View Full Version : S&W M&P AR's and PMAG's
I recently received in a new batch of M&P AR's. I tested them for fit with the PMAG and all is well! The PMAG's drop free.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/New%2015A%20Magwell.jpg
NCPatrolAR
11-17-07, 08:13
I had a problem with the PMAGs failing to lock up in the MP-15s. Spoke with a guy from Smith on Wed who was at the department and they stated they were reworking the mag catch to eliminate this problem.
He also gave me a rough timeline on the MP45 (commander length) and 14 rnd 45 mags. :)
Robb Jensen
11-17-07, 08:19
I've only seen the older M&P15T models that won't lock a PMAG in them.
I've only seen the older M&P15T models that won't lock a PMAG in them.
I have had standard 15's, 15A's and T's not lock the PMAG in.
C4
KintlaLake
11-17-07, 08:22
...all is well!
Clever. ;)
Any idea when (in terms of serial numbers) S&W made the fix? Maybe S&W isn't saying, but if you've been checking the PMAG's fit on the M&Ps passing through G&R, maybe you have an idea of the last no-go run?
Clever. ;)
Any idea when (in terms of serial numbers) S&W made the fix? Maybe S&W isn't saying, but if you've been checking the PMAG's fit on the M&Ps passing through G&R, maybe you have an idea of the last no-go run?
Don't know for sure at what serial number the issues stopped, but the 15A's have a serial number in the 66XXX range and the 15T's have a serial number in the 65XXX range.
If anyone that has a newer S&W (bought within the last month) can PM or e-mail their serial number, we can get close to when the fix happened.
C4
NCPatrolAR
11-17-07, 08:41
I've only seen the older M&P15T models that won't lock a PMAG in them.
We have a few 15As here that we are doing a T&E on and they wont lock the PMAGs
Robb Jensen
11-17-07, 08:51
Just checked the 3 S&Ws we have on the wall.
M&P15T s/n SW537XX (won't lock with PMAG)
M&P15 w/Troy rear s/n SW577XX (won't lock with PMAG)
M&P15 w/A4 carry handle s/n SW112XX (will lock with PMAG)
KintlaLake
11-17-07, 08:51
I haven't tried a PMAG in my 588XX (July purchase), but I was under the impression that the issue was a tight magwell on the M&P 15. If a re-worked catch is the fix, I'll be interested in knowing if it's a plug'n'play retrofit.
He also gave me a rough timeline on the MP45 (commander length) and 14 rnd 45 mags. :)
SO...what's the timeline on that compact MP45?
NCPatrolAR
11-17-07, 10:15
I was told 2008 for the compact and a month or two for the commander.
I'd be interested to hear more about when this change took place. I have a M&P15 with carry handle that I bought last November, SN SW072XX. I was considering buying some PMags but was hesitating. I had tried a friend's "plastic" magazines marked "Made in Israel" and they would not lock up in my M&P. I didn't want to buy 4 or 5 only to discover they wouldn't fit in my Smith.
I'd be interested to hear more about when this change took place. I have a M&P15 with carry handle that I bought last November, SN SW072XX. I was considering buying some PMags but was hesitating. I had tried a friend's "plastic" magazines marked "Made in Israel" and they would not lock up in my M&P. I didn't want to buy 4 or 5 only to discover they wouldn't fit in my Smith.
From what I can tell, M&P AR's made within the last month are GTG.
C4
Is the problem with Pmags on the inhouse S&W models or did they included the Stag made ones as well?
Has anyone had any problems with the S&W and a Ceiner .22 kit? I finally tried mine out last week with a kit that runs 100% in my other gun and it refused to cycle at all. It would fail to eject on almost every round. It got sold today.
Standard M&P 15 with serial number 033XX locks all four PMAG’s I am using. This is an older model.
My experience has been that S&W warranty repair centers, which are often gunshops with excellent gunsmiths, have access to this type of info and will gladly share it. Of course, it is possible that ar clone repairs are being done only at the Smith factory.
Williejc
dwhitehorne
11-18-07, 15:15
I've got the base M&P 15 purchased in spring of 06 with the CMT staked carrier. The first 4 PMAGS I had worked fine and the 4 I got after the exchange program work fine too. David
I saw on the MP forum there were postings of side by side pics of S&W magwells. The newer ones has a beveled edge on the front of the magwell. Does that have anything to do with the p-mag issue? Mine has the bevel, and it is sn# 51xxx. I ordered one p-mag to try for fit. I'll pass the word about fit and function when I get it. Who knows, I may have a very lightly used p-mag for a karma give away by next week. Then again, if the S&W gods are smiling on me, perhaps I can order 10 p-mags from Mr. Gleason at 44mag.:D
FWIW, if you decide to order 10 PMAGs you can buy them from Grant @ G&R Tactical (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=PMAG) for less.
Thanks Tom for the plug.
C4
I saw on the MP forum there were postings of side by side pics of S&W magwells. The newer ones has a beveled edge on the front of the magwell. Does that have anything to do with the p-mag issue? Mine has the bevel, and it is sn# 51xxx. I ordered one p-mag to try for fit. I'll pass the word about fit and function when I get it. Who knows, I may have a very lightly used p-mag for a karma give away by next week. Then again, if the S&W gods are smiling on me, perhaps I can order 10 p-mags from Mr. Gleason at 44mag.:D
There are several dealers on this forum that contribute. Its better to support our own.
Jeez sorry guys. I didn't intend to pi** in everyone's Wheaties by mentioning a mag supplier. I'll try not to mention names when I buy anything. Thanks for the heads up. Back on topic. So I guess the magwell bevel is not any part of the issue? I guess just wait and try a sample is the only way to be sure. As usual YMMV and JMHO.
The PMAG's didn't fit in mine, either, S/N 582xx. They bottomed out on the front of the magwell. I did just a tiny bit of filing to square up the edge on the front of the mag and it's GTG now. All the other dimensions of the mag and the well seem to be fine, though.
Here's where I did the filing. I don't think it affected anything structurally, but I'll have to beat on it some and see.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c250/truthseeker1106/Gun%20Pics/Img_0095aMedium.jpg
Well i got the sample I ordered today and it does NOT lock in unless you really give it a whack. I'm going to send it back and exchange it for a Cprod SS 20rounder. No sense in having to beat on it to get a fit. They aren't worth that much to me. Of course YMMV and JMHO. :cool:
Kurt Reifert
11-19-07, 16:20
Is the problem with Pmags on the inhouse S&W models or did they included the Stag made ones as well?
The original Stag made S&W M&Ps that I have seen work just fine with the Pmags.
It seems like the problem started when S&W made the switch away from Stag.
If it was me, I wouldn't be filing on the magazines, I'd be filing on the receiver or sending it back to S&W so that it works with any mag.
The problem is the lower, NOT the Pmag.
The original Stag made S&W M&Ps that I have seen work just fine with the Pmags.
It seems like the problem started when S&W made the switch away from Stag.
My Stag lowers work just fine with all 17 of my PMags. I have 5/7, 8/7, and 9/7 dated PMags.
If it was me, I wouldn't be filing on the magazines, I'd be filing on the receiver or sending it back to S&W so that it works with any mag.
The problem is the lower, NOT the Pmag.
A couple of things I'm wondering...
1. How much difference is there between the good lowers and the problem ones?
2. On the good lowers, do the mags fit with plenty of room to spare between the ridge on the mag and the bottom of the well?
Mine is at the point where it locks up and bottoms out on the well pretty much simultaneously. Although it is pretty much a black-and-white issue, i.e. either it's in-spec or not in-spec, I can tolerate it being out a little because it only takes about four quick passes with a file to remove the curve from that surface on that particular type of mag. All other mags so far have fit with zero issues. Other than being in a firefight and having to pick up and use a PMAG that isn't mine, which will probably happen right after I win the lottery and get struck by lightning, I can't really see any big problem with it. However, the answer to #1 will enlighten me, I'm sure... :D
The original Stag made S&W M&Ps that I have seen work just fine with the Pmags.
It seems like the problem started when S&W made the switch away from Stag.
If it was me, I wouldn't be filing on the magazines, I'd be filing on the receiver or sending it back to S&W so that it works with any mag.
The problem is the lower, NOT the Pmag.
Does anyone know about what serial number range this switch occurred?
My 53XXX does not accept PMAGs.
Here's one M&P mag well that won't accept PMAGS, sn55xxx:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4986/oldswmagwelluq9.jpg
notice there is no forward or rear bevel...
Can someone tell me if this is anodized aluminum or just painted? It would only take a few minutes to create the right profile, but creating a finish that will hold up and not cost $100 has got me stymied
Well mine is a 51 and it is beveled and the infamous P-mags do NOT lock into mine so maybe the bevel isn't the thing. :confused:
Well mine is a 51 and it is beveled and the infamous P-mags do NOT lock into mine so maybe the bevel isn't the thing.
Is it beveled, front and rear, just like the one in Grant's first post?
czydl wrote:
Is it beveled, front and rear, just like the one in Grant's first post?
Yes, mine IS beveled both front and rear. I'm not going to worry about it. Every autoloader I own has a brand of mag that won't function correctly and now I know which one fits that category with my S&W. I guess it's better to have found out before I was in a situation where all I had was a P-Mag and REALLY needed to shoot. I have great results with ALL "GI" mag brands so I'll stick with those.:)
czydl wrote:
Yes, mine IS beveled both front and rear.
I understand it doesn't bother you, but if you get a chance, could you please post a picture?
I cannot imagine paying the premium price for a S&W AR and not having it meet the spec enough so that a PMag would function. It makes me wonder if the M&P pistols are also as flaky in fit and function.
I cannot imagine paying the premium price for a S&W AR and not having it meet the spec enough so that a PMag would function. It makes me wonder if the M&P pistols are also as flaky in fit and function.
Actually the S&W line is a pretty fair deal (especially the 15A model). You have to remember that S&W is new to the AR scene and have gone through some growing pains. They also got into bed with a company that didn't do them any favors.
They have learned their lessons I believe (went with LMT BCG's for instance) and appears that their tight mag wells issues are resolved.
To quote Ken Hackathorn: "The M&P Pistol is the future of handguns."
I wouldn't judge their pistols by their AR's.
C4
They also got into bed with a company that didn't do them any favors.
CMT?
To quote Ken Hackathorn: "The M&P Pistol is the future of handguns."
I wouldn't judge their pistols by their AR's.
C4
Roger that!
CMT?
Roger that!
Stag (CMT).
C4
I cannot imagine paying the premium price for a S&W AR and not having it meet the spec enough so that a PMag would function. It makes me wonder if the M&P pistols are also as flaky in fit and function.
Well since EVERY other mag I've tried fits and functions just fine maybe it's the mags not the rifles? I looked at a lot of rifles before I bought my S&W and I picked this one because of the way it works. When the maker of the pmags has been building and selling quality stuff as long as S&W then perhaps their mags will fit all ARs. Until then, I'll use mags that aren't "flaky".:cool:
As always YMMV and JMHO.
Well since EVERY other mag I've tried fits and functions just fine maybe it's the mags not the rifles? I looked at a lot of rifles before I bought my S&W and I picked this one because of the way it works. When the maker of the pmags has been building and selling quality stuff as long as S&W then perhaps their mags will fit all ARs. Until then, I'll use mags that aren't "flaky".:cool:
As always YMMV and JMHO.
Don't buy any USGI mags then, as they are just (if not more) flaky than PMAG's. I have boxes full of USGI mags that will not work for various reasons.
Yes, S&W has been in business for a long time, but they have NOT been making AR's for very long.
C4
When the maker of the pmags has been building and selling quality stuff as long as S&W then perhaps their mags will fit all ARs. Until then, I'll use mags that aren't "flaky".:cool:
As always YMMV and JMHO.
S&W has had a few more flops than Magpul. You can refuse to accept the situation if you want... But I assure you the mags are not the problem.
Well since EVERY other mag I've tried fits and functions just fine maybe it's the mags not the rifles? I looked at a lot of rifles before I bought my S&W and I picked this one because of the way it works. When the maker of the pmags has been building and selling quality stuff as long as S&W then perhaps their mags will fit all ARs. Until then, I'll use mags that aren't "flaky".:cool:
As always YMMV and JMHO.
The lowers ARE out of spec. Period. Just because PMags dont work in an out of spec lower, does not make them flaky.
KintlaLake
11-20-07, 14:41
I own a Smith & Wesson M&P 15, but I don't feel compelled to "defend" either the rifle or the company. (I always get a kick out of that sort of thing. :rolleyes: )
People smarter than I am have judged the M&P 15 to be a good value -- which is a relief, because I bought the damned thing when I was pretty much AR-stoopid. :o More important, it works for me...YMMV.
Those same smart people have judged the PMAG to be a pretty cool deal, and although I haven't tried a PMAG in my M&P 15, there's some question about whether or not the two will play nice together.
Noted. ;)
If my M&P 15 and a PMAG ever happen to be in the same place at the same time, I'll find out if they're compatible. In the meantime, I've got a satchel-full of OKays, NHMTGs and D&Hs -- all with Magpul followers -- that work fine.
As truly cool as the PMAG is -- and I defer to folks who've tortured them as I never will -- I'm not losing sleep, nor am I going to venture an ignorant (in my case) guess about whether fault lies with the rifle, the mag or the phase of the moon. ;)
If a fix becomes available, I'm all ears. Otherwise, moving on...
try as hard as everyone here would like to have me do, I'm not going to throw up my hands, file, cut, and beat my AR to pieces and start bad mouthing S&W over some POS $15 mags that don't fit in all the rifles that they are supposed to. Every other mag I've bought over the years that didn't work in a gun I just toss. I didn't throw away my SiGs, Berettas,and H&Ks, I threw awawy the promags. Same as the pmags as far as I'm cocncerned. I don't know why it is that this $15 mag is assumed by all the "experts" to be solid gold and MY S&W AR is determined by the "experts" here here to be the worst POS ever made. Screw magpul and their POS mags. Their mags don't work in my rifle so they are off MY list. They will come around eventually and start manufacturing mags that fit all ARs as they are supposed to. Me, I'm going to go out and cut one pmag apart to find out if it really is made of gold or horse crap. The other 9 I'm going to send back to magpul; and they said they will do what ever is necessary to make them work in my rifle. As is always the case, YMMV and this is all just my very humble opinion.
try as hard as everyone here would like to have me do, I'm not going to throw up my hands, file, cut, and beat my AR to pieces and start bad mouthing S&W over some POS $15 mags that don't fit in all the rifles that they are supposed to. Every other mag I've bought over the years that didn't work in a gun I just toss. I didn't throw away my SiGs, Berettas,and H&Ks, I threw awawy the promags. Same as the pmags as far as I'm cocncerned. I don't know why it is that this $15 mag is assumed by all the "experts" to be solid gold and MY S&W AR is determined by the "experts" here here to be the worst POS ever made. Screw magpul and their POS mags. Their mags don't work in my rifle so they are off MY list. They will come around eventually and start manufacturing mags that fit all ARs as they are supposed to. Me, I'm going to go out and cut one pmag apart to find out if it really is made of gold or horse crap. The other 9 I'm going to send back to magpul; and they said they will do what ever is necessary to make them work in my rifle. As is always the case, YMMV and this is all just my very humble opinion.
I think you have ASSumped many things incorrectly. Let's start a list:
1. The S&W M&P AR is a good rifle and no one has called them junk.
2. No one is telling you to file/alter your AR.
3. PMAG's are not the same as a PROMAG.
4. PMAG's are not a POS.
5. Magpul is a reputable company that puts out fantastic products. No need to "screw them."
Let's face some facts. PMAG's work in every AR out there to include the new production M&P's. This should tell you that it is NOT the PMAG and is an issue with the M&P AR.
If the PMAG's don't work in your weapon, then fine. Simply stick with USGI mags. Problem solved. Just don't try and thow the PMAG under the bus as it is NOT the mags fault.
Did I also mention that I am a S&W certified M&P AR armorer and LE Dealer?? Believe me when I say that I have had LONG conversations with S&W and their armorers about this issue.
C4
KintlaLake
11-20-07, 16:31
The opinions (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=96661&postcount=45) expressed by chuckles don't necessarily reflect those of other S&W M&P 15 owners...
:rolleyes:
Gawd.
Thanks for pouncing, Grant. ;) Well thwacked.
dwhitehorne
11-20-07, 16:37
chuckles, my M&P 15 serial # SW07210 takes pmags just fine but the front sight post is adjusted up over the protective ears to zero it at 50 yards. If you want to get rid of some of the pmags real cheap let me know. :D David
Grant your points pretty well cover it, though I think you left a few off personally. I'll withhold those points for the sake of the thread.
Reading comprehension is still a lost art though it appears.
chuckles, my M&P 15 serial # SW07210 takes pmags just fine but the front sight post is adjusted up over the protective ears to zero it at 50 yards. If you want to get rid of some of the pmags real cheap let me know. :D David
Well I'm sure there is a certified S&W armorer around to help with that front sight. Just wait and someone may show up. I never heard the front sight issue. Is that something else to worry about? That's another S&W "Mark of Excellence"? I cut one pmag in half to see about the gold vs horse crap thing and it looks a lot closer to horse crap than gold but then again it's a magazine not a religous icon, or is it? The rest get sent back. I thought doing a karma and giving them away but with the almost mystical reverence they seem inspire, it might get in the way of common sense to have them offered for free. Don't want to cloud any thwacking frenzy with freebies. Good luck with your sight, that really does suck.
Well I'm sure there is a certified S&W armorer around to help with that front sight. Just wait and someone may show up. I never heard the front sight issue. Is that something else to worry about? That's another S&W "Mark of Excellence"? I cut one pmag in half to see about the gold vs horse crap thing and it looks a lot closer to horse crap than gold but then again it's a magazine not a religous icon, or is it? The rest get sent back. I thought doing a karma and giving them away but with the almost mystical reverence they seem inspire, it might get in the way of common sense to have them offered for free. Don't want to cloud any thwacking frenzy with freebies. Good luck with your sight, that really does suck.
Just so you don't go off the deep end (again) about the FSB comment, this issue can be caused by several things:
1. Front Sight Tower is too low
2. Rear BUIS is made by ARMS
Onto your cutting the PMAGS in half. Can I ask what you expected to see and or learn from this??? Have you ever cut a USGI mag in half??? Did it shatter your world when you did?
People really like the PMAG because it represents a step forward in a more reliable magazine design. No one worships the mag or thinks its made out of Gold.
Remember that the majority of all malfunctions in the AR platform are the result of crappy mags. So any upgrade to the magazine is a VERY good thing in many people eyes.
The PMAG is not for you and you should just leave the subject alone.
C4
Believe me when I say that I have had LONG conversations with S&W and their armorers about this issue.
C4
Do you mind if I give you a call to chat about this?
Do you mind if I give you a call to chat about this?
Sure. Will be in the office 9-5 EST tomorrow.
C4
Just so you don't go off the deep end (again) about the FSB comment, this issue can be caused by several things:
Onto your cutting the PMAGS in half. Can I ask what you expected to see and or learn from this??? Have you ever cut a USGI mag in half??? Did it shatter your world when you did?
People really like the PMAG because it represents a step forward in a more reliable magazine design. No one worships the mag or thinks its made out of Gold.
Remember that the majority of all malfunctions in the AR platform are the result of crappy mags. So any upgrade to the magazine is a VERY good thing in many people eyes.
The PMAG is not for you and you should just leave the subject alone.
C4
What I expected to see is a gold nugget or some other reason why people here seem to hold a $15 mag in much higher esteem than S&W. I didn't find a gold nugget so I guess the almost mystical attraction is elsewhwhere. To suggest that this pmag represents a step forward in RELIABILITY seems somewhat ludicrous to me. They are a step into the promag world that I have already visited and found lacking. I don't want you to think I don't value your opinion as a Certified S&W Armorer and LE specialist but Just because I choose not to imbibe from the collective kool-aid barrel does not necessarily mean I have gone off the deep end, and have ASSumped so many things in error, as you so personally put it. Can't anyone discuss a subject without resorting to personal attacks? Is a personal attack necessary for you to try to minimize my ability and my knowledge while enhancing your expertise in all things S&W AR? I don't recall anyone but you trying to make personal attacks. Just your knowledgable, opinion would get your point across without any ranting and name calling. No one is going to listen to anything you say if they are called an ASS or accused of going off the deep end. It just doesn't bring out the best in people. To say the propmags are not for me and that I should leave the whole issue alone is probably the best advice you've made on the subject. So I will move-on as it seems the posts have turned personal. Thanks for the Blue-Force sling and other small parts I ordered from you last week. Good stuff, good price and good service. Thanks.
Chuckles, what part of your lower not being made exactly to spec do you not undestand??? Its a known fact that a certain range of S&W lowers, are out of spec in the mag well area. It is what it is.
How long have you been dealing with AR's? How long have you been dealing with AR mags? Mags have been the #1 issue with AR's for years. Current GI mags are good. PMags are better. People whose lives are staked on them have tested and tried them, and rely on them. Trying to explain some of this to you is like talking to a child. Proven so by your cutting up a PMag just because you've been told something you dont want to hear. Its freaking childish.
No one is saying M&P AR's are no good. Quite the contrary. It doesnt change the fact, that they have some lowers that are slightly out of spec.
What I expected to see is a gold nugget or some other reason why people here seem to hold a $15 mag in much higher esteem than S&W. I didn't find a gold nugget so I guess the almost mystical attraction is elsewhwhere. To suggest that this pmag represents a step forward in RELIABILITY seems somewhat ludicrous to me. They are a step into the promag world that I have already visited and found lacking. I don't want you to think I don't value your opinion as a Certified S&W Armorer and LE specialist but Just because I choose not to imbibe from the collective kool-aid barrel does not necessarily mean I have gone off the deep end, and have ASSumped so many things in error, as you so personally put it. Can't anyone discuss a subject without resorting to personal attacks? Is a personal attack necessary for you to try to minimize my ability and my knowledge while enhancing your expertise in all things S&W AR? I don't recall anyone but you trying to make personal attacks. Just your knowledgable, opinion would get your point across without any ranting and name calling. No one is going to listen to anything you say if they are called an ASS or accused of going off the deep end. It just doesn't bring out the best in people. To say the propmags are not for me and that I should leave the whole issue alone is probably the best advice you've made on the subject. So I will move-on as it seems the posts have turned personal. Thanks for the Blue-Force sling and other small parts I ordered from you last week. Good stuff, good price and good service. Thanks.
You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower!You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower!You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower! You have a OUT OF SPEC lower!
What I expected to see is a gold nugget or some other reason why people here seem to hold a $15 mag in much higher esteem than S&W.
Please point out where anyone has held the PMAG above the S&W M&P AR. I am not even sure I understand what your trying to say. Is it that people believe that the S&W AR is at fault and not the PMAG for the improper fit issues? If so, I have explained that S&W FULLY recognizes that it is their issue to deal with and NOT Magpul.
I didn't find a gold nugget so I guess the almost mystical attraction is elsewhwhere. To suggest that this pmag represents a step forward in RELIABILITY seems somewhat ludicrous to me. They are a step into the promag world that I have already visited and found lacking.
Interesting that you would associate the PMAG with the PROMAG. Can you tell me how the mags are similar? Is it the materials used? How bout the follower? Strength? Durability?
I don't want you to think I don't value your opinion as a Certified S&W Armorer and LE specialist but Just because I choose not to imbibe from the collective kool-aid barrel does not necessarily mean I have gone off the deep end, and have ASSumped so many things in error, as you so personally put it.
I don't want you to think that I care about what you think, but can I ask you how many AR's you have owned and how long you have been shooting them? I am sure there is some reason why you believe that you know more about this issue than I do (even though I am a S&W LE dealer and Magpul Master Distr and have talked to both companies at length on this issue) so please do give your insider information on what is going on.
Can't anyone discuss a subject without resorting to personal attacks?
Is a personal attack necessary for you to try to minimize my ability and my knowledge while enhancing your expertise in all things S&W AR? I don't recall anyone but you trying to make personal attacks.
Sure can. No one has made ANY personal attacks towards you. You did try and put down Magpul and were called on it, but that is about it.
If disagreeing with your POV is classified as a "personal attack" then I would suggest growing some thicker skin.
Just your knowledgable, opinion would get your point across without any ranting and name calling. No one is going to listen to anything you say if they are called an ASS or accused of going off the deep end.
Again, no one called you an ASS. You made some assumptions that you cannot defend or back up. If you can, please do. We are all eager to read what you have to say.
It just doesn't bring out the best in people. To say the propmags are not for me and that I should leave the whole issue alone is probably the best advice you've made on the subject. So I will move-on as it seems the posts have turned personal. Thanks for the Blue-Force sling and other small parts I ordered from you last week. Good stuff, good price and good service. Thanks.
Trying to spread false information doesn't do anyone any favors either. Throwing Magpul under the bus for something they never did is unfair to them. They are a good company that strives to provide high quality gear at a fair price.
C4
Is there a specific person at S&W who is intimate with this issue or will just any customer service person do?
I for one think the PMAG is a high quality product and I'd really like them to drop right in the rifle without any issues so I can buy 10 more. I need some guidance on the problem before I start packing up my lower, though.
Is there a specific person at S&W who is intimate with this issue or will just any customer service person do?
I for one think the PMAG is a high quality product and I'd really like them to drop right in the rifle without any issues so I can buy 10 more. I need some guidance on the problem before I start packing up my lower, though.
To be honest, I am not sure what S&W would say and or do. Give them a call.
C4
To be honest, I am not sure what S&W would say and or do. Give them a call.
C4
I called them on Monday and I'm still waiting for a callback regarding this issue. Bottom line, for me, if the worst happens, I don't want someone handing me a mag to save a life and it doesn't fit in my carbine. That is NOT acceptable.
Either S&W will take care of the issue or I will.
I'm starting to think shiny silver accents on the bottom of my mag well wouldn't look so bad, after all.... (goes looking for dremel)
:D :D
I don't know why everyone is fired up about the S&W not running a certain aftermarket mag. It's the S&W not running a certain aftermarket .22 kit which is of real concern.:cool:
(goes looking for dremel) :D :D
I'm thinking a flat file... :cool:
Which manufacturer are you referring to? I've been considering a M&P-15A with a Ciener 22LR conversion kit. :confused:
I have a Ciener that is 100% in two different guns but wouldn't run at all in my S&W. It appeared the mag was in a different position as opposed to the other lowers. This could be an isolated incident since I haven't heard any other problems with other S&W and Ciener combos. I think a new thread needs to be started.
Stag (CMT).
C4
Could you elaborate at all, Grant? (As I understand it, CMT is doing (has done) alot of work for several second tier manufacturers.) Is S&W now doing receivers in house?
Most of my AR is RRA (which I believe was done by CMT to a great extent as they are 2004 vintage) except for the lower which is Stag (FCG and stock are RRA). I have two Stag lowers and one upper which has a Stag flattop upper receiver which replaced the RRA A2 style upper receiver. The first Stag lower had issues with being too tight in the rear take down area so that the upper receiver fit very tight. The second lower did not have this issue. However, both of these lowers accept the PMag just fine.
I'm thinking a flat file... :cool:
Noted.... (puts down dremel just in time)
:D
This will now take an off-the-shelf pmag...
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3969/pmagfixedwelltd4.jpg
I may or may not take the corners down on the front of the mag well. I figure I can always take more off, ya can't put it back on!
Liquid Rhino
11-29-07, 14:46
My M&P (s/n 602xx) accepts & drops free PMAG's. They do sometimes require a light 'tap' to lock them in properly though. USGI's seem to load & drop MUCH smoother though.
I purchased my first PMag at a gunshow this morning. After what I have read here and other places I was pleasantly suprised when it locked up just fine in my Smith M&P15. I could not detect any problems at all. My rifle is SN. 072xx.
I haven't shot it yet but plan to soon.
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