Looking for advice for upcoming class carbine

[jeh]

I am looking for some advice on building a rifle from those of you who have taken classes or training. I already have a BCM factory lower and I'm trying to decide between a 14.5" barrel w/ perm. attached FH or comp and 16". Lightweight or normal profile, mid-length or carbine length gas system, especially on the 14.5" barrel. I'm leaning towards the 12" Centurion Arms rail and a T-1 with Troy BUIS. I don't want to put a rifle together, practice before my class and show up an be "that guy".
TIA

[Erocku]

I don't see how anything you've listed here makes you "that guy". I have a 14.5 Mid-Length BCM upper and like it alot.

[MeanStreaker]

I always recognize "that guy" because of his attitude, not so much his equipment.

Apart from your carbine, take an open mind, willingness to learn new things, and respect for everyone. Then you won't be "that guy".

[steelonsteel]

I agree - buy what you like and what appeals to youfor your needs.

The training class is all about taching you stuff - not about appearing to be a tough guy or telling the instructor he's wrong, so as long as you don't do those two things you shoudn't be "that guy".

[jeh]

Thanks for advice guys. I totally agree that attitude is everything. What are the weight differences between lightweight barrels and normal profiles? I'm leaning toward a 16" normal profile mid length gas system just in case I would decide to suppress it in the future. That way I can change out the FH or brake without hassle. I'm planning on running a CTR stock, so I don't want the rifle to be too front heavy and unbalanced.

[Hmac]

I just did a TriCon carbine course....three 10-hour days, 2000 rounds. I was apprehensive about the weight of my Light Recce with VIS, but found that 16 inch rifle to absolutely no problem to manage and not wearing on support shoulder or forearm at all. I'd put barrel weight a little lower on the importance scale, based on that experience.

Wear gloves. My hands took a beating during the first two days of that course. He discouraged the use of gloves, but by the third day I just said **** it and dug out the Mechanixwear.

[seb5]

For a high tempo training class my carbines are generally set up to weigh about 8 lbs. total. That's including SureFire, Aimpoint, sling, and loaded mag. So for me that means a 14.5" LW with Troy tube rail. 1 to 2 lb's adds up after 1500-2000 rounds in three days. Back in the day my first 3 day class I was humping a RRA DEA carbine. That thing had the heaviest profile barrel I'd ever seen.

You accessories list looks good. FWIW the 14.5 LW middie is my favorite configuration. On my latest build I used the same Centurion rail. It adds a few ounces but is still light and handy, like a carbine should be!

[Duffy]

I'm with HMAC, I wear gloves all the time, I learned to do that after the first class I took with Scott Reitz in 2001.

If your lower doesn't have a gapper thingie or a different trigger guard that doesn't leave a gap between the pistol grip and the receiver, you'll appreciate the gloves. Also, you'll be doing lots of administrative and speed reloading, regardless how you do loading/reloading, your hands will see a lot of action.

Then there's the selector on/off, you'll probably have as many selector cycles as trigger cycles.

Many instructors stress the ability to shoot with both sides/hands, so an ambi selector will help (not necessarily one of ours, any ambi selector will do the job ;))

If it's a long course that practices a lot of loading and reloading, which require that you hold the rifle by its pistol grip, a light carbine is invaluable. But I think you shouldn't lighten your carbine just for the class, and put all the accessories back on when it's over. I believe that one should train as he fights. So I lug my heavy carbine with PEQ2 or PEQ14, Surefire M900 to the class and train with it. It's heavy enough by the middle of the day I could hardly lift the rifle to do a mag change by holding its pistol grip. Lesson here is I should lighten the setup altogether, or work on my arm's strength :jester:

[Hmac]

I'm with HMAC, I wear gloves all the time, I learned to do that after the first class I took with Scott Reitz in 2001.



This is the one that got me the worst...from levering the gun up into the workspace for mag changes and reloads, and manipulation of various mags to set up malfunction drills. I tapped-tugged-rolled-racked many times during that course.

http://SSEquine.net/blister.jpg

[Failure2Stop]

I like 14.5 barrels, but the permanent muzzle device will limit the ability to change things as you grow preferences.. The Centurion rail avoids the "can't change the FF HG thing, but it does limit you to those type of rails. It also limits you to the muzzle device you choose initially, which might not be what you will want in 6 months. It makes swapping gas blocks impossible without removing the perm FH and makes cutting the FH down into a low-pro difficult should you want to drop on a longer rail.

You could also go with something like the LMT MRP which causes many of these to be irrelevant, but at the cost of expense and weight.

If you don't mind dealing with the draw-backs of a non-NFA 14.5, rock on, but make an honest assessment of how much difference you will really see by losing just over an inch of barrel against the effort and cost it may levvy later.

[JW1069]

Being in NY, we have to perm attach muzzle brakes anyway so the 14.5" middy profile is my favorite. In your situation, a 16" middy would be perfectly fine, but this is really a personal preference thing.

Lighter is better and I'd give more consideration to the rail than the barrel profile (LW vs. standard). A standard barrel with a MOE handguard is plenty lightweight enough and gives you excellent options for adding a MOE MVG and weapon light. I'll second what Duffy said earlier and that is to train as you'd fight.

My last class I brought two 14.5" middy rifles, one with a DD OmegaX rail and the other with a MOE. The lighter weight MOE setup won out that day. Both rifles are more than capable for any SD/HD scenario and I think the takeaway you can use is that there's more than one correct answer to the question you're asking.

[Ando]

The complete MOE midlength setup is 11.5 oz and the DD Omega X is 11.7 oz......
Was there some other stuff on there to up the weight?