, 21:22

I got to run 2 mags through one at the Vickers class in TX. I liked it, handled well, but I'll wait for the non-decocker model. I ride the safety, and was decocking it while shooting, I think it's the Variant 9 I'm wanting. At the same time I shot an M&P 45 with a Bowie trigger job, I immediately decided that my M&P needs a trigger job. It was a nice and smooth pull, firm reset. I'll end up with an HK 45, with the safety only option. Also, Larry said that the HK 45 is the only "out the box" 45 he'd go to war with, because of the testing it went through.

RAM Engineer

01-28-08, 23:27

I'm waiting on either a Variant 9 or a LEM trigger also. 10-8 rear sights would be great as well!

Ed L.

01-29-08, 02:25

At the same time I shot an M&P 45 with a Bowie trigger job, I immediately decided that my M&P needs a trigger job. It was a nice and smooth pull, firm reset.

The Bowie trigger jobs are addictive. I tried a stock M&P45 and it had a horrible trigger! Then I tried an M&P45 with a Bowie SC trigger job and it was a whole different gun.

John_Wayne777

01-29-08, 07:19

The Bowie trigger jobs are addictive. I tried a stock M&P45 and it had a horrible trigger! Then I tried an M&P45 with a Bowie SC trigger job and it was a whole different gun.

I'll give a hearty Amen! to that notion.

The difference in the trigger on my Burwell customized M&P and a stock M&P is night and day. It makes the weapon MUCH easier to shoot, in my opinion.

GlockWRX

01-29-08, 11:40

I carry it cocked and locked. I almost never shoot it DA.

Do you ride the safety when you shoot? Have you had issues with decocking the gun during recoil?

PS: I was going to ask if you have a problem with 'premature decocking', but that sounded too disgusting and personal.

mpardun

01-29-08, 13:16

The Bowie trigger jobs are addictive. I tried a stock M&P45 and it had a horrible trigger! Then I tried an M&P45 with a Bowie SC trigger job and it was a whole different gun.

Dan Burwell did a great 3.5 to 4lb trigger on my M&P45 and it is the closest to a 1911 trigger I've shot (in plastic guns).

That said, I still think I want the HK45C when it ships...the HK45 is still ergonomically challenged IMHO.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z302/mpardun/MPs_MandP45.jpg

John_Wayne777

01-29-08, 13:38

That's a fine looking blaster.....

VA_Dinger

01-31-08, 14:41

I just read that the HK45C's are now in the country and going to be available shortly.

I will be very interested in trying one out.

wild_wild_wes

01-31-08, 22:18

Anyone know if these are going to be available with Tan and/or Green frames? The prototype I saw had a Tan frame.

SuicideHz

01-31-08, 22:36

Anyone know if these are going to be available with Tan and/or Green frames? The prototype I saw had a Tan frame.

I think that was spraypaint- that is, if it was the one at last year's Shot. The paint was peeling off of a lot of the spraypainted magazine pads.

Tspeis

02-01-08, 01:40

I just read that the HK45C's are now in the country and going to be available shortly.

I will be very interested in trying one out.

The HK45C with Surefire X300 and extended 10 round mags would be one sweet little blaster! I'm holding out for the threaded barrel variants. :cool:

Tspeis

The Dumb Gun Collector

02-01-08, 11:04

Yeah, the 45c is on my short list of blasters to get. I also need a Luger and a BHP!:D

maywoodmoose

02-04-08, 14:36

Does anyone know if they are going to have a LEM versoin of the gun. I have it on my USP 45 (duty) and my USP compact 40 (CCW) and love it. it gets rid of the hammerdrop safty but does not make the weapon double action only.

VA_Dinger

02-04-08, 14:51

I’ve been told HK trigger variant conversion parts will be available shortly.

- I’m eagerly waiting for the Variant 9 parts myself.

NCPatrolAR

02-11-08, 22:41

I finally had a chance to handle one of the HK45s today. I didnt need to put any rounds through it to come to the realization that the gun isnt for me. While the grip felt pretty comfortable, I found other features of the pistol not to my liking. The channel the trigger travels through pinched my finger and I detest the magazine release lever. I could possible deal with the trigger pinch, but the mag lever is a no-go.

The single action trigger pull was pretty nice on it though. :)

NCPatrolAR

02-11-08, 22:55

The HK45 I was looking at was $995

Steelshooter

02-11-08, 22:59

Yeah thats not bad. I was seeing them for a little over $1000 but haven't seen any for awhile. Too bad because except for a few things I really liked that pistol.

The Dumb Gun Collector

02-12-08, 18:25

I got mine for $916. I am hoping that they can get it down to $750 or so once American production ramps up.

Irighti

02-12-08, 23:03

Purchased my HK45C today locally for $894.00. I was on the list at CDNN but decided to spend the Cash in town. Put 150 rounds throght it this evening. Great pistol. Long heavy double action but sweet single. About the G19 size with a more ergo grip and a nicer trigger. Will be my carry gun when holsters are available. I'm a 1911 guy but I like this pistol. For me all the controls are within reach, No issues with mag release. Check it out.

Irighti

VA_Dinger

02-13-08, 01:12

I cannot wait to try out an HK45C.

Irighti

02-13-08, 07:38

VA Dinger

I predict that you will quickly be a fan of the 45C. If you like the G19 but prefer compact 45,its for you.

Irighti+

unclestevie45

02-13-08, 11:43

Are you able to compare the size of the 45C to a P2000?

ron556

02-21-08, 20:48

greg,

nice review. it gets me all revved up to try my new HK45 this weekend. i went to my local gun shop to pick up a [traded to me] XD45 and walked out with the HK45. how does that happen?:D i guess it's not a bad way to join the HK koolaid gang.

i have shot USPs before and i really didn't care too much for them at all the ergos were just not right for me. the HK45 was really a different animal… plus, you can actually carry it cocked + locked [it even says so in ze operator's manual, ja!]. of course, in typical HK fashion… extra mags are really pricey. :rolleyes: and i thought the sig game was already kind of expensive. membership into the club, i guess.

range report will be forthcoming.

Palmguy

02-21-08, 22:01

Are you able to compare the size of the 45C to a P2000?

I just brought home a 45c tonight; and I formerly had a 9mm P2k...and they feel very, very similar to me. I'm pretty sure that once I put the smaller backstrap on the 45c it'll feel exactly the same.

I'm also wondering if there was a recent shipment in on the HK45/45c...the store I got mine at in Port Orange, FL had 3 HK45c's and 2 or 3 HK45s.

I'm a little miffed that I hadn't read/researched the fact that the HK45c won't take either of the rail mount lights that I have now, a TLR-1 and an X300...that's all on me for not checking ahead of time. Not really a huge deal I guess, as the 17 rd equipped XD9 is probably going to retain bedside duty. The trigger is better, at least in SA, than any DA/SA HK I've had (2 USPc 45 and a USPf 9mm). I definitely don't care for the DA pull...

Also, man, these new-style sights are bright as hell...a 2 second zap from a little LED I had in my center console and the front sight was brighter than the dash illumination on my Explorer.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/bridoyal/20080221005-1.jpg