View Full Version : DOJ thinking about shutting down ATF
30 cal slut
10-03-11, 06:50
Hmm.
http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf
Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. ATF agents wouldn’t be reassigned to other positions, just simply let go. Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.
Should have been done long ago
I'd like to see that same report in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, or NY Times before I get my hopes up.
Not holding my breath.
I wonder then how things like SBR and stuff would be regulated if they would use that as a time to really crack down on things ? and change the laws drastically the way they want them to be ?
I am all for good bye ATF and let honest citizens have what they want but can see them USING this for something else ?
I wonder then how things like SBR and stuff would be regulated if they would use that as a time to really crack down on things ? and change the laws drastically the way they want them to be ?
I am all for good bye ATF and let honest citizens have what they want but can see them USING this for something else ?
It really would not change much from the average joes end, the duties would just be redistributed.
NFA would probably be taken over by the IRS since it's a tax issue.
eternal24k
10-03-11, 08:12
I wouldnt put much stock in it until the said article was published by something other than a .com
kaiservontexas
10-03-11, 08:26
Isn't the licensing of the FFLs a tax issue also? Would that mean everything outside of the criminal investigation stuff, such as when they went after the Hell's Angels for illegal arms smuggling, would become the IRS' duty?
The_War_Wagon
10-03-11, 08:28
THOUSANDS of unemployed BATmen... that would bring a smile to Col. Cooper's face! :D
Littlelebowski
10-03-11, 08:31
I'd like to see that same report in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, or NY Times before I get my hopes up.
Not holding my breath.
This.
Since when would the Obama administration disband ANY Federal agency? Isn't that like the Devil casting out demons?
CarlosDJackal
10-03-11, 09:58
Since when would the Obama administration disband ANY Federal agency? Isn't that like the Devil casting out demons?
This is why I'm neither holding my breath nor am I going to celebrate if this occurs. IMHO, this may be an end run on the Second Amendment because the ATF already maintains a huge number of records that any administration can misuse if there wasn't any regulations that govern its accessibility.
If the obamists were to disband the ATF, who gets those records and what limitations will they have in terms of its use? What are the chances that the current POTUS will use his executive powers and reflag the ATF under a different name and re-task them to do things that may be counter to our Constitution?
He's already used Executive Orders to contradict decisions and regulations passed or approved by both the Legislative and Judiciary Offices. I fear that this may just be another end run in his attempts to increase his authority beyond what it should be. JM2CW.
Possibly, and he's also getting his SC Justices in place as well.
If it happens, you can count on things being worse afterwards for the average citizen. Licenses, fees, taxes, paper work. That's pretty typical when the government "improves it's system".
We should be careful what we wish for. BATFE's problem has always been one of civil regulatory enforcement vs. criminal enforcement. Turning over these functions to other agencies invites additional abuses. I'd rather see all LE duties reassigned to the FBI and the regulatory portion remain as a separate entity. Most violations of firearms laws should be a regulatory matter, not criminal.
This is how some of the other federal agencies handle things. As a regulatory inspector within DHS, I handle civil cases. If one of my investigations uncovers a possible federal crime under 18 USC, I call an FBI agent to review the case. Sometimes we work cases concurrently on both the civil and criminal sides. This system works pretty well and there's a significantly lower likelihood of abuses.
Simply eliminating BATFE without revising the criminal and civil codes will not make things better. It may in fact make things worse. :(
GermanSynergy
10-03-11, 11:00
Right now, the BATFE is the proverbial "devil we know". If it's disbanded, and it's duties assigned to other agencies (like NFA), I'm not so sure the IRS handling it would be an improvement. What's stopping them from raising the $200 tax stamp to say.... $2,000 per item?
I wouldnt be surprised if Der Kommissar turned the ATF's duties over to the DHS.
I'd like to see that same report in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, or NY Times before I get my hopes up.
Not holding my breath.
Yeah, I remember us setting up the tables for that party back in 1981 or so when it looked like Reagan was gonna trim them from the budget. If it didn't happen then, I don't see it ever happening.
I think rumors of a shutdown are nothing more than rumors designed to make the average citizen feel as though they are taking this very seriously while they in fact continue to do nothing.
I'd like to see that same report in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, or NY Times before I get my hopes up.
Not holding my breath.
Exactly.
Just remember, the misery you know is better than the misery you don't know.
Simply eliminating BATFE without revising the criminal and civil codes will not make things better. It may in fact make things worse. :(
Well said. The devil you know and all that...
What's stopping them from raising the $200 tax stamp to say.... $2,000 per item?
Going back to 1934 the price would now be $3381 if adjusted for inflation.
Going back to 1934 the price would now be $3381 if adjusted for inflation.
Yep. Pay your tax in 30 days or turn in your SBR, suppressor, or other class III.
Belmont31R
10-03-11, 13:33
Handguns were to be included in the NFA the first time the law was proposed....imagine THAT! :eek::mad:
THOUSANDS of unemployed BATmen... that would bring a smile to Col. Cooper's face! :D
All the agents would just get rolled into some other Federal agency.
Just thinking out loud here. I don't believe that the tax can be raised without congressional approval.
Also, once it's paid you are good to go. AFAIK they cannot raise the tax and then tell you to pay the new amount.
If any changes are made we need to ensure that gun owners have some representation in the matter.
Heavy Metal
10-03-11, 16:22
Right now, the BATFE is the proverbial "devil we know". If it's disbanded, and it's duties assigned to other agencies (like NFA), I'm not so sure the IRS handling it would be an improvement. What's stopping them from raising the $200 tax stamp to say.... $2,000 per item?
What is stopping them? The United States Congress. The $200 Tax has been set in statute for over 70 years now.
It would take another act of Congress to change it.
Heavy Metal
10-03-11, 16:24
Just thinking out loud here. I don't believe that the tax can be raised without congressional approval.
To quote one Authur Fonzarelli: "Correctamundo!"
All the agents would just get rolled into some other Federal agency.
This.
In addition you know they would increase it from 450 agents to 1,450 agents to make sure they aren't overworked and this way mistakes like the ones the ATF made can't be allowed to happen. It's an easy way to erase the well-known mistakes and employ a thousand other supporters at the same time. If you truly think they would disband the ATF and relegate all responsibilities of said agency to be moot with the stroke of a pen then you're sadly mistaken.
Since when would the Obama administration disband ANY Federal agency? Isn't that like the Devil casting out demons?
To cover up a clear case of extraordinary criminal malfeasance. Anybody even tangentially involved in the case that might have damning knowledge of Admin. officials' involvement can be laid off and distanced.
This will be counter-balanced by hiring at other agencies to cover the former duties of the BATFE.
That said, I'm with Templar, until I see this in the lamestream, I'm not going to believe it.
I'm ignorant of how the DOJ could just "disband" any Bureau considering they were created by law. I wouldn't put it past Obama (or any President of the last half century) to just side-step Congress and do it, but I don't see how it could be done without generating an even bigger scandal.
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