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VooDoo6Actual
10-02-11, 14:22
redaction
DeltaSierra
10-02-11, 14:48
Thanks for posting that video.
It shows so clearly the complete disdain shown by the elite towards those of us that haven't made millions by cheating others...
Karma is a bitch, and those arrogant asshats will eventually run out of bubbly and have to climb down from that Ivory Tower!
Gotta love that female dog that toasted the camera...she won't go to hell, hell is coming to her!!!
Eurodriver
10-02-11, 17:50
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
I'm a capitalist, so no, I'm with you on that.
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
Apparently you didn't have a portfolio with a significant amt. of money in it prior to 2007. As a Finance major from AU(not a big deal I know), American's have so much cause to hate Wall Street for playing so fast and loose w/ their hard earned money that in many cases had been accrued over multiple generations.
So if you didn't have anything stolen from you, it's hard to really be mad.
Politicians have an equal part in this as well, but this thread is for shitting on wall street and the traders who turned it into a game of speculation.
DeltaSierra
10-02-11, 18:10
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
No, you have lots of company...
Bush, Cheney, Bernanke, the Rothschild family, etc.
They all think that Wall Street is the greatest thing ever!
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-11, 18:19
It's a bad system, but it's better than any other by a wide margin.
Yes, it takes some moxy to sip some bubbly- but I would have thrown some Dolly Madison cakes.
You want to see the system and country we'd have if the protestors had their way?
It's a bad system, but it's better than any other by a wide margin.
Yes, it takes some moxy to sip some bubbly- but I would have thrown some Dolly Madison cakes.
You want to see the system and country we'd have if the protestors had their way?
Really. My generation needs to pull their head of their ass and take a long hard look at the rest of the world before they vote our country away. Teachers need to start teaching how to think, NOT what to think.
The problem is that people apparently link Wall Street to Capitalism. It's not capitalistic when you rig the f**king game so that only a few people can win.
Wall Street today is Disaster Capitalism at best!
Eurodriver
10-02-11, 19:37
The problem is that people apparently link Wall Street to Capitalism. It's not capitalistic when you rig the f**king game so that only a few people can win.
Wall Street today is Disaster Capitalism at best!
What are the alternatives?
We do not have a free market, but Wall Street could not do what they do without government aid. The government aids through a corrupt tax code among other ways.
What are the alternatives?
The best alternative to what we have now is a free market.
Don Robison
10-02-11, 19:59
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
Nope, not at all.
Nothing is without risk and a lot of people forgot that because they were too busy building their portfolios and ignoring the potential risks. The same with real estate; people were happy as long as they could flip a house and make money or buy a house obviously outside of their means, but when it dried up and they lost their asses it's the banks fault they didn't read the fine print in their contracts. I don't recall anyone poo-pooing when they were making cash from Wall Street and real estate.
That's correct, however we will never see a free market in this country with the current political system we have that includes so many politicians getting handouts from corporations and their lobbyists.
Wall Street could never have become what it has without explicit permission from our elected politicians and government.
eta...someone posted above me and my reply was intended to follow the one from Abraxas.
DeltaSierra
10-02-11, 20:01
The best alternative to what we have now is a free market.
Or, perhaps we should reconsider the American love affair with the free market entirely.
Neither Socialism or Capitalism are workable systems, as history has shown.
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
The problem is that ultimately Capitalism is the same as Socialism. Both systems are in place to benefit someone other than the individual. Both systems make someone higher up the food chain than you richer and more powerful.
thopkins22
10-02-11, 20:02
The best alternative to what we have now is a free market.
100% correct. Protesters and liberals are often correct that there is a problem, they just don't understand the best solution.
Medical care is a perfect example. Something IS wrong with the way it currently operates, but these folks think that more government is the answer.
These folks have lobbied for and created a system where there is absolutely no incentive to save, in fact you'd be foolish to do so. They have created a system where people will either spend every dime they can, and put the rest into stocks. Investing isn't a bad thing, but bad decisions are almost always made(and profited from) when you are forced to invest into something or risk inflation outpacing your 0.X% savings rate(which it will.) Want to not be in the poor house when you grow old? Invest in our stocks/funds. It should be "invest in something you have knowledge of," or "invest in something with a good P/E ratio and good dividends."
So do I agree with the protesters? Hell no. They'd bankrupt every brokerage and kill the marketplace if they could. But there IS something wrong.
ETA: I finally watched the video...and all I can say is that's awesome. Kind of in poor taste and all that, but "absolutely baller" came to mind nonetheless.
thopkins22
10-02-11, 20:05
Nope, not at all.
Nothing is without risk and a lot of people forgot that because they were too busy building their portfolios and ignoring the potential risks. The same with real estate; people were happy as long as they could flip a house and make money or buy a house obviously outside of their means, but when it dried up and they lost their asses it's the banks fault they didn't read the fine print in their contracts. I don't recall anyone poo-pooing when they were making cash from Wall Street and real estate.
I agree...but the large investment firms and clearing houses have created a system where people don't have realistic alternatives.
Don Robison
10-02-11, 20:14
I agree...but the large investment firms and clearing houses have created a system where people don't have realistic alternatives.
I don't disagree with you, but in my opinion that is why people should have been more cautious; especially if the money they were playing with was money they needed.
I'm definitely not a money wizard, but I will say I wasn't significantly hurt by either the Wall Street or real estate crash and today I'm doing better financially than 5 years ago. I don't really want for anything and buy what I want when I want it. The only thing I can credit for that is my caution and apprehension at believing the whole "you can't go wrong" mantra that seemed to be all the rage until everything crashed.
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
"Stealing" from others? Really? Grow up.
Don Robison
10-02-11, 20:29
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
A person enters into a contractual agreement with either another person or a corporation; the details of the agreement are spelled out in the paperwork and a reasonable person knows there is an amount of risk involved with business.
Some people make better deals than others; how is that stealing?
DeltaSierra
10-02-11, 20:33
"Stealing" from others? Really? Grow up.
Both systems are attempts by an elite to try to justify theft from the majority to benefit themselves.
If you look at the system we have, you will see that it gains nothing unless it steals it. Just look at the bailouts. That was theft to benefit a minority.
A person enters into a contractual agreement with either another person or a corporation; the details of the agreement are spelled out in the paperwork and a reasonable person knows there is an amount of risk involved with business.
Some people make better deals than others; how is that stealing?
It is stealing because I never entered into an agreement with any of the Wall Street Bankers, yet I get to pay off part of their bills, via the bailouts.
The Bankers steal from the people, by using the force of Government to collect taxes that are then used to fund private bank accounts, and fund large bonuses for certain CEOs.
When the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 it totally changed the way this country was operated in every way. Now, instead of a Government that works for the people, we now have a Government that works for Corporations.
Ignorance is bliss.....this system would fall like a house of cards if America didn't have so many ignorant people voting against their own self interest due to fear.
Bailing out banks is what if not stealing from taxpayers? Too big to fail is udder bullshit and something only the politicians and ignorant believe in.
By the way, the majority of people who saw their nest egg disappear in 2007-2008 had jack shit to do with real estate and the home lending crisis, and it's insulting to keep hearing that implied.
thopkins22
10-02-11, 20:44
Both systems are attempts by an elite to try to justify theft from the majority to benefit themselves.
If you look at the system we have, you will see that it gains nothing unless it steals it. Just look at the bailouts. That was theft to benefit a minority.
Do Microsoft and Apple steal from people? I'm not saying they're perfect(data mining etc...) but are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates rich because they have stolen from people? Or collectively have the two of them enriched our lives and created far more prosperity than their collective net worth?
Capitalism has existed in every society. Communist China? Capitalist. Soviet Union? Capitalist. Cuba? Capitalist. The difference is what kind of capitalism...is it the kind that we're attempting to cling to? The kind that allows for freedom and the ability to succeed or fail no matter what your current status is? Or is it controlled by government. Nothing else other than shades between the two extremes will ever exist.
For "another way" to come about you would have to defy human nature and it would require violence like the world has never seen to implement.
When the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 it totally changed the way this country was operated in every way. Now, instead of a Government that works for the people, we now have a Government that works for Corporations.
This is true...and I don't think anyone is arguing that the bank bailouts and all that happened during that period was absolute theft and obscene on many levels. But I think most are saying that we have to be careful who we side with. The people in the streets? Please. If you think they understand monetary policy or have a desire to do anything other some some bolshevik rebellion you're kidding yourself. What we currently have is better than they would give us.
Both systems are attempts by an elite to try to justify theft from the majority to benefit themselves.
If you look at the system we have, you will see that it gains nothing unless it steals it. Just look at the bailouts. That was theft to benefit a minority.
It is stealing because I never entered into an agreement with any of the Wall Street Bankers, yet I get to pay off part of their bills, via the bailouts.
The Bankers steal from the people, by using the force of Government to collect taxes that are then used to fund private bank accounts, and fund large bonuses for certain CEOs.
When the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 it totally changed the way this country was operated in every way. Now, instead of a Government that works for the people, we now have a Government that works for Corporations.
Amen brother. I bet 99.5% of Americans have no idea or probably even a care about the Fed. The Fed is the cancer and we jsut keep doing chemo and radiation therapy without first removing the cancer.
Or, perhaps we should reconsider the American love affair with the free market entirely.
Neither Socialism or Capitalism are workable systems, as history has shown.
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
The problem is that ultimately Capitalism is the same as Socialism. Both systems are in place to benefit someone other than the individual. Both systems make someone higher up the food chain than you richer and more powerful. I never said capitalism, I said free market. By definition stealing will benefit the theif if the theif succeeds, no matter what economic system. No system that is developed by humans will be perfect and it will always become corrupt if enough people don't pay attention, or educate themselves sufficiently to understand how it works. There will always be some with more power and influence, it is how the world works, you have a boss don't you.
Do Microsoft and Apple steal from people? I'm not saying they're perfect(data mining etc...) but are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates rich because they have stolen from people? Or collectively have the two of them enriched our lives and created far more prosperity than their collective net worth?
Capitalism has existed in every society. Communist China? Capitalist. Soviet Union? Capitalist. Cuba? Capitalist. The difference is what kind of capitalism...is it the kind that we're attempting to cling to? The kind that allows for freedom and the ability to succeed or fail no matter what your current status is? Or is it controlled by government. Nothing else other than shades between the two extremes will ever exist.
For "another way" to come about you would have to defy human nature and it would require violence like the world has never seen to implement.
This is true...and I don't think anyone is arguing that the bank bailouts and all that happened during that period was absolute theft and obscene on many levels. But I think most are saying that we have to be careful who we side with. The people in the streets? Please. If you think they understand monetary policy or have a desire to do anything other some some bolshevik rebellion you're kidding yourself. What we currently have is better than they would give us.
Cuba is capitalist? Um no. My father is from Cuba and he will tell you from firsthand experience just how "capitalist" Cuba is. Now that Fidel is out of the picture (yes I believe he is dead), they have moved SLIGHTLY towards capitalism, but they are a long shot away from where we are today....and WE have moved AWAY from capitalism over the years....
However, I do agree with you that the people in the streets around Wall Street are misguided and want to turn our country into something like Cuba. They think that we need more government "because government knows best"...RIGHT. :rolleyes:
I am in no way defending some of the crooks in Wall Street. There are more problems than you can count in our government, economy, health care system, national security, foreign and domestic policy, and the list goes on. But I can assure you the answer is not bigger government. It basically has to boil down to having consequences for actions, and if those actions lead to a large company or bank failing, then so be it. There has to be consequences for actions for government officials as well...we can't keep voting in the same people and expect to get different results. If you don't do the will of the people, then your ass is outta there! Period!
thopkins22
10-02-11, 21:18
Cuba is capitalist? Um no. My father is from Cuba and he will tell you from firsthand experience just how "capitalist" Cuba is. Now that Fidel is out of the picture (yes I believe he is dead), they have moved SLIGHTLY towards capitalism, but they are a long shot away from where we are today....and WE have moved AWAY from capitalism over the years....
Absolutely they are, and have been. Every country is and always has been. Some definitions mention "private control" but not all and I don't think it's adequate.
This is a video of Milton Friedman responding to a question regarding colonialism and slavery, but he also gives a response to a very similar question and gives a very similar answer to mine(with far more authority than I could ever dream of.) http://vimeo.com/5143574
Where's Andrew Jackson when we need him? Oh yeah, he's rolling over in his grave! :(
Don Robison
10-02-11, 21:42
It is stealing because I never entered into an agreement with any of the Wall Street Bankers, yet I get to pay off part of their bills, via the bailouts.
The Bankers steal from the people, by using the force of Government to collect taxes that are then used to fund private bank accounts, and fund large bonuses for certain CEOs.
When the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 it totally changed the way this country was operated in every way. Now, instead of a Government that works for the people, we now have a Government that works for Corporations.
I don't think anyone likes the bailouts that happened, but stealing, come on dude.
The government takes taxes by force? No they don't, I made more last year than any previous year and paid less in taxes than ever. Sounds like you may have some sour grapes because your tax guy sucks; get a new one. Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance through smart, well thought out dealings, proper structure and using the rules to your advantage to avoid taxes is not only smart business; it's legal. Stop working for "the man" and start your own business so you can be one of the fat cats; it's not that difficult, but it does take time and commitment.
There are three options available to everyone.
1. Sit around and bitch about the fat cats and worry about the end of the world as we know it.
2. Study what the fat cats do and copy it to better yourself and keep more of your money.
3. Move to utopia and find a new crisis to bitch about. Yea, I know utopia is perfect, but some folks just aren't happy unless they have a crisis to howl about.
I'll take number 2; I have taken number 2 and while I'm not rich I'm not sitting in my bunker worried about the end of the world, JBTs and other things that I have little or no control over. I'm making money for my family and spending it on things we need and/or want.
Absolutely they are, and have been. Every country is and always has been. Some definitions mention "private control" but not all and I don't think it's adequate.
This is a video of Milton Friedman responding to a question regarding colonialism and slavery, but he also gives a response to a very similar question and gives a very similar answer to mine(with far more authority than I could ever dream of.) http://vimeo.com/5143574
So you're trying to tell me that if you have a (hypothetical) scale from 0-10 where Cuba ranks 0 with "privatization of business" and the US ranks 10, you would label both sides of the scale as "Capitalism" and say "hey, they may rank a 0 on the scale, but they are still 'capitalist'"???
That's utter horseshit! If you aren't capitalist, then you're socialist if you are on the opposite side of the scale like Cuba IS! Don't try to play semantics here. Lets call a spade a spade.
Lets review some definitions:
Socialism: is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.
Capitalism: is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets.
I think you just got sucked into the bullshit called semantics my friend. There's always someone out there trying to call something its not.
The government takes taxes by force? No they don't,
Actually yes they do. Don't pay any and see. Everything the government does is at the barrel of a gun. If you don't pay that speeding ticket, someone with a gun will hook you up, continue to not do, or fight and it continues to go down hill from there. The government is the only organization that is allowed to use force.
DeltaSierra
10-02-11, 21:53
I don't think anyone likes the bailouts that happened, but stealing, come on dude.
The government takes taxes by force? No they don't,
Yes, they take your money, and if you have any objections, they will use FORCE to get your money.
I made more last year than any previous year and paid less in taxes than ever. Sounds like you may have some sour grapes because your tax guy sucks; get a new one. Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance through smart, well thought out dealings, proper structure and using the rules to your advantage to avoid taxes is not only smart business; it's legal.
Instead of dealing with the problem, you just try to outsmart the teams of legal experts working for the corporate interests that run the Government? You are not helping to solve any issues, and you are part of the problem here if you aren't willing to go against the flow and speak out against injustice.
Stop working for "the man" and start your own business so you can be one of the fat cats; it's not that difficult, but it does take time and commitment.
What does this have to do with anything? Who I do, or do not work for has nothing to do with this larger problem that is being discussed.
Your reading comprehension is lacking, or you simply don't understand the real issues here. The issue is not with working for someone else. The issue here is that I don't like being taxed, and having those taxes go to pay the multi-million dollar "bonus" of some Corporate Executive.
They can have all the bubbly they want. Im partial to Cliquet, but whatevah. I am more concerned about the throngs of faceless t001s chanting their marxist crap. They are revolting against a system that their manifest cites are necessary to create the workers paradise. The 6th plank of communism is a monopoly of capital, well they have it. Every major collapse since the inception of the Fed is at the hands of the assclowns in the Eccles Building. So long as there is a fiat money system and a Congress that disregards Article 1, Section 8, these problems will continue. Susan Sarandon and Micheal Moore showed up, isnt that special. Ms. Sarandon wants to call for an Arab Spring and a Day of Rage. They blab on about the concentration of wealth and the "evil" corporations, can anyone of them name a Hedge Fund Manager, an evil CEO, or Commodities trader? Or is it easier to pin on a random and workable pejorative? The protestors follow the Rules for Radicals mantra, which I do believe calls for the elimination of the middle class. What Alinsky calls the, "have some, want mores". So, the structure is eliminated and the have nots and middle class are lumped into the same box, making it easier to be dependent upon the Leviathan and impossible to leave. To leave is to be ridiculed. Sound familiar? Its not too far from Wall Street, how about 123rd and Trinity Ave?
We have certainly fallen into quite a quandary. Even though, I think Sen McCain ran a craptastic campaign, at one of the debates he was asked about taxation and wealth, his answer was simple, "I want everyone to be wealthy". I work hard because poverty sucks. Taking more money from those champagne sippin' snobs wont improve my life, but Moordor on the Potomac taking more of my money and the Eccles Building manipulating all of it will degrade my life.
The issue is not with working for someone else. The issue here is that I don't like being taxed, and having those taxes go to pay the multi-million dollar "bonus" of some Corporate Executive.
Misappropriation of funds! 100% agree...which is why I said earlier that there needs to be consequences for actions.
Crow Hunter
10-02-11, 22:11
What is it with this country and the disdain/anger towards the successful? :confused:
I am sure those in that crowd of protesters, if given the opportunity to switch places with those in the balcony, would immediately take all their money and give it away to the poor, the needy and the unfortunate and only keep just enough to feed themselves. :rolleyes:
Right....
I'm sure that every one in that group of protesters takes everything that they make above and beyond the bare essentials needed to survive and gives all their surpluses to those less fortunate?;)
They just feel jealousy for those more successful than them and want to see "someone" do something about it. They don't think it is "fair" that others have more than them. They want the "Nanny" to make them "share their toys".
It's disgusting.:mad:
There WILL ALWAYS be someone better off than you. There WILL ALWAYS be someone worse off than you as well. The poorest most "disadvantaged" person in modern America is better off than 95% of the rest of the modern world and leaps and bounds ahead of those in previous years. How many of those protesters do you think have a least a 40" flat screen television, 50+ channel cable, a roof over their heads, more food than they can eat and plenty of time for leisure activities (Like taking normal working hours to protest members of Wall Street).
Life for the poor has never been as good as it is today in America and people should do well to remember that sometimes.
And I don't want to hear about the "Good ole Days". I had parents that lived during that time period. While it might have been good for the Cleavers, it wasn't that great in rural South.
Count your blessings and work towards improving yourself, don't waste it focusing on what others have that you do not. There are lots of people, even in America, that would love just to be able to walk down the street much less waste it "protesting".
Don Robison
10-02-11, 22:22
Actually yes they do. Don't pay any and see. Everything the government does is at the barrel of a gun. If you don't pay that speeding ticket, someone with a gun will hook you up, continue to not do, or fight and it continues to go down hill from there. The government is the only organization that is allowed to use force.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote? They take what you give them, unless you have a crappy tax consultant who can't figure out a way to keep more of your money; if that the case then they take everything they want. Part of working and living here is paying taxes; part of the tax game is figuring out how to pay less. If you can use the rules to get your tax burden to zero they don't do a thing.
Maybe I'm just naive, but I've never had the IRS or anyone else bust into my home or business. I've never been audited; my only interaction with the IRS has been filing my forms and going to their local office to get copies of previous returns. I know a few people who haven't filed a return in over a decade and are still running their businesses, I wouldn't do that, but it doesn't seem to affect them. The cost/benefit just isn't there for me. It's much more interesting to play within the system and figure out how to make it work for your best interest rather than someone else.
Delta,
My reading comprehension is just fine. Nobody likes paying taxes. In 1862 when we got our first income tax law I'm sure nobody liked it either, but it's the way it is and you can protest as much as you like it's not going to change the way the world works. I suggest figuring out how the real world works instead of wishing you lived some fantasy land where the unicorns shit skittles.
variablebinary
10-02-11, 22:27
Nothing good can come from the massive concentration and consolidation of wealth and power we've seen in the last 20 years.
RancidSumo
10-02-11, 23:46
I don't think anyone likes the bailouts that happened, but stealing, come on dude.
The government takes taxes by force? No they don't
...
Yes they do. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
Taxes (especially income tax) are outright theft. The problem that we have now is that we do not live in a free market, capitalist society. We live in a society in which idiots vote in power hungry retards that steal from hard working people to fund things like the bailouts, cash for clunkers, and all other government programs. If we didn't allow this, we wouldn't have all the problems we have now.
If governments quit backing banks, they would either have to quit gambling so much with their money or they would go out of business and be replaced by banks that don't do stupid things with their money. A bank should be no different than any other business; sometimes they fail and it is the customers job to do their research and put their money in the right establishment. There should never be any guarantee that the bank won't fail and lose all its money (unless someone opens one up that does nothing but sit on the money) because sometimes, no matter how small the risk is, bad things happen. If you don't like that then start storing your money under your mattress.
Everyone who complains about how they lost money that the invested needs to come back down to reality. If you invest in something, there is at least a small chance that it will fail and you will lose all of that money. When that happens it isn't anyone stealing from you, it is business as usual (except the rare cases in which theft is actually occurring through a breach of contract which is an entirely different subject). I seriously doubt that anyone here or anywhere else for that matter had a contract with the people that they invested with that said "We guarantee that you will make money and that you will never lose a dime on this investment."
Wake up and start attacking the actual source of all of our problems. It isn't big business, it is big government.
RancidSumo
10-02-11, 23:49
Actually yes they do. Don't pay any and see. Everything the government does is at the barrel of a gun. If you don't pay that speeding ticket, someone with a gun will hook you up, continue to not do, or fight and it continues to go down hill from there. The government is the only organization that is allowed to use force.
Beating, hanging, and killing.
Don Robison
10-03-11, 00:28
Yes they do. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
Taxes (especially income tax) are outright theft. The problem that we have now is that we do not live in a free market, capitalist society. We live in a society in which idiots vote in power hungry retards that steal from hard working people to fund things like the bailouts, cash for clunkers, and all other government programs. If we didn't allow this, we wouldn't have all the problems we have now.
If governments quit backing banks, they would either have to quit gambling so much with their money or they would go out of business and be replaced by banks that don't do stupid things with their money. A bank should be no different than any other business; sometimes they fail and it is the customers job to do their research and put their money in the right establishment. There should never be any guarantee that the bank won't fail and lose all its money (unless someone opens one up that does nothing but sit on the money) because sometimes, no matter how small the risk is, bad things happen. If you don't like that then start storing your money under your mattress.
Everyone who complains about how they lost money that the invested needs to come back down to reality. If you invest in something, there is at least a small chance that it will fail and you will lose all of that money. When that happens it isn't anyone stealing from you, it is business as usual (except the rare cases in which theft is actually occurring through a breach of contract which is an entirely different subject). I seriously doubt that anyone here or anywhere else for that matter had a contract with the people that they invested with that said "We guarantee that you will make money and that you will never lose a dime on this investment."
Wake up and start attacking the actual source of all of our problems. It isn't big business, it is big government.
That's a great post.
For clarification what I mean when I say they don't take them at gun point is that if you use their rules to your advantage you can pay little to no taxes. They take what you say you'll give them unless you just blindly file your taxes without a solid structure in place to avoid tax liability. Reach people didn't get rich by paying what the government told them was their fair share in taxes.
We're not going to do away with a tax system that has been around in one form or fashion for 149 years so people should be educating themselves or paying someone who is educated on how to use the system to their advantage.
RancidSumo post is good and true :)
I would love to know how many of the people bitching have lived and worked in another country and without a normal job setup meaning you went there and started a business and made money ! and tried to live
then you realize how good we have it while their is corruption head down to Central and South America or over to the EU and know people they have it worse central and south with massive corruption and EU and other places with massive taxes and regulations and such
I dont like the bail outs and am for a very small gov but at the same time I dont go around whining and blaming others in business only the gov !!!!!! they are the real issue here
I bet most anyone here if the gov said hey we are going to give you some money and not let you pay taxes most all here would not say NO WAY I am going to pay and I dont want your money !
most would say thanks :)
dont let the gov play you learn to vent toward the gov and vote in people who might stop this
thopkins22
10-03-11, 01:45
So you're trying to tell me that if you have a (hypothetical) scale from 0-10 where Cuba ranks 0 with "privatization of business" and the US ranks 10, you would label both sides of the scale as "Capitalism" and say "hey, they may rank a 0 on the scale, but they are still 'capitalist'"???
I'm trying to tell you that a scale judging capitalism from 0-10 is flawed. The worst offenders(certainly like Cuba) definitely have private control of capital. It all happens to be controlled by Castro's cronies, but we see capitalism at play. If in a foreign country I buy a case of Cohiba cigars do we believe that every penny is put into some BS fund and is distributed to all Cubans? Stepping back in time we saw the same thing in the USSR.
There is no truly socialist mecca where everything that comes from "the people" returns to them. Someone is always making money. The differences in our systems of government determine whether that can be anyone with a good idea, or only friends of the powerful. We're drifting further and further towards the latter.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-03-11, 01:53
There was some communist country observer that was once quoted that only in America do people who protest against the wealthy and for socialistic programs drive to the protest in their own cars.
What hacks me most about these nihilists and neo-anarchists is that they spout all this 'tear down the system' and try to use revolutionary imagery and metaphors. Instead of all this postering, I'd wish they'd just shut up and throw down so we can crack some skulls and take out the trash. I'm tired of these Starbuck commandos thinking they are going to come and take my shit and mess the place up.
I love listening to Rage Against the Machine as much as anyone, but if I met Zack de la Rocha in person, I'd give him a swift kick to the nuts.
I'd sip campaign and flip off those bolsheviks too.
Right now we're having severe problems with speeding up the velocity of money. IE spending, investing, etc. The speed at which money circulates has become anemic. Government has largely made things like healthcare, manufactured goods, and houses artificially expensive, pretty much everything they regulate and tax. Even with the inflation of the currency, people make a whole lot more than they ever have. People are also more dysfunctional than they have ever been, the government encourages divorces, hatred between the sexes and litigious behavior.
Best thing the government could do would be to deregulate most everything, end currency inflation and go back to running the government off of import taxes. The government should study nothing and subsidize nothing. I'm amazed that with all the government does that we are even this well off. A strong engine can handle a mighty load indeed.
If you define wealth concentration as making four times more (inflation adjusted) than you would have in 1940, while rich people are doing much better than that... then I can't help you. That's not bad, that's ****ing awesome. Africa wishes they were that awesome.
In capitalism the poor become less poor over time and the rich become a lot richer. In socialism the poor become dead, everyone else becomes destitute, and the communists become lower middle class.
http://visualecon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/RealGDPperCapita.png
...
You can dick around with the tax rates all you want, people and companies will generally chip in at about 18-20% max.
http://www.qando.net/?tag=tax-rates
But why have to chip in anything at the federal level? The government ran fine when it ran on import taxes alone.
...
http://www.qando.net/wp-content/uploads/Tax-Revenues-as-a-Percentage-of-GDP-by-Year1.gif
Eurodriver
10-03-11, 06:28
Many of the people in this thread sound an aweful like the French in the 1790s.
However, this is not France, and Obama is not Louis the XVI
30 cal slut
10-03-11, 06:57
They don't know exactly what they're protesting against
There are a lot of folks in there for the sake of protesting, or to rail about their pet cause
The genuine, well-informed protestors were probably in front of the NY Federal Reserve.
Just a Jarhead
10-03-11, 07:16
Why must "youth always be wasted on the young?"
It's always the 20-30 somethings that think they've got the whole world and all it's ill's all figured out and rarely have they got a clue yet!
I liked some of the video where they were asked why they were their and they say to get rid of greed capitalism and then when they were asked what do you want to replace it with ? they have this blank stupid stare :)
I wold love to take these idiots and throw them in another country with nothing and say live here a year and then come out see what you think of our country then !
lets send them to Venezuela or other places see how they really like it and let them protest the way they do in those countries then return here and see if they want to destroy what we have ! if they do I say why not move to these other great places that are so much better than us !!!
in some sick way I hope we have a insane collapse then what will these people do when the gov collapses and nobody GIVES them stuff ?
will they resort to stealing ? if so most of us here wont give them a hand and if they come to steal ? well they will find out the hard way that many of us have worked hard prepared and rely on our selves and close friends.
they will learn quickly or die when they have no food and find out the others turn on them etc.. time for a drop of bleach in the gene pool :)
not saying I want to have a collapse I want to turn it around but maybe we need a collapse to open some peoples eyes ?
I'm trying to tell you that a scale judging capitalism from 0-10 is flawed. The worst offenders(certainly like Cuba) definitely have private control of capital. It all happens to be controlled by Castro's cronies, but we see capitalism at play. If in a foreign country I buy a case of Cohiba cigars do we believe that every penny is put into some BS fund and is distributed to all Cubans? Stepping back in time we saw the same thing in the USSR.
There is no truly socialist mecca where everything that comes from "the people" returns to them. Someone is always making money. The differences in our systems of government determine whether that can be anyone with a good idea, or only friends of the powerful. We're drifting further and further towards the latter.
I see you are only arguing little sections of what I wrote...the scale? Really? That's what you chose to argue about? That was totally hypothetical with no statistical data to make it accurate...it was only to make a point, and you chose to base your argument on that? How about arguing real facts such as the definitions of each system and what I have been told about the living conditions of my family members who were there and the ones that still are.
Maybe for the Castro's and the select few in power, you might call it capitalism....capitalization of power and wealth relative to the people. But to the people, how can there be capitalism when you are rationed how many eggs, how much milk, and how much bread you will get per week? There is NO true privitization or wealth there.
Sorry, you can call it what you want, but that whole "system" is sociaism. You can call a turd a chocolate bar all you want, but it will never smell or taste like one.
CarlosDJackal
10-03-11, 11:04
Apparently you didn't have a portfolio with a significant amt. of money in it prior to 2007. As a Finance major from AU(not a big deal I know), American's have so much cause to hate Wall Street for playing so fast and loose w/ their hard earned money that in many cases had been accrued over multiple generations.
So if you didn't have anything stolen from you, it's hard to really be mad.
Politicians have an equal part in this as well, but this thread is for shitting on wall street and the traders who turned it into a game of speculation.
More than a decade ago a former co-worker of mine, who happened to be a licensed Stockbroker, gave me some of the best advice that has saved me from going poor. He told me that if I were to participate in the stock market or any other similar investment (ie: 401k, IRA, etc.) I should do so with the thought that the money I do invest has been lost from the get-go.
Anyone who put ALL of their life's savings in to such investments before the bubble burst is an idiot. I keep hearing about couples who lost millions of dollars because they put everything they had in the stock market. And whether anyone likes it or not, these individuals were doing so for no other reasons than pure greed (which is not bad because it is just like just like everyone else). The reality is they wanted to take the millions that they had and increase it. Boo-freaking-hoo, pardon me while I play the world's smallest violin.
If I had a millions dollars in my savings, I would be a moron to invest all of it. I really don't have the right to complain if my gamble (and that is what it is) did not pay off as I wanted to. It's akin to taking it to Vegas and loosing it all as the Casinos. I can't blame the casinos for my losses (unless they illegally rigged the games, of course). But even if they did rig the games, I can only blame myself for turning my cash into gambling chips in the first place.
Anyone dumb enough to give everything they had to the likes of bernie madoff should take a serious look at how greedy that man in the mirror is. Yes, he was a scumbag for doing what he did and IMHO should be thrown into general population of the highest-security prison we have just so he can live the rest of his life as Bubba's bitch. But he did not put a gun to anyone's head and force them to invest.
So when I hear that some couple had to sell of their yachts, their limos, their race horses, most of their antique car collections, and their 70 million dollar mansion because the bottom fell out from under them; forgive me if I do not shed a tear. I'm just a working stiff who is trying to amass my own wealth the old-fashioned way: through hard work.
The only difference between investing and visiting a Casino are the odds. In both cases you can come out well ahead or flat broke. JM2CW.
thopkins22
10-03-11, 11:17
I see you are only arguing little sections of what I wrote...the scale? Really? That's what you chose to argue about? That was totally hypothetical with no statistical data to make it accurate...it was only to make a point, and you chose to base your argument on that? How about arguing real facts such as the definitions of each system and what I have been told about the living conditions of my family members who were there and the ones that still are.
Maybe for the Castro's and the select few in power, you might call it capitalism....capitalization of power and wealth relative to the people. But to the people, how can there be capitalism when you are rationed how many eggs, how much milk, and how much bread you will get per week? There is NO true privitization or wealth there.
Sorry, you can call it what you want, but that whole "system" is sociaism. You can call a turd a chocolate bar all you want, but it will never smell or taste like one.
I think you're misinterpreting my posts...I don't disagree that it's socialism, nor do I disagree that the living conditions it has created are appalling. Free market capitalism is a key element of why some countries are far more prosperous and have a much higher average standard of living and the lack thereof is a key element of why some countries are lacking. Capitalism exists there, the same as it does everywhere...free market capitalism nor laissez faire capitalism does not. It's an important distinction, considering the subject matter of the thread and that the protesters are also failing to make that connection. It's all about who and how gets to participate in the marketplace.
You ought not be upset about my focus on one small part of your post, because from the get go your focus has been on one small part of mine. Socialism exists, and more often than not it's consequences are horrific. But even in some hardcore remote hippie commune, capitalism is a distinct part of human nature that can't be disappeared. It's how it is allowed to manifest itself that makes the difference.
In Cuba's case, you are absolutely correct that the people as a whole have not been allowed to participate in the market place nor benefit from it, but as I said before my post was in response to DeltaSierra saying that both socialism and capitalism steal from the people and that another system should be developed.
I know from prior topics and posts that we agree on many if not most things...this is a relatively minor thing that I simply believe is important to understanding the reasons that socialism fails. Even if it worked I would not be in favor of it as I prefer freedom, but none of the ideology ever even pans out as far as their desire to do away with capitalism.
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6425/31607610150342020327416.jpg
VooDoo6Actual
10-03-11, 14:49
redacted
VooDoo6Actual
10-03-11, 15:09
redacted.
Crow Hunter
10-03-11, 16:59
Yes they do. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
Taxes (especially income tax) are outright theft. The problem that we have now is that we do not live in a free market, capitalist society. We live in a society in which idiots vote in power hungry retards that steal from hard working people to fund things like the bailouts, cash for clunkers, and all other government programs. If we didn't allow this, we wouldn't have all the problems we have now.
If governments quit backing banks, they would either have to quit gambling so much with their money or they would go out of business and be replaced by banks that don't do stupid things with their money. A bank should be no different than any other business; sometimes they fail and it is the customers job to do their research and put their money in the right establishment. There should never be any guarantee that the bank won't fail and lose all its money (unless someone opens one up that does nothing but sit on the money) because sometimes, no matter how small the risk is, bad things happen. If you don't like that then start storing your money under your mattress.
Everyone who complains about how they lost money that the invested needs to come back down to reality. If you invest in something, there is at least a small chance that it will fail and you will lose all of that money. When that happens it isn't anyone stealing from you, it is business as usual (except the rare cases in which theft is actually occurring through a breach of contract which is an entirely different subject). I seriously doubt that anyone here or anywhere else for that matter had a contract with the people that they invested with that said "We guarantee that you will make money and that you will never lose a dime on this investment."
Wake up and start attacking the actual source of all of our problems. It isn't big business, it is big government.
AMEN. Preach on brother!
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 19:57
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.
Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.
Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.
Demand four: Free college education.
Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.
Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.
Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.
Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.
Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.
Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.
Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.
Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
Saved for my response.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 20:19
Saved for my response.
1. Trade tariffs worked really well in the late 20's, and into the 30's.
Minimum wage of 20/HR would raise the cost of a combo meal at a fast food place to 15-20 dollars, and they would go out of business within 6 months.
2. Most doctors and hospitals do not get the money from providing services because they are forced to treat anyone who walks in the door, and then pass the buck to those with insurance or other people without insurance, so they too, get charged exorbitant rates. Everybody gets charged exorbitant rates because they only expect a certain percentage of patients to actually pay. Government regulation = increased costs instead of pay as you go or charity.
3. If homeless bums can turn themselves around to become millionaires no one deserves jack shit, and its all about personal drive. Even someone born into wealth can ruin it. What you are born into is not a guarantee of a future either poor or rich. Lots of people inherit wealth and are broke within a few years.
4. No. This further dimishes the employer/employee relationship. As more people are going to college....college becomes the new HS diploma and further lessens wages as the bar is dropped. If everyone went to college a PHD would be treated how a BS is now. The more people who go to college the more businesses expect employees to go to school for 4 years to go make 15/hr.
5. Unless alternative fuels are market based no one will be able to afford the standard of living we have now. The only way electric/hyrbid vehicles are competitive now is because they come with huge tax breaks and incentives from the gov. No one is going to pay 35-40k for a hybrid when a gasoline only car that gets about the same MPG can be had under 20k from most major brands.
When it comes to major sources of power for things like running cities and homes converting to "green" sources right now would leave most homes powerless and heatless. These technologies are simply not viable enough to replace current methods to heat/cool/power millions of homes.
6. 1 Trillion from where? The chinese? New tax that would further cripple the economy?
7. Another trillion from where? Decommision nuclear plants, and power homes with what? Americans could not afford to, en masse, switch to solar or other such methods.
8. Already done, and then some.
9. Then good luck getting the tax revenue to fund this communist wonderland. I mean Id just become a dude floating around and not have to be accountable for anything.
10. Ask Harry Reid why they had SEIU technicians on his last election running the voting machines, and why he came out 5 percent ahead of every major polling entity. Maybe we can get a valid government ID not issued to illegals to vote?
11. Would crash the economy and revert us back to the stone age. Going for the big bucks here!
12. Since they have proven to not be about credit but a scam Americans out of money they either need to be completely restructured or done away with if they won't stick to "Credit" only contracts.
13. Then allow the host company to fire every employee who votes for a union or if a union is voted in they can fire every worker they have if needed, and hire other non union workers. Fed gov will have no role other than contract law enforcement if a company so chooses to have a union work force. Also unions cannot extend over state lines.
ForTehNguyen
10-03-11, 20:26
Apparently you didn't have a portfolio with a significant amt. of money in it prior to 2007. As a Finance major from AU(not a big deal I know), American's have so much cause to hate Wall Street for playing so fast and loose w/ their hard earned money that in many cases had been accrued over multiple generations.
wouldnt have happened if it wasnt for govt/fed reserve retarded policies that caused the bubbles. People like to blame those who got drunk on the bubble, but they never think about who was the one passing out all the alcohol.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 20:35
People grew accustomed to sticking your money in "investments", and not having much risk. Its no different than gambling, and why every stock does better or worse than others. The old idea of dumping a 1/4 of your paycheck into your 401k is 'done for' or Fed/stake workers expecting to work for 20 years and get 40 or more years of retirement pay.
This is why all our grand parents had hidey holes.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 20:45
http://i.imgur.com/qxqBu.jpg
This is public education for you.
If I were the 3rd one down, I'd be hiding behind the paper too and not show my face.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 21:02
This is public education for you.
If I were the 3rd one down, I'd be hiding behind the paper too and not show my face.
I have a buddy from HS who fell into the liberal arts type trap. UCLA BA philosophy degree and he works at a cigar shop now for about 12/hr with around 80k in student loans. The only reason he is still afloat is his now wife is one the of the 5% of art degrees who actually makes a living, and she works with some pretty pricey stuff (which is mostly due to personal talent, a good thing to have, and not "gifted" via the state).
They would do far better to protest their colleges for selling them degrees that are worthless than protesting Wall Street. Suckers who think everyone in the world will love their opinion on worthless matters while failing to realize the only people making money on these programs are the professors and colleges. Some chump philosophy PHD turns around and becomes a professor making 150k a year teaching a few classes a week to leave most of his students with a worthless degree and lots of money in his pocket.
I have a buddy from HS who fell into the liberal arts type trap. UCLA BA philosophy degree and he works at a cigar shop now for about 12/hr with around 80k in student loans. The only reason he is still afloat is his now wife is one the of the 5% of art degrees who actually makes a living, and she works with some pretty pricey stuff (which is mostly due to personal talent, a good thing to have, and not "gifted" via the state).
They would do far better to protest their colleges for selling them degrees that are worthless than protesting Wall Street. Suckers who think everyone in the world will love their opinion on worthless matters while failing to realize the only people making money on these programs are the professors and colleges. Some chump philosophy PHD turns around and becomes a professor making 150k a year teaching a few classes a week to leave most of his students with a worthless degree and lots of money in his pocket.
I agree.
However, I doubt anyone but a few of the biggest names are making $150k as philosophy professors. My BIL is a PhD from Yale History professor (not the same thing about about as useful) at one of the largest private universities and he probably makes around $60-70k now (started at $42k but has since published some stuff and also got tenure) and he has been working there around 7 or 8 years. He made much more money as a Major on active duty in Afghanistan for 8 months (called up from his reserve position) than he makes as a PhD prof in a liberal arts field.
He likes it as he is the academic type.
montanadave
10-03-11, 21:08
This country's plutocratic pricks and their bought and paid for politicians had best start paying attention to which way the wind is blowin'.
Whether it's middle-aged white guys wearing wigs and tricorne hats or college kids with earbuds and tie-dye T-shirts, the natives are gettin' restless.
I think you're misinterpreting my posts...I don't disagree that it's socialism, nor do I disagree that the living conditions it has created are appalling. Free market capitalism is a key element of why some countries are far more prosperous and have a much higher average standard of living and the lack thereof is a key element of why some countries are lacking. Capitalism exists there, the same as it does everywhere...free market capitalism nor laissez faire capitalism does not. It's an important distinction, considering the subject matter of the thread and that the protesters are also failing to make that connection. It's all about who and how gets to participate in the marketplace.
You ought not be upset about my focus on one small part of your post, because from the get go your focus has been on one small part of mine. Socialism exists, and more often than not it's consequences are horrific. But even in some hardcore remote hippie commune, capitalism is a distinct part of human nature that can't be disappeared. It's how it is allowed to manifest itself that makes the difference.
In Cuba's case, you are absolutely correct that the people as a whole have not been allowed to participate in the market place nor benefit from it, but as I said before my post was in response to DeltaSierra saying that both socialism and capitalism steal from the people and that another system should be developed.
I know from prior topics and posts that we agree on many if not most things...this is a relatively minor thing that I simply believe is important to understanding the reasons that socialism fails. Even if it worked I would not be in favor of it as I prefer freedom, but none of the ideology ever even pans out as far as their desire to do away with capitalism.
I am willing to put this to rest between us two and just calk it up to different viewpoints while being on the same page. You are coming from a viewpoint that is looking at this in a philisophical, academic way...and to an extent you are right that there are "shades" of capitalism in every form of economic policy. However, I am coming from a more personal side where, especially when it involves my family, I will not give any credit to the Cuban government for having any sort of "capitalism" built into their economic policy, and will call it the way I see it. My dad, who lived there, will do the same. For the people who lived there, and suffered there, I can promise you they would be apalled to hear that their economy is being referred to as any type of capitalism.
I'm not saying that you are (philosophically) wrong, but I call a spade a spade, and Cuba's economy is Socialist in nature. They are slowly moving towards capitalism, but that is only because Fidel is out of the picture and Raul is allowing it only so the people don't revolt.
As for only addressing one part of your original post, you are right...like I said, it is a personal issue and it just got my blood pumping to see Cuba referred to as "capitalist"...so I have included your original post to try to address the parts that I missed.
Do Microsoft and Apple steal from people? I'm not saying they're perfect(data mining etc...) but are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates rich because they have stolen from people? Or collectively have the two of them enriched our lives and created far more prosperity than their collective net worth?
Agree here. The problem is not the large corporations or the Wall Street bankers (as a whole), the problem is in our Government/the Fed and their monetary policy and their move towards a more socialized state. There are some very corrupt people in Wall Street who need to be held accountable for their part in this economic crisis, but the same needs to go for the government officials as well. If government officials weren't being bought off by large corporations to "protect their interests" at the expense of the rest of the people, then we wouldn't even be talking about large corporations. The EPA is another BIG problem, but don't even get me started on them!
Capitalism has existed in every society. Communist China? Capitalist. Soviet Union? Capitalist. Cuba? Capitalist. The difference is what kind of capitalism...is it the kind that we're attempting to cling to? The kind that allows for freedom and the ability to succeed or fail no matter what your current status is? Or is it controlled by government. Nothing else other than shades between the two extremes will ever exist.
For "another way" to come about you would have to defy human nature and it would require violence like the world has never seen to implement.
Already been down this road...but I do agree with the last sentence. The only way to have "another way" is for a complete revolution whether that involves violence or not...most of the time it does. But that is not what we NEED. Our government has been around under the same Constitution for a longer period of time than any other government EVER. We may need to change something here and there, but "another way" is not the answer.
This is true...and I don't think anyone is arguing that the bank bailouts and all that happened during that period was absolute theft and obscene on many levels. But I think most are saying that we have to be careful who we side with. The people in the streets? Please. If you think they understand monetary policy or have a desire to do anything other some some bolshevik rebellion you're kidding yourself. What we currently have is better than they would give us.
100% agree here. The people in the streets want that "other way"...and in case you aren't tuned in as clear, or can't read between the lines, these people's "other way" is socialism. Make no mistake, these people are Socialist/Marxist. The people marching on Wall Street want bigger government to control every aspect because they think that the government will "do what's best" for the People. I don't know about you, but that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy!
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 21:22
I agree.
However, I doubt anyone but a few of the biggest names are making $150k as philosophy professors. My BIL is a PhD from Yale History professor (not the same thing about about as useful) at one of the largest private universities and he probably makes around $60-70k now (started at $42k but has since published some stuff and also got tenure) and he has been working there around 7 or 8 years. He made much more money as a Major on active duty in Afghanistan for 8 months (called up from his reserve position) than he makes as a PhD prof in a liberal arts field.
He likes it as he is the academic type.
I guess it depends on the school. FWIW I was a TA in HS for a teacher who had published work, and he made more than that in his 20's which he was at the time. In fact my friends and I (including the one who went to UCLA) went up to Solvang for a day once when our teachers went on strike. They tried to hold the entire school in the gym, let us our for a break, and at least half the kids just left.
Anyways either way there are tons of useless BA degrees out there being sold. One of the tracks I looked into was GIS which is geographical information like making maps and intergrating that with human events and geology. But if you go a BS in geography they do the same thing but with a much more math/science based approach. Very fine line between them but if you want to get hired you have to go the BS route which is what Im starting. My dad has worked several major overseas jobs and is well connected in his field with engineering in the ME. BA in maps/geography is worthless to the companies he works with. BS in the field Im going to is easy money. FWIW he is a superintendent of an Exxon Mobil project in S Iraq.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 21:23
This country's plutocratic pricks and their bought and paid for politicians had best start paying attention to which way the wind is blowin'.
Whether it's middle-aged white guys wearing wigs and tricorne hats or college kids with earbuds and tie-dye T-shirts, the natives are gettin' restless.
Best line I heard today is the 700 protesters arrested this weekend is 700 more than were arrested at all of the Tea Party rallies.
Oh my damn. What a bunch of sadsack shitbags. Everybody's got troubles, but geez.
I must go to that site, and post up my sad face with a sign that explains I grew up in a small town with a poor working family with a mechanic dad and stay at home mom, worked hard, made good grades, was a national merit scholar, got so many scholarships I made money to go to school every semester, chose a profession that has an actual "career path" and "economic viability" and now at under 30 I have a great job, house, wife and 3 kids, and am living the "American dream", warts and all, that they're whining about not being handed. I've got debt (not student debt), and every bit of it is my own damn fault for taking on things I couldn't afford at the time. Nobody's going to bail me out, I don't expect it, and I don't want it.
Like Belmont says, these wussies should be protesting their sham academia that's convinced them they have a right to do whatever they want on a whim and then be rewarded handsomely for it.
There's a great deal wrong with our financial system, but these idiots are so far off it's like suggesting the best way to put out a house fire is by painting a house 3 blocks down with watercolors. WTF, over.
ForTehNguyen
10-03-11, 21:59
these kids dont even see the true problem with college tuition prices. It's because of govt cosigning every damn kid a college loan without caring what they will major in. No wonder tuitition prices are going up, its exactly the same as the housing market that *shock* govt helped inflate. Now they let any kid with a pulse basically get college loans, and there are far too many people NOT cut out for college there. Hence, you get people like in the above picture.
My parents didnt need to take a mortgage (without the house) when they went to college. Govt wasnt cosigning loans back then, and it was affordable because of that.
http://i.imgur.com/qxqBu.jpg
1. Some people are going to college that shouldn't be. :suicide2:
2. I see, dumb people.
3. College is a business to make money, alot, if you're dumb about it. They're protesting the wrong place, it was the college that put them in debt, moreso than wall street. Now they want they want us to bail them out, :shout:
Oh my damn. What a bunch of sadsack shitbags. Everybody's got troubles, but geez.
I must go to that site, and post up my sad face with a sign that explains I grew up in a small town with a poor working family with a mechanic dad and stay at home mom, worked hard, made good grades, was a national merit scholar, got so many scholarships I made money to go to school every semester, chose a profession that has an actual "career path" and "economic viability" and now at under 30 I have a great job, house, wife and 3 kids, and am living the "American dream", warts and all, that they're whining about not being handed. I've got debt (not student debt), and every bit of it is my own damn fault for taking on things I couldn't afford at the time. Nobody's going to bail me out, I don't expect it, and I don't want it.
Like Belmont says, these wussies should be protesting their sham academia that's convinced them they have a right to do whatever they want on a whim and then be rewarded handsomely for it.
There's a great deal wrong with our financial system, but these idiots are so far off it's like suggesting the best way to put out a house fire is by painting a house 3 blocks down with watercolors. WTF, over.
everyone of those kids remind me of the tools i went to college with. i was mocked for working in a grocery store, i paid my tuition that way. i still work for the same company and will be a home owner soon. when i crack open the first bottle 'o beer after i get the house, maybe ill pour a little out for them. or not.
Thomas M-4
10-03-11, 22:35
Its all about money, money, money and money [did I mention the part about money?].
The schools will charge the maximum for tuition that the government will make loan for. If you look at what some of these schools have for programs its damn near criminal . They offer programs that pre-apon juvenile misconceptions and dreams.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 22:57
Its all about money, money, money and money [did I mention the part about money?].
The schools will charge the maximum for tuition that the government will make loan for. If you look at what some of these schools have for programs its damn near criminal . They offer programs that pre-apon juvenile misconceptions and dreams.
I can't track down the stats right now but college tuitition is directly linked to the availability of government backed loans. The more the gov is willing to back "free college money" the higher tuition has gone. This means middle class kids who's parents make too much are forced to work through college and/or take loans out while lower income students get a free ride. The dynamics are changing, and college is becoming more like HS where everyone gets a diploma. Some kids work their asses off to get 4.0's in pre-college classes while others do the miminum in alternative language courses catered to kids who don't speak english as a first language. Everyone gets a degree, and suddenly working your ass off for 4 years gets you the same thing as Juan down the road who got free tutors and everything paid for while employers look at this and say 15/hr for a bachelors.
Mentioned before but a while ago I was looking through local lobs and found a national cell phone carrier wanting a sales person with a 4 year degree starting paying 12 or 13 an hour. Bar is being lowered because "anyone can go to college" now and colleges have turned into money making enterprises rather than about turning out educated students.
Thomas M-4
10-03-11, 23:08
I can't track down the stats right now but college tuitition is directly linked to the availability of government backed loans. The more the gov is willing to back "free college money" the higher tuition has gone. This means middle class kids who's parents make too much are forced to work through college and/or take loans out while lower income students get a free ride. The dynamics are changing, and college is becoming more like HS where everyone gets a diploma. Some kids work their asses off to get 4.0's in pre-college classes while others do the miminum in alternative language courses catered to kids who don't speak english as a first language. Everyone gets a degree, and suddenly working your ass off for 4 years gets you the same thing as Juan down the road who got free tutors and everything paid for while employers look at this and say 15/hr for a bachelors.
Mentioned before but a while ago I was looking through local lobs and found a national cell phone carrier wanting a sales person with a 4 year degree starting paying 12 or 13 an hour. Bar is being lowered because "anyone can go to college" now and colleges have turned into money making enterprises rather than about turning out educated students.
There is a second component to that and that is illegal immigration [cheap ass labor] and manufacturing jobs being shipped over seas .
I remember when a good kid that would work hard could make that amount working in a warehouse.
Thomas M-4
10-03-11, 23:21
Its all about the government backed loans.
I worked at a college for almost 7yrs if I counted all of my immediate family total time in would be close to 40yrs experience total.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 23:24
[/U]
There is a second component to that and that is illegal immigration [cheap ass labor] and manufacturing jobs being shipped over seas .
I remember when a good kid that would work hard could make that amount working in a warehouse.
In HS I worked either ROP (program for kids to pick a local business to work for from lunch time to 430PM) or when I didn't do ROP I worked at a driving range or several other jobs until I joined the mil. In addition growing up my parents raised very expensive arabian horses, and I was constantly shoveling shit as long as I can remember. Mom even got into showing rabbits and I helped her with that as it was a side business (think $400 for one rabbit in 2000 dollars) and got me my play money for the weekends. Anyways where I grew up we had lots of wineries around, and all the labor was illegals. Even my own family had illegals working for us one day a week for 10/hr with lunch. My stance on illegals is pretty varied since Ive seen both ends of the spectrum and also have a libertarian stance on things.
Thomas M-4
10-04-11, 00:08
Mentioned before but a while ago I was looking through local lobs and found a national cell phone carrier wanting a sales person with a 4 year degree starting paying 12 or 13 an hour. Bar is being lowered because "anyone can go to college" now and colleges have turned into money making enterprises rather than about turning out educated students.
That tells you something some people say the bar is being lowered.
I don't know if that is entirely true I still had teachers that had no compunction to fell your ass right out if you didn't pull your weight. But I can coincide that the sear number of schools popping up that it could be happening to a degree. The biggest problem that I see and it is repeated time and again in the industry is over saturation. You cant throw a rock down the street with out hitting 6 PHD's in the head.
To barrow an old term.:(
ask them would you like free things and free school free medical etc.. if so step in this line !
in that line take their passports and put them on a boat to cuba
good bye
since cuba opened their prisons on us many years ago lets return the favor and give them all our idiots !
Thomas M-4
10-04-11, 00:30
In HS I worked either ROP (program for kids to pick a local business to work for from lunch time to 430PM) or when I didn't do ROP I worked at a driving range or several other jobs until I joined the mil. In addition growing up my parents raised very expensive arabian horses, and I was constantly shoveling shit as long as I can remember. Mom even got into showing rabbits and I helped her with that as it was a side business (think $400 for one rabbit in 2000 dollars) and got me my play money for the weekends. Anyways where I grew up we had lots of wineries around, and all the labor was illegals. Even my own family had illegals working for us one day a week for 10/hr with lunch. My stance on illegals is pretty varied since Ive seen both ends of the spectrum and also have a libertarian stance on things.
We are all from immigrant in some-part unless you are 100% Indian. I am a heinz 57 :D my self . I am old enough to remember a time in my area of the conus before mass illegal immigration.
I am not against immigration I just would like to see responsible immigration.
Mauser KAR98K
10-04-11, 03:20
http://i.imgur.com/qxqBu.jpg
I look at this and shake my head. I'm a junior at a good size college, live with my folks, and have about $20,000-$30,000 in loans. Nice thing is, I got a pell grant and none-traditional student scholarship to boot that I didn't apply for, but I got it. This means no more loans with the access I already have. Unfortunately, tuition is going up 9% next year.
But I laugh and and say WTF to those that are going 5+ years in college. What the **** did they do? Is it because they went to a "prestigious" college, went to one out of state (retard), or they ****ed off too long? I ask this because I started out in a community college, in-state, to do remedial math courses along with my general studies. It put me behind a bit and I was looking at an additional semester...that was until last year when I did 36 hrs (two 18 -hour semesters). I went from a freshmen standing to a junior standing, and even took a summer class because I was unemployed and didn't want to sit around and do jack-shit. Now the way it is looking, with a summer semester, I will graduate out in next year in December and will have cut a half a year off in my four year degree.
The above are a bunch of lazy asses who probably don't even take but 12 hrs of school to keep their 3.9. I can care less (well, I'd like to get my 3.5 back) but I know this is costing me money, time, and stress on my body, and quite frankly, I'm ready to go back to a full time job and bring in the money.
Apparently this day of rage bullshit is spreading to a major cities, including Tulsa, OK. Many of revolutions and mass murder have been sparked by students who think they know everything. Most dangerous thing on the Earth is an 18 to 20-somthings whom think they are invincible.
I've been laughing at all this going on for my own reasons, and I won't throw those in because it doesn't go anywhere, arguing opinions on politics on the internet.
BUT I was speaking with my grandfather last night about a few things and he actually brought this up, asking if I had seen it in the news (because that's all he watches). I said yes of course. He goes off on a rant that made me laugh, I struggled to scribble fast enough to take it down accurately:
"This is utter bullshit. For years I've trashed your generation and most of the time I feel like it has fallen on deaf ears. But now do you begin to see why I say the things I do? I don't mean to constantly bring up my generation, but compare the two. Our economy wasn't bad...it was abysmal. My parents worked 12 hours and barely got out in time to get in the breadline. Then we went to war. Was there any protesting? No. The men went to war, 15 year old boys forged ID's so they could serve, and the women went to work in the factories. And we died in the thousands. Shipped home in boxes. How many protests were there? 0 that I heard of. THAT's what America's all about. Or used to be about. Stepping up and facing problems head-on. Things are rarely 'your fault', but because you did nothing to be on the receiving end of the current state of affairs doesn't mean your generation can't step up and shoulder some burden. If you people put as much effort into running for public office as you do in protesting, we'd turn this country around in a hurry. But this isn't ****ing Egypt and this isn't the post-Vietnam era. Protests aren't the solution. And they say they're helping raise awareness? With media the way it is in our society today how much more aware can we get? You have it better than any other generation in our history so you all should stop your bitching, man up, and turn this country around. It's on you all, it's nobody elses problem so don't count on them to fix it for you."
Ssgt Allistair Dunn, Ret.
8 years army air corps, 10th air force
Recipient, Distinguished Flying Cross
Executive Director, Montgomery County Veteran Service Center
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/grandpa.jpg
5th one down.
"I will NOT let my debt define my existence..." says the chick that just identified herself as "The 99%" and is doing exactly that.
Keep rocking the Naughty Librarian glasses on the pole for a couple of years after graduation, before your first shell of a marriage (at which point you're going to let yourself go to crap and let dat azz cease to be anything that could be called a "moneymaker")....debt "problem" solved.
*DISCLAIMER: Arguably, the debt may simply shift from one of the Fannies to one's coke dealer.
NEXT!
I get the feeling that she forgot a zero in there somewhere (indicative of a likely factor of the underlying problem -- lack of attention to detail), but still...
TRY to tell me that the world doesn't need strippers, too.
Keep rocking the Naughty Librarian glasses on the pole for a couple of years after graduation
:haha: JSantoro for President!
Neither Socialism or Capitalism are workable systems, as history has shown.
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
Really?? Please explain citing examples. Most of the Socialist countries in Europe are in financial peril and Communist seems to have a great track record:rolleyes:
There are people here celebrating a rally organized by grossly uneducated and misinformed people who are openly demanding we go to a Socialist or Communist system (at least those who even have an answer as to why they are there). They also talk in vague generalities.
You are not entitled to a bakers bread just because he bakes bread and you are hungry.
Not sure if you guys have seen this article, but it pretty much echoes what is being said in this thread:
http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-protesters-call-totalitarian-government-re-election-of-obama/
JP Morgan is attempting to buy protection from an ever increasingly angry public by donating $4.6 million to NYPD. http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm?TB_iframe=true&height=580&width=850
jklaughrey
10-05-11, 11:01
I say that when one considers you can make yourself into a success even if hailing from the most humble beginnings. Let the protesters "eat some ****ing cake". So what if the "Bourgeoisie" are better off. I am damn sure that given my current economic status that I am in a better position here in the US than if I was displaced and put somewhere else in the world.
I say that when one considers you can make yourself into a success even if hailing from the most humble beginnings. Let the protesters "eat some ****ing cake". So what if the "Bourgeoisie" are better off. I am damn sure that given my current economic status that I am in a better position here in the US than if I was displaced and put somewhere else in the world.
And THAT is exactly what people fail to realize! If you don't like it so much here, then move your ass to a different country and see for yourself how well off you have it!
4x4twenty6
10-05-11, 12:38
I am pro capitalism to the core.
I love this country but hate the direction that it is heading.
There are so many problems with this country i dont think we can ever get back to where we once were.
I think we are too far gone.
Capitalism has existed in every society. Communist China? Capitalist. Soviet Union? Capitalist. Cuba? Capitalist.
This is the dumbest thing I've read on the internet in some time, so kudos to you.
All the countries you listed are/were communist with varying degrees of central planning throughout their histories. Until very recently China didn't even have individual property rights codified. China still has 5 year plans in their centrally planned economy. The Soviet Union had centralized economic planning for it's entire existence. Perestroika was a reform in part to reduce some of the centralized planning and introduce little bits of private property and free market and then the whole thing went tits up. Cuba is much the same.
The notion these countries are "capitalist" is laughable.
Does democracy, capitalism, and American "freedom" all mean the same thing?
Also just outta curiosity, how many people in this thread have a college degree? how many people that have a college degree have it in economics, finance, accounting, or anything else within the College of Business?
4x4twenty6
10-05-11, 14:02
I took a few economics courses in college but decided to become a cop instead. It is way more fun. I was going to be a financial advisor or something in that area of expertise but decided that sitting behind a desk was not my thing. I am happy with my decision.
Democracy, Capitalism and Freedom do not all mean the same thing. But I think they make a nice menage a trois. haha
What are trying to get at it with your question?
Thomas M-4
10-05-11, 14:40
Does democracy, capitalism, and American "freedom" all mean the same thing?
Also just outta curiosity, how many people in this thread have a college degree? how many people that have a college degree have it in economics, finance, accounting, or anything else within the College of Business?
Its simple Right now we have neither.
If we had capitalism those rich arrogant bastards would'nt be drinking champagne they would be broke and looking for a job like the people below them. Instead they got a $4 trillion dollar bail out and got to keep there opulent paying jobs. Wall-street should of had blood running through the streets back when the market collapsed.
Instead they ran to uncle sugar-daddy screaming Armageddon if they didn't get want they wanted.
If we had socialism those companies wouldn't be making any money because everything would be subsidized.
LOL we got the worst of both right now. :suicide2:
I had no nasty hidden motives w/ my questions, rather I just read this thread from start to finish and those were some questions that came to mind. Somehow college students have been assigned labels, somehow terminology has changed meanings, etc. Honestly this thread is all over the place:)
We have a generational thing going on...we have a hardcore nationalism thing going on...we have extreme right vs. extreme left thing going on...
eta...that's a solid reply Thomas, and taps into the real magnitude of this problem. I originally thought we were just shitting on Wall Street fat cats playing fast and loose w/ other people's hard earned money, however I'm willing to just as easily shit on arrogant and ignorant college kids, commies, or politicians.
Belmont31R
10-05-11, 15:13
Its simple Right now we have neither.
If we had capitalism those rich arrogant bastards would'nt be drinking champagne they would be broke and looking for a job like the people below them. Instead they got a $4 trillion dollar bail out and got to keep there opulent paying jobs. Wall-street should of had blood running through the streets back when the market collapsed.
Instead they ran to uncle sugar-daddy screaming Armageddon if they didn't get want they wanted.
If we had socialism those companies wouldn't be making any money because everything would be subsidized.
LOL we got the worst of both right now. :suicide2:
I believe the term is oligarchy which is control mixed among a few and the few can be several different things from corporations to government to any other person among the "elite".
Our government basically taxed people with the threat of jail time and property seizure if they don't pay, and then turned over hundreds of billions to the corporations...guys who make millions of dollars a year. Not to mention the Fed Reserve loaned trillions of dollars out. So we the average dude is bent over a barrel worrying about keeping his job on, the lights on at home, his house, food, and keeping a marriage going these ass hats took public money, made millions in personal wealth, and the average American is left holding the bill.
Where I disagree with the protesters is they basically want government control and socialism/communism to rule the day instead of freedom and consequences. One of the main reasons the Tea Party was started was protesting against Bush and TARP. I went to one of the first Tea Party protests a couple years ago and that was one of the main themes. These occupy wall street people are a dollar short and a day late to the anti corporatism/bailout deals that went on.
More than likely they see the dwindling polls for their messiah and see less & less support so they are lashing out like little kids who see their toy getting taken away. I also think its being spurred on by the communist trolls like Soros, the unions, and other progressive groups.
4x4twenty6
10-05-11, 15:17
Capitalism is lacking because of all the manipulation of the free market in certain peoples favor rather than letting the market sort itself out.
Democracy is lacking because our elected officials do not have their constituents in their best interest, rather the lobbyists are getting preferential treatment from the elected officials over the people they represent.
Freedom is getting smaller and smaller because of all the rules and regulations that are being passed. Instead of punishing those who do wrong, we good people are being restricted more and more.
Perfect example is gun rights which are under attack all of the time.
I watched a movie called runaway jury the other day for the first time. It was stupid. The thought of a person sueing a gun company for the death of their spouse because they were murdered by a bad guy with one of their guns is absolutely ****ing retarded. I was disgusted by that.
If guns kill people then cars run red lights and pencils mispell words.
Thomas M-4
10-05-11, 15:26
I believe the term is oligarchy which is control mixed among a few and the few can be several different things from corporations to government to any other person among the "elite".
Our government basically taxed people with the threat of jail time and property seizure if they don't pay, and then turned over hundreds of billions to the corporations...guys who make millions of dollars a year. Not to mention the Fed Reserve loaned trillions of dollars out. So we the average dude is bent over a barrel worrying about keeping his job on, the lights on at home, his house, food, and keeping a marriage going these ass hats took public money, made millions in personal wealth, and the average American is left holding the bill.
Where I disagree with the protesters is they basically want government control and socialism/communism to rule the day instead of freedom and consequences. One of the main reasons the Tea Party was started was protesting against Bush and TARP. I went to one of the first Tea Party protests a couple years ago and that was one of the main themes. These occupy wall street people are a dollar short and a day late to the anti corporatism/bailout deals that went on.
More than likely they see the dwindling polls for their messiah and see less & less support so they are lashing out like little kids who see their toy getting taken away. I also think its being spurred on by the communist trolls like Soros, the unions, and other progressive groups.
100% agree On all accounts .
I had no nasty hidden motives w/ my questions, rather I just read this thread from start to finish and those were some questions that came to mind. Somehow college students have been assigned labels, somehow terminology has changed meanings, etc. Honestly this thread is all over the place:)
We have a generational thing going on...we have a hardcore nationalism thing going on...we have extreme right vs. extreme left thing going on...
eta...that's a solid reply Thomas, and taps into the real magnitude of this problem. I originally thought we were just shitting on Wall Street fat cats playing fast and loose w/ other people's hard earned money, however I'm willing to just as easily shit on arrogant and ignorant college kids, commies, or politicians.
The one thing we don't have these days is Americanism. Seems folks have forgotten what it means to be an American. :(
Belmont31R
10-05-11, 15:29
Capitalism is lacking because of all the manipulation of the free market in certain peoples favor rather than letting the market sort itself out.
Democracy is lacking because our elected officials do not have their constituents in their best interest, rather the lobbyists are getting preferential treatment from the elected officials over the people they represent.
Freedom is getting smaller and smaller because of all the rules and regulations that are being passed. Instead of punishing those who do wrong, we good people are being restricted more and more.
Perfect example is gun rights which are under attack all of the time.
I watched a movie called runaway jury the other day for the first time. It was stupid. The thought of a person sueing a gun company for the death of their spouse because they were murdered by a bad guy with one of their guns is absolutely ****ing retarded. I was disgusted by that.
If guns kill people then cars run red lights and pencils mispell words.
Democracy is not what we live in. If we did we would all be voting on every single law ourselves. Basically mob rule.
We live in a republic where we elect people based on demographics and geography to vote for us under the protections of the Constitution.
Capitalism can be abusive but people have a greater level of responsibility in things than simply letting the government control everything. I think capitalism is great as so long as there are a very limited and basic set of laws in place to make things work such as contract law, deceptive business practices, and I don't think child labor is all that great, either. I don't think businesses should be able to lie, bait and switch advertising, ect. Limited government works really well with lightly controlled capitalism, and is the best system ever created when it comes to advancing commerce and recnognizing individual freedom.
Unfortunately we have moved away with that where the government spends hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars subsidizing and supporting certain businesses/industries with tax law, direct gifts of money, and other assorted valuable items/policy. Americans have failed to keep business or government in check, and if we didn't want to see CEO's making 20 million a year we would stop doing business with that company. Its not encouraging to see people looking to government to solve free market issues like this when the real answer is voting with your wallet. Now we're also allowing the government to pick which businesses fail, which ones don't, and the system is just a mess right now.
The one thing we don't have these days is Americanism. Seems folks have forgotten what it means to be an American. :(
I'd agree, however I believe my grandfather's generation(WWII) was the last one that had the opportunity to even believe in the concept of "Americanism". The idea of "Americanism" has only been more diluted and diluted as each decade has passed since the 1940's imho.
4x4twenty6
10-05-11, 18:19
Belmont, well said.
I completely understand what you said about democracy. I was identifying the fact that we are not being accurately represented.
"Democracy is a form of government in which all people have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives."
A bunch of hypocrites and brainwashed college kids protesting corporate income while they're using their Apple Iphones, Blackberrys, Motorla Droids, Facebook, Twitter, HP, Dell, and Apple labtops, drinking Starbucks. Most if not all are Fortune 500 companies with huge profits.
Both sides have points but both sides are also part of the problem.
I am a Capitalist. I love the idea of Capitalism. However That doesn't give companies the right to grind people under. And that is exactly what a lot of companies are doing. And they are doing it right after they received bailouts from the government.
Of course the age old answer is go to a different company. That is the capitalist thing to do. And if there is not another company then start one. Sadly in the world today that isn't always an option.
Wall street is indeed a big part of the current economic problem. But what these people fail to realize is that they are equally at fault.
Hating on college kids is petty and usually reflects jealousy towards them and a personal lack of social status. While I'm no longer down at Auburn, I can all but promise there isn't any kids on Wall Street protesting from the plains.
When I was getting my degree, oddly enough I went to class, work, and the SPE house....not protests in NYC.
RancidSumo
10-05-11, 19:40
I agree that lumping all college students into the "don't know shit about the real world" category is a mistake. I'm lucky in that I don't have to put up with too many of the idiot persuasion in my classes and I hope that I'm not considered part of it.
However, I don't think that anyone here was doing that.
Hating on college kids is petty and usually reflects jealousy towards them and a personal lack of social status. While I'm no longer down at Auburn, I can all but promise there isn't any kids on Wall Street protesting from the plains.
When I was getting my degree, oddly enough I went to class, work, and the SPE house....not protests in NYC.
Where is my damn like button... Jacked up 4 wheel drives with Browning Buckmark stickers are very very common on campus. Most of the kids I have worked around had their heads screwed on right.
Crow Hunter
10-05-11, 20:21
A large portion of those posting on the blogs are morons and deserve what they got. If you spent $160k to "pursue your dreams" and get a degree in Fine Arts or Creative Writing or Painting, you are an idiot, but there are quite a few that are in genuine dire straits and need help.
The government should NOT have bailed out those companies. They should have been allowed to fail, just like those morons in the blogs. But they were worried about campaign contributions, not about the fallout of their decisions because they live separate lives from the rest of "us".
That being said, the way to fix it is NOT Socialism.
In my opinion, the quickest fix would be to enact term limits for all elected positions within the federal government.
If I can't be re-elected and I have to go back home and live with the laws that I created and the people I screwed, I will do things alot differently. Take those members of the Tea Party that pissed off both the Left and the Right because they wouldn't compromise. They were there to do a job and they didn't give a shit about getting re-elected.
Corporations/unions/rich/welfare moms/NRA/VPC will suddenly have significantly less power. They will still have some, but not like they wield today.
The politicians doing whatever they have to do to stay in office is what is ruining our country.
They should be there to serve their country, not serve the interests that will keep them in office.
To Trident's question, I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering BSME 1997. It wasn't my "dream", I hate math. It took me 6 years to struggle through it while working the whole time at everything from a factory worker to a house painter to a grocery bagger.
I love History, particularly Military History and early North American Archeology (I used to love looking for Indian artifacts on the river until they made it illegal:mad:). I wanted to be an Archeologist but I did research before I got into college and found out what jobs were in demand and I went to college so that I could get a good job, not to find a "dream".
I have little sympathy/pity for "dreamers".
I am kind of like that kid in that old public service announcement that is walking by the guy on the sidewalk playing music and tells him to get a job, to the shock of his mother.:D
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-05-11, 20:35
Are those 99% people supposed to be arguements for or against socialism??
Obama is always talking about how the 2% need to pay more. I'm thinking of starting a "2%" website explaining to these 99% people just how you do it.
Where is my damn like button... Jacked up 4 wheel drives with Browning Buckmark stickers are very very common on campus. Most of the kids I have worked around had their heads screwed on right.
Your a lucky man living down there, besides the 10,000 beautiful woman that inhabit the place, the whole town moves to a totally different tempo than anywhere else I've personally lived. People are kinder, friendlier, and generally very enjoyable to be around. Enjoy that place for both of us pal:)
I just thought this thread was about the behavior of those on the balcony and made the mistake of not putting any thought into the protestors, however I will easily cede the fact that I more than likely don't agree with any of the motives or reasons they happen to be protesting for.
College kids have a million faults, I was guilty more than likely of the majority of them while I was going to school, however I just don't see the correlation b/t those protestors and your typical college student. This goes to the generational thing going on in this thread I believe as my parents generation included a ton of college kids who protested whereas my generation has very little to protest about as most of us have it pretty damn good while going to school.
eta...crow hunter, you must be a pretty smart cat to major in mech eng. Had a cpl. pals who were in the College of Engineering at AU and they busted their ass far more than I ever did.
I figured you might like this...we found the Native American artifacts on the left where my Mother grew up in Ohio. Found the Civil War bullets on the land my father grew up on in Atlanta that borders the Chattahoochee River. Little history there I think:)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00966-1.jpg
It is and I derailed a bit to sing the praises of my home place.
The college kids protesting are not typical I am sure. The Wall St. creatures did not help their cause by sipping bubbly and making snide remarks ect.
The fact remains that those not employed at Wall St. do not totally understand. If these idiots were protesting at my work place I would look at them much the same Im sure minus the drink.
While the common thread I have seen with 99%ers is college. Are all universities left leaning? I think so more so north of the Mason-Dixon.
None of this is to be interpreted that I agree with Wall St., the protestors, or that I even understand the situation in its entirety.
Crow Hunter
10-05-11, 21:49
eta...crow hunter, you must be a pretty smart cat to major in mech eng. Had a cpl. pals who were in the College of Engineering at AU and they busted their ass far more than I ever did.
I figured you might like this...we found the Native American artifacts on the left where my Mother grew up in Ohio. Found the Civil War bullets on the land my father grew up on in Atlanta that borders the Chattahoochee River. Little history there I think:)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00966-1.jpg
Not smart, just a hard worker. Took me 6 years to graduate.:p
Those are some nice points. Particuarly that St. Charles Dovetail in the middle. Those are hard to find with the tail intact and basically "NIB" not broken and resharpened. Must have been one someone made, cached and never managed to recover. Approximately 2000-4000 years old. Middle to Late Woodland period, from what I can remember, it's been a while.
We used to find alot of Minie balls too. I did alot of Indian artifact hunting on the Tennessee & Cumberland rivers, several Civil War battles were fought in the general area and we would often find Minie balls/grapeshot/buck shot washed out of the river banks after the water had been up. I miss doing that, especially with my Dad. Used to be legal, now you get fined and lose your artifacts if you do it. All those beautiful artifacts washing out into the bottom of the river for mussel divers to step on and break....:cray:
I'd give them the damn points if I just wouldn't get fined, I just enjoyed the hunt and recovering them, almost like discovering buried treasure. Stupid grave robbing antiquity smugglers ruined it for all of us.
Now you can only look on private land, no public or TVA right of ways. Of course, that is the best place to look, because the points just wash out by river action and remain as they were when they were last seen by man.
On private land all they do now is No Till farming so no one turns the ground over anymore. It is almost impossible to find them before they are disc'd and broken.
*Sigh*
Sorry for the derail.:thank_you2:
VooDoo6Actual
10-05-11, 21:56
redacted.
4x4twenty6
10-06-11, 07:39
These idiots on wall street are ****ing lame.
I too hate that the banks got bailouts and think we need some serious tax reform and less government intrusion into the free market. But it seems some of their other complaints are anti capitalist. They are all tweeting how much they hate these 1% on their Iphones and blackberrys and communicating their cause on the internet.
All of which who have made people incredibly rich. I have been doing some reading of my own and checking the tv in regards to this movement and my conclusion is that it is ridiculous, unorganized and waste of time.
jklaughrey
10-06-11, 08:10
Just declare their actions criminal, gas them, and call it a day? Oops, did I just say that?
Seriously, while they may have a few points that everyone should hear regarding corporate malfeasance and bailouts. Their approach is only causing anyone who might have heard their message in a serious manner doubts regarding the validity of their protest. While I agree at some point we can all be hypocrites, the protesters have made it very apparent that they are "hypocrites". They have pretty much removed any doubt of that notion when they complain, yet still use the tools of corporate America to further their cause(bitch).
CarlosDJackal
10-06-11, 08:38
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/06/technology/occupy_wall_street/index.htm
If the fact that unions such as the AFL-CIO joining doesn't clue anyone that this is a bogus protest, nothing will. Based on why they are conducting this protest and who has been joining it, I'd say that their real purpose is to push for increased Socialism and/or Anarchy.
Since this is not in keeping with our what out Republic is founded on, I'd say that these so-called "protesters" have established that they are a threat to our way of life and should be treated like the treasonous pieces of whale shit that they are. JM2CW.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/06/technology/occupy_wall_street/index.htm
If the fact that unions such as the AFL-CIO joining doesn't clue anyone that this is a bogus protest, nothing will. Based on why they are conducting this protest and who has been joining it, I'd say that their real purpose is to push for increased Socialism and/or Anarchy.
Since this is not in keeping with our what out Republic is founded on, I'd say that these so-called "protesters" have established that they are a threat to our way of life and should be treated like the treasonous pieces of whale shit that they are. JM2CW.
i took a gander at occupywallst.org and some of the members have expressed disdain for being co-opted by commies, but that wont stop the new tools who are showing up, they just want to protest something. As my cousin says, "they have to brag about something during their vacation in europe next summer".
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-06-11, 10:10
Any kids posting on that 99% website majoring in engineering, chemistry, biology, nursing or accounting???
How about we take the companies that have added jobs in the last five years and we ask them what majors and education they want new hires to have in five years and we hand out scholarships
Belmont31R
10-06-11, 10:16
Looks like someone got some stick time...
http://youtu.be/xpOMlDVaXzc
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-06-11, 10:25
How do you start one of those Blog things??? Here is my response to the 99%
I went to a Catholic Grade school because the public schools in my neighborhood weren’t educating children. Luckily my Dad had quit his teaching job and moved from one sales job to another, always in better positions. By the time high school came around we could move to a suburb that had excellent public schools and high property taxes. I took classes like Latin, organic chemistry, AP biology.
After high school I received a partial scholarship to a Jesuit University where I majored in chemistry and minored in biology and took extra American history classes for fun. I worked two jobs during the summer and part time during the school year and along with the scholarship and help from my parents I was able to graduate with no debt. I was pre-med but medical schools and I agreed that the best way for me to save lives was not to practice medicine. You don’t always get your dream job; have a back-up plan.
I got an entry level job in industrial chemistry- the materials that are all around. While working full time, I went to school at night to get my MBA- taking two or three classes year round. I missed one class in three years. At the same time I met my future wife while she was completing medical school.
After completing my MBA I started selling specialty chemicals. I spent more time in rental cars than my own, I knew cities I went to business on better than the one I lived in. Eventually I worked myself into a position managing marketing and product development and I travel around the world promoting energy saving materials for building products.
My wife and I have between us twenty years of higher education in the equivalent of six degrees. We live in a major metro city and send our two kids to private schools. Between our two jobs, our kids have no idea what a 9-5 job is but one of us makes to every game or school event.
We are the 1%
Join us when you are done with your pity party
I think we actually fit better in the 2% that Obama wants to tax the bejezzus out of, but for symmetry I went with 1%
How do you start one of those Blog things??? Here is my response to the 99%
I think we actually fit better in the 2% that Obama wants to tax the bejezzus out of, but for symmetry I went with 1%
wordpress seems to be popular.
https://en.wordpress.com/signup/
Looks like someone got some stick time...
http://youtu.be/xpOMlDVaXzc
It's a good thing these "protests" aren't happening in the same way they're conducted in other countries. Watch the international news and see how the rest of the world does it. You'd see flying bottles, police and protesters getting stomped by one another, rubber bullets and tear gas flying and basically mayhem in general.
Honestly I think the average American has quite a bit of respect for the police, that's a good thing, because in any other country they would've been getting their asses kicked be a sea of people when they started swinging. Look at places like Britian where they have complete and utter disdain for the Bobbies and they routinely get the wind knocked out of their sails at football matches my massive crowds.
I'm not condoning any of these types of actions but I am saying we are pretty frickin' civil compared to the rest of the world.
Mauser KAR98K
10-06-11, 12:23
How do you start one of those Blog things??? Here is my response to the 99%
I think we actually fit better in the 2% that Obama wants to tax the bejezzus out of, but for symmetry I went with 1%
If you start one like this I will gladly post. There needs to be a counter protest to this.
Mauser KAR98K
10-06-11, 12:28
Found this. Spot on.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/06/we-are-the-1/
Looks like someone got some stick time...
http://youtu.be/xpOMlDVaXzc
Another angle and different perspective. http://youtu.be/-YXuvhg8Ahw
Then you have tax leech pieces of shit like this bragging that his nightstick is gonna get a work out. http://youtu.be/lBxPzhXFT6c I hope he takes a brick to the head.
The Greeks know how to riot! Complete with bloody pictures and such... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045628/Greece-strike-Debt-ridden-country-starts-24-hour-walkout.html
The constant use of the term "Capitalism" really bothers me. It infers that it is some sort of contrived economic system. Plus it is a socialist/communist word to describe the free market.
I much prefer "free market" as it is a far more accurate description. I may prefer the "Natural Market" more as it infers a lack of artificial manipulation. It is and has always been mans desire to manipulate the economy that has caused the most grief in the world. This always prolongs a recession or makes it worse.
4x4twenty6
10-06-11, 17:11
I tell you what guys, that fat ****ing cop talking about beating people really gives me a case of the red ass. People like that are a disgrace and will get theirs handed to them one day.
As for the overall situation in the other video when you have mobs of people acting a fool, lemme just tell you that is some scary shit.
I have worked enough mardi gras seasons to be able to speak first hand on just how much it sucks to know that you are out numbered.
Those people are protesting, its not like they have been on a parade route for 6+ hours getting ****ed up before the parade even starts.
I really feel for those guys because being that outnumbered weighs heavy on your mind.
For us during mardi gras we werent allowed to use OC spray or our Taser unless there was some extinuating circumstance. If you used either one you better be ready for an ass chewing. We had our guns, batons and most of us didnt even use it when we had huge fights break out. New Orleans and Surrounding Departments know how to handle a crowd and generally i think people know that very little is tolerated. Maybe the people in new york will realize there are consequences for their actions.
am I the only one in America who doesn't see wall street as the enemy of America?
Capitalism ROCKS!
Those knuckle heads can not even agree on why they are protesting. They do not even have an alternative idea to capitalism.
Look at who is organizing and funding the protests and they lose credibility. I am surprised these losers put down their bongs and emerged from grandmas basement.
Belmont31R
10-06-11, 18:36
Capitalism ROCKS!
Those knuckle heads can not even agree on why they are protesting. They do not even have an alternative idea to capitalism.
Look at who is organizing and funding the protests and they lose credibility. I am surprised these losers put down their bongs and emerged from grandmas basement.
Their grand daddy Soros has been a top .1% for years, and plays in the stock market extensively...yet he is the one funding a ton of their organizations and such.
VooDoo6Actual
10-06-11, 19:28
redacted.
Fascism is what they really are protesting not Capitalism.
Plain & simple....
WOW...somebody unlinked Capitalism from Wall Street. Bravo Sir, some people just cannot get that fact in this thread!!!
I just think the police should get barriers that are highly electrified ? put them up stand back out of throwing distance
some idiot touches him a bit more than a stun gun charge races through him ?
would solve some of the issues of controlling the crowd :)
WOW...somebody unlinked Capitalism from Wall Street. Bravo Sir, some people just cannot get that fact in this thread!!!
Hop, are you saying that they WANT capitalism? That they are protesting to instill a more perfect form of capitalism (aka "free market")? I was under the impression that these "99%" were protesting because they didn't get "their peice of the pie" and actually want socialism "for the good of everyone"???
And Trident, we don't have capitalism in this country. We have what you call "Croney Capitalism" where those in power pick the "winners and losers" and only those who buy their way will stay afloat via bailouts and subsidies. I agree that this is a big problem in Wall Street, but the root cause is the government. That needs to be changed before any "REAL" change will happen.
ForTehNguyen
10-06-11, 22:30
i wonder how many of these hippy douches are complaining about corporations while sitting at Starbucks on an iPad
They seem like reasonable folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio
They seem like reasonable folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio
That guy is some deranged homeless crackhead. His other videos are now all over youtube after getting his 15 minutes of fame on the O'Reilly Factor.
I suggest that the protestors take a page from the South Vietnamese with self-immolation. Maybe then I'll pay attention.
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 00:56
TOS is good for a few things here and there. Don't feel like rehosting pics so heres a thread there with lots of pics of the "Take Over" crew. Not a lot of people there: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1238405_Picture_thread_of_Occupy_Austin_Oct_6th___No_56K_.html
Heres the FIRST national tea party rally I went into APR of 2009 in San Antonio at the Alamo...
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0224.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0226.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0227.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0228.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0230.jpg
Yet these 99% assholes will be in the media for weeks minimum months most likely.
Look at the people supporting freedom here:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/7ff1e01a.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/e18e1c28.jpg
But the media will focus on the "99%" for months to come even though in NYC they number in the hundreds, and in their other cities its barely a showing. I can tell you when I went to the first TP rally in 2009 at the Alamo the entire area around the Alamo was filled, and it was impossible to get even close to the stage to see or hear anyone speaking.
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 01:00
Also if you follow the TOS link you will see one of the signs says "FDR Second Bill of Rights". If you've paid attention to my ramblings you'll have noticed Ive mentioned that very thing numerous times on this website....:p;)
WOW...somebody unlinked Capitalism from Wall Street. Bravo Sir, some people just cannot get that fact in this thread!!!
Perhaps people aren't getting that "fact" because the protesters have in fact been extremely vocal in their disdain for capitalism and have warmly welcomed the socialist left-wing elites (who are all notably member of the 1%). I and I'm fairly certain, most or the other posters in this thread, would love to see an end to the incestuous and disastrous relationship between the major banking institutions and the Treasury. I would also love to see an end to the role the major banking institutions play in crafting the regulations which apparently only grant them immunity from monetary consequences and freedom from competition by smaller institutions. But that isn't what these unwashed little malcontents are seeking.
You need to actually read and listen to the commentary that has been coming out of these morons instead of applying your own narrative.
Perhaps people aren't getting that "fact" because the protesters have in fact been extremely vocal in their disdain for capitalism and have warmly welcomed the socialist left-wing elites (who are all notably member of the 1%). I and I'm fairly certain, most or the other posters in this thread, would love to see an end to the incestuous and disastrous relationship between the major banking institutions and the Treasury. I would also love to see an end to the role the major banking institutions play in crafting the regulations which apparently only grant them immunity from monetary consequences and freedom from competition by smaller institutions. But that isn't what these unwashed little malcontents are seeking.
You need to actually read and listen to the commentary that has been coming out of these morons instead of applying your own narrative.
10-4, and my apologies sir. Unlike yourself, I spend 99% of my time on M4C not playing around in the GD forum and perhaps my skills in this arena are lacking.
That said, my intention of the reply you quoted of mine was directed at the replies in this thread, rather than the protestors. I'm just trying to figure out how capitalism and wall street mean the same thing.
eta...I should have already done this, however I'm officially going to bow outta this thread:)
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 01:44
10-4, and my apologies sir. Unlike yourself, I spend 99% of my time on M4C not playing around in the GD forum and perhaps my skills in this arena are lacking.
That said, my intention of the reply you quoted of mine was directed at the replies in this thread, rather than the protestors. I'm just trying to figure out how capitalism and wall street mean the same thing.
eta...I should have already done this, however I'm officially going to bow outta this thread:)
Your debate skills will get finely tuned sticking around here. :cool:;)
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 11:11
Occupy Wall Street has been day 1 a collabrotive effort from the usual lefty organizations with ties to the DNC, Soros, Obama, SEIU, ect.
Notice the bit about bringing revolutionary change: http://youtu.be/9jOxERtkwN4
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 11:14
Occupy Wall Street has been day 1 a collabrotive effort from the usual lefty organizations with ties to the DNC, Soros, Obama, SEIU, ect.
Notice the bit about bringing revolutionary change: http://youtu.be/9jOxERtkwN4
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 11:20
Chris Hedges: Occupy Wall Street!
October 1, 2011
The Best Among Us
Friday 30 September 2011
by: Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed
There are no excuses left. Either you join the revolt taking place on Wall Street and in the financial districts of other cities across the country or you stand on the wrong side of history. Either you obstruct, in the only form left to us, which is civil disobedience, the plundering by the criminal class on Wall Street and accelerated destruction of the ecosystem that sustains the human species, or become the passive enabler of a monstrous evil. Either you taste, feel and smell the intoxication of freedom and revolt or sink into the miasma of despair and apathy. Either you are a rebel or a slave.
Read the rest here: http://billayers.wordpress.com/
VooDoo6Actual
10-07-11, 13:40
redacted.
ForTehNguyen
10-07-11, 15:06
the homeless guy has the best grip on reality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50rpJ7EQWuI&feature=feedu
From the interviews I have seen and read I'm saying many of them are conflicted...While I have heard several lucid, well thought out greviences, issues etc they still appear to be conflicted on their agendas...IMO, it is not that well organized etc.
I stand by my post where imo why they are really protesting...I'm gratefull for their efforts, I'm less than impressed w/ their intelect.
The predominant ideology of the protestors is Democratic Socialism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
It is hard to create any structure in these competing ideologies. After all, socialism is each according to their needs, while democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what is for dinner...
VooDoo6Actual
10-08-11, 11:59
redacted.
Yes, exactly. I see that as well.
The lack of structure when your hear the interviews is demonstrated as they are conflicted in their mission & purpose etc.
That is because THEY DON'T KNOW WHY THEY ARE THERE!!!
Somebody "organized" them and got them all worked up into a frenzie to go out and protest without having a unified, coherent stance on the subject! That is how 99% of leftist "protests" are!
Mauser KAR98K
10-08-11, 18:16
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/chavez-slams-horrible-repression-u-protests-214847992.html
When Chavez praises these reatards, that should be a sign this is not a good bowl movement for America.
Anyone see the correlation between the Arab revolts of last Winter and Spring to this?
Belmont31R
10-08-11, 18:34
Anyone see the correlation between the Arab revolts of last Winter and Spring to this?
Most of the revolts have communist backing but they try to spin it as people fighting for freedom. Code Pink was at the Arab Spring riots in Egypt.
Transparent enough we know but do most Americans know? Its not something mentioned on the nightly news that much but they have failed to be journalists for a long time, and are complicit in these communists actions.
Belmont31R
10-08-11, 18:47
Protestors went to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum to protest today:
WASHINGTON -- According to dispatches on Twitter, security officials at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum used pepper spray on "Stop the Machine" demonstrators protesting an exhibition on drone aircraft, which is described as a "glorification of extra-judicial executions and the military industrial complex at a public institution" on the group's Facebook page. The group reportedly made their way inside the museum, located on the National Mall near the U.S. Capitol, and dropped a three-story banner that read "No Drones, Stop the Afgan War."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/dc-protests-pepper-spray-museum_n_1001646.html
Mauser KAR98K
10-08-11, 19:54
Most of the revolts have communist backing but they try to spin it as people fighting for freedom. Code Pink was at the Arab Spring riots in Egypt.
Transparent enough we know but do most Americans know? Its not something mentioned on the nightly news that much but they have failed to be journalists for a long time, and are complicit in these communists actions.
I had a liberal Engrish teacher demand what evidence I had that the MSM was left wing biased. I didn't want to get into the argument, but I wish i had told him I didn't because they don't report what needs to be reported.
The news that is out there now against this administration and the left is more damning than what Nixon had going against him.
There is a fourteenth demand also, that is not in all of the lists.............
Demand fourteen: Ban all firearms in America except for loyalty proven police and military. Create a 30 day turn in amnesty period, else face life in prison. Confiscate all gunsmithing, manufacturing, reloading, and shooting equipment. Jail firearms manufactures pending trial at the UN for genocide on minorities. Destroy all collections, clubs, social groups, and museum firearms, even if "de-milled". Put any owner of an assault weapon in re-education camps. We cannot get the capitalists and Christians to do our will until we disarm them. Our weapons are truth and the people, their weapons are guns and racism.
Reeducation camps, really :blink: typical liberal bullshit if we don't like it, we'll make it illegal and you need educated/reeducated.
Belmont31R
10-08-11, 22:19
reeducation camps, really :blink: typical liberal bullshit if we don't like it we'll make it illegal and you need educated/reeducated.
They are the ones who said 25 million Americans would have to be killed to bring about justice...
They are the ones who said 25 million Americans would have to be killed to bring about justice...
thats right, the hard core capitalists....
wild_wild_wes
10-08-11, 23:18
This should tell you all you need to know about these protests: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html
Mauser KAR98K
10-08-11, 23:31
Reeducation camps, really :blink: typical liberal bullshit if we don't like it, we'll make it illegal and you need educated/reeducated.
Source for the quote above your comment please. That is a large charge that needs backing. (unless I missed something through the 8 pages).
Source for the quote above your comment please. That is a large charge that needs backing. (unless I missed something through the 8 pages).
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=78929
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=095_1224888698
Mauser KAR98K
10-08-11, 23:49
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=78929
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=095_1224888698
Those I know about and repeat to people regularly (but, damn, a link finally...thx).
I'm more concerned about that #14 anti-gun point on the list they made.
now, i take a lot of what i read and hear on the interwebz with a few grains of salt, but i find it a bit scarey that Bill Ayers is considered to be a highly regarded "educator" within the liberal circles of primary and secondary school educators who are down with the central planning ideology.
Those I know about and repeat to people regularly (but, damn, a link finally...thx).
I'm more concerned about that #14 anti-gun point on the list they made.
oops, i didnt read the list they made......i do know what the WU said about complete gun confiscation within five years.
*I was reading the WSJ:D
Those I know about and repeat to people regularly (but, damn, a link finally...thx).
I'm more concerned about that #14 anti-gun point on the list they made.
We all know they're anti gun, but that goes to show their true colors WHEN you disagree with them and EXACTLY WHY ONLY the police and government should have them. It's really not about saving lives in high crime areas, or anything else. It's all about centralized power, certainly not freedom.
NoveskeFan
10-09-11, 09:49
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/occupy-wall-street-washington-square_n_1001775.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C102791
As for the NYPD's response to demonstrations so far, Ezzeldin was philosophical. "Police is the police, in Egypt, in the United States. Police is the police. There is no good cops and bad cops, they are all cops," he said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/occupy-wall-street-washington-square_n_1001775.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C102791
As for the NYPD's response to demonstrations so far, Ezzeldin was philosophical. "Police is the police, in Egypt, in the United States. Police is the police. There is no good cops and bad cops, they are all cops," he said.
the lefties always have disdain for the police, but need them to enforce their workers paradise, go figure.
I can only hope that this type of protesting gains traction. http://youtu.be/iD85023px-E
Mauser KAR98K
10-09-11, 12:31
You don't see that at Tea Party rallies.
Wounder why the red head didn't take her's off? She was better looking than the rest.
Ugly people are always the first to get naked. Pretty sure Newton wrote about it in his Principia Mathematica.
VooDoo6Actual
10-09-11, 13:32
redacted.
4x4twenty6
10-10-11, 10:48
Good video from gbtv:
http://youtu.be/fH29ZnDcdAI
Good video from gbtv:
http://youtu.be/fH29ZnDcdAI
thats straight awesome sauce!
You can't make this shit up :lol:
"(Colleges) are taking all our money and then saying, 'Here — go out in the world and get jobs,' when you can't," Roth said.
Helloooo is anybody home, think Mcfly, THINK!!!
Read more: Occupy organizers wrestle with details of merging voices - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_761084.html#ixzz1aPwW2rKB
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_761084.html
BushmasterFanBoy
10-10-11, 17:25
Or, perhaps we should reconsider the American love affair with the free market entirely.
Neither Socialism or Capitalism are workable systems, as history has shown.
What we need to consider is a totally different system yet, a system that does not prosper by stealing from others.
The problem is that ultimately Capitalism is the same as Socialism. Both systems are in place to benefit someone other than the individual. Both systems make someone higher up the food chain than you richer and more powerful.
A free market is the only system that allows for individual freedom. Any other system requires a degree of government intrusion into economic transactions, and thus, into the lives of the citizenry.
The solution here is to push the government out of the market, except in two areas: tax collection (a necessary evil, but should be done in either a head tax or a flat tax manner so as not to be inequitable) and contract enforcement. That's it.
The state needs to provide for the national defense, thus it needs taxes, and it also needs to enforce contracts to protect those without the strength to enforce them themselves. That way everyone can participate in a free market without fear of liars and cheats.
What we have right now is not a free market, its crony capitalism where businesses compete to suck at the bloated govt. tit.
Belmont31R
10-10-11, 17:43
A free market is the only system that allows for individual freedom. Any other system requires a degree of government intrusion into economic transactions, and thus, into the lives of the citizenry.
The solution here is to push the government out of the market, except in two areas: tax collection (a necessary evil, but should be done in either a head tax or a flat tax manner so as not to be inequitable) and contract enforcement. That's it.
The state needs to provide for the national defense, thus it needs taxes, and it also needs to enforce contracts to protect those without the strength to enforce them themselves. That way everyone can participate in a free market without fear of liars and cheats.
What we have right now is not a free market, its crony capitalism where businesses compete to suck at the bloated govt. tit.
Ive said it before but people are most free when we have limited governement, and limited controls in a capitalistic based economy. I don't agree with UNLIMITED capitalism, and I don't agree with the government giving out subsidies, tax breaks, and picking winners & losers.
What we have now is is a weird mix with socialism, oligarchy, and hamered capitalism.
At various points in our past government has decided it can do better than free market, and instituted things like the War on Poverty, and a home for everyone. Also things like the War on Drugs, and said they will snuff out the "free market drug trade" which had resulted in illicit black market drugs the world has never seen before, resulted in things like meth, and drug cartels which make billions a year. Every major industry government has gotten into has resulted in either economic crashes or the creation of underground markets that lead to MORE criminal activity than we had before.
If you want to see how much the War on Poverty has cost us track social programs since the 60's today. We've spent more on poverty in the last 50 years than every war the US has even been in combined, and the poverty rate has actually risen with the trend in the last 5 years of declining income and increased poverty. Yet the left's answer is MORE spending and more programs. If you take away social spending from the budget for the last 50 years the US would actually have tens of trillions of surplus.
BushmasterFanBoy
10-10-11, 18:45
This is exactly the type of Ass Clowns & Ass Hatery that gets things going the wrong direction.
Passive aggressive lewd conduct et al does not win over people very well...
Obviously an ungrateful citizen who does not get the whole picture etc..People like this ruin it with their actions for others whom are good citizens etc.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/Wall-Street-patrol-car.jpg
Humanity never ceases to amaze me in times like these...
as a side note: good "Nike" add....
Their new slogan: "Ah ****, just do it" :haha:
ForTehNguyen
10-10-11, 21:41
stay classy protestors
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/10/occupy-wall-street-protests-enter-4th-week-anonymous-threatens-nyse-website/
...
“The bottom line is people want to express themselves and as long as they obey the laws we’ll allow them to,” Bloomberg said early Monday.
But for some business owners, there’s nothing but outrage. They say the city’s stance on the protest means there is no end in sight to what has rapidly become a living nightmare, reports Brown.
“They want to take showers, want to wash up and use the toilet paper to dry up. It becomes … you gotta have one person assigned just to clean the bathrooms,” said Steve Zamfotis, manager of “Charley’s” restaurant.
Zamfotis, who runs a pizza shop directly across the street from Zuccotti Park, said he has to stand guard at the door — just to keep protesters out.
“They expect everything, everything for free, nothing to pay,” Zamfotis said.
Meanwhile, the protesters are starting to notice folks taking advantage of the demonstration by grabbing some of the free food and clothes that have been made available in Zuccotti Park.
“The tourists take all the food, and the hipsters take all the clothes,” said one demonstrator.
...
4x4twenty6
10-10-11, 22:38
Well it looks like this Occupy bullshit has made it here to Little Rock. They are supposed to "protest" saturday.
Well it looks like this Occupy bullshit has made it here to Little Rock. They are supposed to "protest" saturday.
Its all the way down here in Austin, TX man...trust me the sheeple will do this across the nation till they decide its too damn cold and they need their Starbucks...then it will pick back up in Spring
Well it looks like this Occupy bullshit has made it here to Little Rock. They are supposed to "protest" saturday.
it made it to my alma-mater. at least the kids who care about going to class will get better parking spots!
we had an occupy lake worth with a bunch of '60s losers protesting at a park known for its homeless population.
VooDoo6Actual
10-11-11, 11:40
redacted.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/82987f88.jpg
What are the alternatives?
It's called THE CONSTITUTION & BILL of RIGHTS...
We all know they're anti gun, but that goes to show their true colors WHEN you disagree with them and EXACTLY WHY ONLY the police and government should have them. It's really not about saving lives in high crime areas, or anything else. It's all about centralized power, certainly not LIBERTY.
CORRECT.
Interesting read about who's paying the NYPD's salary. http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/10/financial-giants-put-new-york-city-cops-on-their-payroll/
4x4twenty6
10-11-11, 18:07
There is nothing wrong with police officers being able to earn extra money by working paid details. As long as they are approved through the department and there is no shady business behind there should not be an issue. At my dept we had pretty strict SOP involving details and if you ****ed up you lost detail privilages for some time or indefinitely. Some guys lost their jobs and were arrested.
$15.83 an hour is not a whole lot of money to make so those details really helped out a lot. Most folks made $25-30$ dollars an hour on details with 2$ going to the department.
I think it is a pretty safe assumption that ALL police departments allow some sort of paid detail.
A private company or person pays for the uniformed officer(s) and a percentage goes to the department with the rest going to the officer for working the over time.
I worked details at a Hospital in their Emergency Room, Bars, Home improvement stores and other small businesses like jewelry stores who had a problem with frequent robberies, fights and/or thefts. It could be either cash or check but we always got a 1099 form at the end of the year so we can pay taxes on it.
There was a demand so we supply the goods/services. I dont see what the problem with it is if it is done legally.
There is nothing wrong with police officers being able to earn extra money by working paid details. As long as they are approved through the department and there is no shady business behind there should not be an issue.
I agree with you. Did you read the article or are you just jumping up to defend cops when there's no need? Basically it's talking about a conflict of interest due to being paid by a company to enforce their rules under the guise of being a police officer. The crux of the problem, quoting from the article, is "The taxpayer has paid for the training of the rent-a-cop, his uniform and gun, and will pick up the legal tab for lawsuits stemming from the police personnel following illegal instructions from its corporate master."
There was a demand so we supply the goods/services. I dont see what the problem with it is if it is done legally.
Again, I agree with you. However, I do think companies should hire private security rather than civil servants in their respective work uniforms and with their police powers. If an LEO wants to take a side job by all means go for it but trade in your blues for a security uniform and have a company take the liability not the taxpayer.
From the article...
When the program was first rolled out, one insightful member of the NYPD posted the following on a forum: “… regarding the officer working for, and being paid by, some of the richest people and organizations in the City, if not the world, enforcing the mandates of the private employer, and in effect, allowing the officer to become the Praetorian Guard of the elite of the City. And now corruption is no longer a problem. Who are they kidding?”
They are in effect buying their own private police force and under color of law dictating their employer's orders to the public. A prime example is the fact that they think they can somehow block off parts of the city? Guess who owns the city?
On September 8, 2004, Robert Britz, then President and Co-Chief Operating Officer of the New York Stock Exchange, testified as follows to the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services:
“…we have implemented new hiring standards requiring former law enforcement or military backgrounds for the security staff…We have established a 24-hour NYPD Paid Detail monitoring the perimeter of the data centers…We have implemented traffic control and vehicle screening at the checkpoints. We have installed fixed protective planters and movable vehicle barriers.”
Who the **** is this guy? The city is owned by the taxpayers and residents not the NYSE.
Just six months before NYSE executive Britz’ testimony to a congressional committee, his organization was being sued in the Supreme Court of New York County for illegally taking over public streets with no authority to do so. This action had crippled the business of a parking garage, Wall Street Garage Parking Corp., the plaintiff in the case. Judge Walter Tolub said in his opinion that
“…a private entity, the New York Stock Exchange, has assumed responsibility for the patrol and maintenance of truck blockades located at seven intersections surrounding the NYSE…no formal authority appears to have been given to the NYSE to maintain these blockades and/or conduct security searches at these checkpoints…the closure of these intersections by the NYSE is tantamount to a public nuisance…The NYSE has yet to provide this court with any evidence of an agreement giving them the authority to maintain the security perimeter and/or conduct the searches that their private security force conducts daily. As such, the NYSE’s actions are unlawful and may be enjoined as they violate plaintiff’s civil rights as a private citizen.”
We're not talking about working the local HS football game, a rock concert, etc. to make a few extra dollars. The Paid Detail received almost $12 million dollars last year according to the article, that ain't chump change and it sure as hell buys a lot of favors.
4x4twenty6
10-11-11, 19:09
Irish i am definitely not defending those actions of the NYPD. It also referenced NOPD and I definitely am not defending them either.
I just wanted to put the info about the detail system out there because a lot of people dont quite understand the detail system and how it works. That is all. I apologize if it seemed like i was playing the sympathy card for the PoPo's. :jester:
A lot of the time the private security folks dont have arrest powers or the legal knowledge to properly handle situations. If a private security guard stops a crime they then have to pull an officer off of the road to handle the incident rather than having one on scene working a detail to handle it. It is a solution to problems like man power shortage. A lot of departments are under staffed these days.
The training for private security is also horrible even compared to some police standards. Fact of the matter is, armed security is a joke.
Police officers also are not being paid by the tax payer on the details and the tax payer is not liable for anything while an officer is working an off duty paid detail. Their is all kinds of legal stuff that the private business is liable for when they employ an off duty officer to work in a law enforcement capacity. The tax payer is not responsible for paying for the training of the "rent-a-cop" just to work private details. They pay them for their service while on duty. Keep in mind he business that hires the officer also pays taxes and they are their to protect the business and its patrons.
Like I said in the beginning i am not condoning their behavior and I appologize if it came off that way. That is an incredible amount of money. I dont know how they have been getting away with it for this long but it seems like it is all coming to a head.
Just like in NOPD where supervisors where owning LLC's that hired officers to work paid details. That seems like a huge conflict of interest. I could not believe they were doing that.
My department had an office that specifically handled all details and the tax forms and all that other legal stuff. There was not one person owning an LLC that ran it on their own. There would be an officer who was assigned to the detail that would take care of scheduling and they were responsible for making sure there was someone there at all times. If someone could not make it in, the guy who does scheduling is responsible for showing up.
I dont doubt there is a conflict of interest up there between NYPD and NYSE.
VooDoo6Actual
10-11-11, 19:11
redacted.
Irish i am definitely not defending those actions of the NYPD. It also referenced NOPD and I definitely am not defending them either.
I just wanted to put the info about the detail system out there because a lot of people dont quite understand the detail system and how it works. That is all. I apologize if it seemed like i was playing the sympathy card for the PoPo's. :jester:
Logging off now but wanted to say I wasn't trying to come off as a dick either. More often than not we agree and even on the rare occasion we don't I know we're still on the same side. Have a great night!
4x4twenty6
10-11-11, 19:46
Irish, you absolutely did not come off as a dick and i cant recall anything i dont agree with you on. I dont take anything we talk about on here personally.
jklaughrey
10-11-11, 20:44
Looks like this should have focused more on undergrad studies and less on her useless liberal arts degree.
9977
P.S.
I would go with selling drugs. Selling your body with your "look" won't generate much interest, let alone income potential.:D
Found this on another forum.....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301073_260133967362989_100000991622356_740967_383384140_n.jpg
VooDoo6Actual
10-12-11, 12:36
redacted.
Courtesey of M4C member ArRazorback:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/The1.jpg
Provoking and antagonizing people of the protesters ilk is not recommended in my book. When crowds of pissed off people are at your front doorstep and know where you live, also for future retaliation, I don't think I'd be throwing the ol' 1% sign in their face lest the "99%" starting throwing cocktails, the molotov sort.
EDIT: The picture appears to show a fraternity house possibly due to the Greek lettering. So it's possibly a bunch of little rich shitheads begging for a fight, actually just to provoke, from a bunch of pissed off wingnuts. Either way not a great idea in my book.
jklaughrey
10-12-11, 13:03
9987
Does this work...
Does this work...
This is probably more in line with what the they were thinking...
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9033/witchburning.jpg
BushmasterFanBoy
10-12-11, 13:50
Provoking and antagonizing people of the protesters ilk is not recommended in my book. When crowds of pissed off people are at your front doorstep and know where you live, also for future retaliation, I don't think I'd be throwing the ol' 1% sign in their face lest the "99%" starting throwing cocktails, the molotov sort.
EDIT: The picture appears to show a fraternity house possibly due to the Greek lettering. So it's possibly a bunch of little rich shitheads begging for a fight, actually just to provoke, from a bunch of pissed off wingnuts. Either way not a great idea in my book.
Look at it this way, no matter what happens, someone who deserves an asskicking is going to get it!
Look at it this way, no matter what happens, someone who deserves an asskicking is going to get it!
What a great perspective! :lol:
Belmont31R
10-12-11, 15:02
Pretty interesting stuff..... http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
Pretty interesting stuff..... http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
Very interesting. Thanks!
Belmont31R
10-12-11, 15:34
Yep. Just part of the puzzle of why America will never be the same for people like our parents and grand parents had it.
I noticed the chart for Excess Reserves of Depository Institutions (EXCRESNS). Did some basic research on it, and basically banks can deposit and withdraw money as they see fit. While the money is deposited they are getting interest on the money paid for by tax payers to the tune of billions of dollars.
Here is the Wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_reserves
So the banks have over a trillion dollars sitting in the government coffers while we get to pay them interest on it.
Current wages are four times that of post WWII average wages, adjusted for inflation. A person on minimum wage getting 40 hours a week will earn 50% more a year than our grandparents, not counting any welfare a person at this income level is likely to receive. To paraphrase Bush's famous economic gaffe, the pie really did get higher.
While the government has made some things much more expensive, like healthcare and some aspects of housing, most things cost about the same, or usually much cheaper than goods made in the 1940's and 1950's. Personal computers used to cost thousands, now you can get a cell phone for a couple hundred bucks that does more than a 1980's Mac ever did.
Additionally our grandparents were often not able to have two steady income streams... although back then the government hadn't banned traditional marriage, so households were much more stable. Court ordered indentured servitude is no fun for the ex-wife, ex-husband or creditors.
We don't have a rich-person problem, we have a government problem at the federal level which will likely require states to grow a backbone in order for it to be solved. There is a lopsided tax burden with some people paying 0% and others forking over 35%. If the government stopped taxing my business so much I'd hire more people and bump up pay and benefits.
Saw a good political cartoon a few weeks ago...
"The bad news is that the Obama wants to raise the top marginal rate, but the good news is that the economy is so bad that we aren't in the top bracket anymore."
JFK was right, the even tide raised all ships. The only places the tide isn't so even is everything the government touches... and they pay themselves 10x 1950's wages, from your wages.
Belmont31R
10-12-11, 17:55
The things graphs don't always tell, though is the big picture, and things like the cost of having a job. My first job out of the Army I had to have a PC w/ printer at home, a cell phone, and I didn't get reimbursed for any of it unless you count a higher wage than a similar job would maybe have yielded 50 years ago. God help you today if your employer cannot call your cell phone and bug you every hour of the day.
I wish I could find it again but I read a really good article about stuff like this a couple years ago, and how basically to have the same disposable income as people did 50 years ago a family has to have dual incomes. What some charts don't explain, like the top tax rate, is that no one ever paid close to 90% in taxes. There were all kinds of loop holes, and the technology back then relied much more on trust than today where everything is recorded and digital. Back then everything was done by hand, cash, ect. Look how many people stored cash in matresses, walls, and floor boards.
Also a lot of tax figures we see do not take into account local/state taxes which have gone up a lot. Every year I have lived here our property taxes go up, and the trend with sales taxes has gone up, too, in states that have them. Here we do not have an income tax but our property tax has gone up every year. If you look at things like nickle and dime taxes tacked onto things like cell phone bills, cable bills, water bills, ect...they have all gone up or simply didn't exist 50 years ago.
Look at other things like college tuition which has exploded in the last 20 years, and 10 years especially. Employers also expect more education than they used to. My dad has worked for the same company since he quit college, and is now a superintendent on a major contract in Iraq. Today they might hire you with a BS but would easily pick a masters instead. Ive seen job listings REQUIRING a 4 year degree to make 13/hr in sales at a cell phone store. So just to get a decent job requires a ton more personal investment and education than it ever did before.
Looking at some of the charts our wonderful government departments put out disposable income as a percent of total income has actually averaged lower in the last 20 years than in the 20 years following the end of WW2, and that is even with things like a sharp rise in the number of dual incomes.
So looking at tax rates alone does not tell the entire story, and if you look at other figures you have to be better educated (more $$$ on your end), and have both parents working to have less disposable income than people did 50 years ago.
I do believe the government plays a big role in this with lots of taxes that did not exist 50 years ago, more regulatory burden, higher rates of enforcement, and a plethora of other things like subsidizing college tuition to the point tuition has risen sharply. Looking at a census data chart in 1950 only 6% of adults had a college degree. Today the number is almost 30%.
ForTehNguyen
10-13-11, 16:23
How to teach these sheltered self entitled never worked a real day in their lives hippies something using only 3.5 days a year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAOrT0OcHh0&feature=feedu
Another factoid not discussed in the poverty statistics is that the majority of Americans move through the income levels during a lifetime. It is relatively uncommon for someone to be locked into poverty for multiple decades. We tend to have the lowest incomes during our youth as we develop a skill set that eventually affords a better lifestyle. The three quick ways to minimize the risk of prolonged poverty is to:
1) Graduate from high school as only 20% of graduates live below the poverty line; only 4% of college graduates are unemployed.
2) Use effective birthcontrol or obstain from sex until you are married. Once married, stay that way since divorce is very expensive.
3) Do not abuse drugs or alcohol. 10% of Americans have a serious addiction, and half of them will spend at least 6 months below the poverty level.
Belmont31R
10-14-11, 08:35
Coast Guard member spat on, objects thrown at her, and verbally harassed by protesters in Boston: http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/occupy-boston-protesters-spit-on-coast-guard-member-20111013
ForTehNguyen
10-14-11, 12:16
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312660_10150323868848935_36496893934_7991663_931317460_n.jpg
ForTehNguyen
10-14-11, 12:17
Occupy Protests in LA and DC: Socialists, Crazies and Hate-Mongers - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CKRoKbRGW8&feature=feedu)
Looks like the Italians are a little more passionate about their "peaceful protesting". http://youtu.be/0aMD4QIvGUE
dookie1481
10-17-11, 03:38
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/FalseParadigm.jpg
Well, that's one that has a clue...
Well, that's one that has a clue...
Yeah, of course the flip side of that sign probably extols the virtues of Communism.
Courtesy of Occupy Portland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2P3_XXmIjs
Moose-Knuckle
10-18-11, 12:32
So who doesn't take these protestors seriously. . .:confused:
Occupy Wall Street: "I can't afford a shirt". . .topless female protestors.
(must login to an account on YT for age verification)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBy9YDwqzwg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAHiq-Lxs30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1gewV-4-RI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wImCFWxi_s&feature=related
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMjm4LxFa1c&feature=player_embedded
ForTehNguyen
10-18-11, 22:20
i swear to god these people are some of the dumbest most hypocritical people I've ever seen.
so these hippies are complaining about the rich mean 1% but thieves are making off with very expensive electronics, cameras, etc that are brought to the protests. $5500 Mac wtf? Yet they claim they are so poor, need help, and barely scraping by? Well maybe they now know what redistribution feels like.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK
Thieves preying on fellow protesters
By LARRY CELONA, LAURA ITALIANO REBECCA HARSHBARGER, FRANK ROSARIO and JAMIE SCHRAM
Last Updated: 9:35 AM, October 18, 2011
Posted: 2:43 AM, October 18, 2011
It’s a den of thieves!
Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.
“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.
“I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen, so the first thing I had to do was . . . get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!”
Crafty cat burglars sneaked into the makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park overnight and swiped as much as $2,500 in donated greenbacks from right under the noses of volunteers who’d fallen asleep after a long day whipping up meals for the hundreds of hungry protesters, the volunteers said.
“The worst thing is there’s people sleeping in the kitchen when they come, and they don’t even know about it! There are some really smart and sneaky thieves here,” Terrie said.
“I had umbrellas stolen, a fold-up bed I brought because my back is bad -- they took that, too!”
Security volunteer Harry Wyman, 22, of Brooklyn was furious about the thievery -- and vowed to get tough with the predatory perps.
“I’m not getting paid, but I’m not gonna stand for it. Why people got to come here and do stupid stuff? All it does is make people not wanna come here anymore,” Wyman fumed.
At one point yesterday, Wyman and other volunteers briefly scuffled with a man who was standing near a park entrance with a pail calling out: “Donations! Donations!” -- and pocketing the cash people tossed in the bucket.
Meanwhile, the Rev. Jesse Jackson was at Zuccotti late last night as he and about 50 protesters formed a human chain in front of a medical tent after police officers came over to ask about the tent, cops and protesters said.
“Jesse dropped in like a ninja,” said Stephanie Perricone, 21. “He came out of nowhere and helped us all out.”
The officers were asking about the size of the tent when the crowd of demonstrators -- including Jackson -- stood en masse in front of it.
The cops said didn’t ask for it to be taken down and the issue was quickly resolved.
i swear to god these people are some of the dumbest most hypocritical people I've ever seen.
so these hippies are complaining about the rich mean 1% but thieves are making off with very expensive electronics, cameras, etc that are brought to the protests. $5500 Mac wtf? Yet they claim they are so poor, need help, and barely scraping by? Well maybe they now know what redistribution feels like.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK
You can't make this shit up :lol:
ForTehNguyen
10-19-11, 21:52
STEVE WYNN Goes On Big Rant About Occupy Wall Street, Obama, Deficits, And Anger At The Government
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-wynn-goes-on-big-rant-about-occupy-wall-street-obama-deficits-and-anger-at-the-government-2011-10#ixzz1bHq4hXMV
i swear to god these people are some of the dumbest most hypocritical people I've ever seen.
so these hippies are complaining about the rich mean 1% but thieves are making off with very expensive electronics, cameras, etc that are brought to the protests. $5500 Mac wtf? Yet they claim they are so poor, need help, and barely scraping by? Well maybe they now know what redistribution feels like.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK
A bunch of entitled, spoiled little leftist malcontents who are demanding free shit and forgiveness of their debts at the expense of others' pocketbooks have thieves in their ranks, color me shocked and amazed!!!!
QuietShootr
10-20-11, 08:30
Provoking and antagonizing people of the protesters ilk is not recommended in my book. When crowds of pissed off people are at your front doorstep and know where you live, also for future retaliation, I don't think I'd be throwing the ol' 1% sign in their face lest the "99%" starting throwing cocktails, the molotov sort.
EDIT: The picture appears to show a fraternity house possibly due to the Greek lettering. So it's possibly a bunch of little rich shitheads begging for a fight, actually just to provoke, from a bunch of pissed off wingnuts. Either way not a great idea in my book.
Maybe you don't know what's in that house. The one I lived in was about 25% veterans and I know probably half of us had weapons in our rooms and CCWs on us, and that was BEFORE the war, in the 90s. I would be willing to bet there is a combat veteran or two in that house who would love to clear the house's front lawn of patchouli-stinking hippies.
ForTehNguyen
10-21-11, 12:36
Steve Jobs talking like a conservative and true capitalist, what do these OWS hippies think of him now, since they are already giving him a free pass for being a ultra rich CEO:
Steve Jobs biography: Did Apple CEO warn Obama? - Tim Mak - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66537.html)
Steve Jobs biography: Did Apple CEO warn Obama?
Steve Jobs told President Barack Obama he was “headed for a one-term presidency,” citing the U.S.’s competitive disadvantages with China and a “crippled” education system, a new biography of the former Apple CEO indicates.
“You’re headed for a one-term presidency,” Jobs told Obama in a meeting last year where he asserted that the White House needed to be more friendly toward business, according to the Huffington Post, which obtained a copy of Walter Isaacson’s forthcoming book, “Steve Jobs.”
Jobs also told Obama that “regulations and unnecessary costs” put the United States at a competitive disadvantage with China, where companies can build factories more cheaply.
The recently deceased Jobs also told Obama that the education system was “crippled by union work rules,” according to Isaacson. Jobs proposed principals be able to hire and fire teachers based on merit, and to extend the length of both the school day and academic year.
Jobs also suggested that Obama meet with several other CEOs who could talk about the needs of innovative firms, but in a characteristic huff, Jobs declared his intention to skip the event when the White House added additional names to the list.
Jobs also objected to the menu of that meeting, telling a venture capitalist that shrimp, cod and lentil salad was “far too fancy” and objecting to a chocolate truffle dessert. The White House overruled him, according to the book, citing the president’s fondness for cream pie.
According to the Huffington Post copy of Isaacson’s book, Jobs was reluctant to take a meeting with Obama without a personal invitation from the president. A five-day standoff ensued due to his stubborn insistence on this point, despite his wife’s exhortation that Obama “was really psyched to meet with you.” They eventually met at the Westin hotel at the San Francisco airport.
Jobs talked with Obama on the phone several times after that, according to Isaacson, and later offered to help with the creation of political ads for Obama’s 2012 campaign.
The 3 Smartest Things I Heard at Occupy Wall Street | The Motley Fool
http://m.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/08/the-3-smartest-things-i-heard-at-occupy-wall-stree?source=essoutrf0000001
(sorry for the mobile edition)
montanadave
10-22-11, 14:04
The 3 Smartest Things I Heard at Occupy Wall Street | The Motley Fool
http://m.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/08/the-3-smartest-things-i-heard-at-occupy-wall-stree?source=essoutrf0000001
(sorry for the mobile edition)
All good points.
God forbid the Occupy Wall Street crowd, who want to blame everything on the big banks, and the Tea Party folk, who want to blame everything on the federal government, ever stop screaming shit at one another and figure out that it's the collusion between Wall Street and the federal government that is killing this nation.
Both groups are on the right track. But they're only seeing half of the big picture.
Belmont31R
10-22-11, 14:11
I went to some of the very first Tea Party rallies and lots of people were pissed at the banks for getting billions of dollars. Should have let them fail was what was said.
The difference is the OWS crowd wants to take money from them for their communist visions while TP people want the government out of the markets, and let the chips fall where they may in a free market economy.
montanadave
10-22-11, 14:24
I went to some of the very first Tea Party rallies and lots of people were pissed at the banks for getting billions of dollars. Should have let them fail was what was said.
The difference is the OWS crowd wants to take money from them for their communist visions while TP people want the government out of the markets, and let the chips fall where they may in a free market economy.
There's no such thing as a "free market economy" when the game is rigged.
And, believe me, it's rigged. Big time.
Belmont31R
10-22-11, 14:29
There's no such thing as a "free market economy" when the game is rigged.
And, believe me, it's rigged. Big time.
Thats why we were out protesting. The bail outs were a central theme to the ones I went to.
There's no such thing as a "free market economy" when the game is rigged.
And, believe me, it's rigged. Big time.
No taxes to the federal government, no money for enforcing the US Code, no more rigging. Simple as that. Run the military off of import taxes, kick the rest back to the states, then money will walk and bullshit will talk.
ForTehNguyen
10-22-11, 16:16
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315806_2549725143408_1262229679_33018164_523586113_n.jpg
montanadave
10-22-11, 16:27
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315806_2549725143408_1262229679_33018164_523586113_n.jpg
Exactly! :thank_you2:
ForTehNguyen
10-23-11, 12:33
check out how completely clueless these protestors are:
Occupy Wall Street Los Angeles Protesters Sign Petition to Establish a Central Bank and Fiat Money (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybe0w_Gp9e8&feature=feedu)
basically this guy wanted to test their knowledge so he made a petition to end capitalism with 4 demands: currency backed by govt not gold, govt appointed central bank, national income tax, and govt aid for housing.
VooDoo6Actual
10-25-11, 14:23
redacted.
I went to some of the very first Tea Party rallies and lots of people were pissed at the banks for getting billions of dollars. Should have let them fail was what was said.
The difference is the OWS crowd wants to take money from them for their communist visions while TP people want the government out of the markets, and let the chips fall where they may in a free market economy.
Yep, protesting most of the same things except our solutions are polar opposites.
Exactly! :thank_you2:
And the OWS solution is, what? Since one can't get a straight answer out of the loony toon menagerie of the left that are the OWS protests, apparently the solution is drugs, thievery, and drum circles.
To the left, as evidenced by everything they've ever done in terms of banking regulation, the solution is to increase the incestuousness of the relationship between banks and government.
The Tea Party has it right, get government the **** out of business. Problem solved.
Mauser KAR98K
10-26-11, 11:40
Looks like the Democratic Party is about to eat their words. Turned violent in Oakland.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/full-blown-riots-erupt-as-occupy-oakland-gets-out-of-control-overnight/
And the Euro keeps falling.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 12:10
Exactly! :thank_you2:
Umm...no...:confused:
Supporting free market capitalism isn't the same thing as supporting big business crony capitalism which we have now where certain companies get special tax breaks, their losses are made a public burden but profits are not, the government picks winners and losers, and votes are bought with campaign contributions and tax dollars.
Ive never been to a Tea Party rally where chrony capitalism was supported. In fact the theme of them was to let the banks fail.
montanadave
10-26-11, 12:34
Umm...no...:confused:
Supporting free market capitalism isn't the same thing as supporting big business crony capitalism which we have now where certain companies get special tax breaks, their losses are made a public burden but profits are not, the government picks winners and losers, and votes are bought with campaign contributions and tax dollars.
Ive never been to a Tea Party rally where chrony capitalism was supported. In fact the theme of them was to let the banks fail.
I was simply supporting the message graphically represented by the cartoon (i.e. the incestuous relationship which currently exists between the government and the banking industry).
That relationship is the exemplar of the "crony capitalism" to which you refer and which is antithetical to a idealized free market. I'm a little lost as to where the disagreement is.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 13:25
I was simply supporting the message graphically represented by the cartoon (i.e. the incestuous relationship which currently exists between the government and the banking industry).
That relationship is the exemplar of the "crony capitalism" to which you refer and which is antithetical to a idealized free market. I'm a little lost as to where the disagreement is.
No the cartoon is stupid because because its saying the TP people are only seeing one side of the issue which you also stated above:
the Tea Party folk, who want to blame everything on the federal government, ever stop screaming shit at one another and figure out that it's the collusion between Wall Street and the federal government that is killing this nation.
Both groups are on the right track. But they're only seeing half of the big picture.
As Ive said three times now every TP rally I went to had the attitude of letting the big banks fail if they can't survive without making their losses a public burden. People were very against the bailout and takeover of GM.
The whole notion that TP people are not seeing the big picture is ludicrous, and a claim you've supported with posts and saying "Exactly!" to a cartoon which is saying the same thing.
Like Ill say, again, TP people supporting free market capitalism is not TP people supporting crony capitalism, and that was evidenced by what was said at the rallies I went to. If you want to keep supporting the notion that TP people are solely on the blame the government track then so be it. You are not correct, though. The whole reason the TP was started in response to TARP and Stimulus. TARP was crony capitalism at its finest. 15APR2009 was the first one I went to at the Alamo, and Ive been to others as well.
montanadave
10-26-11, 14:16
No the cartoon is stupid because because its saying the TP people are only seeing one side of the issue which you also stated above:
As Ive said three times now every TP rally I went to had the attitude of letting the big banks fail if they can't survive without making their losses a public burden. People were very against the bailout and takeover of GM.
The whole notion that TP people are not seeing the big picture is ludicrous, and a claim you've supported with posts and saying "Exactly!" to a cartoon which is saying the same thing.
Like Ill say, again, TP people supporting free market capitalism is not TP people supporting crony capitalism, and that was evidenced by what was said at the rallies I went to. If you want to keep supporting the notion that TP people are solely on the blame the government track then so be it. You are not correct, though. The whole reason the TP was started in response to TARP and Stimulus. TARP was crony capitalism at its finest. 15APR2009 was the first one I went to at the Alamo, and Ive been to others as well.
I get that part of the Tea Party agenda. What I'd like to hear is a little more anger and frustration directed at American corporations that spend billions of dollars annually to game the system by lobbying Congress and enriching the campaign coffers of our elected officials.
It seems like most of their populist ire is directed at the misdeeds of the government without demonstrating a commensurate level of outrage at those who manipulate the system and enrich themselves at the public trough.
If that sentiment is in there, it is being lost in the noise.
Looking at websites for FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, you don't see much discussion of the malevolent role that American business and industry has played in undermining the U.S. economy. Anyone who seriously believes that less regulation would have prevented the economic meltdown in 2008 has lost their mind.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 14:44
I get that part of the Tea Party agenda. What I'd like to hear is a little more anger and frustration directed at American corporations that spend billions of dollars annually to game the system by lobbying Congress and enriching the campaign coffers of our elected officials.
It seems like most of their populist ire is directed at the misdeeds of the government without demonstrating a commensurate level of outrage at those who manipulate the system and enrich themselves at the public trough.
If that sentiment is in there, it is being lost in the noise.
Looking at websites for FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, you don't see much discussion of the malevolent role that American business and industry has played in undermining the U.S. economy. Anyone who seriously believes that less regulation would have prevented the economic meltdown in 2008 has lost their mind.
So because the politicians are bought off its not the politicians fault but the business'?
I blame the politicians because they are the ones held in public trust and have sworn in oaths of office. Businesses have no such obligation or trust to answer to in a public sense.
If these businesses were allowed to fail, and they should have....then we would have quite a bit less cronyism going on. If a business wants to game the system, and take risks then when they fail they should be swept out the back and someone better will come along. Life will go on. Others would learn from their mistakes.
Regulation actually had a lot to do with the crash, and involves forcing banks to lend money to low income areas. The DOJ is still going around suing banks for not lending money to people. So we have this big government entity telling a company who to lend money to. And then they were turned into investments which was another act of government with Glass-Steagal being removed. So not only did the government remove the legal barriers against it then they then told banks who to lend to. They also created a warehouse to house all the bad lending that went on.
And with that said I don't like big business that much, and think they have done a lot to harm the American way of life. I try to shop local small businesses and not big box stores. I haven't stepped into a Wal-Mart but maybe a couple times in the last two years. We have bought furniture and stuff locally made by craftsmen on their own. Buy local produce and beef, ect.
Our economy is a mix between consumers , businesses, and government. They all have a part in it, and all three failed here to some extent. But blaming the banks is like legalizing prostitution, providing the beds, telling someone they have to be a prostitute and then complaining about prostitutes walking down the street who have AIDS.
I get that part of the Tea Party agenda. What I'd like to hear is a little more anger and frustration directed at American corporations that spend billions of dollars annually to game the system by lobbying Congress and enriching the campaign coffers of our elected officials.
It seems like most of their populist ire is directed at the misdeeds of the government without demonstrating a commensurate level of outrage at those who manipulate the system and enrich themselves at the public trough.
If that sentiment is in there, it is being lost in the noise.
Looking at websites for FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, you don't see much discussion of the malevolent role that American business and industry has played in undermining the U.S. economy. Anyone who seriously believes that less regulation would have prevented the economic meltdown in 2008 has lost their mind.
ask yourself this then
if the gov did not force the issue of giving out loans to people that could not afford them would the housing crisis be so bad ? if it was not for Freddy and Fanny would we be in this mess ?
you say it so easy less regulation yet the gov sticking its paws in often is what messes things up instead try to show or answer the opposite ? thats what I try to do
also why blame the business for wanting to keep its profits etc.. and lobby etc..
again you would do the same I bet its the gov that needs fixing and all lobbying should be gone
people are willing to buy products from companies that do this ?
do you buy GE products ? then you are part of the problem
also with GE lets see really look at what emelt or however you spell his name has done he is the jobs czar now and yet he puts jobs over seas destroys the wealth of his company etc.. who hired him ? the gov did so again you are blaming the employee instead of the employer as a analogy
the gov needs fixing cause if you can fix it so no bailouts no helping hands no subsidizing anything anyone companies will make it or they wont !
when the Gov told Colorado apple farmers you cant sell your apples and we will pay you cause we want the wash crop this year ?????
OK thats a small example of the gov doing bad yet some will blame the apple farmers or who ever else
the current OWS crowd like the cartoon is the same way !
are banks crooked ? yes some but not all I chose a small credit union instead nobody forced any loans on anyone now instead the gov is going to reward people for getting in over their head and bail them out ! people like me are pissed off big time about this wife and I were responsible and took a house for 1/4 what we were allowed since we were thinking NO way if something happens could I keep those payments up
we joke we should have taken it then cried and got a bailout and been living in a million + home :) but again I would never do that cause its wrong
to me a big problem is people dont care anymore its a give me I want it attitude
so when those companies spend money to game the system if the system was not gameable they would not be able to
and I choose not to buy their product if everyone did that they would learn
till we fix the system its going to happen
to me I think your argument would be like blaming guns for crime that some lefties do ? its a silly point and your blame needs to go to the criminals and the system that does not hold them to the fire !
It seems like most of their populist ire is directed at the misdeeds of the government without demonstrating a commensurate level of outrage at those who manipulate the system and enrich themselves at the public trough.
Do you write your Congressman?
Do you take all the deductions the law allows on your taxes?
You must be gaming the system.
As long as you allow government interference, you must also allow people to lobby.
Get rid of the government regulation, mandates, etc AND get rid of the government backstop -- let companies fail.
THEN you will see positive changes in the system. Until then, you won't.
CarlosDJackal
10-26-11, 15:21
...Anyone who seriously believes that less regulation would have prevented the economic meltdown in 2008 has lost their mind.
And anyone who thinks that the increased regulations that required banks to approve loans for people who obviously did not have the income to be able to afford the loan never had one to begin with.
When banks are required by law to approve a $400k loan for a $350k house despite the fact that their declared annual income is just $30k (yes, this happened to a friend of mine when he was selling his house); thinking that this did not have an impact on the number of foreclosures and the huge losses that the banks sustained because of it is just being a dumboKrat.
Don't get me wrong, there are things that banks could have taken to mitigate their losses (IE: actually selling a house to someone who can afford it instead of letting the house sit empty - yes this happened to a co-worker). I don't understand how it could be "discrimination" when someone is disapproved for a loan because they obviously did not have the income level to sustain such a loan?
But the core cause is still the laws that were enacted by Slick Willy to "prevent discrimination based on income".
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 18:07
Why work up a sweat when you can toss CS grenades? :p
http://youtu.be/OZLyUK0t0vQ
montanadave
10-27-11, 07:28
Why work up a sweat when you can toss CS grenades? :p
http://youtu.be/OZLyUK0t0vQ
Yeah, that's some funny shit. :rolleyes:
According to news reports, the guy laying on the ground injured was an Iraqi war vet named Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old ex-Marine who did two tours in Iraq between 2006 and 2010. Olsen had suffered a skull fracture after being struck by a projectile (an investigation is underway to determine whether he was struck by a projectile fired by police or something thrown by the protesters themselves) and is currently hospitalized in critical condition. Fellow protesters were attempting to provide aid and evacuate him from the street when the Oakland police tossed a tear gas grenade at Olsen as he lay in the street.
Some folks got a strange sense of humor.
Reagans Rascals
10-27-11, 07:34
Yeah, that's some funny shit. :rolleyes:
According to news reports, the guy laying on the ground injured was an Iraqi war vet named Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old ex-Marine who did two tours in Iraq between 2006 and 2010. Olsen had suffered a skull fracture after being struck by a projectile (an investigation is underway to determine whether he was struck by a projectile fired by police or something thrown by the protesters themselves) and is currently hospitalized in critical condition. Fellow protesters were attempting to provide aid and evacuate him from the street when the Oakland police tossed a tear gas grenade at Olsen as he lay in the street.
Some folks got a strange sense of humor.
....when you're in you're a guest, when you're out you're a pest...
Some folks got a strange sense of humor.
Here's video of the incident and the unresponsive Scott Olsen, former Marine and member of Veterans for Peace, being carried away. http://youtu.be/cMUgPTCgwcQ
Here's a much better video highlighting the cop throwing the grenade into a crowd of people trying to help someone on the ground. http://youtu.be/QqNOPZLw03Q I'll refrain from saying what I think should happen to that cop, I sure hope karma's working though.
The video Hop posted earlier, not sure if in this thread, was right on target. Our nation's "leaders" jump and shout when this shit happens in foreign countries and we're supposed to go fight wars over it yet when it happens in our backyard it's dismissed as nothing.
Belmont31R
10-27-11, 10:27
Yeah, that's some funny shit. :rolleyes:
According to news reports, the guy laying on the ground injured was an Iraqi war vet named Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old ex-Marine who did two tours in Iraq between 2006 and 2010. Olsen had suffered a skull fracture after being struck by a projectile (an investigation is underway to determine whether he was struck by a projectile fired by police or something thrown by the protesters themselves) and is currently hospitalized in critical condition. Fellow protesters were attempting to provide aid and evacuate him from the street when the Oakland police tossed a tear gas grenade at Olsen as he lay in the street.
Some folks got a strange sense of humor.
His veteran status has nothing to do with what happened, and they were violating the order to leave. They had been creating a health hazard shitting and pissing all over the place. They were not allowing EMS into the area to take care of other people.
Right to gather or protest does not include shitting in public areas creating a health hazard nor does it include blocking emergency responders from attending to others. Prior to him getting hurt people were throwing rocks and bottles at the police which is also not included in your rights. Its very well possible he was hit by an object thrown by his own crew since he was close to the police line.
So I don't have much sympathy for people who are violating an order to vacate the area and given ample time to leave, were shitting in a public area, throwing rocks and bottles at the police, and still did not leave after the CS started. In other videos they had the police telling them which street they could go down to leave.
If commies want to protest that is their right but they need to do it in a lawful manner just like I have done numerous times. Ive never thrown an object at a police officer, shit in a public park, and never blocked EMS from getting to someone.
And this is the mentality of these dipshits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA
Dumb broad thinks police shouldn't use force to respond to people throwing rocks and bottles at them because they're in riot gear. :rolleyes:
Belmont31R
10-27-11, 10:35
I guess they were also throwing human waste and firecrackers at the police, too....
Police say they were defending themselves from protesters who were allegedly throwing rocks, bottles, and human waste on the officers. Several members of Occupy Oakland and their supporters posted YouTube videos purportedly showing police using flash grenades and tear gas against people trying to help an injured person. Police have denied using the "flash-bang" devices and say the blasts heard in the area came from demonstrators throwing firecrackers at officers.
http://www.kron4.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=2184
I guess they were also throwing human waste and firecrackers at the police, too....
You don't think cops lie to cover their asses? LOL!!! What you quoted says police deny using flashbangs and you can see them throwing them in the videos I posted above in slow motion. Cops lie all the time to justify their actions and this is just another example of it.
I'm not for the protestors or the cops but the fact remains that lobbing grenades into a small group of people trying to help an injured person is bullshit and he should be in jail himself.
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