View Full Version : Talk me out of an M&P 9
I was killing time this afternoon and went to a couple of gun stores. One of the places I went to was Sportsman warehouse. They are having a special until Wednesday, no sale tax. So I go and take a look at an M&P in both full size and compact. I did not care for the compact but the full size was nice.
Anyway the price is $499.99. No tax, so I save almost 50 bucks. To top it off S&W is having a mail in $50 rebate and two free mag. So the price drops to $449.99 and I get two more mags.
Now I need your help. TALK ME OUT OF BUYING ONE!
Why would we talk you out of it. It is a well known fact that you need at least one of every caliber in compact and full size.
Business_Casual
11-16-07, 18:06
They are nice pistols.
M_P
Nathan_Bell
11-16-07, 18:08
Nope, not gonna do it
I'll talk you out of it...just kidding :p
I tried not to like the M&P. I tried to pick it apart and find some reason to hate it so I could stick with my beloved Glocks. But it didn't happen and now, not only do I shoot it almost exclusively, I'm probably going to sell a couple of Glocks and pick up an M&P45 and an M&P9c.
Well you people were no help! I just got back. I also picked up a Benchmade Rukus that was on close out.
Bulldog1967
11-16-07, 22:23
I sold all of my Glocks and replaced them with FOUR M&Ps.
Coming here to ask for help for NOT buying one is like asking a bunch of nymphomaniacs to recommend some good abstinence books. :eek:
Sent a PM.
The M&P seems solidly built, and is available with many different options. We've had great luck with 'em.
BTW, you are in Spokane...another networking connection wouldn't hurt, shoot me a PM.
Jay Cunningham
11-16-07, 23:04
I plan on getting one, and I'm a Glock guy.
Talk me out of an M&P 9
Okay... Don't buy an M&P9!!
That will leave more on the market for us to buy. And buy them we shall, for they are reliable, accurate, and ergonomic!
Oh well, I guess I'm not doing very well at talking you out of it.
Same here, I kept resisting and resisting trying to believe the M&P was no better till I shot one. And so, I sold my Glock. Surprising how soft they shoot and how forgiving they are as compared to other pistols.
Sorry buddy......;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9122
I sold all of my Glocks and replaced them with FOUR M&Ps.
In hell you will burn!
Now I need your help. TALK ME OUT OF BUYING ONE!
Ok. Don't get an M&P. They're still not as proven as a Glock and while the ergonomics are a bit nicer they are not perfect and I believe the Glock to still be better. The mags aren't cheap. You may have to get the trigger worked on right out of the box. There is no mid-size option ala G19.
Ok. Don't get an M&P. They're still not as proven as a Glock and while the ergonomics are a bit nicer they are not perfect and I believe the Glock to still be better. The mags aren't cheap. You may have to get the trigger worked on right out of the box. There is no mid-size option ala G19.
I would have to disagree. The M&P is being used by a good many LARGE PD without any issues. The ergonomics are NIGHT AND DAY and no the trigger does not need work right out of the box. I will admit that the M&P's in 45 are on the rough side, but nothing 500rds won't fix.
Let us also not forget that the Glock has reliability issues when coupled with a metal weapon light (like a SF X200). The M&P frame has a metal cage that the polymer is injected over giving it much less flex. The M&P also has a superior internals (such as the metal guide rod vs the Glock plastic GR).
The mags are more expensive, but look for that to change in 2008. The full size is just a hair bigger than a G19 so I think that is simply splitting hairs.
I have been a Glock fan/owner since the mid 90's. I have seen the light and sold all my Glocks.
C4
I would try to talk you out of one, but it would be wrong of me to do so.
I have seen the light and sold all my Glocks.
C4
Or drank the kool-aid! ;)
More importantly, what about those PMAGS...are they in yet?
John_Wayne777
11-20-07, 15:45
I plan on getting one, and I'm a Glock guy.
I actually think he shot mine better than I did on the headshot accuracy drill.
Or drank the kool-aid! ;)
More importantly, what about those PMAGS...are they in yet?
Or am a Glock Armorer and a M&P Armorer and understand that one gun is built much bette than the other. :D
Black and FDE only on the PMAG's.
C4
Glocks have better triggers and are much easier to fix in the field if you have a problem and need to replace parts. The M&P roll pins require a trip to Massachusetts for a repair.
Robb Jensen
11-20-07, 16:34
Glocks have better triggers and are much easier to fix in the field if you have a problem and need to replace parts. The M&P roll pins require a trip to Massachusetts for a repair.
Not really, I've been shooting Glocks for 20yrs and a factory trigger on a Glock is far worse than on a factory M&P pistol.
M&Ps can be taken apart almost as easily as a Glock w/o going to Massachusetts. The tool that holds the grip inserts works as a punch you'll just need a small hammer. It's different than the Glock and in many ways it's better. The sear block has the metal rear frame rails and the locking block has the metal front frame rails. Because of this the pistol frame flexes much less than a Glock (no problems w/mounted lights). Having the firing pin safety further rearward (when compared to a Glock) is smarter because less gunk makes it into the firing pin channel. Making the frame have removable inserts is a well thought out design, sights are metal and the front it dovetailed and won't shoot loose. Gunsmiths like Bowie and Burwell can do phenomenal trigger work on these without the use of lighter striker or sear springs, actually it's one of the easiest guns to do triggerwork to.
M&P Trigger- So easy a caveman can do it.
Seriously, out of the box trigger is the only real advantage the Glock has, that and the trigger return spring. Plus, the CTC grips just drop in as a replacement.
On a side note, has anyone else had trouble removing the pin holding in the extractor? I messed up a punch doing it. Turns out, 5k+ rounds does tend to inhibit functioning........
Glocks have better triggers and are much easier to fix in the field if you have a problem and need to replace parts. The M&P roll pins require a trip to Massachusetts for a repair.
I don't agree about the trigger. In some ways the Glock is easier to repair, but in others, the M&P is. So I think it is about a wash as far as that goes.
One thing is for certain, S&W has better customer service than Glock.
C4
Okay, that does it.....
I put a G19 on layaway last week. I'm calling tomorrow to see I can change it to a M&P9.
From what I've gathered from Hawkeye's thread on his new FDE M&P45, S&W has added a steel insert to the dust cover apparently to minimize frame battering....does anyone know if this is something that is or is going to be incorporated series wide? Would it be necessary for a 9?
Okay, that does it.....
I put a G19 on layaway last week. I'm calling tomorrow to see I can change it to a M&P9.
From what I've gathered from Hawkeye's thread on his new FDE M&P45, S&W has added a steel insert to the dust cover apparently to minimize frame battering....does anyone know if this is something that is or is going to be incorporated series wide? Would it be necessary for a 9?
I have 9's, 40's and 45's in stock an will look tomorrow at them. Me thinks that it is only on the 45's.
The M&P frames ALL have steel roll cages built into them. This helps greatly with frame flex.
C4
Just to be clear, I dont know if that is something that is just the FDE 45's, the 45's in general, or everything. As far as I know right now, its just the FDE 45's.
I don't agree about the trigger. In some ways the Glock is easier to repair, but in others, the M&P is. So I think it is about a wash as far as that goes.
One thing is for certain, S&W has better customer service than Glock.
C4
I had a M&P9 that I had the Burwell 5# trigger done on. I wasn't very impressed with the quality of the work performed..but I digress.
I bought the M&P as it fit my hand better, and I like S&W's customer service. I thought I could never get used to the Glock grip angle, and thought their trigger sucked.
While my M&P was away getting a better trigger/ stippling work done do it...I bought a G19. I shoot the Glock better than I do a tuned up M&P, and stock M&P's. I have tried to shoot the M&P better....I just can't.
I've had issue with the M&P reset (or lack there of)...I also believe the overtravel is longer on the M&P than on the Glock...but that could just be my perception. The M&P trigger definitely comes very gritty...the Glock trigger is many things, but gritty isn't one of them.
The M&P is still evolving....Glocks are pretty squared away. I've had to send more M&P's back with issues than I have Glocks. Most of the issues have been magazine related...dropping them, and feeding issues.
I've got over $800 in the gun, trigger and grip work, holsters, and different sights for my M&P...I really want to like this gun...but it doesn't give me anything my scratched up 2nd gen G19 doesn't. As a result, the M&P is getting sold.
This is all just my opinion....but I've shot and carried both. I personally don't feel that they've unseated Glock as the "standby" pistol...I just see them as another great option we as shooters have to choose from.
I've wrung out an M&P, and kept pace with their progress in a couple of user groups. My thoughts:
The trigger is poor in travel and soft in reset. Correctable to an extent, for a price.
The ergos aren't bad, and some will like the slimmer profile. How much better it is than other options is overstated IMO.
Tweaks in production are constant. Swaps of problematic guns correct the issue, in exchange for different ones. It's getting better, but the road is bumpy for the guinea pigs.
It's essentially a cocked and unlocked single action auto.
It has potential. It's not the next firestorm in duty and defensive handguns as some would allege, but just another viable option for consumers.
S&W is inking some tremendous deals for gov customers to take back some market. Having screwed the pooch with other recent designs, and support for them after the sale, resistance remains. Sales are strongest where S&W has traditionally been strong, also with the new-widget crowd, and the individual commercial buyer. Converts from other systems are substantially less in number. Prediction: that number will decline, not increase.
I like the fact that it doesn't have those darned finger grooves, that fit no one well.
Those who have them should enjoy them. I wish S&W well.
I'm much more interested in the Sig P250.
While i do like my M&P, both of my roll pins on the frame are starting to move on me, just a little.I just puched them back in and will see in they move again, if they do ill just replace both roll pins, no big deal.Other then that it has ran 100%.Now i did buy an XD9(1 week later) and i noticed that i was more accurate and was able to shoot it a little faster then my M&P.For ME i think the XD shoots better then the M&P in my hands.Now if i could just get some of the spare parts for the XD insted of dealing with springfield armory.:( one of the down sides of owning the XD.
The mags are more expensive, but look for that to change in 2008.
C4
This has been a big turn off for me.
Quality AR mag = <$15
Factory Glock mag = $16
M&P mag = $34
They are even higher than Sig mags.
Do you think the M&P mags will get close to $20?
Okay, that does it.....
I put a G19 on layaway last week. I'm calling tomorrow to see I can change it to a M&P9.
From what I've gathered from Hawkeye's thread on his new FDE M&P45, S&W has added a steel insert to the dust cover apparently to minimize frame battering....does anyone know if this is something that is or is going to be incorporated series wide? Would it be necessary for a 9?
Put the kool-aid down and step away.
In 9mm, if the G19 fits your hand, stick with it as it is a better weapon (IMO). In other calibers maybe the M&P is A way to go. My only M&P is in 45 but I won't be selling my 1911's anytime soon from the looks of it.
This has been a big turn off for me.
Quality AR mag = <$15
Factory Glock mag = $16
M&P mag = $34
They are even higher than Sig mags.
Do you think the M&P mags will get close to $20?
We sell M&P mags for around $30. I think S&W will sell them (eventually) for around $17.
C4
Put the kool-aid down and step away.
In 9mm, if the G19 fits your hand, stick with it as it is a better weapon (IMO). In other calibers maybe the M&P is A way to go. My only M&P is in 45 but I won't be selling my 1911's anytime soon from the looks of it.
I agree, if the glocks fits YOU fine then get it ,if the M&P works for you, get it .Again, as i have said before, there are NO magic handguns, they will all work for sometime and then they will break parts/wear out ,just replace the parts as needed(pm) buy a QUAILTY pistol and you will be fine.:)
...... there are NO magic handguns.....
RUN! I'm holding JMB back from kicking your a$$!! :D
The "magic" is in ones head (ie. how you fight, your SA, etc). The rest...and I hate the term...are just the tools.
- It's the singer not the song.
- It's the indian not the arrow.
.....The "magic" is in ones head......
I thought it was in the trousers.:eek: :p
I thought it was in the trousers.:eek: :p
There's a "head" in there also! :D
mmmmmm MAGIC mmmm:D ;) I was just glad i spelled the word magic right wheww.:p ;)
Hey... I'll give it a shot..
I got to shoot an S & W when they first came out.. about 300 rds.
What did I discover... that it pointed well... The trigger was fine (even thought the triggers caused a small blister to form on my finger due to where the hinge point was for me).. and that it's not magic.. it's a pistol.
Does it make me wanna sell my G-17???
Noop...I shoot my G-17 very well..
Magazines are plentiful and reasonably cheaper (A big issue for me, I like having lots of mags‚)
Plenty of accessories.
Been around for over 25 years with a proven track record or reliability .
Besides.. there will be another "New" Pistol ins a few years.. and every one will be selling there S & W's to get that one....:p
Is the S & W a bad pistol... no.. just not that great for me to dump everything and go chasing after this one... I can tell you it won't make me a better shot... only shooting does that...
I went to the range Tuesday and ran about 100rds through it. It shot very well. I have never cared for Smith autos in the past, but this one is different. When they first came out I thought the trigger was just like the Sigma’s. My friend has a Sigma and shooting them side by side you could tell that the trigger on the M&P was much better, not even in the same class. I found it to be smooth and crisp and not too heavy. After it got dark I did some shooting using the Harries technique. The natural point of aim was great, the sights lined up quickly on target. I really like how it shot at night. It’s nice to see an American company putting out a product that can go head to head with Glock. Will I sell my G19? I doubt it. I have had my Glock for about 15 years now and I don’t see it going anywhere soon.
I went to the range Tuesday and ran about 100rds through it. It shot very well. I have never cared for Smith autos in the past, but this one is different. When they first came out I thought the trigger was just like the Sigma’s. My friend has a Sigma and shooting them side by side you could tell that the trigger on the M&P was much better, not even in the same class. I found it to be smooth and crisp and not too heavy. After it got dark I did some shooting using the Harries technique. The natural point of aim was great, the sights lined up quickly on target. I really like how it shot at night. It’s nice to see an American company putting out a product that can go head to head with Glock. Will I sell my G19? I doubt it. I have had my Glock for about 15 years now and I don’t see it going anywhere soon.
I'm not getting rid of my G19 either but I will be buying a couple more M&Ps. I want a M&P9c for CC and a M&P45.
I'm not getting rid of my G19 either but I will be buying a couple more M&Ps. I want a M&P9c for CC and a M&P45.
Same here, I love the Glocks. That area I gripped about on the M&P(texturing under trigger guard) isn't even noticed now.
Same here, I love the Glocks. That area I gripped about on the M&P(texturing under trigger guard) isn't even noticed now.
Woah, wait a minute. There's a textured area under the trigger guard? Since when?
Woah, wait a minute. There's a textured area under the trigger guard? Since when?
I believe he is referring to the part of the stipling on the front strap where it wraps up under the trigger guard a little. I found that area to be a little rough on my finger, so I took a very sharp knife to it and ever so slightly smoothed out some round edges, right where my middle finger on my right hand goes under the trigger guard at. Mainly right where it comes around to the back side of the mag catch.
I believe he is referring to the part of the stipling on the front strap where it wraps up under the trigger guard a little. I found that area to be a little rough on my finger, so I took a very sharp knife to it and ever so slightly smoothed out some round edges, right where my middle finger on my right hand goes under the trigger guard at. Mainly right where it comes around to the back side of the mag catch.
Yup, that's it
I guess I don't notice it anymore.
I think S&W will sell them (eventually) for around $17.
C4
When is this supposed to happen. That is the biggest reason why I have not bought more mags for mine $41 is a little to much. The only place that stocks them in my area is the S&W Shooting Sports Center
When is this supposed to happen. That is the biggest reason why I have not bought more mags for mine $41 is a little to much. The only place that stocks them in my area is the S&W Shooting Sports Center
Don't know for sure, but have heard S&W talk about it.
We sell M&P mags to M4C members for $30 (FYI).
C4
They just opened a new Sportsman's Warehouse here this week and I was looking at the various M&P pistols during my first trip. I went back later that night and all the 9mm's were gone already. I have two 45's and love them.
Beat Trash
11-24-07, 16:15
I'm new here, but I'll give my $0.02 worth.
I love my Glock 9mm's, especially the G-19.
A little over a year ago, my Department was looking to replace our Smith 5946's (junk). We T&E'd a few different guns and were leaning hard towards the Glock, until our LE Sales rep talked about the M&P. We got the first 3 T&E 9mm M&P's to leave the factory. They had issues, which the project team at the factory worked through. When the T&E gun came back, we put over 20K documented rounds through one. I detailed myself to the range for 8 hours to just pump rounds through the thing, as we were running short of time (got over 2k through it that day). Gave up cleaning the gun after 10K rounds, just to see what would happen.
We now have around 1,100 guns in the field, all full sized M&P 9mm's. (we have 200 of the compacts on order, to issue to investigators, undercover plain cloths officers, and Command Staff). Our Department will be finishing qualifications for the year shortly before Christmas. This qualification includes an armors inspection of every gun.
The result of the first years field use for us is great. The guns have shown no hidden issues, and qualification scores across the board are up compared to the 5946's.
I have around 7,500 rounds through my issued gun. The only problem I have with it is I feel the stippling on the frame could have been more aggressive. I have stippled the removable back strap, which seems to help alot.
The M&P 9mm is a great gun. The current promotion of two magazines and $50 rebate makes it even more attractive. So much so, that I have been debating for the last three days about picking up a M&P compact. The only thing stopping me is I still like the Glock 19 I have been carrying off duty for the last few years, and our LE sales rep keeps talking about a sub-compact coming out in 2008. This is supposed to be a 8 rd gun, smaller and thinner than the M&P compact.
I still love my Glock 19, but I don't see myself buying any more Glocks.
Try as I might, I can not talk you out of buying a 9mm M&P.
That's one heck of a first post!:D
our LE sales rep keeps talking about a sub-compact coming out in 2008. This is supposed to be a 8 rd gun, smaller and thinner than the M&P compact.
Tell me more!
That's one heck of a first post!:D
No doubt! Welcome Beat Trash, please make yourself at home. :)
Don't know for sure, but have heard S&W talk about it.
We sell M&P mags to M4C members for $30 (FYI).
C4
You have discounts for M4C members?
Beat Trash
11-25-07, 08:41
Thanks for the welcome.
All I can tell you about the sub-compact M&P is what our LE rep told us...
Supposed to be an 8 shot, most likely single stack. I got the impression it is to replace the CS9 Chief's Special. Was originally told of this last spring, with a due date of early 08. Now being told it might have to get pushed back a bit due to meeting the demand of current M&P lineup. If this ever happens, and I'm sure it will, I think they would sell them to the CCW market as fast as they could make them.
They are also making a "Target" version of the M&P with a longer slide and a lighter weight disconector (to compete with the Glock 34). One of our armors has been playing with a privately owned M&P. He's got the trigger down to around 3.5 lbs or so.
Personally, I wouldn't mess with the trigger unless it had some rough spots in it. The T&E gun we put a high round count through, after about 10k or so, the difference in the trigger was amazing. It just kept getting better and better.
Robb Jensen
11-25-07, 09:47
They are also making a "Target" version of the M&P with a longer slide and a lighter weight disconector (to compete with the Glock 34). One of our armors has been playing with a privately owned M&P. He's got the trigger down to around 3.5 lbs or so.
Personally, I wouldn't mess with the trigger unless it had some rough spots in it. The T&E gun we put a high round count through, after about 10k or so, the difference in the trigger was amazing. It just kept getting better and better.
That's the 5" M&P and I should have a T&E model as soon as they're available. The rumor is that the slide will be the exact same weight as the regular size M&P9 unlike the heavier slide on the Glock 34 vs Glock 17. Presently S&W is undecided if they're going to offer the IPSC model (lighter trigger, very short reset, match sights etc) first or a standard model first. Personally I think they should come out with the standard model first. Bowie and Burwell do great trigger jobs and Warren and 10-8 sights are better than anything S&W will likely offer. Competition shooters will 'tweak/tune' them anyway so leave it to the end user. On Burwells website there's instructions on how to get the trigger down to 2.75lbs.
Thanks for the welcome.
All I can tell you about the sub-compact M&P is what our LE rep told us...
Supposed to be an 8 shot, most likely single stack. I got the impression it is to replace the CS9 Chief's Special. Was originally told of this last spring, with a due date of early 08. Now being told it might have to get pushed back a bit due to meeting the demand of current M&P lineup. If this ever happens, and I'm sure it will, I think they would sell them to the CCW market as fast as they could make them.
This is great news. This is the market Glock should've hit. Kind of like the 36 market.
I was killing time this afternoon and went to a couple of gun stores. One of the places I went to was Sportsman warehouse. They are having a special until Wednesday, no sale tax. So I go and take a look at an M&P in both full size and compact. I did not care for the compact but the full size was nice.
Anyway the price is $499.99. No tax, so I save almost 50 bucks. To top it off S&W is having a mail in $50 rebate and two free mag. So the price drops to $449.99 and I get two more mags.
Now I need your help. TALK ME OUT OF BUYING ONE!Get it cheaper via Bud's.
Scratch that... it appears Bud's jacked up their prices by $20 or so.
NCPatrolAR
11-25-07, 14:16
The Bud's price includes shipping now.
All I can tell you about the sub-compact M&P is what our LE rep told us...
Supposed to be an 8 shot, most likely single stack. I got the impression it is to replace the CS9 Chief's Special. Was originally told of this last spring, with a due date of early 08. Now being told it might have to get pushed back a bit due to meeting the demand of current M&P lineup. If this ever happens, and I'm sure it will, I think they would sell them to the CCW market as fast as they could make them.
Sounds interesting.
Single stack would help for CCW, but I wonder if there are any plans to slim the slide. Slimmer thru the slide would be better for CCW, but too many changes and it's no longer the M&P we've come to know and love.
I'm new here......We now have around 1,100 guns in the field......
DAYYUM ! ! ! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Ditto on the welcomes.;)
....Single stack would help for CCW, but I wonder if there are any plans to slim the slide. Slimmer thru the slide would be better for CCW, but too many changes and it's no longer the M&P we've come to know and love.
Sounds like it could end up somewhat Kahr-ish, but with a Glock/M&P type trigger (non-DAO).
John_Wayne777
11-26-07, 07:21
Sounds like it could end up somewhat Kahr-ish, but with a Glock/M&P type trigger (non-DAO).
Frankly it is about time somebody made a Kahr sized pistol that was actually worth a damn.
More than likely, I'm getting the Walther PPS. Put her through the paces. I just need to find one. I guess I drive or call to Bob's is in order since the closest place around could give two shits about finding one.
.....a Kahr sized pistol that was actually worth a damn.
I owned a couple of the original steel-framed models, the K9 several years ago, and the K40 a little later. Well made and felt good in the hand. Carry-wise, they seemed inordinately heavy for the compact size. Mostly though, I could never get used to the long revolver-like trigger.
The poly-frame versions fix the weight problem but feel really harsh to me, just to pick up as well as to shoot. Tried a buddy's PK40, which about ripped the skin off.:eek: Same trigger as well.
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