View Full Version : Shopping for a new .22LR
I have a Remington 510 Targetmaster made in 1947. Just a little single shot .22LR, but one of my favorite rifles to shoot. It is cheap to feed, and has amazing accuracy.
A few problems...
1) It has open sights, and I'd prefer an aperture.
2) It isn't going to last forever at the rate I shoot it.
3) I don't want to shoot it out, since I'd like it as a functioning "wall hanger".
So, I have begun poking around a bit to find a replacement for it.
I definitely don't want an autoloader. I have a Ruger 10/22 that I probably haven't shot in at least five years. Due to the nature of the .22LR cartridge, I really like having more weapon manipulation since it keeps me interested. I feel like I'm doing something.An autoloader doesn't give me that.
So, a bolt action is pretty much what I am left with. (Don't desire a lever action .22LR... no real reason, just not what I'd prefer.) So, what are my options? What have y'all tried and been happy with? Anything in particular to avoid?
I don't want to dissuade anyone from sharing their ideas, but I have something in mind I'd like input on. This isn't set in stone, I just looked this up last night- my mind is not made up by any means.
While acting as a volunteer rifle instructor at a scout camp last summer, I had some exposure to the CZ Model 513. Now, this is a youth rifle and is on the small side for me, but I was impressed with the workmanship. They seemed well built and accurate during the brief time I had with them.
I did a little research, and found that the CZ Model 452 is a full size .22LR marketed as a "military trainer". After reading a bit on the model, I found one in stock locally and went to take a look. I liked it. Anyone have any experience with this model in particular?
Did a little more research, and I found a company that makes replacement front and rear sights so that you can have an aperture sight. The company is "Tech-Sights". I've never heard of them, but I haven't dealt with this particular niche very much. Do they make a good product?
I appreciate the help, guys, hopefully by Thanksgiving I'll have come to a decision so I can take advantage of a black Friday sale.
I've purchased 6 or 7 (lost count) new CZ452 and 455 rimfires (22LR, 22WMR, and 17HMR) in the last 7 months....does that say enough? :)
I bought my son a Savage MKII and we both enjoy shooting it. They are affordable and, like all Savages, are very accurate.
I've purchased 6 or 7 (lost count) new CZ452 and 455 rimfires (22LR, 22WMR, and 17HMR) in the last 7 months....does that say enough? :)
Sounds like your experience has shown the same results as mine- good product.
This is probably not a very common desire- but one of the reasons I like my Remington is that it is single shot. I have a very consistent rate of fire. It is a little slow, but is steady.
How well does the single shot adapter "magazine" work, if you've tried one? If it provides a nice feeding channel like my Remington has, I'd probably get one of those and forget the magazine for all except small game hunting. If it is more of just a magazine well plug, I'll just set the cartridge on top of the magazine and be just as well off.
See Remington "feed tray" below.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/Lamarbrog/DSCN0900.jpg
DeltaSierra
10-04-11, 21:15
I have seen and used a few Tech-Sight products...
I can recommend the 10/22 sights that Tech-Sight makes. I have seen thousands of rounds put down range using the 10/22 sights, and they are good to go.
The Tech-Sight AK sights that I saw were a total disaster, and I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.
Considering my experiences, I would be hard pressed to purchase anything other than the 10/22 sights unless I had a chance to look the sights over before purchasing them.
Is the issue with the AK sight a design issue or a quality issue?
I saw a photograph of one... and to me it looked like a dumb idea. The CZ sight looks very straight-forward... unless the quality is just bad, I don't foresee a problem.
I still see minty Remington and Winchester bolt .22's at gun shows for less than you can buy most new manufactured models.
Hard to turn down American made walnut and steel, that would cost 2-3X as much if they were made today.
Easy to put Williams aperture sights on many of them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-05-11, 08:33
I still see minty Remington and Winchester bolt .22's at gun shows for less than you can buy most new manufactured models.
Hard to turn down American made walnut and steel, that would cost 2-3X as much if they were made today.
Easy to put Williams aperture sights on many of them.
I've got a 40X headed my way right now. Any thoughts on reference sources for the old Remington and Winchester 22s? I like rimfirecentral for info, but I was looking for something more edited so that I could understand the different models, and what they actually may be worth.
I dont think its possible to "shoot out" a .22lr, is it?
Secondly, if you want cheap accurate fun, look no further than a savage mkII f. I bought mine for 100 bucks new at walmart. Chopped the barrel to 16" myself and it will stack round on top of each other at 50yds with Wolf MT.
I've purchased 6 or 7 (lost count) new CZ452 and 455 rimfires (22LR, 22WMR, and 17HMR) in the last 7 months....does that say enough? :)
+1 on CZ 452 as excellent accurate rimfire products. I've owned three of them (.17 HMR, and two .22 lr's).
Problem with CZ is sometimes they can have quality control issues more so than other reasonable quality manufacturers. My dad had serious trouble with his CZ 453 Varmint, had to send it back twice and their slow, rather subpar service kind of gave him the run-around. Though CZ rimfires are accurate and well made, I got so disillusioned with their relative lack of adequate support in the US, I sold off my CZ's. No offense to those who still own them: they are indeed nice rifles and I agree with you there. My issue is mostly with CZ USA.
What I'd recommend now in a bolt action .22lr, assuming you want a lower or mid-priced one, is to consider the Browning T-bolt. They are extremely well made, accurate to boot, and come in several different configurations (varmint, sporter, etc.), plus RH and LH actions. My dad has the LH .22lr, and it shoots like a laser (I have shot his extensively and am thinking about buying my own). Plus extremely well made, and Browning's service in the US is usually decent (they treated me very well on an issue I had with my Abolt several years ago).
I can recommend the 10/22 sights that Tech-Sight makes. I have seen thousands of rounds put down range using the 10/22 sights, and they are good to go.
Agree, I have the Tech Sights on one of my three 10/22's, and they are outstanding. I have a bull barrel and I used red loctite per their suggestion to permanently affix the dovetailed adapter onto the end of the bull barrel so I could mount the front sight (which by default, is only set up for factory sporter barrels). The adapter worked great, main thing to be aware of is to ensure that your rifle and the mounted dovetail adapter are level before the loctite sets!
Easy to put Williams aperture sights on many of them.
I'm getting my money's worth in this thread. :-)
One last point, I agree that if you can't or don't want to install the Tech Sights on a 10/22, Williams has two good options:
* They have a less expensive set that will mount directly on a 10/22. This is the WGRS-RU22 model:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=846604
* They have their more expensive "target sights" which will involved a peep sight, plus a separate front sight, and the rear sight will have to be custom-mounted (includes drilling your receiver). I had a set of these mounted once, they are ok and precise, but also large and bulky and not really worth it for most shooters IMHO.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=483133
How well does the single shot adapter "magazine" work, if you've tried one?
Personally, i don't have a need for one, so I haven't tried one.
DeltaSierra
10-05-11, 18:38
Is the issue with the AK sight a design issue or a quality issue?
I saw a photograph of one... and to me it looked like a dumb idea. The CZ sight looks very straight-forward... unless the quality is just bad, I don't foresee a problem.
The design is simply retarded, and the quality is poor.
It doesn't make any sense at all to attach a sight directly to a dust cover that needs to be removed every time the weapon is disassembled. Something like the sight Marc Krebs designed makes a lot more sense from a design standpoint.
The quality is quite poor on the AK sights - The one that I messed around with wouldn't fit the weapon without taking a file to it, and even after that, the sight still wouldn't fit correctly.
I wouldn't hesitate to purchase sights from Tech-Sight as long as it wasn't the SKS model or AK model...
Their other sights are good to go.
I've got a 40X headed my way right now. Any thoughts on reference sources for the old Remington and Winchester 22s? I like rimfirecentral for info, but I was looking for something more edited so that I could understand the different models, and what they actually may be worth.
No, just keep your eyes open at shows and in newspaper ads. They often go for less than they should in my opinion.
I've purchased 6 or 7 (lost count) new CZ452 and 455 rimfires (22LR, 22WMR, and 17HMR) in the last 7 months....does that say enough? :)
The 452s seem hard to find now as they are being replaced by the 455's. Is there enough of a quality difference that the extra effort should be put in to track down or 452 or is the 455 just as g2g?
The 452s seem hard to find now as they are being replaced by the 455's. Is there enough of a quality difference that the extra effort should be put in to track down or 452 or is the 455 just as g2g?
As the 455 offers a few refinements to the 452, I don't think you can go wrong with a 455.
The 452s seem hard to find now as they are being replaced by the 455's. Is there enough of a quality difference that the extra effort should be put in to track down or 452 or is the 455 just as g2g?
I'd also check the CZ forum at RimfireCentral.com, they have a lot of the latest info on the CZ offerings, including pros/cons of the new 455 models.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18
My .22LR is a Ruger 10/22 in an Archangel Marauder Kit
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/427/imag0007in.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/90/imag0007in.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I know its not a bolt action but just an idea for that Ruger you have "laying" around
I bought my son a Savage MKII and we both enjoy shooting it. They are affordable and, like all Savages, are very accurate.
I've got one as well & it's one of my favorite rifles. It has a cheapy 4x32 on it & I can sit with that rifle all day shooting at steel spinners & be be perfectly content.
Bobert0989
10-24-11, 00:08
I just recieved my new toy last week, a Mossberg 346K.
Took it out to zero today (mounted a Nikon 2-7x32 scope on it), and within ten minutes I was stacking 40gr Winchester's in one ragged hole (at almost 80 yards, at that!). The build quality actually surprised me, since I know these rifles don't carry a lot of value. It is a VERY solid gun, the wood is excellent. Only downfall I have found thus far(and common with cheap .22's) is that the trigger guard is made of some kind of hard plastic, which cracked when I was putting it back together. Not a huge deal, I'm just not used to plastic parts and bullied the screw too much.
It's also tube-fed, like my Marlin Model 60's. I liked that too. But if you plan on threading the barrel for muzzle device or suppressor, you won't be able to load it with the suppressor in place. I got so excited to find one that cheap, I didn't think about that little technicality...lol. But all-in-all, I think I have stumbled upon a good little gun. And with the rifle, scope, and cheap 11mm-base rings (from Meijer, lol), I have now invested a whopping $197.05, which is about the starting point for most bolt-action .22's made today, without scope.
Keep an eye on GunBroker, that's how I found my deal. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Mossberg now, this was a good first experience. I'm not saying it's "better than a _______ (Savage, CZ, Marlin, etc.)", but it definately has fulfilled my needs. I've been wanting a bolt-action .22 for years, and now am happy with the one I purchased.
I wish I could figure out how to post pictures, I'd show her off a little!
Can't comment on the CZ's as I have no experiance with them but I had a 10/22 with Tech Sights awhile back and they were great. Well made, rugged, easy to use and well priced. There wasn't a thing I didn't like about them, wish I still had that 10/22 :(
.
So, a bolt action is pretty much what I am left with. (Don't desire a lever action .22LR... no real reason, just not what I'd prefer.) So, what are my options? What have y'all tried and been happy with? Anything in particular to avoid?
While acting as a volunteer rifle instructor at a scout camp last summer, I had some exposure to the CZ Model 513. Now, this is a youth rifle and is on the small side for me, but I was impressed with the workmanship. They seemed well built and accurate during the brief time I had with them.
I did a little research, and found that the CZ Model 452 is a full size .22LR marketed as a "military trainer". After reading a bit on the model, I found one in stock locally and went to take a look. I liked it. Anyone have any experience with this model in particular?
Did a little more research, and I found a company that makes replacement front and rear sights so that you can have an aperture sight. The company is "Tech-Sights". I've never heard of them, but I haven't dealt with this particular niche very much. Do they make a good product?
I own one of the military trainer models. I purchased it 3-4 years ago at a local gun shop. I have since seen several more in other gun shops and the quality appears to be the same in handling and examining them.
If you want a mid-priced quality made bolt-action .22 LR rifle you couldn't make a better choice in my opinion. The rifles are metal and wood and assembled with care.
I purchased mine because I like bolt-action .22s and enjoy shooting with iron sights. At 100 yards with a sand bag and the tangent iron sights I have fired 1 1/2" groups in little to light wind conditions with CCI 36 gr HP ammunition.
It is a very accurate rifle and proven to be quite dependable. For what you state in your post it would make a solid choice. You may also check-out Savage and Marlin for a similar (biathalon) type rifle but I don't believe either can meet the price/ quality of the CZ.
I don't regret purchasing mine and have taught several new shooters the basics of rifle shooting. It lends itself well to off-hand shooting with the balance and heft of a full-size rifle.
Best of Luck
SkiDevil
I own one of the military trainer models. I purchased it 3-4 years ago at a local gun shop. I have since seen several more in other gun shops and the quality appears to be the same in handling and examining them.
If you want a mid-priced quality made bolt-action .22 LR rifle you couldn't make a better choice in my opinion. The rifles are metal and wood and assembled with care.
I purchased mine because I like bolt-action .22s and enjoy shooting with iron sights. At 100 yards with a sand bag and the tangent iron sights I have fired 1 1/2" groups in little to light wind conditions with CCI 36 gr HP ammunition.
It is a very accurate rifle and proven to be quite dependable. For what you state in your post it would make a solid choice. You may also check-out Savage and Marlin for a similar (biathalon) type rifle but I don't believe either can meet the price/ quality of the CZ.
I don't regret purchasing mine and have taught several new shooters the basics of rifle shooting. It lends itself well to off-hand shooting with the balance and heft of a full-size rifle.
Best of Luck
SkiDevil
What he said! ^^^^
The rifle will make some nice groups with cheap bulk ammo. It doesn't disappoint and it has excellent tangent sights (something that its American competitors don't seem to have). The stock is also handsome and it's pretty much a full size affair and the LOP is decent.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=cz001.jpg&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg816/scaled.php?server=816&filename=27376719.jpg&res=medium
I took these pics when I first got it.
The front sight is adjustable for elevation (makes the blade taller or shorter) as is the rear sight, graduated in 25m markings from 25 to 200m. I think the rear sight is also adjustable for windage.
The stock trigger is adjustable.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386726_1668393887264_1759851430_843873_905601762_n.jpg
This is the best 15-shot group I've shot in a while. 40gr CCI Blazer LRN @ 1235 fps out of my CZ. Iron sights, 50yds standard smallbore target. This was Friday evening.
The gun doesn't feel cheap at all. I can't even regret overpaying for mine; it was worth it.
The only downside is the cost of additional mags for the rifle (and that mine came home with a very very very faint rust layer (it was probably in its box for a while before it got to me). I took this off with out a problem as it wasn't even visible to the naked eye (but it was visible under a bright LED light). This isn't the guns fault and I took care of it, and this is really the only complaint I have.
I shoot mine a lot (because I can afford to), and the bore is still mirror shiny. Literally all I do is run a .22 boresnake through it. The bore is very tight, so pulling the b-snake through is a little hard but it always comes out CLEAN. The tight bore is a good thing because I'm assuming it grips bullets well.
It's a great rifle.
Romanian M1969.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cXmVVwoIv_o/Rqo1TSyk7sI/AAAAAAAADFU/8hFqSPTxOVI/s640/CIMG1623.JPG
brickboy240
03-21-12, 12:14
I too have a 510 Remmy that I inherited from my grandfather.
Liked it so much, that I went out and found a 1950s vintage 511 Remmy in a pawn shop and got it for 100 bucks. Put a cheap Bushnell 3x9x32 scope on Millett steel rings and now I can REALLY make the squirrels nervous around here! LOL
I also found a 512 Remmy bolt gun at another pawn shop and snapped it up. Honestly, these old Remington 22 bolt guns are scary accurate and very well made and have spoiled me.
Ever thought about finding a 511 or 512? Seriously....the newer 22 boltguns are made of cast parts, plastic and are just not of the quality of the Remingtons made from the 40s, 50s and 60s. I see the Remmy 510, 511 nd 512s in pawn shops in decent condition for around 100 bucks. All will gladly out group the average Ruger 10-22.
Also, have you ever shot a Marlin Model 39? It might change your view of a 22 lever gun. Mine was made in the late 60s and is almost as accurate as the Remmy bolt guns. Totally reliable and feeds everything. The later Marlin 39s have a cross bolt safety and a rebounding hammer and are not as well made but the ones from the late 60s and earlier are out there for about 400-500 bucks and are amazingly well made and accurate shooters.
Good luck in your search.
- brickboy240
New stuff- for cheap, savage is good as it gets, l prefer the markll BV. CZ is a little nicer and cost a little more. Anshutz is the way to go but pricey.
Used stuff- Good deals can be found on rem 531ts , kimber 82gs, some surplus trainers are ok too. Rem 40x and Win52s are probably my all time favorites, they wont be cheap but they also will get more valuable as time goes by, if you can swing it thats what l'd get a rem40x or win52 .
Oh and dont worry about shooting out a 22lr, l have an old winchester rifle that was my granfathers, then my dads and now mine and has to have literally over a hundred thousand rounds through it easily, still shoots fine.
brickboy240
03-26-12, 10:32
All 3 of my 50s/60s era Remington 22 bolt action rimfire pawnshop rescue guns were bought for under 100 bucks and all will shoot dime-sized groups at the 50yd bench with any ammo I feed them.
Have not seen a stock Ruger 10-22 do that.
If you come across a used Remington Model 510, 511 or 512....pick it up because it might just amaze you for very little money.
- brickboy240
Another recommendation for old Remington and Winchester bolt .22's. Years ago, I bought every $50-$75 old quality .22 rifle I came across. I finally quit when I had 30+. I still give them away for friend's and family's kids.
You will still find them around for 125-200. All steel, walnut, hand fitted. They would cost $600+ if they made them like that today.
brickboy240
03-27-12, 10:04
Yep, all 3 of my 50s/60s made Remingtons have black walnut stocks, hot blued metal and case hardened bolts and triggers. All have thick 24" barrels and sights that you can actually use. Really nice, "pre-lawyer" triggers that break clean and the only plastic is the buttplate. No cast or MIM parts.
A 22 rifle like that would run 600-700 bucks today...but they are in pawn shops all over in the 80-125 dollar range.
They will shoot all day long and feed whatever 22 ammo you feed it...shorts, longs....whatever.
- brickboy240
Next Question?
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6078/6082417051_70763112b5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42137411@N00/6082417051/)
I concur with the post above.
But what's up with the backward sling?
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