Federal American Eagle Tactical XM193 Problems

[Nightgunner]

Now I realize that these are reloads, and as such buyer beware. That being said, for many years I have been a fanboy of Federal ammunition.

The ammo in question was purchased in the early Spring and only touched today while loading mags. The original idea was to load 7 of my mags with this 200rd Value Pack serial number SMQ09H037-361, but that didn't quite happen.

While loading the 2nd mag, I started to find casings so deformed I cannot imagine how they got past the QC. These pictures are of the 38 rounds that are in no way safe to use.

In fairness, I have contacted Federal and am awaiting a reply. I asked for replacement ammo so I may complete my task of loading mags. I will post their reply once I receive it (Could be a couple of days).

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011057a.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056c.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056b.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056a.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/1010011056d.jpg

[Iraqgunz]

Since when did Federal start selling XM193 reloads?


Now I realize that these are reloads, and as such buyer beware. That being said, for many years I have been a fanboy of Federal ammunition.

The ammo in question was purchased in the early Spring and only touched today while loading mags. The original idea was to load 7 of my mags with this 200rd Value Pack serial number SMQ09H037-361, but that didn't quite happen.

While loading the 2nd mag, I started to find casings so deformed I cannot imagine how they got past the QC. These pictures are of the 38 rounds that are in no way safe to use.

In fairness, I have contacted Federal and am awaiting a reply. I asked for replacement ammo so I may complete my task of loading mags. I will post their reply once I receive it (Could be a couple of days).

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011057a.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056c.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056b.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/downsized_1010011056a.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/nightgunner01/1010011056d.jpg

[BCmJUnKie]

Wow.

I run across casing that look like that every once in awhile.

Thats ridiculous. There is no way there should be that many in one case.

[Nightgunner]

I don't know when it started, but till now I have never had a problem. What I have all has a Lake City '09 Head stamp on it.

A decent amount of reputable retailers are selling it. I bought mine at Rocky Mtn. Discount Sports in Casper, WY. but it is being sold online a bit.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/178.php

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/549452/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-55-grain-xm193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-20

[Titleist]

I once got some Federal XM193BK that direct from the factory had about a dozen rounds that looked like the letter L. Just totally bent.

I guess it's marked X for a reason.

[simple1]

I don't know when it started, but till now I have never had a problem. What I have all has a Lake City '09 Head stamp on it.

A decent amount of reputable retailers are selling it. I bought mine at Rocky Mtn. Discount Sports in Casper, WY. but it is being sold online a bit.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/178.php

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/549452/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-55-grain-xm193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-20

Not sure why you thought these were reloads but I imagine it is new ammo.

And neither of the links you posted are for reloads.

Let us know what Federal says.

[Belmont31R]

I once got some Federal XM193BK that direct from the factory had about a dozen rounds that looked like the letter L. Just totally bent.

I guess it's marked X for a reason.




XM193 is commercial production ammo meant for commercial sales. Its not 'rejected' military ammunition.

[Nightgunner]

Are Federal and Lake City one and the same? Seeing the LC head stamp on the brass is why I went into the "Reloads" mode. I do have some other stuff I picked up along the way also with a LC Head Stamp that was advertised as reloads that I use for plinking when bored.

If this is indeed new production, that almost makes it worse as some of the marks look identical as when a rifle suffers from a FTE.

[simple1]

XM193 is commercial production ammo meant for commercial sales. Its not 'rejected' military ammunition.

That is correct.

From http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/xm193.aspx

• XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition.

• All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.

[Belmont31R]

Are Federal and Lake City one and the same? Seeing the LC head stamp on the brass is why I went into the "Reloads" mode. I do have some other stuff I picked up along the way also with a LC Head Stamp that was advertised as reloads that I use for plinking when bored.

If this is indeed new production, that almost makes it worse as some of the marks look identical as when a rifle suffers from a FTE.




Lake City is a military ammunition plant that ATK has the contract to operate.


http://www.examiner.net/newsnow/x848576556/ATK-receives-30-million-contract-to-make-rounds-at-Lake-City

[simple1]

Are Federal and Lake City one and the same? Seeing the LC head stamp on the brass is why I went into the "Reloads" mode. I do have some other stuff I picked up along the way also with a LC Head Stamp that was advertised as reloads that I use for plinking when bored.

If this is indeed new production, that almost makes it worse as some of the marks look identical as when a rifle suffers from a FTE.

Nightgunner,

Federal is owned by ATK. Lake City Ammunition plant is owned by the government but operated by ATK.

As least that's my recollection

[Nightgunner]

Nightgunner,

Federal is owned by ATK. Lake City Ammunition plant is owned by the government but operated by ATK.

As least that's my recollection

Ok, that makes sense. So the issue may not be that it is a reloaded torn up brass. Instead it may be the worst excuse for QC in a very long time.

I will wait to see what they say, I am expecting them to make it right though.

I guess it is a lesson to check what we have in storage, and when we buy in bulk inspect as close as possible.

[markm]

Yes. New ammo. They don't produce reman ammo.

It's just piss poor quality ammo. I wouldn't be buying this stuff at all. The AE223 ammo is a much better quality practice load.

I'd shoot the dented ammo as long as it passed a headspace guage. It'll just fire form all the dents out. But I can appreciate letting those goobers see what's coming off the line too. :rolleyes:

[Nightgunner]

Yes. New ammo. They don't produce reman ammo.

It's just piss poor quality ammo. I wouldn't be buying this stuff at all. The AE223 ammo is a much better quality practice load.

I'd shoot the dented ammo as long as it passed a headspace guage. It'll just fire form all the dents out. But I can appreciate letting those goobers see what's coming off the line too. :rolleyes:

The AE223 is what I normally get for the range, I just picked this up on sale for around $69/200 if I remember correctly.

I have it all separated for now as I don't have a headspace gauge at this time.

[Nightgunner]

Follow up...

It has been over a week and no response from Federal. I have even made phone calls, but as of yet nothing.

[Robb Jensen]

I'm always suspect of lose ammo in boxes, did it make it through the machinery? I've always found that the best XM193 comes on stripper clips.

[Nightgunner]

Kinda frustrating. I have been a big fan of theirs for years, and shot more of their ammo than I can count. I would expect problems like this from Wolf, but in all honesty, I have had more success with Wolf than federal as of late.

[lifebreath]

That's from being crushed during shipping. The casings compress against each other and create the creases. You can see the box in the picture shows signs of having been compressed.

[jmreagan]

OP, whether thats the results from shipping or QA/QC that is unacceptable. I have a pile of XM193 Federal ammo with the LC headstamp. It came packaged in brown boxes 20 rounds to a box. It's not the prettiest or most shiney cases but virtually no dents are in the boxes I've inspected. And btw, you can get much better deals on ammo from Palmetto State Armory than the $69 per 200 rounds you paid for that mangled ammo. Last I seen was XM193 for $5.69/box of 20.

[Iraqgunz]

I have never had an issue with M193 looking like that before. I have also purchased thousands and thousands of rounds of M855 in loose form as well.

[Nightgunner]

Well I have been talking to Federal. I am shipping the bad ammo back to them. They have offered to refund for the bad rds, and even reimburse the return shipping.

Federal is still GTG in my book. I will not let this hinder my buying from them again in the future.

[lifebreath]

Well don't believe me but it's true. I've seen it before but not to that degree. I've only seen it in the boxes of 100 that come packed 5 boxes to a small corrugated case of 500 rounds. The containers will show signs of compression and the damaged rounds will correlate in position to the box damage, mainly along the outer rows of rounds.

I've never seen the damage in bulk loose rounds, stripper clipped rounds, boxes of 20, etc. because these forms of packaging won't compress in the same manner, even with rough handling.

Fwiw.

[Suwannee Tim]

There is no way this ammo left Federal in this condition. I think lifebreath is correct, damage from rough handling. I think Federal will make it good, not because it's their fault but to keep the customer happy.