PDA

View Full Version : Colt M4 Ejecting Into Receiver


GreyOps
10-10-11, 12:48
Has anyone experienced this with a new Colt M4? A friend of mine just contacted me when this happened to one of the Marines he was training. The Marine had managed to install the bolt in the carrier with the extractor facing the opposite direction of the ejection port. When the bolt was checked (new from the armory by the way) the cam pin could be inserted from either side and no bevels were present. Just want to know if anyone else has come across this particular problem recently.

I will post some pictures as soon as I figure out how to get them off of my phone.
nimdabew
10-10-11, 12:54
Yes I have heard and seen this happen and yes, it was 100% user/builder error on inserting the bolt in the wrong way when reassembling the BCG.
GreyOps
10-10-11, 12:57
Was this on an actual military Colt M4 or M4A1, or something different? I'm only interested in experiences with issued hardware.
ICANHITHIMMAN
10-10-11, 13:04
how the hell does that happen? I dont think you can put it togher that way
GreyOps
10-10-11, 13:10
how the hell does that happen? I dont think you can put it togher that way

Right, definitely shouldn't be able to; but my friend alluded to a possible new design change that somehow allows this to happen.
GreyOps
10-10-11, 13:17
Pictures:
9951

9952

9953

9954

9955
Iraqgunz
10-10-11, 13:22
I highly doubt that Colt would make a design change for exactly this reason. It has to be a defect and needs to be reported ASAP.

IIRC the original M16's had a bolt that would allow the cam pin to go in either way and it was changed for exactly this reason.
Eric D.
10-10-11, 13:23
That is a bad bolt if you can install the cam pin the wrong way.
GreyOps
10-10-11, 13:34
I highly doubt that Colt would make a design change for exactly this reason.

My thoughts exactly.
Failure2Stop
10-10-11, 13:34
I've had it pop up a few times over the years.
It happens. User error and inspection fail.
Still, usually impossible to do.
marco.g
10-10-11, 13:35
I thought the cam pin hole in the bolt and the cam pin itself are tapered so that you cant install the bolt in that orientation?
markm
10-10-11, 13:36
+1 on the out of spec bolt. Should NOT be able to assemble that way!
Magic_Salad0892
10-10-11, 13:47
I like to imagine that it didn't fit, and the guy just forced it in there that way, and ****ed shit up.

I know that probably isn't the reality, but I've seen a lot of stupid people, and it was the first thing that came to mind.
nimdabew
10-10-11, 14:06
I've had it pop up a few times over the years.
It happens. User error and inspection fail.
Still, usually impossible to do.

If you give it to a grunt, he will break it. It is a constant like gravity.


Was this on an actual military Colt M4 or M4A1, or something different? I'm only interested in experiences with issued hardware.

Issued yes, to me no. I have never had this problem with newer gear though.
Failure2Stop
10-10-11, 17:01
If you give it to a grunt, he will break it. It is a constant like gravity.


I hate it when people say that.
Accross every MOS, the 03XX occ field has one of the highest ASVAB averages and the highest T&R task completion of any occ field.
Yeah, there are still idiot 03's, but taking the time to actually train people and teach them how to be self-sufficient goes a long way to preventing these kind of issues.
GreyOps
10-10-11, 17:48
I hate it when people say that.
Accross every MOS, the 03XX occ field has one of the highest ASVAB averages and the highest T&R task completion of any occ field.
Yeah, there are still idiot 03's, but taking the time to actually train people and teach them how to be self-sufficient goes a long way to preventing these kind of issues.

Also more 110 GT scores in the 03 field than any other MOS in the Corps.
Failure2Stop
10-10-11, 17:52
Also more 110 GT scores in the 03 field than any other MOS in the Corps.

Not that shooter though, apparently.
:sarcastic:
GreyOps
10-10-11, 18:00
Not that shooter though, apparently.
:sarcastic:

Unfortunately no....

Surprising though, given the group of individuals who were being trained.
Iraqgunz
10-11-11, 03:57
The so-called armorer needs to have his balls smacked with a 5lb. hammer. That should have never been issued if the issue was known.


I've had it pop up a few times over the years.
It happens. User error and inspection fail.
Still, usually impossible to do.
JSantoro
10-11-11, 08:42
Heard of this, never seen evidence of it before. Huh, kinda neat....in the "that's f**ked-up!" kinda way.

Definitely a good "teachable moment" item, for a switched-on NCO to do a hip-pocket class on weps inspection.

That the sort of thing that an armorer should be picking up during LTI, PFI, or which XYZ sort of interval/inspection?
rob_s
10-11-11, 08:46
Had a Bushmaster that was like this. Saw more like it when I sold guns. So Colt isn't the only one that lets things out like this from time to time. In fact I think ALL the BMs at that time were guilty of this.
armatac
10-11-11, 09:03
isn't that the new bolt group that is ejection side switchable...:haha:
Apricotshot
10-11-11, 12:33
I've done this before in one of my rifles. (I'm an over 110GT score 03, just not a vigilant one apparently. :jester:) I didn't think you could do this until it happened. The make of my bolt and carrier is LMT.
sgtrock82
10-11-11, 13:39
I have no idea how long it took me to figure out that the bolt couldnt (or at least shouldnt) be able to be assembled to the carrier backwards. I may have been a civy when I learned that.

Is it indeed a colt bolt? Back in the late 90s I knew of a guy that beefed up his bolt cleaning the carbon off with a dremel. To avoid a statement of charges (he already had one pending for a smashed set of nvgs) he stuffed in a commercial bolt he bought downtown over lunch break. Could a commercial bolt of some type have found its way in?
GreyOps
10-11-11, 13:58
Supposedly came straight from the armory but anything is possible.
Tweak
10-11-11, 18:52
I thought the cam pin hole in the bolt and the cam pin itself are tapered so that you cant install the bolt in that orientation?


The wrong end of the hole is swaged. Perhaps this bolt wasn't sufficiently done so.
viperashes
10-12-11, 04:50
Heh. When I got to the pictures I got a stupid look and a chuckle. I thought this was an urban legend.

I guess anything is possible, and now I've actually seen it. It is still pretty crazy. I think as an NCO I would probably be humiliated to find out one of my Marines had this issue. Even if it wasn't his fault, I'm pretty sure I'd "WTF, over".
Dano5326
10-12-11, 18:15
A mil bolt will be marked MPC or MPF, MP-something if you find some 60's parts
smores
10-15-11, 10:32
Thanks for posting this. When describing field strip and inspection procedures to my customers I always instruct them to be mindful of proper orientation of the bolt. I've never run across a bolt that the cam pin could be inserted from either side, so it's good to know they're out there. I'll definitely be looking for these now!

When I read the thread title, it's all I could think of was, "wow, how could the bolt be installed 180-degrees in the wrong direction?"
Heavy Metal
10-15-11, 10:56
The wrong end of the hole is swaged. Perhaps this bolt wasn't sufficiently done so.

....or neither end was swaged, somehow the bolt got by that step. I have encountered this but only once.
Tweak
10-15-11, 11:26
(new from the armory by the way)

I tend to wonder as to Dano's question, perhaps this was '60's stock still floating around some armorer's desk drawer. Is there a date code on the bolt?