View Full Version : B5 is selling SOPMOD stocks for $120 & pics of the Bravo stocks for $58
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/B5-Systems-Stock-black.jpg
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/B5-Systems-Stock-colors.jpg
http://www.rptactical.com/product-detail/b5-systems-enhanced-sopmod-buttstock/791
http://soldiersystems.net/2011/10/03/b5-systems-enhanced-sopmod-stock/
Pretty decent price, considering LMT charges 200 somalians.
Colt should be putting these on their rifles.
These are great for airsoft guns, you can even use them on real guns if you feel like sanding down your buffer tube or the inside of the fake sopmod. If you don't mind having them stuck in one place than no need to even do the sanding. The latch will also require modification in many cases.
These stocks were going for IIrc $68 a piece so apparently they just hiked up the price.
LMT's website has info and pics to help folks who actually want the real deal SOPMODs and to ensure they didn't just buy an airsoft stock.
I believe B5 has the current military contract.
When you buy rejected military seconds, you sort of get what you get.
So KAC and LMT lost the contract to whoever the heck B5 is.
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 02:41
See this is where college grads should stick to college threads and not military procurement related threads.
There are lots of companies with military contracts, even for stuff we know of as one brand on the commercial market, who make stuff for the military. The gov is great at putting things in contracts that allows them to get stuff now, and when one company cannot produce enough stuff other companies are allowed to fill in.
There are companies you NEVER EVER heard of making things like rail mount leaf sights, batteries, filters, and all manner of military hardware.
Does that mean I'd buy a "second" from B5? Not really but they are not airsoft parts from China, either.
Belmont31R
10-07-11, 02:46
Just to give an example I have a pair a ACU's that were made by woolrich, and I bet no one would be any the wiser or ever think Woolrich would be making military issue clothing. Along the same like a favorite libtard hippy brand Patagonia made a large run of special issue clothing for the military.
When one company cannot meet demand usually other companies are allowed to make the product to meet the demand. Just because part XYZ was made by ABC for the commercial market does not mean ABC is the sole source military supplier. And I do believe the SOPMOD stock design is a Crane design in the first place.
These are great for airsoft guns, you can even use them on real guns if you feel like sanding down your buffer tube or the inside of the fake sopmod. If you don't mind having them stuck in one place than no need to even do the sanding. The latch will also require modification in many cases.
These stocks were going for IIrc $68 a piece so apparently they just hiked up the price.
LMT's website has info and pics to help folks who actually want the real deal SOPMODs and to ensure they didn't just buy an airsoft stock.
Did you read the linked article? Also might want to check out the comments.
rogers0317
10-08-11, 19:18
So is this legit?
scoutfsu99
10-08-11, 20:14
yes, it's legit. All those B5 stocks that sold cheaply were factory seconds. They needed to be sanded down in some places to fit. B5 has the .mil contract (I don't know if it's 100% of the contract or just a piece). There's another company making the KAC rail covers too. You couldn't tell the difference if it didn't say P&S instead of KAC. These aren't factory seconds. These are supposed to be good to go.
These are great for airsoft guns, you can even use them on real guns if you feel like sanding down your buffer tube or the inside of the fake sopmod. If you don't mind having them stuck in one place than no need to even do the sanding. The latch will also require modification in many cases.
This is 100% incorrect. The FIRST generation of these stocks that were UNDER CONTRACT TO THE USA were incorrectly sized for a mil-spec RE. That wasn't the companies fault. The prints that were provided to them BY THE GOVT were incorrect.
The 2nd GEN of these stocks are 100% correct and true and have some rather large contracts with the Govt.
These stocks were going for IIrc $68 a piece so apparently they just hiked up the price.
The stocks that were dumped on the market a few years ago, went through DRMO and somebody bought them all and sold them to the public. The reason they were dumped was because of the above.
LMT's website has info and pics to help folks who actually want the real deal SOPMODs and to ensure they didn't just buy an airsoft stock.
Just so we set the record straight, no on the CURRENT GEN stocks being fake or not correct. The company that is making these HAS a USA contract.
C4
So KAC and LMT lost the contract to whoever the heck B5 is.
Yes (from what I understand). It is also my understanding that other .Mil groups are interested in these as well. So we will see more contracts with others I think.
C4
yes, it's legit. All those B5 stocks that sold cheaply were factory seconds. They needed to be sanded down in some places to fit. B5 has the .mil contract (I don't know if it's 100% of the contract or just a piece). There's another company making the KAC rail covers too. You couldn't tell the difference if it didn't say P&S instead of KAC. These aren't factory seconds. These are supposed to be good to go.
Rail covers AND RAS Rails (I have some).
C4
scoutfsu99
10-08-11, 20:34
roger, I forgot about those.
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
CAR-AR-M16
10-08-11, 20:53
The stocks that were dumped on the market a few years ago, went through DRMO and somebody bought them all and sold them to the public. The reason they were dumped was because of the above.
C4
I thought that ALL weapons parts had to be demil'd (scraped) before they could be sold (as scrap). Am I mistaken or has something changed.
I thought that ALL weapons parts had to be demil'd (scraped) before they could be sold (as scrap). Am I mistaken or has something changed.
Not that I am aware of.
C4
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
10-4...your previous replies in this thread make much more since after reading this reply.
If anybody can make and sell SOPMOD stocks in the civilian market I wonder why nobody else has done it before. See the reply from Car- as I question that as well.
I'll stick with the known quantity that hasn't produced a ton of them to the wrong specs.
10-4...your previous replies in this thread make much more since after reading this reply.
If anybody can make and sell SOPMOD stocks in the civilian market I wonder why nobody else has done it before. See the reply from Car- as I question that as well.
I'll stick with the known quantity that hasn't produced a ton of them to the wrong specs.
I don't think that "anyone" can produce and sell these to the "public."
Remember that the "incorrect spec" was not the companies fault. It was actually the Govt's fault.
If you are fine with paying double for the same thing, then drive on brother.
C4
Grant, look forward to your testing of them. I might be in the market for a couple.
Thanks!!
ARKAR
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
Be interested in your review.
The Multi-cam Pattern looks 90 degrees off to me.
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
Badass.
Just what I wanted to hear.
justin_247
10-09-11, 05:55
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
My credit card is waiting on your review!
... now if you'd just get more black or tan padded VCAS slings in, I could grace you with even more cash.
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
Cool let us know.
Does anyone know for sure that lmt/kac lost the contract to make these or if they are just being sourced from multiple providers? Also doesn't b5 make the front kac stile grip as well for the military?
This is 100% incorrect. The FIRST generation of these stocks that were UNDER CONTRACT TO THE USA were incorrectly sized for a mil-spec RE. That wasn't the companies fault. The prints that were provided to them BY THE GOVT were incorrect.
The 2nd GEN of these stocks are 100% correct and true and have some rather large contracts with the Govt.
The stocks that were dumped on the market a few years ago, went through DRMO and somebody bought them all and sold them to the public. The reason they were dumped was because of the above.
Just so we set the record straight, no on the CURRENT GEN stocks being fake or not correct. The company that is making these HAS a USA contract.
C4
How do you tell the difference between the bad gen's vs the current good gen's?
If only these came out a year ago...
Wonder how these will effect other similar stocks, like the ACS and Vltor.
Colt should be putting these on their rifles.
I've heard that somewhere before.... ;)
Failure2Stop
10-11-11, 15:59
The only reason I used any stock other than the SOPMOD on serious guns was the price.
This bodes well for my rifles if I can get them for less than the cost of the ACS (which I do like BTW).
How do you tell the difference between the bad gen's vs the current good gen's?
I believe the first ones that did not have the correct specs don't have the QD swivels and were based off the early sopmod. The corrected ones have the qd swivel. Also the ones that were not sized right were only black if I'm not mistaken.
I'm sure someone can chime in to verify.
Yes (from what I understand). It is also my understanding that other .Mil groups are interested in these as well. So we will see more contracts with others I think.
C4
Does anyone know why KAC and LMT lost the contract?
Joe Mamma
morbidbattlecry
10-11-11, 17:58
For the record, we have some of these stocks coming for T&E. We will also be a distr. for them and will offer some cool package deals.
I have been running a KAC/LMT SOPMOD since day one and still consider it the best or one of the best stocks ever designed. So I will give you guys my input on its quality compared to the KAC/LMT version.
C4
I'm gonna be looking forward to you review on them. I've been thinking about getting a new stock for a while. Although i've heard they have some sharp edges on them.
Does anyone know why KAC and LMT lost the contract?
Joe Mamma
I'm not sure if anyone verified lmt lost any current contract of it they are just being sourced through multiple vendors.
Past that I'm guessing b5 underbid them.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/06/army-buys-sopmod-ar-15-stocks-for-just-12-28/
Frankly, I'll stick with Vltor stocks.
The only reason I used any stock other than the SOPMOD on serious guns was the price.
This bodes well for my rifles if I can get them for less than the cost of the ACS (which I do like BTW).
I used to avoid looking at SOPMOD stocks until I started hunting for deals. You can find them for under $100 new/used if you look hard enough. I bought one used on TOS for that price, and I recently bought a genuine LMT stock on ebay for $75.
The only reason I used any stock other than the SOPMOD on serious guns was the price.
This bodes well for my rifles if I can get them for less than the cost of the ACS (which I do like BTW).
I like the ACS too. Shrouded latch, friction lock and ability to change to extended or shorter buttpads:what's not to like?
Still might have to buy one of the B5 SOPMOD stocks if the price is right.
ARKAR
FireandFlames
10-11-11, 23:45
I'll definately be down for one once we get word from Grant on them, have been looking to replace my rattletastic vltor modstock for awhile now.
How do you tell the difference between the bad gen's vs the current good gen's?
Diameter of the RE hole would be my first guess.
The way to make CERTAIN that you are getting the latest GEN is to buy it from us. ;)
C4
Got three of these in for review.
My initial impression is that they are well made and almost identical to my LMT's.
Tried them on three different RE's (Colt, LMT and BCM). All fit perfectly and were tight (read no rattle).
Pics and more thoughts later.....
C4
Does anyone know why KAC and LMT lost the contract?
Joe Mamma
pure speculation, but like KAC rails, they were the only game in town years ago, now you can hardly give them away. I'm sure Uncle Sam is looking for ways to save money and buy the same cheaper.
For quality and value, the Imod is hard to beat in my opinion. Although I have 8 LMT stocks in my inventory--and a few Imods's:cool:
Just do yourself a favor and buy these from Grant or other established dealer/respected seller, so you don't get ripped off buying a fake.
Grant, please let us know when you will carry them. I ordered one from rptactical, they won't have it in stock till next week, and they won't ship to certain states.
What IS the advantage of the SOPMOD over the VLTOR Imod?
What IS the advantage of the SOPMOD over the VLTOR Imod?
Functionally, none, besides the cost difference which tips in Vltor's favor.
The SOPMOD is longer, but you have to remove the stock to access the content in the storage tubes, whereas with the Vltor, the caps can be removed to access the content in its tubes.
scoutfsu99
10-19-11, 20:30
IMO, the SOPMOD feels more durable. SOPMOD also weighs more and the cheek weld area is a solid slab, not sectioned like the VLTOR. Some people complain about ripped facial hair w/ the VLTOR stocks.
Grant, please let us know when you will carry them. I ordered one from rptactical, they won't have it in stock till next week, and they won't ship to certain states.
Will do.
Why won't they ship to certain states??
C4
Some people complain about ripped facial hair w/ the VLTOR stocks.
I get that with all slider stocks... including SOPMODs.
What IS the advantage of the SOPMOD over the VLTOR Imod?
All of my VLTOR stocks were sloppy compared to the SOPMOD.
For those of you that have tried both extensively, is there a big functional difference between the Emod and the Sopmod? If you prefer one or the other, what is the reason?
I believe the Emod is longer. Is it heavier?
Any large differences in the slope of the cheekweld?
I don't have much facial hair so the cut-outs on the Emod don't matter to me.
Storage is different, but similar...
scoutfsu99
10-20-11, 17:54
I get that with all slider stocks... including SOPMODs.
bro, how do you catch facial hair on a smooth stock? Unless maybe you have some ZZ Top-like beard getting caught b/w the tube?:confused:;)
They have bad information. Even after I explained that there are no laws regarding sending parts like stocks, she said she'd "check with ATF"
Which is just fine, they don't even have it in stock. My order sat there for 10 days and I never got any notification about its back order status, there's another vendor I won't do business with.
Will do.
Why won't they ship to certain states??
C4
They have bad information. Even after I explained that there are no laws regarding sending parts like stocks, she said she'd "check with ATF"
Which is just fine, they don't even have it in stock. My order sat there for 10 days and I never got any notification about its back order status, there's another vendor I won't do business with.
You need to give them a lesson on customer service. You can start the class with.... "This is how I do it". :lol:
Failure2Stop
10-20-11, 23:44
What IS the advantage of the SOPMOD over the VLTOR Imod?
I find it's simplicity to be it's most attractive feature.
I find it's simplicity to be it's most attractive feature.
Would your opinion be the same for the Emod versus the Sopmod?
Failure2Stop
10-21-11, 01:05
Would your opinion be the same for the Emod versus the Sophmod?
I haven't used the EMod for more than a few rounds. I have nothing against the EMod, simply lots of time with a SOPMOD with little reason to choose another stock other than cost. I have been using an ACS on my primary for a while and I really like it, but there isn't anything it does better than the SOPMOD in my experience (now that they come with a QD cup).
Any word on when these will be available Grant?
Although the B5 stocks are cheaper thans the LMTs retail price, I would still rather get a LMT SOPMOD stock kit off ebay for $150
Grant will be getting these in the next 2 weeks. Let me throw out a disclaimer and let everyone know that I work for B5 Systems. Grant got the samples from me and we are in the process of becoming a board sponsor. At B5 we are committed to bringing the highest quality products to market and want end user feedback for this stock as well as the other products we have in the works. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.
Which of your colors is comparable to the official tan/fde color used by LMT and military sopmods?
Which of your colors is comparable to the official tan/fde color used by LMT and military sopmods?
Coyote Brown is matched per the Federal Color Standard, the Flat Dark Earth matches the industry standard (read that as matching Magpul).
Reagans Rascals
11-08-11, 15:34
When one company cannot meet demand usually other companies are allowed to make the product to meet the demand. Just because part XYZ was made by ABC for the commercial market does not mean ABC is the sole source military supplier. And I do believe the SOPMOD stock design is a Crane design in the first place.
isn't that why DPMS was made... Defense Procurement Manufacturing Services....... :sarcastic:
Yes, NSWC CRANE held the patent for the stock (was out there two months ago to meet with the inventor). LMT held the exclusive license to manufacture the stock; they no longer do.
For those of you that have tried both extensively, is there a big functional difference between the Emod and the Sophmod? If you prefer one or the other, what is the reason?
I believe the Emod is longer. Is it heavier?
Any large differences in the slope of the cheekweld?
I don't have much facial hair so the cut-outs on the Emod don't matter to me.
Storage is different, but similar...
The main reason I have SOPMODs on my 3 carbines is because I feel that they are more robust, not that I have ever broken a Vltor stock or heard of one being broken. I also like the stock to receiver extension fit when using a LMT extension.
I'll pick a B5 up from Grant when he gets them in to give to my dad for Xmas.
Coyote Brown is matched per the Federal Color Standard, the Flat Dark Earth matches the industry standard (read that as matching Magpul).
Your website is only listing the stocks in black. Are you guys no longer doing other colors?
All the colors listed will be produced. The initial focus will be on black, flat dark earth, and multi-cam, with coyote brown and foliage to follow. We will produce limited runs of other colors but that will be down the road.
All the colors listed will be produced. The initial focus will be on black, flat dark earth, and multi-cam, with coyote brown and foilage to follow. We will produce limited runs of other colors but that will be down the road.
Sorry, I meant rptactical.com
Initially they had all the colors and now I see only black.
http://www.rptactical.com/product-detail/b5-systems-enhanced-sopmod-buttstock/791
So doing a small bit of research it looks to me as though LMT is claiming that these are fake, imitations and not legit SOPMOD stocks.
Quote from LMT site:
Buyer Beware
The following notice is being posted for your protection. We have been fielding calls about a SOPMOD buttstock (NSN 1005-01-544-9825) which looks like ours. MFR 58VQ8 IS NOT LMT. Our cage code is 3W544.
(Figure 1 (http://www.lewismachine.net/images/fig1and2_files/fig1.gif)) is a genuine Lewis Machine & Tool SOPMOD Buttstock. Look for the genuine LMT marking on the under side of the release lever. Also note the placement of the Patent Pending (Figure 2 (http://www.lewismachine.net/images/fig1and2_files/fig2.gif)) on the genuine Lewis Machine & Tool SOPMOD is on the flat above the release lever under the cheek weld. Not in the center of the flat. (Figure 3 (http://www.lewismachine.net/images/fig1and2_files/fig4.gif))
The counterfeit stock (Figure 4 (http://www.lewismachine.net/images/fig1and2_files/fig4.gif)) has 192000 13020680 MFR 56V08 and the underside of the release lever has no marking. (Figure 5 (http://www.lewismachine.net/images/fig1and2_files/fig5.gif))
While the first two paragraphs depict LMT only trying to differentiate B5 from themselves, it is the bottom paragraph in which LMT claims these are counterfeit SOPMODs in the sense that LMT must feel they own the design rights to the SOPMOD stock which we all know is not the case as NSWC-Crane designed it, etc.
Now the patent pending thing has me confused. Who's patent is actually pending? The .gov, LMT, or who? Because you cannot patent something you didn't design. I mean I guess you could, but I also think the government cannot patent something IIRC. So then LMT apply for the patent? If they did, I do not think that will stand up in court.
LMT: Yes we applied for the patent on this design
B5: Yes we applied for the patent on this design
Gov: Yes we designed it and contracted with LMT and B5 to manufacture it and we gave them both resale rights to sell to the public.
Court: How can either of you lay claim to something you did not have the original idea for?
LMT: uh... dunno.. cause!
B5: what they said!
Court: you are both idiots and it makes sense why the government is dealing with both of you... blah blah blah.
:lol:
I'm now TOO sticking with my VLTOR stocks.
.... it looks to me as though LMT is claiming that these are fake, imitations and not legit SOPMOD stocks.
I wouldn't even consider buying one until I read detailed reviews comparing it to the LMT version. The LMT stock is still overpriced by at least $40, so assuming quality is the same, a price war is in order.
ETA: I own 2 LMT SOPMOD stocks.
scoutfsu99
11-10-11, 06:34
Over on TOS, there is a comparison from Neil @ GunGallery.
I think EvilBert is misreading LMT's info. What they're trying to say is that it's not a LewisMachine&Tool stock.......it's still a SOPMOD. There's no way getting around that.
Have a link, my google-fu is weak today. Interested in seeing what the review says.
I will tell you this, reviews have been very favorable from everyone I have spoken with. Thats from professional door kickers, industry professionals, firearms reps/manufacturers, and joe 6 pack gun owners.
The reviews will be forthcoming and will hopefully put the naysayers to bed. Grant has received his and he is going to be stocking them for a reason; to me that says something. We at B5 Systems know there is a target on our back, thats fine were the "new" kid on the block but we produce a great quality product at a fair price, a product that we stand behind.
Im not going to say who but the B5 Systems Sopmod stock has been selected to be used by some of the biggest and best AR manufacturers in the industry. They selected the B5 Systems Sopmod Stock for a reason. We dont just produce a sopmod stock we produce the B5 Systems Sopmod Buttstock. From our 1 piece SS QD swivel mount, color matched hardware, to the fiber reinforced material, we strive to make the best Sopmod stock available.
As for the legal mumbo jumbo Im not going to go into all the detail on an open forum about the stock but if you guys want to know ask. Feel free to send me a pm or email at mark@b5systems.com. In fact you can call me on my personal cell, 937.632.6309.
At B5 Systems we are committed to the industry and committed to the end user, whether a firearm enthusiast or military/law enforcement professional.
scoutfsu99
11-10-11, 08:49
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/551888_New_B5_Sopmod_Stock_compared_to_LMT_Sopmod__More_photos_.html
davidjinks
11-10-11, 12:09
Damn outstanding post!
So, can we get just the straight gouge from the manufacturer?
SOPMOD stock
Made by B5
Correct Gov specs
Same SOPMOD that's being used in the Mil
Am I understanding this correctly? Pretty much...it's a SOPMOD stock just made by a different company?
Just wanting clarification directly from the "horses" mouth.
Thank you!
Have a link, my google-fu is weak today. Interested in seeing what the review says.
I will tell you this, reviews have been very favorable from everyone I have spoken with. Thats from professional door kickers, industry professionals, firearms reps/manufacturers, and joe 6 pack gun owners.
The reviews will be forthcoming and will hopefully put the naysayers to bed. Grant has received his and he is going to be stocking them for a reason; to me that says something. We at B5 Systems know there is a target on our back, thats fine were the "new" kid on the block but we produce a great quality product at a fair price, a product that we stand behind.
Im not going to say who but the B5 Systems Sopmod stock has been selected to be used by some of the biggest and best AR manufacturers in the industry. They selected the B5 Systems Sopmod Stock for a reason. We dont just produce a sopmod stock we produce the B5 Systems Sopmod Buttstock. From our 1 piece SS QD swivel mount, color matched hardware, to the fiber reinforced material, we strive to make the best Sopmod stock available.
As for the legal mumbo jumbo Im not going to go into all the detail on an open forum about the stock but if you guys want to know ask. Feel free to send me a pm or email at mark@b5systems.com. In fact you can call me on my personal cell, 937.632.6309.
At B5 Systems we are committed to the industry and committed to the end user, whether a firearm enthusiast or military/law enforcement professional.
I'm now TOO sticking with my VLTOR stocks.
Wait wait wait, did you just admit to owning aftermarket AR parts???
Wait wait wait, did you just admit to owning aftermarket AR parts???
:D
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/CIMG3671.jpg
So doing a small bit of research it looks to me as though LMT is claiming that these are fake, imitations and not legit SOPMOD stocks.
Quote from LMT site:
While the first two paragraphs depict LMT only trying to differentiate B5 from themselves, it is the bottom paragraph in which LMT claims these are counterfeit SOPMODs in the sense that LMT must feel they own the design rights to the SOPMOD stock which we all know is not the case as NSWC-Crane designed it, etc.
Now the patent pending thing has me confused. Who's patent is actually pending? The .gov, LMT, or who? Because you cannot patent something you didn't design. I mean I guess you could, but I also think the government cannot patent something IIRC. So then LMT apply for the patent? If they did, I do not think that will stand up in court.
LMT: Yes we applied for the patent on this design
B5: Yes we applied for the patent on this design
Gov: Yes we designed it and contracted with LMT and B5 to manufacture it and we gave them both resale rights to sell to the public.
Court: How can either of you lay claim to something you did not have the original idea for?
LMT: uh... dunno.. cause!
B5: what they said!
Court: you are both idiots and it makes sense why the government is dealing with both of you... blah blah blah.
:lol:
This info is very dated and has to do with the initial bad batch of SOPMOD's that were out of spec (due to the Govt screwing the pooch). So this data is no longer valid.
C4
Is it a Sopmod Buttstock? Absolutely. Is it the Crane/Mililtary Contract or LMT Sopmod? No. We want to be absolutely clear this stock is NOT the military stock nor is it LMT, it is the B5 Systems Sopmod Stock.
When you build something to government specification for a government contract you build it to the exact specs they give you. We retooled, redesigned, and improved the buttstock that is available to you.
The B5 Systems Sopmod Stock that is being released to the public is not the same stock that is being made for the military. The public release stock is a superior product. While the material used is the same mil-spec the stock has been improved by incorporating a textured finish, sure grip stock latch, 1 piece stainless steel QD swivel mount, color matched hardware, and available in colors other than black. There are also some manufacturing/design differences that makes the stock better.
I've shot with both, as far as I can recall though, the Vltor stock is longer, so with me shooting NTCH it always feels to me like I'm in front of the SOPMOD.
The price was always the deciding factor for me. I don't feel the SOPMOD is worth the ~$100 increase over a Vltor. This changes the game, though.
FWIW, I've shot with facial hair (goatee) on a Vltor plenty, and haven't had an issue. Maybe when you go full blown Afghan beard you have an issue, but I never did.
Pretty decent price, considering LMT charges 200 somalians.
Do you mean Somalians or samolians?
I like the SOPMOD stock a lot, and pretty much only use that or the Magpul CTR.
[QUOTE=rsilvers;1140240]Do you mean Somalians or samolians?]
Now that is funny.
AnimalMother556
11-12-11, 18:53
:D
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/CIMG3671.jpg
Never thought I'd see the day. Is that a mickey mouse mount?
Also, anybody have pics of the B5 units or their impression of them?
patriot_man
11-21-11, 00:26
Hi Grant do you know when you'll have the B5's on the site? Thanks
Hi Grant do you know when you'll have the B5's on the site? Thanks
I do not. Soon I hope.
C4
Grant will have these in his possession by next week. Not sure of all the carriers shipping schedule because of Thanksgiving but these will be boxed up and ready to go tomorrow.
Grant will have these in his possession by next week. Not sure of all the carriers shipping schedule because of Thanksgiving but these will be boxed up and ready to go tomorrow.
Sweet! :dirol:
C4
CarlosDJackal
11-22-11, 15:14
While I personally like my CTRs and MOEs; I like these better than the LMT SOPMOD because you don't have that "facial hair grabbing" gap that can really put a tear in your eye. YMMV.
scoutfsu99
11-22-11, 15:39
..........these ARE the LMT SOPMOD, just not LMT.:confused:
..........these ARE the LMT SOPMOD, just not LMT.:confused:
Correct.
C4
scoutfsu99
11-22-11, 15:50
Roger, mine was in response to Carlos' post.
There are lots of companies with military contracts, even for stuff we know of as one brand on the commercial market, who make stuff for the military. The gov is great at putting things in contracts that allows them to get stuff now, and when one company cannot produce enough stuff other companies are allowed to fill in.
1911s and M1 Carbines come to mind.
Finally getting chance to run sopmod tomorrow.
Have CTR and EMOD, really like both, major step above the standard stock.
To those that have ran all three, what do feel is the difference between the two and which do you prefer and why?
Like many guys here the Sopmod stock has always been my favorite stock but frankly not worth it to me to put on all of my guns. IMO LMT priced themselves out of the market and companies like Magpul, Vltor, and others came in and offered similar stocks at a cheaper price. However, where the Sopmod still outshines all the others is its sloping check weld; other stocks are close but I feel the Sopmod is still the best. At B5 Systems were bringing fresh life into this proven design (you can find those details elsewhere in this thread). We have already made changes to the stock to improve it and will continue to do so. All I can say is keep up the feedback because we are listening.
Like many guys here the Sopmod stock has always been my favorite stock but frankly not worth it to me to put on all of my guns. IMO LMT priced themselves out of the market and companies like Magpul, Vltor, and others came in and offered similar stocks at a cheaper price. However, where the Sopmod still outshines all the others is its sloping check weld; other stocks are close but I feel the Sopmod is still the best. At B5 Systems were bringing fresh life into this proven design (you can find those details elsewhere in this thread). We have already made changes to the stock to improve it and will continue to do so. All I can say is keep up the feedback because we are listening.
If you work for B5 then it should probably be part of your online "description" here.
These are now in stock! We will be offering them (alone) and installed on BCM and Colt lowers and complete guns!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/B5_SOPMOD_Side.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/B5_SOPMOD_Side1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/B5_SOPMOD_Front.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/B5_SOPMOD_BCM.jpg
eternal24k
11-30-11, 10:54
How do these fit on standard mil-spec receiver extensions? I am only asking because I have had LMT SOPMODs that were excessively tight on any tube other than the LMT it came with.
scoutfsu99
11-30-11, 10:58
That's strange b/c I've had LMT's on Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske (or whomever supplies buffer tubes to all of them) and never had a problem.
How do these fit on standard mil-spec receiver extensions? I am only asking because I have had LMT SOPMODs that were excessively tight on any tube other than the LMT it came with.
They are snug. No rattle on the LMT, BCM and Colt RE's I have tested them on.
C4
Hunter Rose
11-30-11, 11:20
My SOPMODs when new, were extremely tight as well on non-LMT receiver extensions. Ater using them for a while and collapsing and extending them they loosen up (some material gets worn off the inside of the stock).
Grant,
ETA on the colored and Multicam stocks?
MikeCLeonard
11-30-11, 12:26
How is the multi-cam applied to these stocks?
Is it actually coloring in the plastic mold, or is it a water transfer?
How do they compare side by side to the LMT?
Grant,
ETA on the colored and Multicam stocks?
They are working on it right now!
C4
How is the multi-cam applied to these stocks?
Is it actually coloring in the plastic mold, or is it a water transfer?
Standard way (dipped).
C4
How do they compare side by side to the LMT?
I cannot tell a difference.
Make you a deal, if you buy one and don't like it, I will take it back! ;)
C4
Do you have a link to it on your site?
The link you posted up is the wrong link, and nothing came up on G&R when I searched "B5"
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dstock%20not%20out%20not%20buffer%26searchstart%3D9%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html
Do you have a link to it on your site?
The link you posted up is the wrong link, and nothing came up on G&R when I searched "B5"
Sorry, link corrected: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM
C4
Cool. Will have to wait for the Coyote to come out now.
Eurodriver
11-30-11, 18:43
So....does anyone wanna buy a NIB Black CTR? :D
I'm guessing they weigh the same as a LMT?
I'm guessing they weigh the same as a LMT?
Yes.
C4
I cannot tell a difference.
Make you a deal, if you buy one and don't like it, I will take it back! ;)
C4
Make you a deal, let me know when you have a tan/coyote one in stock and I'll order that and a bunch of other parts I have on my wish list :D
So, any word on when the coyote brown color will be available?Is B5 also making the non-KAC KAC rail covers too?
Currently in production with black. Will soon do a run of flat dark earth, followed by coyote brown, and foliage green. We do not manufacture a KAC rail cover for the military or anyone else. We will be producing our own designed rail cover inaddition to other products.
outrider627
12-14-11, 14:48
Currently in production with black. Will soon do a run of flat dark earth, followed by coyote brown, and foliage green. We do not manufacture a KAC rail cover for the military or anyone else. We will be producing our own designed rail cover inaddition to other products.
Do you have an estimate of how long it will be until you get to foliage green?
eternal24k
12-14-11, 14:59
looking forward to coyote.
How about an urban gray?
Sorry, link corrected: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM
C4
Just ordered one from you, Grant. Thanks!
Will be curious to throw it on and try it out.
AnimalMother556
12-14-11, 22:21
looking forward to coyote.
How about an urban gray?
Nice. I'd buy it.
Anyone buy one of these and have any first hand reports?
Anyone buy one of these and have any first hand reports?
I have one on the way from Grant as we speak (arriving on Thursday), so I'll throw in my $.02 when I get it.
My buddy also has an LMT SOPMOD to compare it to, but there have already been pictures and threads with side-by-side comparisons.
Not much to report, but I have one that I tried on an A5 extension and it's fairly tight around position 1 and 2. Further out and it moves freely. I haven't tried it on any other extensions but I'm wondering if this is normal.
Still itching for that Coyote one. Is the FDE or the Coyote model that is the same as the military ones?
Not much to report, but I have one that I tried on an A5 extension and it's fairly tight around position 1 and 2. Further out and it moves freely. I haven't tried it on any other extensions but I'm wondering if this is normal.
That's true of the LMT SOPMOD on an LMT RE that I have on loan. Haven't put it on a gun yet, but I did notice that it has a little more play the farther you pull it out.
ColdDeadHands
12-20-11, 09:56
I have an B5 on order which should arrive on Thursday. I'll give an update with fit on a LMT Lower.
Any advantage to these over an Emod???
Any advantage to these over an Emod???
If the Emod rattles and wobbles anything like the Modstock I had, then yes. The B5 SOPMOD is also less expensive and has a smoother cheek weld. (review pending)
The B5 SOPMOD is also less expensive and has a smoother cheek weld.
This is why I don't use Vltor stocks. I think they make top notch gear but those damn stocks rip my facial hair out and I'm a wuss about it.
ColdDeadHands
12-21-11, 14:52
Got my B5 from Aim Surplus today. The stock has a slight wobble on my LMT Lower on all positions except when all the way retracted. It weighs 12.49 oz. according to my Kitchen Scale. The CTR that was previously on my rifle weighs 8.96 oz.
Here are some pics of what you get;
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz170/mw1311/Misc/055715c0.jpg
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz170/mw1311/Misc/b42d0f22.jpg
outrider627
12-21-11, 15:08
Aim Surplus has the B5 FDE SOPMOD in stock now.
ColdDeadHands
12-21-11, 15:15
That makes sense, just after I received my black one. :rolleyes:
Aim Surplus has the B5 FDE SOPMOD in stock now.
Pretty sure only OEM customers have received FDE stocks. Were busy getting ready for SHOT and working on various other products but FDE is on the way. Realistically the color options will be available after SHOT but a few might make it out before. ;-)
looking forward to coyote.
How about an urban gray?
There is a certain company in TX that will be using our stocks that just so happens to have a certain gray color they like in their furniture; just might happen.
That makes sense, just after I received my black one. :rolleyes:
If I want a color, I always buy black and paint/alumahyde it. The black parts are stronger according to a manufacturer I spoke with.
scoutfsu99
12-21-11, 20:23
If they say them have them, they do.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XB51075FDE&name=B5+Systems+SOPMOD+6-Position+Stock+Flat+Dark+Earth+%28Tan%29&groupid=6
Guys at AIM are great and in our backyard. Looks like they do have some.
Got my B5 from Aim Surplus today. The stock has a slight wobble on my LMT Lower on all positions except when all the way retracted.
I was under the impression these were supposed to be somewhat snug like LMT. If not mine is going back.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-21-11, 21:22
Ive been cringing everytime I try to buy a Sopmod from LMT. This may have just sold me. Looks like LMT may need to start doing a price adjustment, since the B5 models seem to be pretty hot right now. When you deal in plastics, its inevitable that someone will come along and make the same thing for a cheaper price.
I was under the impression these were supposed to be somewhat snug like LMT. If not mine is going back.
Not all LMT are snug. My SR-15 came with a bit of play. I put a 3'' piece of electrical tape to the top inside of the stock (where the RE slides in). That made it nice and tight.
ColdDeadHands
12-21-11, 21:39
I was under the impression these were supposed to be somewhat snug like LMT. If not mine is going back.
There's no rattle or anything but you can rotate it just very slightly. I have no concerns with mine. The worst (wobbliest) stock I've ever owned was a VLTOR. When you just handle or shake your rifle there's no movement or rattle on the B5 - of course that depends on the dimensions of your buffer tube.
Not all LMT are snug. My SR-15 came with a bit of play. I put a 3'' piece of electrical tape to the top inside of the stock (where the RE slides in). That made it nice and tight.
I was told at a SWAT roundup in Orlando by Lawmens that they molded their own SOPMOD stocks and rail covers.
Dan
This tight fitting Stock fetish is boardering on the absurd. :fie:
Good God! Unless it's a complete rattle nightmare... who gives a shit? A little play isn't even noticeable when you're shooting the gun.
This tight fitting Stock fetish is boardering on the absurd. :fie:
Good God! Unless it's a complete rattle nightmare... who gives a shit? A little play isn't even noticeable when you're shooting the gun.
The zombies can hear really well now, so when you are trying to figure out what position the stock needs to be in for that particular shot, it can give your position away and you get swarmed:suicide2:
ColdDeadHands
12-22-11, 07:03
If I want a color, I always buy black and paint/alumahyde it. The black parts are stronger according to a manufacturer I spoke with.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Makes me feel better about switching from FDE furniture to black.:)
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Makes me feel better about switching from FDE furniture to black.:)
Magpul has been saying this about their PMag colors for years...
This tight fitting Stock fetish is boardering on the absurd. :fie:
These same people buy "matched" uppers and lowers because they are more accurate :blink:
The zombies can hear really well now, so when you are trying to figure out what position the stock needs to be in for that particular shot, it can give your position away and you get swarmed:suicide2:
I stand corrected! :)
ColdDeadHands
12-22-11, 07:08
This tight fitting Stock fetish is boardering on the absurd. :fie:
Good God! Unless it's a complete rattle nightmare... who gives a shit? A little play isn't even noticeable when you're shooting the gun.
For me it doesn't need to be super tight (not what you are thinking:D), but I don't like rattling parts on my rifle. For example; I'm replacing my MOE HG with a DD Omega that I bought from another member here because there is just too much movement going on for my taste.
The B5 Stock is GTG. It does not move by itself.
I was told at a SWAT roundup in Orlando by Lawmens that they molded their own SOPMOD stocks and rail covers.
Dan
Unless something has changed kac was the vendor building the stocks for lmt. So yea the stocks on the kac guns were made by kac(and marked lmt). The stocks on the lmt guns were marked lmt and made by kac).
ColdDeadHands
12-22-11, 07:18
Unless something has changed kac was the vendor building the stocks for lmt. So yea the stocks on the kac guns were made by kac(and marked lmt). The stocks on the lmt guns were marked lmt and made by kac).
And that's why the LMT (KAC) Sopmod stocks cost twice as much.
This tight fitting Stock fetish is boardering on the absurd. :fie:
Good God! Unless it's a complete rattle nightmare... who gives a shit? A little play isn't even noticeable when you're shooting the gun.
If I didn't want a rattling POS then I would've just kept my VLTOR and not planned on buying an LMT until these came out ;) Every LMT I've ever felt has very little rattle/wobble if any. If it's a fetish then I guess everyone buying an LMT is just as bad. I guess some of the people buying UBRs give a shit.
For me it doesn't need to be super tight (not what you are thinking:D), but I don't like rattling parts on my rifle. For example; I'm replacing my MOE HG with a DD Omega that I bought from another member here because there is just too much movement going on for my taste
The B5 Stock is GTG. It does not move by itself.
I understand you better now. First you said a slight wobble and wobble usually means rattle. Something as bad as my VLTOR which I can feel with my face even. Nothing should be that bad on a milspec tube. Either LMT has it figured out or their tube makes a difference.
Something as bad as my VLTOR which I can feel with my face even. Nothing should be that bad on a milspec tube. Either LMT has it figured out or their tube makes a difference.
That's odd. What kind of RE was this? Did you try different REs?
I've got both SOPMOD and Vltor stocks and have never had a rattler. :confused:
That's odd. What kind of RE was this? Did you try different REs?
I've got both SOPMOD and Vltor stocks and have never had a rattler. :confused:
It's BCM and a Stag tube I tried was exactly the same with the stock. You're one of the few I've ever heard of not having a Vltor rattle or wobble like hell.
scoutfsu99
12-22-11, 12:11
My VLTOR has slight movement but I wouldn't label it rattling or wobbling.
It's BCM and a Stag tube I tried was exactly the same with the stock. You're one of the few I've ever heard of not having a Vltor rattle or wobble like hell.
Weird... I'm running 3 different Vltor stocks. None have noticeable play.
ColdDeadHands
12-22-11, 12:15
The vltor that came on my Noveske was a bad "rattler".
Weird... I'm running 3 different Vltor stocks. None have noticeable play.
The vltor that came on my Noveske was a bad "rattler".
Are we talking about original Modstocks like mine or newer Imod/Emod which could have improved the problem?
Are we talking about original Modstocks like mine or newer Imod/Emod which could have improved the problem?
Both. I have two old and one new stock.
My Emod has a little play if it grab the stock body and wiggle it. It doesn't make any rattling noise if I shake the whole rifle.
Weird... I'm running 3 different Vltor stocks. None have noticeable play.
None of my new, or old Vltor stocks have enough play where I would remotely call them "loose" on any of my REs.
ColdDeadHands
12-22-11, 16:13
Are we talking about original Modstocks like mine or newer Imod/Emod which could have improved the problem?
Mine was a older one (3-4 years).
The UPS guy just delivered the one I ordered from Grant.
Initial thoughts:
- This thing is heavy and beefy. For those wondering about the quality of
the composite material B5 is using, fear not.
- Is it snug? Very much so when fully collapsed and on the first hole or
two. Right now, it's next to impossible to fully collapse without really
wailing on it, which makes it a challenge to fit in my 30" range bag.
For reference, mine is mounted on a mil-spec tube from Noveske.
On the last holes, it's better, but not smooth. My previous Magpul MOE was buttery
smooth and tight all the way up and down, so this is a bit of a disappointment in
comparison. Magpul can get the tolerances right, so what gives? No discernable
"rattles" or other play/loose feeling, though.
- I'm hoping my rubber butt pad stays on. I shook the rifle a little to see
if the stock rattled while extended and the butt pad literally fell to my feet.
The holding tabs are not really locking firmly into the butt plate and there's
noticeable daylight visible between the stock and the pad. Will have to test
further and see if this is an issue.
- Cheek weld and overall feel is great, but that's more attributable to
design than manufacturer.
Overall, not bad. But not a ringing endorsement, either. I'll need some more time and rounds with it for a fair critique, though.
UPDATE: 3/19/12
See: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1261509#post1261509
- I'm hoping my rubber butt pad stays on. I shook the rifle a little to see
if the stock rattled while extended and the butt pad literally fell to my feet.
The holding tabs are not really locking firmly into the end plate and there's
noticeable daylight visible between the stock and the pad. Will have to test
further and see if this is an issue.
Same thing on the LMT I'm playing with. It's a crappy design. I got to finger fudging it and cracked one of those tabs taking the butt plate off.
Did some googling around and that problem isn't unique to me. I won't touch those fragile tabs again.. that's for sure. :rolleyes:
Same thing on the LMT I'm playing with. It's a crappy design. I got to finger fudging it and cracked one of those tabs taking the butt plate off.
Did some googling around and that problem isn't unique to me. I won't touch those fragile tabs again.. that's for sure. :rolleyes:
Well, if the butt pad isn't going to stay on (especially when I'm not even shooting), then neither is this stock on my rifle. :mad: It will go back to B5. I snapped back the stock to full extension and guess what? It popped off again.
How hard is it to ensure that a butt pad stays in place? These fastener tabs are kind of a joke. It has to be a problem with the molding they're coming out of.
UPDATE: 3/19/12
See: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....09#post1261509
scoutfsu99
12-22-11, 20:53
I can't speak for the B5 (although I'd love some pictures or video) but since I've been exposed to the LMT SOPMOD in 06, I have yet to see a single one fall off. I'm having a hard time understanding why you would fiddle with one to take it off unless a) you didn't want the pad or b) you're curious about things like that. The two times I've taken my personal ones off, it involved some effort.
ETA: Didn't the instructions have something in them about not removing the pad unless for a replacement or something along those lines?
If you crack one of our buttpads PM here. The buttpad is made to mil specification but we are improving the design. If you have an issue please contact me and well get it resolved. Thx.
If you crack one of our buttpads PM here. The buttpad is made to mil specification but we are improving the design. If you have an issue please contact me and well get it resolved. Thx.
Thanks. I appreciate the quick response and will let you know.
I'll probably hit the range and put it through the paces in the next few days, so we'll see if my problem persists with the pad easily popping off.
scoutfsu99
12-22-11, 21:32
http://lmtdefense.com/media/Sopmod%20Buttstock%20Instruction%20Manual%20booklet.pdf
Belmont31R
12-22-11, 21:35
Same thing on the LMT I'm playing with. It's a crappy design. I got to finger fudging it and cracked one of those tabs taking the butt plate off.
Did some googling around and that problem isn't unique to me. I won't touch those fragile tabs again.. that's for sure. :rolleyes:
I have broken off a tab on an LMT stock myself.
NCPatrolAR
12-22-11, 22:05
I just received one of the B5's today as well. The stock is extremely tight and I was unable to get it past the #2 position on the extension. As for the pad, mine is solid. It didn't pop off and appears to be secure
yugotprblms
12-24-11, 11:55
I just ordered a FDE version from Aim Surplus. Hopefully it works out as well as I think it should. I'll let you know what I think when it comes in.
Just received one as well from G&R. Nice fit, went right onto the Colt extension, no issues. No wiggle, locks up and fits just like the other LMT stocks I have. I will try it on a BCM, LMT and Vltor a bit later to see.
I did notice that the pad is a bit glossy in appearance over the LMT.
Other than that, looks great and works just as well.
Mark
Just received one as well from G&R. Nice fit, went right onto the Colt extension, no issues. No wiggle, locks up and fits just like the other LMT stocks I have. I will try it on a BCM, LMT and Vltor a bit later to see.
I did notice that the pad is a bit glossy in appearance over the LMT.
Other than that, looks great and works just as well.
Mark
Glad to hear you got a good one. I'm thinking mine is going to need a new butt pad with better tabs that lock, but should be able to take care of that through keller.
So yours fits and slides easily to all positions and isn't super tight? Just wondering why there's such a difference in fit on mil spec buffer tubes from different manufacturers - aren't they all the same tube diameter or am I mistaken?
ZOMBIESLAYER
12-25-11, 17:41
Just got mine from Grant's for Christmas. Fits just fine with very little movement. None of the problems others have experienced.
Glad to hear you got a good one. I'm thinking mine is going to need a new butt pad with better tabs that lock, but should be able to take care of that through keller.
So yours fits and slides easily to all positions and isn't super tight? Just wondering why there's such a difference in fit on mil spec buffer tubes from different manufacturers - aren't they all the same tube diameter or am I mistaken?
Ok, went over to a buddy's and tried it on another Colt, BCM, LMT, CMT and Vltor, no issues.
The shine on the buttpad is a cosmetic issue I dont care for as well and one that is being taken care off. We are also beefing up the tabs to prevent the isolated issue of buttpads coming off. We have shipped thousands of these on both the military/civy side with only a few complaints but that is a few too many for us and we have taken steps to redress.
ColdDeadHands
12-26-11, 16:10
The shine on the buttpad is a cosmetic issue I dont care for as well and one that is being taken care off. We are also beefing up the tabs to prevent the isolated issue of buttpads coming off. We have shipped thousands of these on both the military/civy side with only a few complaints but that is a few too many for us and we have taken steps to redress.
Nice, when will the improved butt-pads be available?
Ok, I tried my B5 sopmod on a few different receiver extensions, and it's tight on all of them when it's collapsed beyond position 3. It's not what I'd call 'snug'...it's tight. Is there a known difference in date codes on these or something? I think I'll end up selling this stock but I really like it other than this so it would be nice if there's a known difference in batches or something.
Ok, went over to a buddy's and tried it on another Colt, BCM, LMT, CMT and Vltor, no issues.
That's good to hear. Mine is on a Noveske tube and I'm hoping that I just maybe got a less than perfect one between the fit and the loose buttpad.
I know these things happen sometimes with manufacturing and QC, but like keller has already mentioned, I know I'll end up with one that's right. I still want some time with mine to see if I really need to send it back, though.
http://lmtdefense.com/media/Sopmod%20Buttstock%20Instruction%20Manual%20booklet.pdf
That's telling... LMT knows the design sucks and isn't covered. That in itself wouldn't be a problem if the replacement cost wasn't so absurd.
I literally cracked the LMT I have with my finger strength only. It didn't break off, but it's cracked for sure.
I was just studying the stocks design. I had no real need to remove it, but I like to check out things to see why they're so wonderful. :p
Ok, I tried my B5 sopmod on a few different receiver extensions, and it's tight on all of them when it's collapsed beyond position 3. It's not what I'd call 'snug'...it's tight. Is there a known difference in date codes on these or something? I think I'll end up selling this stock but I really like it other than this so it would be nice if there's a known difference in batches or something.
Who made your receiver extensions?
C4
On my BCM RE the stock is very tight at the #1 position and gradually gets looser moving back. It's still snug at the #3 position but beyond that it has a very slight side to side wiggle. Nothing as bad as the VLTOR it replaced but not quite as consistent as most of the LMTs I've handled. It may be a function of the tube itself.
Carbine receiver extension (buffer tube) machined from 7075T6 and manufactured to Mil-Spec dimensions and specifications. Mil-Spec receiver extentions have a slightly smaller dimension where the stock slides on.
I don't care much for the shiny butt pad either.
Who made your receiver extensions?
C4
Vltor, BCM, Palmetto.
Vltor, BCM, Palmetto.
I have tried it on BCM, Colt and LMT and was a good fit.
Remember that with use (sliding the stock back and forth), the stock will "wear in." So if it to tight, work it for a while (or put some lube on the RE).
On a side note, I am glad that I am not a stock manufacturer. Some people can't get the stock tight enough on the RE and others could care less about "rattle." Since the TDP allows the RE to vary in diameter it would be nearly impossible for a stock to fit the same way on every RE. IMHO, as long as the stock is not following off, it is GTG.
C4
I'm not really complaining, just wondering if it's normal and if it varies. I mainly use a certain brand of stocks and they've always fit great on any receiver extension, so I guess I'm a little spoiled. I might try using some fine sandpaper to lightly work the inner diameter of the stock to make it fit a little better.
Just purchased a B5 SOPMOD today. It will be going on my new Colt lowed with Colt extension tube. Will report when I have it installed on my lower
I'm not really complaining, just wondering if it's normal and if it varies. I mainly use a certain brand of stocks and they've always fit great on any receiver extension, so I guess I'm a little spoiled. I might try using some fine sandpaper to lightly work the inner diameter of the stock to make it fit a little better.
+1
When you've had stocks from other manufacturers that work and fit perfectly out of the box without modification, it just seems odd and slightly unacceptable to have one that doesn't - especially when it's supposedly a high quality, mil-spec product.
I don't think it's being picky to want something new to work "right," but that's just me. I also need to collapse my stock regularly to fit in my range bag, so I need it to slide/adjust without herculean effort.
Sounds like a great deal.
I just got an FDE 1 in today. First thing I did was test it on RE's by Noveske, DD, BCM, and Vltor. Every one of them fit tight and moved freely. I'll wait for Grant to get in some colors and order 2 more. On rifles where weight is not a primary concern these will be installed. Basically, anything with magnification will get a SOPMOD, RDS will stay with CTR's.
+1
When you've had stocks from other manufacturers that work and fit perfectly out of the box without modification, it just seems odd and slightly unacceptable to have one that doesn't - especially when it's supposedly a high quality, mil-spec product.
I don't think it's being picky to want something new to work "right," but that's just me. I also need to collapse my stock regularly to fit in my range bag, so I need it to slide/adjust without herculean effort.
They do work, right out of the box.
C4
They do work, right out of the box.
C4
Some might, but not all. The one I just got from you is extremely tight and has a butt pad that so far doesn't stay on. But like I've stated previously, keller and I will get things sorted out. I'm not worried. It happens.
Overall, I like the stock, but the fit and finish (at least with the butt pads) are not, shall we say, "consistent." Please don't mistake my constructive criticism for whining.
I just got this for my Colt 6020. Everything fit perfect! The new version does have the checkering on the handle. This is good to go.
I have one coming from Grant due to arrive next week. Will report back when it arrives regarding fit and function. I already have an LMT on my 6920....this one will go on a Noveske. Hoping there will be no issues.
Got a FDE from AIM Surplus today, it looks lighter in the picture but is about the same color as the ladder covers I received with my DD MK18 upper. Some of the edges are a little sharper, but at $99 I cant justify paying an extra $100 for a LMT stock anymore. On the LMT buffer tube, it fits just like the LMT stock that came with it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/Guns/DSC04875.jpg
yugotprblms
12-28-11, 13:06
Got a FDE from AIM Surplus today, it looks lighter in the picture but is about the same color as the ladder covers I received with my DD MK18 upper. Some of the edges are a little sharper, but at $99 I cant justify paying an extra $100 for a LMT stock anymore. On the LMT buffer tube, it fits just like the LMT stock that came with it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/Guns/DSC04875.jpg
How does it compare to the Magpul FDE? It looks a bit lighter, but it is hard to tell in pictures, could be a lighting issue or something.
Some might, but not all. The one I just got from you is extremely tight and has a butt pad that so far doesn't stay on. But like I've stated previously, keller and I will get things sorted out. I'm not worried. It happens.
Overall, I like the stock, but the fit and finish (at least with the butt pads) are not, shall we say, "consistent." Please don't mistake my constructive criticism for whining.
Just send it back, those problems aren't worth playing around with or trying to fix.
How does it compare to the Magpul FDE? It looks a bit lighter, but it is hard to tell in pictures, could be a lighting issue or something.
Indoors I can barely tell the difference between B5 and Magpul FDE, B5 is just slightly lighter.
yugotprblms
12-28-11, 13:26
Indoors I can barely tell the difference between B5 and Magpul FDE, B5 is just slightly lighter.
That's what it looks like. The picture seems to indicate yours came with a textured adjustment handle, is that right? I ordered the FDE version from AIM as well, so I am curious.
That's what it looks like. The picture seems to indicate yours came with a textured adjustment handle, is that right? I ordered the FDE version from AIM as well, so I am curious.
Same checkered texture as a LMT stock, just a little sharper.
yugotprblms
12-28-11, 13:34
Same checkered texture as a LMT stock, just a little sharper.
Awesome, thank you.
I just got mine in the mail today from Grant. Production date of 11/11. The butt pad comes off if you wiggle it with moderate force. It is VERY tight in positions 1-3 on my RE, a Spikes. I use it on position 4, so that's not a big issue. I've never handled an LMT stock, so I have no base to compare it to. I like the cheek weld I get, and the texture of the stock. If the buttpad stays on, I'll be happy. If it gives me any issues, I'll contact B5.
I just got mine in the mail today from Grant. Production date of 11/11. The butt pad comes off if you wiggle it with moderate force. It is VERY tight in positions 1-3 on my RE, a Spikes. I use it on position 4, so that's not a big issue. I've never handled an LMT stock, so I have no base to compare it to. I like the cheek weld I get, and the texture of the stock. If the buttpad stays on, I'll be happy. If it gives me any issues, I'll contact B5.
Mine has the same production date and similar issues (as previously discussed). Our stocks seem to be more isolated cases (compared to others w/ no problems), but worth noting if/when we need to talk to keller @ B5.
I've been breaking my stock in (opening/collapsing repeatedly) and have added a little grease to the extension which has helped some. The real issue that seems to potentially need keller's attention would be for a butt pad replacement. I haven't talked to him yet about this, but he's been super cool and very responsive so far in this thread.
+1
When you've had stocks from other manufacturers that work and fit perfectly out of the box without modification, it just seems odd and slightly unacceptable to have one that doesn't - especially when it's supposedly a high quality, mil-spec product.
I don't think it's being picky to want something new to work "right," but that's just me. I also need to collapse my stock regularly to fit in my range bag, so I need it to slide/adjust without herculean effort.
well for $100 more you can get the LMT...
All of my LMT sopmods have been extremely tight, especially when getting closer to the receiver. It's just how they're designed. I prefer the stocks to be tight than to fit sloppy anyway. When collapsed the stock is about 8 inches out, which is perfect for most people.
What exactly is making it super tight near the most collapsed settings
What exactly is making it super tight near the most collapsed settings
Tried my LMT last night again... it too was really tight near the fully collapsed pos on a VLTOR A5 receiver extension.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
No kidding. I almost never adjust a slider unless it's someone elses gun that doesn't fit me.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
Yes, I do. That is why it's not really a big deal for me if it's tight on my RE. I was just surprised at how tight it was. My stock stays in position 4 unless something really extraordinary happens.
My only real concern with this stock is the buttpad not being completely secure on the stock. I don't want to lose it.
WRT adjusting the stock, it's probably true that some people put it in one setting and leave it there. However, there are some folks who have to routinely re-configure the gun for storage, such as in a patrol-rifle rack (which is sometimes fighting for space with lots of other equipment and gear) or a storage bag (when brought daily in and out of a storage rack). In those circumstances, it's understandable to not want to fight the slider each and every day.
scoutfsu99
12-29-11, 09:15
WRT adjusting the stock, it's probably true that some people put it in one setting and leave it there. However, there are some folks who have to routinely re-configure the gun for storage, such as in a patrol-rifle rack (which is sometimes fighting for space with lots of other equipment and gear) or a storage bag (when brought daily in and out of a storage rack). In those circumstances, it's understandable to not want to fight the slider each and every day.
As Grant pointed out, there's no free lunch.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
I totally agree. I don't know that people are so much complaining as just reporting how their stock fits. If anybody is disappointed because it's a little too snug on 1-3 then that's just way too picky. I personally like it that way and it will always loosen with use. 4-6 are a little looser on my RE but I wasn't complaining. For $100 it fits way better than the VLTOR and I wouldn't doubt most other $100 stocks. Or you could deal with the hassle of the friction lock on a Magpul which still leaves some wiggle on most I've handled.
The tabs on the pad of my B5 are extremely strong. I gently pressed on them to see if they would move but I'm not going to put enough force to break them unless it ever needs replacing.
On a side note, people also have to realize that the dry lube on the LMT tube adds a little to the diameter of that RE.
QD snap swivel, what brands work? Anybody, read all 11 pages and didn't see it metioned.:smile:
QD snap swivel, what brands work? Anybody, read all 11 pages and didn't see it metioned.:smile:
I have used the Vltor and Rainier Arms qd sling swivels in mine. They work great.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
My LMT's and my B5 all slide with virtually no rattle/wiggle, on LMT tubes. I think most people's problem here is Vltor.
Well, I haven't been able to find out if these are *supposed* to fit extremely tight on the extension, but it sounds like a lot of them fit "snug". Mine isn't snug, it's tight. Almost tight enough that it has to be hammered on and off, but not quite. No problem, I don't like it and I won't buy another one.
Regarding the comments about why anyone would ever want to put their stock in a different position...why have and adjustable stock at all? I understand that some put it in one spot and rarely move it, but there are reasons to move it. If I want to adjust it I don't want to have to wrestle with it to get it to the length I want, I just want to adjust it and move on. I haven't had a chance yet to sand the inside of my B5, but I will. I don't mind some wiggle at all (the stocks I usually use have some wiggle).
As was mentioned, you can't please everybody. Some like the stock tight as hell, some like it loose, some like it in between. There's no right or wrong way in my opinion, so you have to buy based on personal preference. I just wasn't aware that fitting tight (not just snug) was the intent on these.
+1 about the Gen I stocks being all jacked up. My unit procured these stocks for everyone and none of them would fit properly without a significant amount of sanding.
Off the boards a couple days and miss a few pages of thread. :D
Anyone have a problem buttpad or other issue with a stock feel free to PM or email me and we will get the issue resolved.
On the buttpad we have already retooled and anyone that needs a replacement buttpad let me know and we will get it taken care of. The fitment issue has been isolated but one we wanted to correct.
The sheen or shine of the buttpad has also been addressed and that too will be changed in future production. Other requested changes are also being incorporated.
Regarding the fitment issue and as has previouly been mentioned a lil tight is always better then a lil loose. The stock is made to military spec that said the stock should fit snugly but you shouldnt have to beat it on. If you are having issues see above comment and let me know. Also, please post what receiver extensions you are using that are giving you problems.
I like a snug rattle free stock and that is what we set out to do, we can lower our tolorences but that means more movement. There are a lot of companies that manufacture receiver extensions/buffer tubes and trying to account for everyone to ensure a perfect fit is about impossible.
Keep the comments coming and if you have an issue please feel free to contact me directly.
Any update on the Coyote models?
Will be doing a limited run of coyote in next few weeks.
yugotprblms
01-03-12, 14:20
Just got the stock in today. Here are my initial thoughts:
1. The stock seems to be made very well, I can't see anything that looks like a poor piece of craftsmanship or anything. The stuff it is made out of feels nice and has a great texture to it.
2. It slides fairly well on my BCM receiver extension. It gets tight right up near the receiver, but it is by no means an issue, just noticeably tighter. Still very easy to move by hand. With that said, there still is very little play in the stock when in a position. You can find the play if you look for it, but it isn't that big of a deal.
3. The color of the stock itself is very close to Magpul's FDE, which is nice. It is a little lighter, but not too bad.
4. The butt pad is way goofy looking, it is so shiny, glossy, and totally off colored compared to the rest of the stock. It looks more like Khaki than FDE to me. The glossiness of the stock also seems to lead it to be a little slick. Just shouldering it up in my cotton t-shirt, I could feel it being a little slippery. It is just a goofy butt pad, but with that being said, mine seems to be stuck on there pretty well. I don't see any indication of it coming off without me having to try to get it off.
5. The knurled texture on the adjustment lever, or whatever it is called, is really nice. It lends itself well to getting a good grip on it.
6. Weight isn't horrible I guess, it came in at 12 oz exactly on my little scale. So there are of course lighter options, but I am sure that if you are purchasing a SOPMOD, you are aware that it is a little beefier, and that is fine with me.
Some quick comparisons on the weight.
2.6 oz heaver than the IMOD
3.2 oz heavier than the CTR
4 oz heavier than the MOE
.32 oz lighter than the new STR
.48 oz lighter than the new ACS-L
2 oz lighter than the EMOD
2.08 oz lighter than the ACS
11.36 oz lighter than the UBR
So actually, it does not come in at a bad weight. All those my simple calculations were based off of the weight of the stocks based on their respective web sites.
Here are some pictures:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1260/20120103125850.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/20120103125850.jpg/)
This one seems to get the color difference as best as I can.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2440/20120103125813.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/20120103125813.jpg/)
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2251/20120103125830.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/20120103125830.jpg/)
I used the small thumbnails because I wasn't sure how to embed them so they would resize when you wanted them to, and they are fairly high res, so you could view them in the links.
Overall, seems like a good stock. I may end up painting the butt pad black and trying to make it less slippery, but other than that it seems like a solid stock.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
Not to address rattle, but I shoot in position 4, bag in position 1 and safe in position 6. That is four movements every time I take one out, so no, I don't mostly leave it in one position.
I have to ask the question, don't you guys just put it in one position and basically leave it there?
Remember that you cannot have your cake and eat it to. If you want NO RATTLE, the stock has to be tight. If you want it to slide easily, there will be some rattle/movement.
C4
The only time I collapse mine is to fit in the case. I have four, two require me to collapse my 10.5" and 11.5" guns, (my BFG SBR case and an Uncle Mikes case I have, two do not my regular BFG case and my small Sneaky bag. I actually prefer the larger bags because it's one less thing to mess with.
Not to address rattle, but I shoot in position 4, bag in position 1 and safe in position 6. That is four movements every time I take one out, so no, I don't mostly leave it in one position.
Understand that. It isn't like your life is depending on being able to adjust the stock on the fly. You have plenty of time to move the stock for the needs you listed.
C4
outrider627
01-03-12, 18:25
I just got my stock. Before this one, I've had one Vltor IMod and two EMods. So far, I like the SOPMOD stock. I gotta applaud B5 at bringing these to the market for a much lower price than LMT. I always liked the look of the SOPMOD and wanted to try one based on the reviews I read, but I couldn't justify $200 for one when I knew Vltor stocks were good at half the price.
So on to my initial impressions:
I like the texture of cheekweld. It's a little rougher compared to the smooth plastic of the Vltor stocks. My stock does get real tight in postions 1-3, and a little looser in 4-6. The buffer tube is a Spikes grey tube.
Very little play throughout the positions, but most noticeable in 6. Even when on 6, it has less movement than Vltor stocks I've had. The Emods needed some electrical tape on the buffer tube.
The buttpad is definitely shinier than Vltor IMod/Emods, but it doesn't bother me. It's locked onto the stock body pretty good. The only negative is that its not as sticky as the Vltor stocks. It definitely slides easier on my shirt. Hopefully future production runs are more like the Vltor buttpads.
Can anybody post any photos of the LMT SOPMOD FDE beside the B5 FDE? I would to see LMT'S FDE color side by side B5'S FDE color and see if B5 FDE stock is light than LMT FDE color.
Can anybody post any photos of the LMT SOPMOD FDE beside the B5 FDE? I would to see LMT'S FDE color side by side B5'S FDE color and see if B5 FDE stock is light than LMT FDE color.
LMT's FDE did not match Magpul's FDE (if memory serves me right).
C4
SomeOtherGuy
01-05-12, 10:57
Can anybody post any photos of the LMT SOPMOD FDE beside the B5 FDE? I would to see LMT'S FDE color side by side B5'S FDE color and see if B5 FDE stock is light than LMT FDE color.
See attached photo.
B5 SOPMOD in FDE in center. LMT SOPMOD in dark earth at top. Ergo grip on left. Troy CBIR mag on right. Magpul AFG in Magpul's FDE at bottom.
yugotprblms
01-05-12, 11:00
Great comparison man. I almost want to find a way to darken my b5 FDE, but I think I'd rather just color the buttpad black and hydro dip the stock later on.
SomeOtherGuy
01-05-12, 11:06
I've had my FDE B5 SOPMOD for just two days now, so these are only initial impressions. I've been using an LMT SOPMOD for about six months, so that is my comparison standard. Overall the B5 is a SOPMOD and is very comparable to the LMT product, with these exceptions:
-the plastic feels stiffer and more glass-filled than what LMT uses
-it doesn't photograph well, but the B5 version of FDE has a bit of a greenish cast and some swirl marks visible up close. It's also one of the lightest tans I've seen called FDE. (However, the LMT tan/brown is I believe just dark earth, which is a different shade)
-the buttpad is very hard and very glossy. Needs improvement, which Keller (?) mentioned would be coming.
-the steel hardware appears to be painted. I would prefer just a black oxide or parkerizing treatment.
-the release latch rattles a bit from side to side when locked in any position (the LMT latch doesn't do so)
The good: other than the above, the molding and quality appears to be completely comparable to the LMT stock. I tried mine on LMT, BCM and Spike's tubes and it fit fine on all three. On the LMT tube it is a tiny bit stiff toward fully closed, but nothing difficult and in fact less stiff than I remember for a brand new LMT SOPMOD on a brand LMT tube. There is a tiny bit more play with the B5 than with the LMT, but it's insignificant.
yugotprblms
01-05-12, 11:15
Those are pretty much my exact observations as well. The only think I dislike about the stock is the butt pad. It needs revising.
Keller,
do you have any idea when the new butt pads may be released and a cost guesstimate?
-the steel hardware appears to be painted. I would prefer just a black oxide or parkerizing treatment
+1 on that
SomeOtherGuy, thanks for the photo of the LMT FDE SOPMOD and B5 FDE.
I'll get one of these when they get rid of the problematic buttpad and have it in FDE--maybe two or three after trying one.
Please keep us informed Grant.
Got my B5 FDE stock in today. Initial impressions are that this is a nice stock for the money. I have had an LMT stock for a couple weeks so here are a few things I noticed off the bat, most of this has been mentioned before.
- The buttpad is very slick, The glossy texture looks okay but allows the stock to slip easily on my t-shirt.
- The Lmt stock has a metal insert in the QD swivel, not present on my B5 or it is painted FDE.
Other than the obvious color difference, the B5 seems like a solid stock. After comparing the lmt and b5, I see no reason to choose an LMT sopmod stock.
Pic showing the color compared to several other shades of FDE:
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp133/m1ajunkie/100_2310.jpg
Keller,
do you have any idea when the new butt pads may be released and a cost guesstimate?
Wondering the same thing. I sent him a PM a week ago about a warranty replacement and haven't heard back yet.
I'm guessing he/B5 are busy getting ready for the SHOT show. We'll hear as soon as things settle down for them, I'm sure.
There's no metal sleeve in the QD socket? Is that very secure?
ColdDeadHands
01-12-12, 06:58
There's no metal sleeve in the QD socket? Is that very secure?
The QD Cup in my black B5 is metal.
SomeOtherGuy
01-12-12, 08:26
There's no metal sleeve in the QD socket? Is that very secure?
As above, the QD socket in my FDE B5 SOPMOD is metal. It's just painted.
As above, the QD socket in my FDE B5 SOPMOD is metal. It's just painted.
As is the latch hardware.
Good to know. The earlier pics didn't really show a QD swivel. Now I know it was just painted.
Hey guys. Yes you are correct getting ready for SHOT and have been swamped doing so.
The revised buttpad is presently being produced and will go on stocks from here on out. If you have requested a buttpad because of fitment problems you will be getting a replacement. Ive had 3 guys request new buttpads and they will be getting one.
We are in process of redesigning the latch. There is nothing wrong witht he current one but we want to improve it. We will be radiousing all the edges as well as taking any play it may have, as well as beefing it up internally.
The QD insert is one piece stainless steel. To my knowledge we are the only one to offer a one piece SS QD insert. We will be incorporating the limited rotation feature once we get back from SHOT. The finish is not painted but rather a proprietary sprayed on finish.
As far as color on the FDE I think the match is pretty close to the industry standard. If you have a lot of the other guys products you will note some variance in shading from product to product as well as production lot. If you want a darker brown/tan, keep your panties on because Coyote Brown will soon be available. Be advised that this will be a close match to Remington/Bushmaster.
All the color options will be demo'd at SHOT and pics will soon follow. Got some stocks in MultiCam and ATACS that look sweet.
We also have been busy designing new products and will show our new stock to select folks at SHOT. Look forward to seeing old friends and making new ones. If you guys have an issue feel free to send a message if you need something in a hurry give me a call.
937.672.6309
Thanks for the update! Hope you guys have a good, successful show.
yugotprblms
01-12-12, 10:16
Will the newer buttpads have a better color and be less slippy?
Will the newer buttpads have a better color and be less slippy?
Yes, and I was told they'll be available separately for a small charge after SHOT.
yugotprblms
01-12-12, 10:29
Yes, and I was told they'll be available separately for a small charge after SHOT.
Nice, I'll look forward to picking one up, this one is too slick and goofy looking.
I see Rainier Arms has these for 99$ (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2965), are they the "good" ones or "bad" ones?
I see Rainier Arms has these for 99$ (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2965), are they the "good" ones or "bad" ones?
Well considering they just started having these on their new products list around the same time as everyone else, I'd say yes. I doubt RA would sell bad parts.
outrider627
01-12-12, 11:47
I see Rainier Arms has these for 99$ (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2965), are they the "good" ones or "bad" ones?
Those are GTG. The bad ones do not have the QD sling mount.
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