View Full Version : Geissele SD-3G is amazing!
After doing some research on aftermarket triggers, I quickly saw that Geissele was the brand to go with. I then had to decide on which one. I was impressed with the videos of the SD-3G and at how quick the reset is. The one thing that made me hold off was seeing in several posts/reviews that some people would have accidental bumpfires because the reset was so quick. I didn't want something that light so I first installed a SD-C.
The SD-C is a great trigger. The flat trigger is very comfortable. I really liked the way the two stage triggers are setup, but I just wish that the reset was quicker. Also, I think that if I really wanted a two stage, I would have preferred the SD-E. If I was always wearing gloves while shooting to where I didn't have as much feel in my trigger finger, I think the SD-C is a little safer in that situation.
I went ahead and ordered the SD-3G (which I should've done at first). I installed the 3G with the quickness having already done the SD-C. I grabbed a magazine and stepped outside to try it out. I didn't want to try and be extra careful with my trigger pull so that I could really see how sensitive this trigger was. I quickly slung up the gun and popped off one round... no accidental bumpfires or anything. The 3.5lb trigger pull feels lighter than pulling through just the second stage of the SD-C. Once you start pulling back on the 3G, it just breaks very smoothly. The follow ups with this trigger is where this trigger takes the cake. I never had an accidental discharge from the quick reset. If I wanted to fire 3 shots quickly, 3 shots is what I got.
I really think that these people getting accidental bumpfires and whatnot either do not know how to properly shoulder their weapon or have some crazy uncontrollable muscle spasms in their fingers. I am extremely happy with this trigger and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone.
Failure2Stop
10-06-11, 21:00
Very good buddy of mine accidentally "doubled" with my SD-3G after a long session of fast shooting with his GI trigger.
No issue, both rounds were safe and through the target, and after that he had no further issues other than burning through ammo at a decent pace.
I think it is a very good trigger regardless of what other internet "authorities" are whining about.
Super Mall Ninja
10-09-11, 18:37
The one thing that made me hold off was seeing in several posts/reviews that some people would have accidental bumpfires because the reset was so quick.
I really think that these people getting accidental bumpfires and whatnot either do not know how to properly shoulder their weapon or have some crazy uncontrollable muscle spasms in their fingers.
Glad I'm not the only one getting 2 round bursts (bumpfire) with this trigger. But it did always happen when I was sitting down shooting since I didn't always have the stock fully supporting my shoulder. The trigger is also extremely easy to "shoulder bumpfire" with and I can easily shoot 450 RPM with just my trigger finger. Great trigger.
Failure2Stop
10-09-11, 20:03
The trigger is also extremely easy to "shoulder bumpfire" with and I can easily shoot 450 RPM with just my trigger finger. Great trigger.
Let's leave the bump-firing to the booger-eating dirt shooters elsewhere.
I love mine but have no idea how people are having accidental dishcharges with doubling or bumpfires with it, it's no where near that sensitive.
I am glad that you like your trigger. I am still on the fence about replacing mine.
Failure2Stop
10-09-11, 20:42
I am glad that you like your trigger. I am still on the fence about replacing mine.
I don't view it as a "must have", but if you want something "better" than a stock trigger, you get a lot of performance out of them.
Love my SSAs and a DMR, but the surprise break on the 3-G was more of a "shock" than a surprise.
As a side note, I tried a G trigger in a buddy's SCAR 17 today and no surprise there. Just outstanding.
Wormydog1724
10-09-11, 20:49
I have the S3G, not SD3G. I'm very happy with mine. I use it for 3 Gun and Action Rifle competitions. I am going to buy two more for my BCM and coyote hunting rifle. The BCM rifle's trigger is terrible but my coyote hunting rifle's trigger isn't bad, but after shooting with the S3G, I'm spoiled. My 'long range' stages in matches have become significantly better recently and I am chalking it up partly due to the better trigger. No doubles or 'bumpfires' here.
viperashes
10-10-11, 03:48
Has anybody tried the SD3G and S3G side-by-side? Other than trigger geometry, are there any other major differences? I'm kind of on the fence on which one I want. A buddy of mine has a dynamic trigger in his rifle, but I'm not sure which model it is. I "like" the flat trigger design, but I'm used to a standard trigger profile.
Has anybody tried the SD3G and S3G side-by-side? Other than trigger geometry, are there any other major differences? I'm kind of on the fence on which one I want. A buddy of mine has a dynamic trigger in his rifle, but I'm not sure which model it is. I "like" the flat trigger design, but I'm used to a standard trigger profile.
I have used the S3G, in a T&E gun I had for awhile, and the person that sent me the gun said that he now uses the SD3G and prefers it. One person's opinion, but he can pick what he wants since he's making the guns. I can't speak to his relative skillset or ability with the carbine but he is an intelligent person and an engineer.
I had the S3G and quickly realized that the SSA was a much better trigger for me.
I have the S3G, not SD3G. I'm very happy with mine. I use it for 3 Gun and Action Rifle competitions. I am going to buy two more for my BCM and coyote hunting rifle. The BCM rifle's trigger is terrible but my coyote hunting rifle's trigger isn't bad, but after shooting with the S3G, I'm spoiled. My 'long range' stages in matches have become significantly better recently and I am chalking it up partly due to the better trigger. No doubles or 'bumpfires' here.
Exactly the same uses for me. 3gun I've become much faster and the under 100 and my 100+ has become easier with the better trigger. Pretty sure this trigger is going in every one of my AR's as I'm so used to it from all the 3gun I've been shooting this year that I HATE shooting with any other trigger.
viperashes
10-10-11, 06:56
I have used the S3G, in a T&E gun I had for awhile, and the person that sent me the gun said that he now uses the SD3G and prefers it. One person's opinion, but he can pick what he wants since he's making the guns. I can't speak to his relative skillset or ability with the carbine but he is an intelligent person and an engineer.
I have used a Geissele dynamic trigger, however I can't say which model it was. I like the flat trigger, however, coming from my personal background, I'm wondering if I would be better off with a standard curved trigger. I've pretty much sold myself on the 3 gun trigger, it's now just down to whether or not I would like to go with the Dynamic line or not.
I had the S3G and quickly realized that the SSA was a much better trigger for me.
Elaborate?
I have the S3G, not SD3G. I'm very happy with mine. I use it for 3 Gun and Action Rifle competitions. I am going to buy two more for my BCM and coyote hunting rifle. The BCM rifle's trigger is terrible but my coyote hunting rifle's trigger isn't bad, but after shooting with the S3G, I'm spoiled. My 'long range' stages in matches have become significantly better recently and I am chalking it up partly due to the better trigger. No doubles or 'bumpfires' here.
Standard GI triggers are hit and miss. I got lucky on my second LPK on my second build with what I perceive to be probably the best GI trigger I've ever felt, would probably compare to an S3G but probably a pound or 2 heavier. I never felt the need to replace that one and certainly not at this time since I sold off the upper.
I have used a Geissele dynamic trigger, however I can't say which model it was. I like the flat trigger, however, coming from my personal background, I'm wondering if I would be better off with a standard curved trigger. I've pretty much sold myself on the 3 gun trigger, it's now just down to whether or not I would like to go with the Dynamic line or not.
I had never used a flat trigger until I tried the SD-C and SD-3G. It looked a little weird, but I kept hearing great reviews. It's a whole lot more comfortable now to keep my finger down at the bottom of the trigger.
viperashes
10-11-11, 03:14
Thanks for that. That little bit of information sold me.
For those that would like a little heavier trigger pull on their SD3G, springs are now available from Geissele that increase the trigger pull weight by a pound.
yallknowho
10-22-11, 20:44
Have you seen the springs available online?
Call Geissele to order them.
I have an SD-3G. The only other premium trigger I ever tried before this was the Rock River NM 2-stage I have in my coyote rig. The SD-3G sort of put me off at first as I wasn't ready for how fast it is, and it's a lot lighter than I was used to too. However, 6 months down the road now, and I'll never look back. I love this trigger, I just had to get used to it. I don't even have fun shooting with my other triggers anymore, which consist of 2 polished (but stock) RR lpk triggers, the RR NM 2-stage, a polished Armalite lpk trigger, and an oddly smooth no-name lpk trigger I just put together.
I'm really liking the odd flat-face on the trigger too. I find that it's slightly uncomfortable, and it causes me naturally to not want to beat on/ride the trigger while running through stages...I think it actually made me a slightly better shooter in that respect, if that makes any sense. It definitely feels funky at first though.
The SD-3G is an amazing trigger, you really have to shoot one to know what you are missing.
The SD3G trigger is awesome. The thing is FAST. I've only had trouble with it doubling once. It was in a .308 AR and only doubled when I shot from prone (I tend to have a light touch on the trigger and I guess it recoiled before I had the trigger pressed all the way back).
Other than that, I've never had any other issues with this trigger.
What is the upside of having a flat trigger vs a normal curved one?
What is the upside of having a flat trigger vs a normal curved one?
It allows you to keep your finger lower on the trigger for a lighter perceived pull. It's more comfortable IMO. I wish I could get one for my AK.
I LOVE this trigger, it lives up to all the kudos.
But, glad to know others have had doubles with this trigger.
I was at a match and I was the first shooter on the first stage of the day. Basically out of 100 or so people at the match no one was shooting yet except me.
When the first trigger pull resulted in a "TRIPLE" it was VERY apparent to everyone at the match. I was very lucky not to be DQ'd on the first shot of the match!
Examining the gun afterward the only anomaly I found was one of the trigger pins had disengaged very slightly. Almost undetectable. I've kept an eye on it afterwards and have not had any further doubles, or triples.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/serevince/2011-02-06_15-13-41_387.jpg
For those interested in increasing the 3.5 lb trigger pull weight on their SD-3G triggers, Geissele also offers springs with pull weights of approx 4.5-5lb (gold colored) and 6lb (blue colored), just call them.
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/Biggy8/Picture062.jpg
SomeOtherGuy
11-21-11, 14:48
Biggy - good to know. I assume those heavier springs also mean more reset force? The reset is already fast and crisp, but I might trade a little heavier pull for a little faster reset.
Serevince - I suspect that most people getting "doubles" with the S3G are in fact accidentally bump firing. I've shot mine really fast, and under competition stress, with no doubling at all. I also wonder if a lower with slightly out of spec dimensions might cause doubling or make it more likely by reducing the sear engagement or interfering with the disconnector operation.
HOLY SH*T!!!
The GA triggers Ive owned and extensively used over the last several years include a couple of S2Ss, a couple of SSAs, one SD-E, and one SD-C. I have significantly sampled the Hi Speed(DMR), and have tried on a few occasions a SSA-E.
The only GA triggers that Ive never felt or shot with are the S3G, and the SD-3G.
Ive owned three KAC 2stage match triggers, one LMT 2 stage trigger, and lastly have owned several stock Colt single stage triggers.
I just received and installed a SD-3G this afternoon for the first time, all I can say is HOLY SH*T:eek:
I'm mesmerized by this pull and reset. Bill and his team never seize to amaze me to the nth degree. No words will ever adequately describe the feel of the pull on this trigger.
It's one helluva understatement to say that the SD-3G has reinvented the term "rolling" trigger. Absolutely silky smooth movement until you fall over the proverbial "edge".
Slight resurrection.
Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.
Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.
Slight resurrection.
Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.
Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.
I suggest you contact the manufacturer/company first before doing all of the playing around you typed above. Considering how receptive Bill and his team are to taking care of any issues with their triggers or their customers, I think it's only fair that you let them help you troubleshoot your problem first, rather than the folks on the internet.
Why would you put a SD-3G/S3G in a rifle that is:
1. by nature intended to be a relatively low volume type rifle,
2. by nature oriented towards precision vs. cqb or gaming,
3. not traditionally used for 3 gun competitions
On a side note, my recently acquired SD-3G is nothing short of spectacular...the speed and feel of this trigger has to be shot and felt in order to truly appreciate how unique it is.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02295-1-1.jpg
I suggest you contact the manufacturer/company first before doing all of the playing around you typed above. Considering how receptive Bill and his team are to taking care of any issues with their triggers or their customers, I think it's only fair that you let them help you troubleshoot your problem first, rather than the folks on the internet.I am not asking for suggestions as I am sharing an experience with this single trigger in a .308 rifle since the topic has been mentioned already. I am attempting to do my own troubleshooting as I have a little bit of a working background in this area also even though I don't produce triggers. No need to bother Bill if I can accurately troubleshoot the issue myself or come up with a combo for this set up as I understand the intended uses for this trigger. If I don't come up with a solution or at least the reason for the issues in the .308 then I will move onto a 5.56 3 gun rifle, which I am also putting together and was the intended rifle for this trigger. A part is backorded so I am waiting and decided to try this trigger in the N6. If there are still issues that I cannot answer then I would be inclined to contact Bill. But until I have ruled out possibilities in the .308 and in a 5.56 rifle, I think I will refrain from bothering him at this point in time.
Why would you put a SD-3G/S3G in a rifle that is:
1. by nature intended to be a relatively low volume type rifle,
2. by nature oriented towards precision vs. cqb or gaming,
3. not traditionally used for 3 gun competitionsSeems that I explained it above. I wished to try this trigger in a precision rifle as it has more of a single stage pull even though I understand he is working on a single stage now. In reality, why does anyone try anything? That is often how solutions are found to questions or new ideas or how product development is inspired. Or if nothing else shortcomings may be discovered. Some people test and evaluate for a multitude of reasons and I do it as a part of my profession and for curiosity. Just because you may not either understand or agree with the reasoning doesn't invalidate the efforts or the process.
On a side note, my recently acquired SD-3G is nothing short of spectacular...the speed and feel of this trigger has to be shot and felt in order to truly appreciate how unique it is.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02295-1-1.jpgI got it. When it comes to Geissele, I have yet to see as large of a supporter of his product than you are. I like his triggers also but quite frankly you sound like the used car salesman of Geissele. At least the way I see it, the way you come across is not flattering to his company.
Surf
We have had some small amount of customers who have issues firing multiple rounds. In all cases it has been due to bump firing. What I am finding out is that as the trigger pull gets shorter, lighter, reset shorter and over travel shorter, bump firing becomes more frequent. Although he doesn't realize it the short reset of the trigger that most find so desirable is too short and his finger is actually pulling the trigger back through the reset.
It seems like very experienced shooters have this problem more because they have developed trigger control to put just enough force into the trigger to drop the hammer.
It is important to understand that triggers on bolt guns and triggers on semi auto guns are fundamentally different. With a bolt gun the shooters hand comes off the gun to work the bolt, the trigger does not have a finger on it during this time. A semi auto reloads itself in a flash while the shooter still has his finger on the trigger. This is a whole different dynamic.
Here is what I can do to help. Send your trigger back in and we will increase reset and provide a additional trigger spring 1 lb heavier. This will make the trigger less prone to bump firing. There is no need to suffer with a trigger that is not up to your expectations, we will get you fixed up straightaway.
WHG
Bill, since you're here...
Would you suggest one trigger over another for someone that uses the more competition-oriented "trigger slap" (or as I think of it, "rapid-reset") vs someone that eases to reset with each shot?
RetreatHell
01-16-12, 00:51
Slight resurrection.
Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.
Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.
(Note that I do NOT have any experience at all with the "Dynamic" version of the Geissele S3G trigger, only the regular curve-shaped S3G trigger!)
I'm VERY happy that another good military-fundamentals-ish shooter is having these issues as well! Well, not "happy." But relieved that I'm not a total douche. I sent a few bursts downrange as well, before taking my S3Gs out of my guns (only had that particular issue with one gun FYI).
I ran several Geissele S3G triggers for around 9-10 months in 2011, including through a Vickers Carbine 1 class in March, right up until 2 weeks before my Trident Concepts Combative Carbine 2 class in November.
When I first dry fired the S3G I was blown away, as I have a feeling many are. I got it to the range with an already-BZO'd gun and went to town blazing away at targets at crazy lightning speeds up close, when running drills like the 1-5 and 2x2x2, etc...
But when I got out to just 50 yards, my groups opened up pretty bad. Anywhere from 2-4 MOA, while trying pretty damn hard from the bench using an Aimpoint T-1. This is unacceptable for my standards. However, I'd incidentally just spent months on partial bed rest at home, healing some wounds and getting my health back up to par. I was essentially being a hermit and not doing hardly any shooting at all, with 3 months being my longest stint away from the range. I pressed on though and ran the S3G triggers for a good while longer. I also noticed I'd occasionally have what I guess I'd have to call "ADs," but they were all while preparing to engage the target. I'd put my finger on the trigger after switching off the safety and moving the muzzle up to the target's center-mass and accidentally squeeze off a round into the groin or gut of the target (or into the berm just off below the target if I was out past 50 yards). That had never happened before. But since it always happened just before I was getting ready to engage the target, I considered it a training issue that could be resolved.
I still kept shooting for shit at 50 yards and beyond for months. Although my accuracy did inherently increase a bit over that time, it still was sub-par and inconsistent. So much so that I started to begin questioning my overall skill and competence as a shooter, not to mention being a former Marine Infantryman as well.
Then in October 2011, while trying to get a solid BZO in preparation for my TRICON CC2 class in November, I shot off a 3-round burst on my first slow, steady squeeze of the trigger. Freaked my ass out! That had never happened to me before. Ever. The guys at that particular bench-shooting range knew me and know that I'm an experienced shooter (they hang and retrieve my targets), so they let me continue shooting to try and figure out what was happening. It happened two more times in a row, so I had a range officer shoot it and it happened to him twice in a row as well. We checked the trigger and everything looked fine, but none of us were 'smiths, either.
The gun's DD Lite rail was resting on some sandbags with the vertical fore grip shoved nice and tight into the bags. This is how I almost always set up my guns when getting a BZO from a bench, and I'd never had any problems before. The range officer then shot it from the kneeling while I got video of him, and it would no longer burst-fire. He then suggested it was actually bump-firing due to the very light trigger and how I had it set up on the bench with the sandbags. This proved to be correct. I wound up getting a very rough BZO that day because I was so afraid to slowly squeeze the trigger (in other words, apply the proper fundamentals of marksmanship). I had no issues when slightly jerking/slapping/snatching it.
I took out all 3 of my S3G triggers from my lowers that night and put in their respective original mil-spec triggers.
The next time I went to the range, I was completely blown away.... My groups were tighter than they'd ever been!!:eek: Just using my plain Jane, no-frills mil-spec triggers in 3 different upper/lower configurations, and utilizing my marksmanship fundamentals I learned back in boot camp in Feb 2002 at MCRD San Diego/Camp Pendleton, I was shooting great. My Marine Corps PMI would've been proud. A couple weeks later, I wound up scoring the 2nd highest score in my Trident Concepts CC2 class, which I was extremely proud of considering the overall quality of my fellow students and their professions.
I learned that the Super 3-Gun trigger is named "S3G" for that exact reason: It's designed for fast-shooting competitions when using specially-designed, fast-shooting, low-recoiling, supped-up and badass blasters, and I'm certain it performs very well in that role. But in a fighting gun, and/or for those of us shooters that the marksmanship-heavy branches/units in the military drilled into our heads how to shoot a certain way with the rifles we used, you may very well have some of the same issues I had. Or you may not. Everyone is certainly different.
I am sort of clueless as to how I shoot more effectively with a heavy mil-spec trigger than with these amazingly high quality Geissele triggers, to include the SSA, but I do. So for the time being I'll likely stick with them, although things can always change of course (LWRC seems to have the best mil-spec trigger I've tried thus far over the past 3 years). But I really, REALLY hope that someday Geissele decides to build a good 5-6lb mil-spec trigger with a little very-smooth pre-travel and reasonably short (but not insane) reset.... Basically a 5-6lb SSA without the long reset that forces you to travel past the actual reset click (I'm not smart enough to actually know proper terms and how shit works, so hope that makes some sense). It would be great to be able to have very consistent mil-spec triggers in all my guns! That would be friggin' awesome!!!:neo:
However, do please note that this is just one no-name, former Marine's opinion -and I know there are plenty of squared away talented shooters running these and other great Geissele triggers (I run the awesome SSA-E in my Mk12 SPR)- and it's worth exactly as much as ya paid for it.;)
Paul, are sure you weren't just using your "fag finger"?
Actually, thanks for the heads up mate. I was considering one of the 3-gun triggers for one of my red dot blasters. Now I think I need to find someone local and try one first.
Cameron
RetreatHell
01-16-12, 01:25
Paul, are sure you weren't just using your "fag finger"?
Actually, thanks for the heads up mate. I was considering one of the 3-gun triggers for one of my red dot blasters. Now I think I need to find someone local and try one first.
Cameron
No problem, brother. I think with these types of specialty triggers that's the best possible way to go if possible to find someone who has one installed in their gun. Everyone on the Net has different opinions, and very different explanations when trying to describe the features of the wide variety of triggers. Reading the name "Geissele" immediately lets me know it's a damn fine quality trigger, but doesn't mean I'll like it or perform well with it in my particular application(s).
And WTF is a "fag finger?" The first image that popped into my head after reading that almost made me puke a bit in my mouth, which is not a very pleasant thing to do to someone!:(
Retreat, thanks for the feedback. You earned my respect long ago, and any opinion of yours I believe is gonna be well founded. You certainly came to your opinion and ultimate decision based on some extensive time running these particular types of triggers, and you gave valid reasons for why these triggers don't fit your needs.
I only recently picked up my SD-3G, but thus far in my use I haven't experienced a single hiccup or otherwise non expected function from this unit. I decided to ultimately run this trigger due to the fact that I'm a huge believer in the SD design, and the fact that the SD-C and SD-E are easily the finest triggers I've ever run to date. The SD-C I believe is the best GP, SBR, Patrol, Duty, etc. type trigger on the market. The gun that I rely on for SD/HD(my SBR) normally has that trigger installed in it, and ultimately I will return to that trigger in my MRP CQB after I get done being WOWed by the SD-3G. This trigger is as close to having a happy switch as I'm gonna get in terms of controlled high rates of fire. I find it amazing how fast this trigger is, and how smooth and controllable it is while being that fast.
I think the folks that might be getting some funky things happening in regards to doubles or whatever have most likely never even fired a "rolling" type trigger as opposed to a "crisp" type trigger. Combine that with the fact the SD-3G is not only a "rolling" trigger, but one that has a very light pull weight, and is also silky smooth through the entire movement of the pull. In short, this trigger is unlike anything out there, and it most certainly takes some getting used to.
Lastly, unlike my beloved SD-C/E triggers, the SD-3G has a very specific and quite narrow application which doesn't involve true precision or true duty type uses. This really is a 3gun trigger, hints the name. People shouldn't buy this trigger for a HD/PD/Duty, or a precision orientated type rifle as it was never designed or intended to be used in that capacity. This trigger is most certainly not for everybody, or even the majority.
And WTF is a "fag finger?" The first image that popped into my head after reading that almost made me puke a bit in my mouth, which is not a very pleasant thing to do to someone!:(
:lol:
My eyes are watering from laughing so hard.
You are right though, it is like the trigger on a carry pistol, we don't want 1.25lb triggers with micro resets on our carry guns, so some of the beautique triggers may no suit all purposes. I need to find a local guy that is running the Super Duper 3-Gun trigger and give it a try before I buy.
Stay safe.
Cameron
Hammertime
01-16-12, 11:31
I shot the SD3G on a timer for the first time yesterday. Shooting multiples I averaged 0.13-0.14s time between shots! Most of that comes from practice, but part of that speed comes from the trigger.
People don't rave about Geissele's products for no reason - their triggers are very well thought, very well made, and very reliable. If you are doubling on the SD3G, you're probably bumping it a bit. I have found that this is really easy to do with any light(ish) trigger, especially from a bipod.
I can't wait to see what Geissele comes out with next.
Bryant
Surf
We have had some small amount of customers who have issues firing multiple rounds. In all cases it has been due to bump firing. What I am finding out is that as the trigger pull gets shorter, lighter, reset shorter and over travel shorter, bump firing becomes more frequent. Although he doesn't realize it the short reset of the trigger that most find so desirable is too short and his finger is actually pulling the trigger back through the reset.
It seems like very experienced shooters have this problem more because they have developed trigger control to put just enough force into the trigger to drop the hammer.
It is important to understand that triggers on bolt guns and triggers on semi auto guns are fundamentally different. With a bolt gun the shooters hand comes off the gun to work the bolt, the trigger does not have a finger on it during this time. A semi auto reloads itself in a flash while the shooter still has his finger on the trigger. This is a whole different dynamic.
Here is what I can do to help. Send your trigger back in and we will increase reset and provide a additional trigger spring 1 lb heavier. This will make the trigger less prone to bump firing. There is no need to suffer with a trigger that is not up to your expectations, we will get you fixed up straightaway.
WHGThanks for the reply Bill. As mentioned my intent for this trigger is a 5.56 rifle geared for 3 gun, however I wished to try it in the .308 precision rifle due to the claimed "feel" of the single stage like pull. I will very much say that it does feel more single stage like as opposed to a two stage feel, but I also understand the possible shortcomings of the trigger especially in a heavier recoiling gas rifle combined with a certain trigger pull type or what I consider a correct pull type on a precision rifle.
On that first range day after quickly inspecting the install and some dry manipulations and closely watching the engagements of the 2 stages, I was dead set (still am) that it was a bump-fire situation and purposely tried to mimic that. In reality a slow or controlled trigger press just past the second stage sear release when the hammer is tripped is was what I felt to be the biggest issue as the first stage is virtually kept out of play or more correct that the engagement is so short that it virtually goes unnoticed. So considering the counter recoil on a gas gun with a reciprocating bolt, especially on a heavier caliber weapon, this easily leads to the bump fire condition when using what I consider to be a correct precision rifle trigger pull. So I do agree with your assessment on the experienced precision rifle shooter and that type of trigger manipulation used there as I couldn't get the rifle to bump fire with a sloppier pull or a "press and flip" type of pull and I understand when this type of pull has its advantages which is not ideal for precision fire. Also a hard, hold to the rear of the trigger didn't allow for the bump fire during the rifles counter recoil phase so I know the trigger isn't slipping off the sear prematurely before I did a trigger reset. I know you understand all of this, but for those reading it may help them to understand what might be happening if they are having similar issues.
I very much understand various methods for running a trigger on both a handgun and a rife and I use various methods weapon, trigger and use dependent so I understand what niche this trigger was designed for. I completely acknowledge that I am attempting to use the trigger in a manner that you really didn't intend it to be used. I will however say that I didn't fully expect to run into this issue, or more correctly expect it to be as pronounced as it was. Without adjusting the triggers reset I am going to simply try a different spring combo just to suit my own curiosity but I understand the short reset will still exist. When your SD-C trigger arrives with the final parts for my 5.56 build the triggers will get swapped. If I continue to have issues, I will let you know if I need an adjustment made on the trigger. I very much appreciate your product and your desire to satisfy your customers as your products and customer service has never been a concern of mine. I will also say that I would also love to see a quality single stage in the 4-5lb range at a good price and look forward to seeing what you come out with.
I have several Geissele triggers. My first was the SSA. Unlike most of the posters here, I am having opposite effects with the 3 gun triggers. I have the S3G and the SD-3G. As of right now, I do not know what 3G configuration I like the best, but I have to say that it is my favorite trigger. I am more of a combat/get a ton of rounds on target quickly type shooter. I only shoot out to about 320 yards max. I shoot MOC instead of MOA. I have experience with very light single stage triggers, two stage triggers and the S3G triggers. I have no issues with doubling whatsoever. I have only had issues with the lighter single stage triggers in the form of wanting to shoot let's say a string of 4 rounds and maybe getting off 5 instead. As far as I am concerned, if that extra round is still on target, I feel it is a non issue.
If anyone wants to dump their S3G triggers, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM!
I will also say that I would also love to see a quality single stage in the 4-5lb range at a good price and look forward to seeing what you come out with.
Surf,
First of all thanks for a very informative Youtube channel!
Secondly, I encountered a similar problem with an S3G.
I had used plain GI spec colt trigger on my carbine, and found the 3.5lb S3G a bit light, which when combined with the short take-up resulted in an occasional "extra" shot.
I found out that Bill was preparing a 5lb spring for the ARFCOM billet lower project, and installed it; it is the same gold colored spring the previous poster mentioned. The pull weight went to a flat 5lbs, and I have used the trigger in a Pat Rogers EAG class without a single incident.
Get one and you will be pleased.
Surf,
First of all thanks for a very informative Youtube channel!
Secondly, I encountered a similar problem with an S3G.
I had used plain GI spec colt trigger on my carbine, and found the 3.5lb S3G a bit light, which when combined with the short take-up resulted in an occasional "extra" shot.
I found out that Bill was preparing a 5lb spring for the ARFCOM billet lower project, and installed it; it is the same gold colored spring the previous poster mentioned. The pull weight went to a flat 5lbs, and I have used the trigger in a Pat Rogers EAG class without a single incident.
Get one and you will be pleased.Thanks, glad you like the channel!
Just a heads up for those interested. Again this is a .308 Noveske based rifle, not a 5.56 and I think this makes a definite difference as in a heavier recoil and reciprocating mass on the counter recoil phase.
Edit - Sorry but I think it is important to also mention that even on a gas gun precision rifle with a pistol style grip, I DO NOT wrap my thumb around the pistol grip. I ride the ambi selector on the same side as I work the trigger as I feel it helps to promote very fine accuracy. I also feel that this can contribute but not the only reason for the issue I was having.
I went back to the range to do some testing. Again with what I consider a better trigger manipulation on a precision rifle I had some doubles on the stock S3G trigger and springs. With a strong pull and more precise or forceful hold to the rear with the trigger manipulation I had no issues but the trigger pull was less than what I would consider ideal.
I next did a spring swap for a USGI set up. Trigger pull increased and I didn't experience any doubles. The trigger was good, but I would opt to perhaps try a 4-5lb spring set up and try to leave the reset length alone. If I altered the reset length and springs then I would believe that I would just end up with one of the other Geissele triggers, so I will leave it at that. Maybe Bill can comment more on that. I actually want to leave it alone to run in the 5.56 3 gun rifle and last night I built up my 5.56 3 gun rifle and put the S3G in that rifle and put in a SDC in the .308.
Here are the offenders.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/DSC_01932.jpg
.308 Noveske
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/DSC_02092.jpg
Unfired Noveske based 5.56
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/DSC_02032.jpg
Thanks again Bill for commenting on the thread and offering your support!
Just an update. Putting out some good rounds via the S3G trigger and not a single issue so far running the S3G in the 5.56 rifle.
A little speed test with the S3G vs a Colt USGI. I actually find my VTAC 1-5 drills to be far better but I truly believe that it is due to the actual weight and feel of the new rifle build as opposed to the S3G trigger and this is from looking at splits. I will say that the trigger is a part of the new rifle's feel, but not the overwhelming factor where I am dipping into the 2 second barrier on this drill.
I did find a bit more consistency with the S3G but in all fairness we are talking in the .01-.02 hundredths of seconds range. I will also note that by the time I got to the VTAC 1-5 drill with the Colt USGI, my trigger finger was pretty spent after about 500 rounds or so. All of those rounds were pure speed drills so the trigger finger was pretty gassed by that point. I will also note that the constant switching between trigger types created an issue than if I were to only run one type and I ran the USGI trigger on the VTAC after the S3G which I think was a factor for some inconsistency issues just due to the different pulls.
I plan on doing a more in depth accuracy testing with a red dot optic and see at what point, if any, that I can actually attest to having better accuracy due to the trigger itself.
S3G vs USGI trigger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pac1BcRc8dg
leeradio13
03-27-13, 08:55
anyone know about the 5lbs pull gold spring? heard it on youtube but can't find it on geissele site... model number would help or i'll just call them.
bnanaphone
03-27-13, 09:59
I would call or e-mail them. I was in the same boat after reading a bit of info here. I contacted them and received one 4lb and one 5lb spring a few days later. I prefer the 4lb spring for my uses.
anyone know about the 5lbs pull gold spring? heard it on youtube but can't find it on geissele site... model number would help or i'll just call them.
Check your pm's shortly.
-Jax
I can't find anything on the 5lb spring. Did this ever come to fruition?
bnanaphone
11-14-13, 12:04
Have you contacted Geissele? It does not appear to be listed anywhere on their site. You need to call/e-mail them for the springs.
Have you contacted Geissele? It does not appear to be listed anywhere on their site. You need to call/e-mail them for the springs.
They've got them. I had a problem with suppressed stoppages that the forum attributed to my S3G not resetting due to the light spring. Not a problem with the trigger, just didn't work with my setup. Anyway, I contacted Geissiele for advice and they sent me a spring free of charge. Great people!
Isn't this also the basic setup for the VTAC trigger?
MikeCLeonard
11-14-13, 22:14
They've got them. I had a problem with suppressed stoppages that the forum attributed to my S3G not resetting due to the light spring. Not a problem with the trigger, just didn't work with my setup. Anyway, I contacted Geissiele for advice and they sent me a spring free of charge. Great people!
Isn't this also the basic setup for the VTAC trigger?
Can you expand on exactly what was happening in your situation, or send me a PM? I'm curious because I have the SD3G installed, and have had a couple instances of my bolt not locking back on empty...and this only happened when I had my suppressor attached, which seamed odd to me.
[/QUOTE]I really think that these people getting accidental bumpfires and whatnot either do not know how to properly shoulder their weapon or have some crazy uncontrollable muscle spasms in their fingers. I am extremely happy with this trigger and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone.[/QUOTE]
I think that the few shots you took aren't indicative of a tendency or lack thereof. Get your self in a high round count high stress situation. Then you may start to find doubling issues. All that aside I love the trigger, but triggers are like shoes (or anything else for that matter) everyone has different needs and taste.
Tons of rounds thru mine And many thousand on an AR Gold trigger before that. Only time I got a few doubles was when they were new and I was sloppy with the trigger. If you have a lazy you may have trouble.
Can you expand on exactly what was happening in your situation, or send me a PM? I'm curious because I have the SD3G installed, and have had a couple instances of my bolt not locking back on empty...and this only happened when I had my suppressor attached, which seamed odd to me.
When I attached my suppressor, I found that the rifle had a tendency to go single shot. It would eject the spent case and load a new live round but would not fire. The trigger was dead. Or, in the alternative, every once in awhile it would go FA for a few before I got the dead trigger.
I went to the forum as well as shooting an email to Gesielle and the consensus was that the bolt was outrunning the trigger so it wouldn't reset. Geissiele sent me a new spring and this seemed to solve the problem.
On a side note, this only happened with my suppressed 11.5, not my 14.5 or any other upper.
bnanaphone
11-18-13, 08:28
That is an interesting occurrence. I have a BCM 11.5 w/ SD3G and the 4lb spring waiting for a suppressor. Will have to see if I experience anything similar.
STAMarine, do you know if Geissele sent you a 4 or 5 lb spring? Thanks for the info.
infidelprodigy
11-21-13, 12:01
The last few orders of SD3G that have come through us have all included both the 3.5 and 5 lb springs. I prefer the 5lb gold spring (essentially the Super V) and have most of my rifles set up that way, with a few still having SSA's in them for work with magnified optics.
HOLY SH*T!!!
The GA triggers Ive owned and extensively used over the last several years include a couple of S2Ss, a couple of SSAs, one SD-E, and one SD-C. I have significantly sampled the Hi Speed(DMR), and have tried on a few occasions a SSA-E.
The only GA triggers that Ive never felt or shot with are the S3G, and the SD-3G.
Ive owned three KAC 2stage match triggers, one LMT 2 stage trigger, and lastly have owned several stock Colt single stage triggers.
I just received and installed a SD-3G this afternoon for the first time, all I can say is HOLY SH*T:eek:
I'm mesmerized by this pull and reset. Bill and his team never seize to amaze me to the nth degree. No words will ever adequately describe the feel of the pull on this trigger.
It's one helluva understatement to say that the SD-3G has reinvented the term "rolling" trigger. Absolutely silky smooth movement until you fall over the proverbial "edge".
Glad you finally got to try one out and like it. I've been running the 3G's for a while and prefer them in my non-precision AR's.
Didn't even realize how old your reply was..guess I'm a year late and a more than a dollar short. LOL
Really, really sorry to resurrect an ancient thread - but I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I simply cannot build another AR without a SD-3G installed. I've built others for friends, but I refuse to downgrade on any future builds for myself. My last three have been SD-3Gs and now all of my other Geisseles feel like poop. I have enough spare parts to assemble 3 rifles, but only an ALG QMS and two PSA mil-spec triggers... I keep telling myself I don't need any more ARs, but this sweet billet upper and lower set has been calling my name and I don't want to drop in an inferior trigger. God, I wish I had never bought that first SD-3G. After I discovered the G2S and SSA I was over the moon... Geissele should put a warning on the SD-3G package - something akin to cigarette pack warnings... "WARNING: Once installed, all other triggers will feel like doo-doo to you and we will forever have you in our grasp." I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one from Tieronearms when they were $240 shipped and in stock.
I do prefer the SSA-E on my "precision" rifle... I want the best, but I blow a lot of money on AR stuff and wouldn't mind trying a new Geissele.
So anyway - has anyone tried both the SD-3G and Super Tricon? I found the Tricon for <$200 shipped but if it's just an SSA with a differently curved trigger bow and stainless springs, I'd rather not...
Thanks in advance... and sorry for the wall of text...
Judging from the description, the Super Tricon is an SSA with a different trigger bow
Really, really sorry to resurrect an ancient thread - but I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I simply cannot build another AR without a SD-3G installed. I've built others for friends, but I refuse to downgrade on any future builds for myself. My last three have been SD-3Gs and now all of my other Geisseles feel like poop. I have enough spare parts to assemble 3 rifles, but only an ALG QMS and two PSA mil-spec triggers... I keep telling myself I don't need any more ARs, but this sweet billet upper and lower set has been calling my name and I don't want to drop in an inferior trigger. God, I wish I had never bought that first SD-3G. After I discovered the G2S and SSA I was over the moon... Geissele should put a warning on the SD-3G package - something akin to cigarette pack warnings... "WARNING: Once installed, all other triggers will feel like doo-doo to you and we will forever have you in our grasp." I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one from Tieronearms when they were $240 shipped and in stock.
I do prefer the SSA-E on my "precision" rifle... I want the best, but I blow a lot of money on AR stuff and wouldn't mind trying a new Geissele.
So anyway - has anyone tried both the SD-3G and Super Tricon? I found the Tricon for <$200 shipped but if it's just an SSA with a differently curved trigger bow and stainless springs, I'd rather not...
Thanks in advance... and sorry for the wall of text...
TradingPlacePawn had SD-3G's for $210 shipped over Memorial Day. :D I bought two and my god are they awesome. I am gonna sell my Timney's and look for more.
I'm running a couple now after my friends advised me not to, definitely glad I didn't listen to them. I run mine with the gold spring.
Really, really sorry to resurrect an ancient thread - but I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I simply cannot build another AR without a SD-3G installed. I've built others for friends, but I refuse to downgrade on any future builds for myself. My last three have been SD-3Gs and now all of my other Geisseles feel like poop. I have enough spare parts to assemble 3 rifles, but only an ALG QMS and two PSA mil-spec triggers... I keep telling myself I don't need any more ARs, but this sweet billet upper and lower set has been calling my name and I don't want to drop in an inferior trigger. God, I wish I had never bought that first SD-3G. After I discovered the G2S and SSA I was over the moon... Geissele should put a warning on the SD-3G package - something akin to cigarette pack warnings... "WARNING: Once installed, all other triggers will feel like doo-doo to you and we will forever have you in our grasp." I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one from Tieronearms when they were $240 shipped and in stock.
I do prefer the SSA-E on my "precision" rifle... I want the best, but I blow a lot of money on AR stuff and wouldn't mind trying a new Geissele.
So anyway - has anyone tried both the SD-3G and Super Tricon? I found the Tricon for <$200 shipped but if it's just an SSA with a differently curved trigger bow and stainless springs, I'd rather not...
Thanks in advance... and sorry for the wall of text...
I've owned and shot both. The tricon is based on the SSA but it does feel different (think something similar to standard SSA and SD-C,but even different). I prefer the tricon over the ssa. However, if you really like the SD3G (much better than the SSA) don't waste your time. You'll just end up,selling it. I no longer have either an SSA or a tricon.
I run either SD3G or SDE (for more precision). About half and half now. I really like the strong reset and the gold spring of the SD3G makes these triggers very useable for all roles.
I started out with a DDm4V1 and thinking that I had lucked out and got a pretty decent factory trigger, the DD was bought after about 5,000 rounds with a PPQ. Although not even in the same Jersey produce patch Handgun to AR I still wanted something better trigger wise, BCM had listed SSA's for a buck eighty and I bought one installed it and was amazed. I though to myself damn Bill G was dead on with his analogy of a carrot. My next build as I was putting parts together for the lower I had another SSA on hand before even starting. I contemplated getting the SSA-E but liked the regular version I decided to stick with it. My latest build I opted to go for the flat trigger and bought the SD-E trigger which I am equally amazed with. My range is just starting 3 gun and I am trying to keep that in mind with this build as I would like to start competing. Those that have tried most or all of the Geissle triggers mostly the SD-3G the SD-E SSA-E what do you feel makes one better than the other. Obviously 70% of this is end user and experience with said equip but I am just curious to what your opinions are to the strengths of each, example flat vs bowed enhanced vs SSA etc. Sorry for the thread derailment but I did not want to open another thread and I am sure I can get an answer here. BTW it's nice to live close to Bill G, one thing I can say they take care of their own. Their door is always open and they are polite and always greet with a smile, I have never walked out with anything less than a shirt a sticker pack and a rad hat in one hand and perhaps a few rails SGB's or Trigger, I love being close but my wife and my wallet hate it ;)
Bluedreaux
05-31-14, 02:17
Jeff Gonzales told me the Tricon is an SSA with a different shape to the trigger.
I am sort of clueless as to how I shoot more effectively with a heavy mil-spec trigger than with these amazingly high quality Geissele triggers, to include the SSA, but I do. So for the time being I'll likely stick with them, although things can always change of course (LWRC seems to have the best mil-spec trigger I've tried thus far over the past 3 years). But I really, REALLY hope that someday Geissele decides to build a good 5-6lb mil-spec trigger with a little very-smooth pre-travel and reasonably short (but not insane) reset.... Basically a 5-6lb SSA without the long reset that forces you to travel past the actual reset click (I'm not smart enough to actually know proper terms and how shit works, so hope that makes some sense). It would be great to be able to have very consistent mil-spec triggers in all my guns! That would be friggin' awesome!!!:neo:
However, do please note that this is just one no-name, former Marine's opinion -and I know there are plenty of squared away talented shooters running these and other great Geissele triggers (I run the awesome SSA-E in my Mk12 SPR)- and it's worth exactly as much as ya paid for it.;)
You need a hot date with a Wilson TTU MIL/LE.
Jeff Gonzales told me the Tricon is an SSA with a different shape to the trigger.
From Jeff's website: http://www.tridentconcepts.com/product/super-tricon-trigger/
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.