Gun dealers don't want to make money or what?

[Eurodriver]

On Friday a buddy and I went to some local gun shops. He saw a Colt Delta Elite 10mm behind the glass for a good price. He tells the guy sitting at a desk behind the counter "I'll take that".

The guy sighs, says "Alright buddy" and just sits there for a solid minute or so. We decide to walk around the entire store, come back, and he's still sitting down.

"Yo man, umm...I want to buy this gun."

"Oh, okay. Yeah for sure we'll get you set up in just a minute."

The guy wasn't doing anything (even if he was, thats still shitty CS) he was reading a magazine. There were several other employees around too, to no avail. We weren't really irritated at this point, as we were in a gun store and not exactly in a hurry to leave. I was getting curious about his, and everyone else's, lack of interest however.

So we walk around some more, and then my buddy sees a Colt 6920, the new one with the Roger's stock, that he wants. He tells the guy "You know what, I think I want this one too."

Now here's my buddy, about to drop more than $2,000 on guns along with magazines, ammo, etc and no one is even getting up to help? It was a few more minutes and the guy didn't even ask if my buddy wanted to hold the Delta Elite (the 6920 wasn't in a case) he just unlocked the case, took it to his desk, and started filling out paperwork.

Additionally, Today, I called well respected, established manufacturer of firearms that all of us here are familiar with and asked them what their lead time was on shipping for a certain high end model. They answered, and I told them I'd like to buy one.

"Yeah bro, just go ahead and buy it online. I'm a little busy right now."

I promptly hung up.

I think I'll just give my money to FN instead. I have no problem ordering online, but really? You're too busy to take a couple thousand dollars off my hand? Alright.


I know this is lengthy. But I am pretty baffled. When I want to drop between $1,000 and $3,000, I'd expect some "jumpiness" from the dealer to make the sale. Why isn't it happening?

I fully understand gun dealers being reluctant to getting up and showing every single firearm to someone who most likely won't buy it. But when someone has cash in hand and wants your product?


Cliffes:

When I email/call/walk in a gun dealer and want to buy something right then and there I expect to be treated at least somewhat differently than one who normally meanders in and out without busting out their wallet.

Is the gun industry doing so well they can put off buyers because they have people that actually are paying? Is that it? I shouldn't expect to get treated decently because they know if I don't buy their $2,500 rifle someone else will?

[HK51Fan]

I doubt any of those guys in the shop owned the store. i've seen this a number of times. These guys that work there don't make much money and yet they sell and handle firearms they'll probably never be able to afford, thus the Eff You attitude!

[SteyrAUG]

Just for some perspective, the dealer was not about to make $2,000

Dealer price on a Delta Elite is $825 + s/h ($40) and a Colt 6920 is $950 + s/h ($40) so if your buddy was paying $2,000 the dealer was about to make around $145 or about 7%.

That said, the important part was your buddy was about to pay the asking price for two guns and given that the dealer is only marking them up in the 5-7% range he needs to get off his ass and make sure he moves as much product as he can before he goes out of business.

If I were a stocking dealer I'd make sure anyone who had to wait at least had a free Coke while I did my best to get to them as soon as I could.

[NWPilgrim]

And as we all know, although the dealer does not make a lot on a $1,000 gun they do make better margin on accessories. How about a case for that? Need some ammo? Got enough mags? Tried brand xxx yet? Want to upgrade the trigger on that beauty? Like that stock or want a different one? How about a Zomie bayonet/chainsaw and a box of the new Hornady Zombie ammo? ETC.

But if you blow they guy off on the rifle sale you have little chance making those good margin sales.

[skyugo]

Just for some perspective, the dealer was not about to make $2,000

Dealer price on a Delta Elite is $825 + s/h ($40) and a Colt 6920 is $950 + s/h ($40) so if your buddy was paying $2,000 the dealer was about to make around $145 or about 7%.

That said, the important part was your buddy was about to pay the asking price for two guns and given that the dealer is only marking them up in the 5-7% range he needs to get off his ass and make sure he moves as much product as he can before he goes out of business.

If I were a stocking dealer I'd make sure anyone who had to wait at least had a free Coke while I did my best to get to them as soon as I could.

is the gun business so good that guys can't be arsed over 145 dollars?
crap i'm in the wrong field.

edit-i realize you're not siding with the dealer.. it's late haha.

[Belmont31R]

CS in the gun world is something that always kinda baffled me. Many brick and mortar stores are owned by guys who got into it because they were into guns at one point, and wanted to make a living around guns. They sit in that same store all day for years, and probably become a bit jaded. Some of the things they do and policies they have make zero sense for getting & retaining customers.


When I was growing up there was a gun store my parents had bought me several guns at. Spent some decent money there. One day my buddy and I go in there and got kicked out because we were not 18 at the time (17). On the way out the old codger yelled from the other side of the store that we need to get some real clothes. We didn't even say anything just kept walking out. We didn't dress badly just for our age. No sagging pants or anything that would be offensive to anyone. Never went back and come to think of it I never saw another customer in there a single time previously. Not sure how he stayed in business. He just sat on a stool chain smoking all day.


While a dealer may not make gobs of money on a single sale they can ensure repeat customers by being friendly and not enacting policies that drive business away. Some stores are devoid of customers every time you go in and some always have people coming in and out. Its pretty obvious why. The shitty ones will die on the vine while the aged chain smoking owner rots in his demise alone all day.

[Eurodriver]

Just for some perspective, the dealer was not about to make $2,000


I'm well aware of that. But how much money would he get if my buddy didn't buy anything?

[montanadave]

In the internet age when a customer can go online and almost instantly compare prices on products from a dozen venders and order with a click of the mouse, the only advantage the local merchant has is quality customer service and providing the customer and opportunity to handle and inspect the merchandise prior to the purchase.

When a store fails to provide either, they deserve to go out of business. I like to support local merchants who provide quality service. Those that think locals have some obligation to "buy local" out of a sense of entitlement are out to lunch.

[rob_s]

shitty dealer attitudes and prices -> people shopping online -> even worse dealer attitudes

With the margins that dealers make, especially having to compete with online, they can only afford to hire people with nothing better to do, or who want to be there because it's part of their hobby. Neither of whom are going to be in any itching hurry to actually work. There are, of course, exceptions, so anyone reading this who is already hitting "reply" to throw a fit you can assume I'm not talking about you if it doesn't apply. I also worked in a shop for several years and saw all of this firsthand.

I haven't bought anything in a retail shop in years. There is just no reason to. There are small dealers like Steyr that offer transfer services or who's overhead is low enough that custom orders are affordable. Parts and pieces and ammo I get online.

It's unfortunate that the brick & mortar stores may go away, but they dig their own graves. Even if they just offered both online and brick & mortar like Grant, they might survive. But the guys that want to sit on their ass and lament "the internet" ruining them are missing the point. It's not the internet that ruined them, they ruined themselves by refusing to adapt and hiring morons.

[montanadave]

I think it's what economist Joseph Shumpeter referred to as "creative destruction." From his 1942 work Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy:

"The opening up of new markets, foreign or domestic, and the organizational development from the craft shop to such concerns as U.S. Steel illustrate the same process of industrial mutation—if I may use that biological term—that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one. This process of Creative Destruction is the essential fact about capitalism." (p. 83)

A good primer on the concept can be read here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/CreativeDestruction.html

And that, boys and girls, concludes today's lesson in Econ 101.

[SteyrAUG]

I'm well aware of that. But how much money would he get if my buddy didn't buy anything?

Zip, which is why he can hardly afford to blow people off like that. He's already trying to make it happen at 5-7% which is a losing game if you aren't moving things like Wal Mart.

[Eurodriver]

shitty dealer attitudes and prices -> people shopping online -> even worse dealer attitudes

With the margins that dealers make, especially having to compete with online, they can only afford to hire people with nothing better to do, or who want to be there because it's part of their hobby. Neither of whom are going to be in any itching hurry to actually work. There are, of course, exceptions, so anyone reading this who is already hitting "reply" to throw a fit you can assume I'm not talking about you if it doesn't apply. I also worked in a shop for several years and saw all of this firsthand.

I haven't bought anything in a retail shop in years. There is just no reason to. There are small dealers like Steyr that offer transfer services or who's overhead is low enough that custom orders are affordable. Parts and pieces and ammo I get online.

It's unfortunate that the brick & mortar stores may go away, but they dig their own graves. Even if they just offered both online and brick & mortar like Grant, they might survive. But the guys that want to sit on their ass and lament "the internet" ruining them are missing the point. It's not the internet that ruined them, they ruined themselves by refusing to adapt and hiring morons.

Maybe you missed the point, but I am speaking about online dealers as well.

Specifically, well known vendors associated with this site. Can't even reply to an email?

I'm guessing it has something to do with vendors getting hundreds of email inquiries from people with no intention to purchase.

But when I'm trying to ask a question so that I can place an order, I expect an answer.

[C4IGrant]

shitty dealer attitudes and prices -> people shopping online -> even worse dealer attitudes

With the margins that dealers make, especially having to compete with online, they can only afford to hire people with nothing better to do, or who want to be there because it's part of their hobby. Neither of whom are going to be in any itching hurry to actually work. There are, of course, exceptions, so anyone reading this who is already hitting "reply" to throw a fit you can assume I'm not talking about you if it doesn't apply. I also worked in a shop for several years and saw all of this firsthand.

I haven't bought anything in a retail shop in years. There is just no reason to. There are small dealers like Steyr that offer transfer services or who's overhead is low enough that custom orders are affordable. Parts and pieces and ammo I get online.

It's unfortunate that the brick & mortar stores may go away, but they dig their own graves. Even if they just offered both online and brick & mortar like Grant, they might survive. But the guys that want to sit on their ass and lament "the internet" ruining them are missing the point. It's not the internet that ruined them, they ruined themselves by refusing to adapt and hiring morons.


This is all true. Many gun dealers are older and really do not like change. So they ignore the internet.

As I have said about 10 million times on this forum, gun dealers are to be viewed the same way as a used car salesman. Yes there are exceptions, but not many.

Where we are located (out in the middle of BFE), we would NOT SURVIVE on local sales. Dealers must branch out and do other things.

IMHO, once the baby boomer generation passes on, we will see a more modern gun dealer that is better at using technology and SHOULD have better CS.




C4

[C4IGrant]

Maybe you missed the point, but I am speaking about online dealers as well.

Specifically, well known vendors associated with this site. Can't even reply to an email?

I'm guessing it has something to do with vendors getting hundreds of email inquiries from people with no intention to purchase.

But when I'm trying to ask a question so that I can place an order, I expect an answer.

If you e-mailed us (and I did not reply in a timely manner), I apologize. I might have missed it or flagged it for a response at a later time.

Larger online dealers get about 500 e-mails a day, 20 PM's a day (on various forums) and tons of phone calls. Not to mention keeping up with their posts online (especially if they are post whore like us). :D

While the above is no excuse, I think people need to realize how much typing and talking goes on for an online dealer (especially if they are popular).


C4

[KhanRad]

Additionally, Today, I called well respected, established manufacturer of firearms that all of us here are familiar with and asked them what their lead time was on shipping for a certain high end model. They answered, and I told them I'd like to buy one.

"Yeah bro, just go ahead and buy it online. I'm a little busy right now."

I promptly hung up.

I think I'll just give my money to FN instead. I have no problem ordering online, but really? You're too busy to take a couple thousand dollars off my hand? Alright.


Sorry to hear about your PredatAR experience. Enjoy the SCAR.

[QuietShootr]

Sorry to hear about your PredatAR experience. Enjoy the SCAR.

Must have got The Man himself on the phone.

's all right. FN will still be cranking out guns when LaRue is a dusty footnote in a yellowed Gun Digest, forgotten on my great-grandson's shelf.

[Eurodriver]

Hey guys, I never said any names...


Must have got The Man himself on the phone.

Hah! No. Someone did just tell me however, that if I mentioned to "The Man" that I was met with shitty customer service, he'd "probably tell you to go F yourself".

I guess what I'm so baffled at is:

-Brick and Mortar shops pricing guns $500 above MSRP and having zero customer service.

-Online dealers seemingly ignoring customers who are throwing cash at the monitor trying to get orders placed.

I am usually a 100%, order online and forget it kinda guy. BCM comes to mind, usually uppers ship the same day I order, no hassles. Its great. But when I'm dropping close to $3,000 I want to make sure that money isn't going to get tied up in a backorder status, If they charge the card when they ship or when the order is placed, etc. Call me old school but when spending an entire month's pay as an E5, I like to have human contact.