View Full Version : Leupold 1X14mm Prism Sight Dot
No Bananas
10-10-11, 12:28
Anybody know what size the center dot is on the Leupold 1x14 prism sight dot?
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/prismatic-riflescope/prismatic-1x14mm-tactical-illum-reticle/
No I don't, but I don't think these sights are that great an option. All you have to do is read the basic info on how the optic works to realize that, for a close-range sight on a fighting rifle, these have their limits. I would suggest looking closer at an Aimpoint, say a T1 or an H1. :-)
See threads on the Leupold Prismatic and limitations:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7996
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16510
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56754
Sprocketeer
10-11-11, 10:19
No I don't, but I don't think these sights are that great an option. All you have to do is read the basic info on how the optic works to realize that, for a close-range sight on a fighting rifle, these have their limits. I would suggest looking closer at an Aimpoint, say a T1 or an H1. :-)
See threads on the Leupold Prismatic and limitations:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7996
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16510
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56754
That is a valid opinion but clearly not an answer to the question the OP asked.
I looked but have not been able to find a spec published by Leupold in regards to your question. I have owned both a Prismatic and an Aimpoint 2 MOA sight and I would "estimate" the dot to be 2-3 MOA.
My $.02
Should be 2MOA, or thereabout. Trying to check with a guy who should be at AUSA this week.
OK, good point I should have addressed the OP's question.
In the Sigforums (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/8870016162) a poster who claims to have run the Prismatic "in an FBI SWAT course," says that the central dot is 6 MOA. And another thread on TOS (http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=514111), the poster claims the same thing: 6 MOA. Off the cuff, just looking at them on display in stores, I wouldn't have thought 6 MOA either. So I'm not really confident in that info. I can't find any official info about the Leupold reticle dot size. Suggestion: call Leupold support, I own a couple of Leupolds and they are great about answering questions like that.
800-538-7653
FWIW: I still wouldn't recommend the Prismatic. Just trying to save you a few $$. :)
According to a thread on another competition oriented forum, the circle plex reticle dot is 6.3 moa, the DCD dot is 3 moa. There are some pretty high level shooters using them in 3-gun.
There are some pretty high level shooters using them in 3-gun.
Respectfully, something being used for 3-gun is not necessarily a justification, especially since the OP didn't specify that as his main usage. For generic posts on this forum, the working assumption and context is that your usage of an optic includes defensive use. And for defensive use, you'll find the Prismatic optic is not super highly thought-of (see comments in the threads I posted). The main objectives to it have been, from the perspective of defensive use:
15 hours of battery life.
Reticle not daylight visible.
Two settings for the reticle: ON and OFF.
Add to the above the cost of the unit, and it's not very compelling for defensive use IMO, given other options available. At SWFA.com, the Prismatic tactical version is running $500, which is what I paid for my T1 on sale recently at Midway. Of course, ordinarily T1's are over $600, but with Prismatics running as high as they are, doesn't seem like much of a stretch to just get a T1 which addresses the above issues and then some, and be done with it.
Don't mean to offend if somebody is really excited about this sight, but it's good to think about these issues before you buy.
The OP asked a question and I answered it and offered no opinions on this sight as I've never seen one. I guess I'll slink back to where I belong...in the competition forum. My apologies.
Sprocketeer
10-11-11, 19:37
Respectfully, something being used for 3-gun is not necessarily a justification, especially since the OP didn't specify that as his main usage. For generic posts on this forum, the working assumption and context is that your usage of an optic includes defensive use. And for defensive use, you'll find the Prismatic optic is not super highly thought-of (see comments in the threads I posted). The main objectives to it have been, from the perspective of defensive use:
15 hours of battery life.
Reticle not daylight visible.
Two settings for the reticle: ON and OFF.
Add to the above the cost of the unit, and it's not very compelling for defensive use IMO, given other options available. At SWFA.com, the Prismatic tactical version is running $500, which is what I paid for my T1 on sale recently at Midway. Of course, ordinarily T1's are over $600, but with Prismatics running as high as they are, doesn't seem like much of a stretch to just get a T1 which addresses the above issues and then some, and be done with it.
Don't mean to offend if somebody is really excited about this sight, but it's good to think about these issues before you buy.
You obviously have a very strong opinion about the prismatic. I have owned one and although I don't have one anymore, I found it to be a competent optic.
Let me make a few corrections:
The reticle is etched into the glass and is absolutely daylight visible.
The reticle has at least 6-7 brightness settings. Once the brightness setting is set, if you turn it off and turn it back on again, it returns to the last set setting.(that is a lot of settings ;).
The battery life is poor but the 15 hour life is at the brightest setting. I think the lowest setting is about 3 days.
No need to slink off. :-) It's a discussion, and the OP has got a tentative answer on the dot size, plus the suggestion to call Leupold and confirm. I just think that, having looked through these scopes and researched them a bit, it's a good idea to consider other options before you buy.
I have owned one and although I don't have one anymore, I found it to be a competent optic. [snip]. The reticle is etched into the glass and is absolutely daylight visible. The reticle has at least 6-7 brightness settings. [snip]
Competent for WHAT? What were you using it for?
I realize the reticle is etched, but the LIT reticle is not daylight visible, which for defensive use, limits its effectiveness. Also, I realize it had multiple brightness settings, but the complaint of only 2 settings (on or off) I think means that it does not have on/off settings BETWEEN the brightness settings. It only has one off setting, and then all the brightness settings. Typically, people want their optic to have multiple on/off settings between each brightness setting, so that it's easy to turn the optic off without having to cycle back through all the settings, and making it easy to turn it back on where you want it. For instance, the new Leupold 1.5-5x MR/T for instance, does have these multi on/off settings between the brightness levels.
As for battery life, compare maybe 3 days for the lowest setting for the Prismatic, to the Aimpoint sights where you have like 5 YEARS of battery of battery life. It's kind of a no-brainer on a defensive gun where you want a red-dot optic, at least IMO.
Sprocketeer
10-11-11, 20:06
I think I will join highxj in the competition forum.
Well, best wishes, sorry you feel that way. I can't think you'll enjoy your time much on the forum or get much benefit if you run off whenever someone disagrees with you or sees the facts differently. That does happen here. Personally I am still learning stuff from folks on this forum that are more experienced with AR platform (and optics) than I am, so I just try to not take it personally and keep an open mind when somebody disagrees or whatever.
Competent for WHAT? What were you using it for?
I realize the reticle is etched, but the LIT reticle is not daylight visible, which for defensive use, limits its effectiveness. Also, I realize it had multiple brightness settings, but the complaint of only 2 settings (on or off) I think means that it does not have on/off settings BETWEEN the brightness settings. It only has one off setting, and then all the brightness settings. Typically, people want their optic to have multiple on/off settings between each brightness setting, so that it's easy to turn the optic off without having to cycle back through all the settings, and making it easy to turn it back on where you want it. For instance, the new Leupold 1.5-5x MR/T for instance, does have these multi on/off settings between the brightness levels.
As for battery life, compare maybe 3 days for the lowest setting for the Prismatic, to the Aimpoint sights where you have like 5 YEARS of battery of battery life. It's kind of a no-brainer on a defensive gun where you want a red-dot optic, at least IMO.
This argument makes me scratch my head. The Leupold has independednt ON/OFF and intensity settings if I'm not mistaken. Use the ON/OFF button like on a white light, and then rotate knurled ring to adjust instensity. So whether you are talking T-1 vs Prismatic, it takes a single action to power unit on, and it takes a rotation action to adjust intensity once on.
There is no fundamental difference, other than with T-1, you can power on either one level up or one level down depending upon which direction you rotate the switch, assuming you remember at what level it was when you powered it down. On a Prismatic, if you decide once it's powered on and you need to go either a level up or down, it takes another action. Like a .25 second additional step.
If you view the power up action as a negative, the T-1 has the ability of just leaving it on all the time due to the long battery life, but you still may need to adjust the intensity based on lighting conditions, so it's not always gauranteed to be "hands-free".
Not sure if the literature is still available on Leupold's website, but a couple of years ago when I was researching these, they published a separate Tactical Products catalog, and I distinctly remember that the dot size documented in the reticule dimensions appendix was 6 MOA. Being etched, there is no blooming, so maybe a 6 MOA etched reticule looks the same as a projected 4 MOA reticule, I dunno.
I would not consider a Prismatic an all-around optic, but for home defense where ranges are across the room-to-50 yards or so, I could see it serving quite well. The glass and reticule are crystal clear sharp, so if projected reticule red dots (Aimpoint/Eotechs) give you difficulty due to eyesight issues, I recommend you take a gander at a Prismatic if one is available and weigh the benefits of clearer glass to the lower battery life, eye relief requirements/limitations, and busier reticule design.
I believe I've read in other threads that at low intensity setting, tested/demonstrated battery life is closer to a couple of weeks, but I'm not as certain on that point as I am on the dot subtension size. For low light operations, this is the setting/range at which you would adjust the intensity. Only during bright daylight in a high-reflective environment would you need the max intensity setting.
ETA: Current 2011 Leupold Tactical catalog lists dot subtends 6.3" at 100 yards
http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2011_Leupold%20Tactical%20Catalog.pdf
Jmart, seems like OP's main question is settled. He started out asking about the MOA of the reticle dot, and I gave him links given to two actual users who said it was 6 MOA, and suggested he confirm that with Leupold. Your link to the Leupy catalog confirms the dot is 6 MOA (6.3, exactly). So I think we're g2g on the OP.
Here are my only other thoughts on the comparative stuff about the Aimpoint T1 and the Prismatic.
* The illumination module. See the pic below on the SWFA page, my recollection from examining the Prismatic in a shop a couple years ago is that the illumination module has ONLY that topside on-off button, and then you have to twist the knurled knob separately to change the brightness settings. There are NO on-off settings on the knob itself, between the brightness settings. To change brightness, you have to cycle through the brightness settings on the knob. But to turn the illum on, the on-off action has to be done separately by pushing the topside button. Maybe I'm not explaining clearly, or correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my recollection of how this sight works when I examined it in a store (yes I was interested in it too, at one point). In contrast, on the Aimpoint and similar sights (including the Leupold Mr/T 1.5-5, which I own), you have a single integrated illumination control, with on-off settings between each brightness setting. Bottom line, you have to work two separate controls on the Prismatic, and just one integrated control on the T1. On the T1 you can cycle your brightness and turn it on/off from the same control. Not a huge deal, maybe not even a "decision-breaker" item between these two sights. But for me, and I think for some guys in the threads I linked to, the integrated control is much preferable. It's giving you multiple functions with limited movement, and quickest access to all your settings. But, YMMV. This item is honestly relatively minor in deciding between the sights. The following two items are more important.
See link on SWFA for a picture of the Prismatic with illumination module installed:
http://swfa.com/Leupold-1x14-Prismatic-30mm-Riflescope-P10947.aspx
* The battery life. Let's compare max life on lowest settings, for consistency. The Prismatic has, let's say for argument, somewhere between the 15 hours we've heard and the 2 weeks that you mentioned. But the T1, by any estimation, runs for YEARS--up to 5 years--on the lowest setting. For me, this is a HUGE practical difference because it means that, if you leave your sight on (whether accidentally, or intentionally), the odds of having a dead battery on the T1 are much lower. On a home defense rifle, IMO, this seems like a huge advantage. For example, you can just leave your sight on at a low-light setting.
* The daylight visible reticle. This one is also important. I own the T1, and it is definitely daylight-visible. I have looked through the Prismatic, and its lit reticle washes out in bright light. Yes you can acquire it using the "etched glass" black reticle, but I am sure that it would be slower. IMO, again, this is a big advantage to the T1, that it's lit reticle can be easily acquired at ANY time in low light or daylight.
For the record, I do NOT think the Prismatic is a horrible sight, that it's not worth buying, or that you couldn't use it for home defense. I don't recall saying anything like that, but only that it's not that "compelling" or not that "great an option" if you compare to the T1. Really, my ONLY point in bringing this up was: If you're going to spend $450 to $600 for an RDS sight anyway, why not consider the one that gives you the best feature set adding up to a tactical advantage? I wish someone had told me about the comparative advantages of the Aimpoint sights when I bought my first couple RDS's. Not that I am some kind of operator now either: I'm just an average civilian using my rifles for a combination of fun, training, and home defense. But even for users like us the T1 offers advantages, not to mention the real HSLD guys out there.
Anyone who wants the Prismatic should buy it, it's your money. My point was only that I would personally recommend the T1 because it gives you enhanced features that add up to a tactical advantage. If you take a poll among the optics users on this forum (maybe there already is such a poll), I bet a nickel you'll find a strong preference for the T1 over the Prismatic for all-around defensive use (including home defense). If somebody still wants to get the Prismatic after looking at pros/cons, then it's their money. Just think it through.
Jmart, seems like OP's main question is settled. He started out asking about the MOA of the reticle dot, and I gave him links given to two actual users who said it was 6 MOA, and suggested he confirm that with Leupold. Your link to the Leupy catalog confirms the dot is 6 MOA (6.3, exactly). So I think we're g2g on the OP.
Here are my only other thoughts on the comparative stuff about the Aimpoint T1 and the Prismatic.
* The illumination module. See the pic below on the SWFA page, my recollection from examining the Prismatic in a shop a couple years ago is that the illumination module has ONLY that topside on-off button, and then you have to twist the knurled knob separately to change the brightness settings. There are NO on-off settings on the knob itself, between the brightness settings. To change brightness, you have to cycle through the brightness settings on the knob. But to turn the illum on, the on-off action has to be done separately by pushing the topside button. Maybe I'm not explaining clearly, or correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my recollection of how this sight works when I examined it in a store (yes I was interested in it too, at one point). In contrast, on the Aimpoint and similar sights (including the Leupold Mr/T 1.5-5, which I own), you have a single integrated illumination control, with on-off settings between each brightness setting. Bottom line, you have to work two separate controls on the Prismatic, and just one integrated control on the T1. On the T1 you can cycle your brightness and turn it on/off from the same control. Not a huge deal, maybe not even a "decision-breaker" item between these two sights. But for me, and I think for some guys in the threads I linked to, the integrated control is much preferable. It's giving you multiple functions with limited movement, and quickest access to all your settings. But, YMMV. This item is honestly relatively minor in deciding between the sights. The following two items are more important.
See link on SWFA for a picture of the Prismatic with illumination module installed:
http://swfa.com/Leupold-1x14-Prismatic-30mm-Riflescope-P10947.aspx
* The battery life. Let's compare max life on lowest settings, for consistency. The Prismatic has, let's say for argument, somewhere between the 15 hours we've heard and the 2 weeks that you mentioned. But the T1, by any estimation, runs for YEARS--up to 5 years--on the lowest setting. For me, this is a HUGE practical difference because it means that, if you leave your sight on (whether accidentally, or intentionally), the odds of having a dead battery on the T1 are much lower. On a home defense rifle, IMO, this seems like a huge advantage. For example, you can just leave your sight on at a low-light setting.
* The daylight visible reticle. This one is also important. I own the T1, and it is definitely daylight-visible. I have looked through the Prismatic, and its lit reticle washes out in bright light. Yes you can acquire it using the "etched glass" black reticle, but I am sure that it would be slower. IMO, again, this is a big advantage to the T1, that it's lit reticle can be easily acquired at ANY time in low light or daylight.
For the record, I do NOT think the Prismatic is a horrible sight, that it's not worth buying, or that you couldn't use it for home defense. I don't recall saying anything like that, but only that it's not that "compelling" or not that "great an option" if you compare to the T1. Really, my ONLY point in bringing this up was: If you're going to spend $450 to $600 for an RDS sight anyway, why not consider the one that gives you the best feature set adding up to a tactical advantage? I wish someone had told me about the comparative advantages of the Aimpoint sights when I bought my first couple RDS's. Not that I am some kind of operator now either: I'm just an average civilian using my rifles for a combination of fun, training, and home defense. But even for users like us the T1 offers advantages, not to mention the real HSLD guys out there.
Anyone who wants the Prismatic should buy it, it's your money. My point was only that I would personally recommend the T1 because it gives you enhanced features that add up to a tactical advantage. If you take a poll among the optics users on this forum (maybe there already is such a poll), I bet a nickel you'll find a strong preference for the T1 over the Prismatic for all-around defensive use (including home defense). If somebody still wants to get the Prismatic after looking at pros/cons, then it's their money. Just think it through.
Exactly my thoughts as well. I'm not hawking the Prismatic, I'm just trying to list its features/benefits (optics, clear reticule), and a buyer has to weigh those against its shortcomings (battery life, cheekweld/eye relief requirement). And then decide which reticule you prefer, a dot, or a more complex circle/dot/plex. It all depends how folks weight various features/design aspects.
I clearly wouldn't want to patrol with one for a 8-12 hour shift, but for home defense, the notion of thumbing the power button on isn't any different than thumbing a white light on. It will power up at the intensity it was last turned off at, just like a T-1. The difference is pushing down in a horizontal plane vs rotating on a vertical plane. Maybe that matters to some, not to me though.
As I've aged my eyesight aint what it used to be, and I'm finding my Eotech a bit lacking. w/o glasses, it's really difficult to use, and virtually useless out past 25 yards or so, at least to my eyes. With glasses on it's "good enough", but after looking through scopes, the clarity provided is an order of magnitude better.
I'm just not a fan of the complex reticule, I'd rather it had a plainer circle/dot like an mini-ACOG or Eotech. This isn't a longer range, precison device, this is a up close and personal sight, so make it simpler. Having said that, I do prefer the circle/dot combo over just a plain dot, and especially a "grape clustery" dot. But again, that's my eyesight issue, not necessarily a fault of the optic. JMHO.
I've used the Prismatic and it's biggest advantages are the focus ring and the etched reticle.
The focus ring allows those w/terrible astigmatism to see a clear/crisp target & reticle whereas a std RDS (like Aimpoint or Eotech) may be nigh-unusable due to astigmatism-caused reticle distortion.
Unfortunately, this also introduces eye-relief and parallax issues.
The etched reticle is not battery-dependent for daylight use. On its lowest setting (the only setting I see a need for), a new battery lasts 250hrs (my own tests).
However, for the vast majority of us, I don't see the Prismatic offering anything superior to an Aimpoint or Eotech (IMHO).
Tomac
Nightvisionary
10-21-11, 03:21
Here is the view through my Leupold Prismatic with Circle Plex reticle. The center dot appears very fine. I just checked my full product catalog. It lists the dot as 6 MOA but I think that may actually be the dot size of the Circle Dot reticle which appears larger in the catalog. To me it looks alot like the center dot of the Eotech I used to have.
I went outside and put the reticle on an 8 inch wide white board, 112 yards away. The dot appeared to cover a little less than 1/2 of the board. 4 moa maybe?
Hardly an accurate measurement but it's the best I can do from my apartment at one in the morning. When I mount it on something I will take it to the range and see what the reticle looks like at 100 yards and report back.
http://i53.tinypic.com/243p4so.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2h8algp.jpg
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.