View Full Version : suppressed 7.5" AR...
thinking of putting one together in the near future, just for shits and gigs really.
anyone here have one that could post picts/specs and/or input about how you like or dislike it?
turdbocharged
10-11-11, 10:09
I have shot a buddies 7.5" rock river and it was a joke honestly. We couldn't hit much past 50 yards accurately. Others may have different experiences but mine was not good. There's also like zero hand-guard which was a problem for me. I just never felt comfortable shooting it. YMMV...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73474
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=86038
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=878728
Magic_Salad0892
10-11-11, 14:31
If you use a 7.5'' AR, you're an idiot.
If you put a $1000+ quality suppressor on that 7.5'' AR and void the warranty, ruin the suppressor, and get little/no sound reduction, you're a ****ing retard.
If you use a 7.5'' AR, you're an idiot.
If you put a $1000+ quality suppressor on that 7.5'' AR and void the warranty, ruin the suppressor, and get little/no sound reduction, you're a ****ing retard.
Not to mention they are ****ing RIDICULOUS loud
If you use a 7.5'' AR, you're an idiot.
I was resisting posting this myself earlier. But the fact is... you're correct.
Wow, sounds an awful lot like another forum around here.
I've got an LWRC PSD in 5.56 and I shoot it with a can quite a bit.
I can ****ING drill MGM BC zone steel at 100 all ****ing day. I don't mean laying in the prone slow fire, I mean burn shit down shooting.
I check the can for baffle strikes after shooting and nothing so far. I've had the combo for a couple years. Proper installation of the adapter is key. I've also had ZERO malfunctions out of the gun, multiple ammo brands.
As for why? Because a completely assembled AR fits in a shoulder bag, and I can carry that bitch anywhere, including on my bike.
Also for the why?? Because I ****ing can. Because it's cool.
It's funny when I hear people talking about worthless guns and ammo combos. Anyone want to go stand down range of me?? It might not be the best solution for terminal ballistics but it does offer other advantages. Again, the name of the platform is a PSD.
As for the can warranty, you're right, it could void it. So does half the shit I do to my cars and bikes. I weigh the risk versus reward and make decisions accordingly.
I'm not picking a fight, but damn, the guy just asked a question. He already stated his intended purpose. I'm sure more experts will chime in and be more polite than the rest of us.
Wow, sounds an awful lot like another forum around here.
been that way for quite some time, unfortunately.
I have no love for, nor interest in, the 7.5" ARs personally, largely because I have seen several people have problems getting them to run well, but this thread went to shit quickly and considering the source of that shit it's even more pathetic.
Also for the why?? Because I ****ing can. Because it's cool.
That's fine. It's just a set up that's robbing the cartridge.
Anyone want to go stand down range of me??
No one wants to go down range of a pellet gun either. That logic doesn't justify the silly set up.
7.5 is a great compact package... but it's time to switch to a Sub gun if that's the weapon size you need.. in my opinion anyway.
If you want to go with a super short (such as 8" upper) I would suggest a Noveske 300 Blackout SBR. It will be very quiet and the suppressor will be just fine.
;)
You can also fit a mk18 completely assembled in a shoulder bag....
sandsunsurf
10-11-11, 17:09
The AAC 762-SDN-6 can be used on a 7.5" 5.56 without voiding the warranty, per a telephone conversation I had with AAC when making an order.
As far as a 7.5" AR in general.... Mine works and has run 100% but I don't put a lot of rounds through it. Not very accurate, and without a can but with the PWS fsc556 on it the concussion is teeth rattling.
I think it looks cool, but I'm looking forward to getting my 10.3" Delta Company Arms barrel in 300 AAC to replace the short 5.56 barrel.
http://tapatalk.com/mu/635c14d8-be73-f7c2.jpg
The added gas from the silencer overloads the shorter operating system more than a carbine length gas system.
You will want to use at least an 8" barrel and 7" handguard if you want to be able to hold the handguard.
It might be interesting to compare the OAL and sound of a 10.5" with one of the newer mini cans to a 7.5" with a regular size can.
I agree that finding another caliber is the way to go if such a short weapon is needed. Leaving the AR platform completely might be best though... MP5, etc.
Even the PDW caliber rounds like 5.7 are somewhat silly.... better off with a full house 9mm load.
I agree that finding another caliber is the way to go if such a short weapon is needed. Leaving the AR platform completely might be best though... MP5, etc.
Even the PDW caliber rounds like 5.7 are somewhat silly.... better off with a full house 9mm load.
You may have seen this already but in this video they compare the overall length of the MP5 to a AAC 9" 300 blk. IIRC from the video they are using a fixed stock on the MP5 which hurts it....but were talking 230 grns at a 1000 fps vs 145 grns at 850 fps.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0AHqr3o3M
ETA: I have shot 1, 7.5" AR. It was on a FA lower at 50 yards. I didn't have much issue ringing steel on full auto and it ran through the whole mag. This is one sample and it was a Noveske upper.
jonconsiglio
10-11-11, 20:28
If you use a 7.5'' AR, you're an idiot.
If you put a $1000+ quality suppressor on that 7.5'' AR and void the warranty, ruin the suppressor, and get little/no sound reduction, you're a ****ing retard.
In regards to this post, do you have any clue who you are talking to? Why don't you ask before talking to someone like. I bet in person this response would have been a HELL OF A LOT different.
Like zushwa, I have an 8" PSD. Not my favorite and I prefer my mk18, but does that make me a ****ing retard??
This shit here is getting stupid.
For those that provided meaningful input, thank you. For guys like magic saladtosser, thank you as well, your comment actually made me laugh. Although it was childish and useless, for some reason I found it kind of funny. It takes more than an internet tough guy hiding behind his keyboard to spin me up so it's all good:dirol:
FWIW, I don't intend to shoot people with it so terminal ballistics are of no concern to me, nor do I plan to do much shooting past 25yds with it so external ballistics aren’t an issue either. It really would be just a "why the **** not" or "because it seems cool" project. I already have all the parts to build it just sitting around, except for the BBL (and suppressor which I will eventually have and use on other guns also), so I figured I'd look into it. I also have multiple other ARs, from 10.5" SBR's to an 18" SPR type, so I don't really have any other use for the extra parts.
I did consider the 9mm and 300AAC options, but I'm not crazy about sinking all the additional money into those calibers...BBL, bolt, mags, mag block, suppressor, reloading supplies, etc.
Lastly, I have found 3-4 manufacturers that will warranty a can on a rifle that short.
A 300BLK is just the barrel. It uses the same bolt and mags.
A 300BLK is just the barrel. It uses the same bolt and mags.
yes but also for me is the additional cost of a 30cal suppressor and the ammo components. i have a large stash of 5.56 ammo/components already and have a (nearly) unlimited supply of it from my dept.
however the more i research the 300AAC the more it interest me...
First off I wanna say thanks to the members here who have contributed at least something to the thread. I have no words for others. It pays to have members like zushwa contribute as I've personally been in his shop and asked him and the boys dumbassed questions and they laughed with me all the way to a solution. Stand up shop. I still plan to buy that mk18 upper when u make it down in a few weeks if you still got it.
The second is I wish to ask the op about which companies he found warranty them that short as I have a pea diablo upper is like to tame a bit.
Magic_Salad0892
10-12-11, 03:05
In regards to this post, do you have any clue who you are talking to? Why don't you ask before talking to someone like. I bet in person this response would have been a HELL OF A LOT different.
Like zushwa, I have an 8" PSD. Not my favorite and I prefer my mk18, but does that make me a ****ing retard??
This shit here is getting stupid.
I wasn't targeting one person. I was making a blanket statement.
I have faith in your shooting ability, based on PMs you've sent me in the past about your job.
PSD works for you? Bitchin'!
Does that mean you aren't robbing the round of real performance, and ****ing up a suppressor? Nope.
Also, all the merits of a 7.5'' gun go out the window and backfire when a can is added.
Sorry if it sounded like I was being hostile. I wasn't targeting anybody, I rarely RARELY do that.
But 7.5'' guns are very easily screwed up. If I wanted a gun that size, I'd go MP5, or if I had the option KAC PDW.
Those can be suppressed, and are reliable. (Well... MP5 is proven. I have faith in the PDW though.)
My responce wouldn't have been different in the slightest.
Why? Because I wasn't being an asshole at a particular person.
I was simply stating my opinion that a 7.5'' AR is similar in practicality to a 10.3'' Glock pistol barrel.
A Mk. 18 can do it all, 10x better. And be suppressed properly.
The second is I wish to ask the op about which companies he found warranty them that short as I have a pea diablo upper is like to tame a bit.
Certain models from OPS Inc, Thunderbeast Arms, Griffin Armament, AAC, and probably HTG but I am still waiting for an email reply to confirm. A couple of the above might only go down to 8" vice 7.5"
viperashes
10-12-11, 05:03
Also for the why?? Because I ****ing can. Because it's cool.
At this right there, you should stop listening to everyone elses opinions. If that is why you want it, then nothing else is valid.
Shits and giggles are both valid reasons to own something. They aren't utilitarian uses, but **** it. If it's just something you want, it's something you want. It's his money, he asked a simple question.
Again, the name of the platform is a PSD.
PSD is the name of the detail that carries "PDWs" or Personal Defense Weapons. PSD is Personal Security Detail, just for your know-how. ;)
yes but also for me is the additional cost of a 30cal suppressor and the ammo components. i have a large stash of 5.56 ammo/components already and have a (nearly) unlimited supply of it from my dept.
however the more i research the 300AAC the more it interest me...
The good news is that a can like the 762-SDN-6 from AAC can be used on other calibers. It's the first can that really started to change my mind about civilian silencer ownership (after already owning three myself) being a complete waste of money. With the wide range of calibers/rifles the SDN-6 can fit on and the shorter length than the previous model it's pretty close to a do-all can. You could get a mount and stick it on your bolt gun, among other things.
It is, of course, slightly bigger and heavier than the equivalent 5.56
M4-2000 (http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=197)
Weight: 17.1 oz
Length: 6.625"
762-SDN-6 (http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=865)
Weight: 19.85oz
Length: 7.66"
Another downside of suppressing 5.56 at that barrel length is that you're likely going to want a brake to help protect the blast baffle from accelerated wear, and a brake on a 7.5" gun isn't something I'd want to spend much time shooting.
First off I wanna say thanks to the members here who have contributed at least something to the thread. I have no words for others.
That's cute. You pick the one reply you like. :rolleyes:
There's another AR related website that will agree with you 99 percent of the time I bet! ;)
You guys are killing me. In no particular order;
Thanks for the compliments about my shop and our business. I appreciate it.
PSD is the platform that LWRC makes, and it's targeted toward a specific job. I'm pretty sure I know the job descriptions and what the mission is.
Mr. Magic, you called someone, and in particular, ME, an idiot. Don't start backpedaling now.
Markm, Good job trying to marginalize my comment with the pellet gun comment. 5.56 and 7.5-8 inch barrel AR's are being used RIGHT NOW in the fight. My point is that even though it is not optimal, it is lethal. Pellet gun?? Not so much.
Agreed, 5.56 is less than ideal from a barrel that short. There are other advantages to running an AR platform with a barrel that short, such as weapons manipulations, commonality in parts and accessories, and round availability.
Are there other guns that might be better?? Maybe. Do any of you own and work with a multitude of weapons of that ilk?? Any of the posters in this thread done any side by side comparisons of a 7.5-8 inch AR, MP5, KAC PDW, AAC Blackout?? Ease of concealment?? Terminal ballistics?? Accuracy at intended ranges?? Ability to use in vehicles?? Anyone?? ANYONE?? Or is this just the "I read some shit on a forum once" crowd??
If the OP, or anyone, wants to build a gun that short, then give him advice, or some logical advantages or disadvantages. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.
That's cute. You pick the one reply you like. :rolleyes:
There's another AR related website that will agree with you 99 percent of the time I bet! ;)
Actually markm I was just simply saying thanks because I might have an interest in this subject and someone whom I know responded with good info. If you can find a post I get butthurt in when someone said something I didnt like is be amazed. I think anyone who been here long enough knows your attitude. It doesn't bother me in the bit and I wouldn't hesitate to take your advice on a lot. I have an ability to pull the substance out of a conversation and leave the shit if you will. What I meant by no word for the others was more long the lines of no words. That means good or bad but if I hurt your feelings thats my bad.
Op thanks for sharing your list for me. I'll have to go back and call around. I was under the understanding that mostly just warranted down to 10.3".
You guys are killing me. In no particular order;
Thanks for the compliments about my shop and our business. I appreciate it.
PSD is the platform that LWRC makes, and it's targeted toward a specific job. I'm pretty sure I know the job descriptions and what the mission is.
Mr. Magic, you called someone, and in particular, ME, an idiot. Don't start backpedaling now.
Markm, Good job trying to marginalize my comment with the pellet gun comment. 5.56 and 7.5-8 inch barrel AR's are being used RIGHT NOW in the fight. My point is that even though it is not optimal, it is lethal. Pellet gun?? Not so much.
Agreed, 5.56 is less than ideal from a barrel that short. There are other advantages to running an AR platform with a barrel that short, such as weapons manipulations, commonality in parts and accessories, and round availability.
Are there other guns that might be better?? Maybe. Do any of you own and work with a multitude of weapons of that ilk?? Any of the posters in this thread done any side by side comparisons of a 7.5-8 inch AR, MP5, KAC PDW, AAC Blackout?? Ease of concealment?? Terminal ballistics?? Accuracy at intended ranges?? Ability to use in vehicles?? Anyone?? ANYONE?? Or is this just the "I read some shit on a forum once" crowd??
If the OP, or anyone, wants to build a gun that short, then give him advice, or some logical advantages or disadvantages. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.
Golf clap.
After handling a 6.8 PSD and hearing about its AK-equivalent-ballistics-in-a-MP5-size package, I think this setup is particularly well suited for certain applications- particularly around vehicles. With a proper 7.62 can, you've got huge potential and flexibility for using that can on a big variety of calibers.
Has anyone ever Chrono'd a 7.5"?
I wonder what the velocity is on say M855 and a .223
Magic_Salad0892
10-12-11, 15:22
Mr. Magic, you called someone, and in particular, ME, an idiot. Don't start backpedaling now.
I will start backpedaling because I wasn't intentionally calling anybody out.
I posted before you entered the thread.
BTW: Is your PSD in 6.8 or 5.56mm?
I will start backpedaling because I wasn't intentionally calling anybody out.
I posted before you entered the thread.
BTW: Is your PSD in 6.8 or 5.56mm?
Bullshit. You said anyone that owned a 7.5 inch AR was an idiot. Now, technically mine is 8 inches, but I'm sure that extra half inch didn't propel me into genius status in your eyes. It doesn't matter if or when I entered the conversation. What you said was ****ed up. If you disagree about choices someone makes then state your reasons why. If name calling is the best you can do, well, then, we can do that too.
Magic_Salad0892
10-12-11, 20:29
Bullshit. You said anyone that owned a 7.5 inch AR was an idiot. Now, technically mine is 8 inches, but I'm sure that extra half inch didn't propel me into genius status in your eyes. It doesn't matter if or when I entered the conversation. What you said was ****ed up. If you disagree about choices someone makes then state your reasons why. If name calling is the best you can do, well, then, we can do that too.
I'm not prepared to start a fight with you, and I wasn't intentionally being hostile to you.
I'm sorry if I offended you. We got off on the wrong foot.
Plus, if you really think I'm about to start an argument with somebody who undoubtedly has more experience than me...
No. I'm not going to do that.
I apologize, I may have been in the wrong.
So I'll rephrase:
I belive that the 7.5'' AR system is completely useless.
It does nothing that a 10.3'' couldn't do.
It voids and ruins suppressors.
And has little/no sound reduction.
They're extremely loud, especially indoors.
It's just not practical in 5.56mm.
snackgunner
10-12-11, 20:33
zushwa, got any pics of your rifle? And maybe some pics of it in the pack you have?
Im interested in seeing what the rifle looks like and how easy it would actually be to conceal.
Shake hands now gentleman. Its over and people apologized.
Lets keep this civil. Were all on the same team here
Shake hands now gentleman. Its over and people apologized.
Lets keep this civil. Were all on the same team here
:meeting:
I see both sides...might not be as great as a 10.3 for some reasons but I do want a 7.5 at some point. As Zushwa said...because I ****ing can :cool:
thinking of putting one together in the near future, just for shits and gigs really.
anyone here have one that could post picts/specs and/or input about how you like or dislike it?
Typically speaking, these guns in 5.56 (DI) are somewhat problematic to get to run. So I think many people don't recommend them because of this fact alone.
Now if you get it in say 9mm, that is a different animal and should run with no issues.
In the event that you go with a 5.56 and DO plan on using it to shoot people, there are some options that make this package viable. Most of your .223/5.56 needs to be going a certain speed in order to fragment. Out of a 7.5, I don't think they ever get up to speed in order to offer this capability. This doesn't mean that you cannot kill someone dead, but you are basically shooting a .22 magnum.
With that said, if you go with a barrier blind round (SPEER 24448/24455, Federal T1/T3, Hornady 8125N, etc) these do not need speed to do their job. So no matter the length of the barrel or the distance of the target (within reason) you will be able put someone down.
Good luck.
C4
Question for the experts. Does a round GAIN velocity with a suppressor?? So if I'm running just an 8 inch barrel and the round isn't hitting the magic number to fragment, "could" a suppressor give it enough velocity to do so?? I realize the suppressor negates some of the advantages of the extremely short guns, but I'm curious if anyone has seen significant increases in velocity.
I digress.
Here is the gun/bag combo I keep with me, although the gear inside changes depending on location and season.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0395.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0394.jpg
Here is the PSD in use during a recent TV show we worked on with Kyle Defoor. You can see how maneuverable the gun is around vehicles.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1366.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1377.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1381.jpg
Question for the experts. Does a round GAIN velocity with a suppressor?? So if I'm running just an 8 inch barrel and the round isn't hitting the magic number to fragment, "could" a suppressor give it enough velocity to do so?? I realize the suppressor negates some of the advantages of the extremely short guns, but I'm curious if anyone has seen significant increases in velocity.
I digress.
Here is the gun/bag combo I keep with me, although the gear inside changes depending on location and season.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0395.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0394.jpg
The can does increase FPS, but not enough IMHO to reliably get a bullet to fragment.
Cool pics BTW.
C4
I've only chronoed (is that a word?) an m110 with and without. The can only gave us 50 fps which I don't think sounds like a lot.
I agree with grant. That's out of the longest can I've seen but not sure how much of it offhand is actual can. The first 5" or so slips over the barrel and is a blast baffle and chamber.
The longer the can is the more time it has to push the round faster I think. Grant can say for sure probably but its still not enough only minute.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73474
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=86038
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=878728
These are a good place to start.
Anyway OP as Grant said the 7.5 5.56 can be an iffy gun and can take some extra tlc to make sure it runs well. The same has been said for the 10.3/10.5 though. As long as it is setup by a quality mfg it should be ok. If you look many of the same arguments are made on the 10 inch guns and running suppressors as well. The 7.5 is just going to be a little harder.
My advise would be to buy quality and look around for a suppressor that will honor the warranty as people have listed a few that do. Most don't support their 5.56 suppressors running on guns shorter then 10.3/10.5.
I can't really speak to them as I don't have much first hand experience. I've only shot the lwrc and that was in 6.8. As others have said you have some rounds that should be better for the short barrel but if it is just a toy who really cares?
The can does increase FPS, but not enough IMHO to reliably get a bullet to fragment.
Cool pics BTW.
C4
Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
Typically speaking, these guns in 5.56 (DI) are somewhat problematic to get to run. So I think many people don't recommend them because of this fact alone.
Now if you get it in say 9mm, that is a different animal and should run with no issues.
In the event that you go with a 5.56 and DO plan on using it to shoot people, there are some options that make this package viable. Most of your .223/5.56 needs to be going a certain speed in order to fragment. Out of a 7.5, I don't think they ever get up to speed in order to offer this capability. This doesn't mean that you cannot kill someone dead, but you are basically shooting a .22 magnum.
With that said, if you go with a barrier blind round (SPEER 24448/24455, Federal T1/T3, Hornady 8125N, etc) these do not need speed to do their job. So no matter the length of the barrel or the distance of the target (within reason) you will be able put someone down.
Good luck.
C4
This is almost exactly what I was going to post, but was going to suggest a different round. Grant is right thogh that for an AR that "might" get used in a defensive situation, I would want a barrier blind load. All the above loads are great, but the load that I was going to suggest was the BH 5.56 TSX 50gr load. It is lighter AND in 5.56, which will allow it to travel a little faster, thus increasing your "effective range", while still being a lethal option. Look up the terminal ballistics. Only downside is cost. I was thinking of a 7.5" build for a "trunk gun" with this round...hope I'm not an idiot...:p
Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
I believe that if it is an expanding round (instead of fragmenting), then it is more than likely a barrier blind load like what Grant was talking about. I may be wrong about this particular round, so I would wait for Grant to chime in.
I still stand by my suggestion above though ;)
Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
Yes, but typically any AR barrel is going to give you enough FPS to expand out to say 100yds.
C4
This is almost exactly what I was going to post, but was going to suggest a different round. Grant is right thogh that for an AR that "might" get used in a defensive situation, I would want a barrier blind load. All the above loads are great, but the load that I was going to suggest was the BH 5.56 TSX 50gr load. It is lighter AND in 5.56, which will allow it to travel a little faster, thus increasing your "effective range", while still being a lethal option. Look up the terminal ballistics. Only downside is cost. I was thinking of a 7.5" build for a "trunk gun" with this round...hope I'm not an idiot...:p
That is another great load, but DAMN it is expensive.
C4
Thanks for the replies. Ultimately if the purpose of this build is such then ammo cost should be factored into the decision making before beginning the project.
capt.chris
10-13-11, 22:11
It might be interesting to compare the OAL and sound of a 10.5" with one of the newer mini cans to a 7.5" with a regular size can.
Since you provided the barrel, I'll see what i can do this weekend and post some video and pics...along with some chrono'd results with different ammo to try and help....
I can't run the M4-S on my 10.5" switch block upper due to rail clearance and mounts but can compare with an AAC Ranger against the M4-S and M4-M on the 8.5"...
Quick pic before final assembly:
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae255/captchris/055-1-1.jpg
Ready for testing:
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae255/captchris/012-1-1-1.jpg
Specs for testing:
Noveske 8.5" barrel
Noveske bolt
LMT Enhanced carrier
Ops Inc muzzle brake and m4 collar
NIB upper receiver
Spikes 9" BAR rail
Accepts Ops Inc M4-S and M4-M silencers
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae255/captchris/065.jpg
Left to right: M4-S, M4-m, Ranger
I've shot a few super shorties and they never did much for me. Most of the time they simply didn't work reliably enough to be more than a novelty. Suppressed they were nothing but gas in the face. Until a few weeks ago I would have had completely zero interest in a 7.5" AR platform in 5.56. Then I got the opportunity to shoot a very good 7.5" gun that really worked! Mag dump after mag after mag, this thing was a house on fire. Not sure I am ready to run out and build one, but the lil' guy could have a place in a niche role to fill. Small & light, it will fit in a 'pack real slick. I'd feel totally good toting this particular rifle if I had to face-shoot bad guys up close. And, it is a hoot just to play around with too!
This is not my mini-rig, but I got to spend a little time in the shoot house with it. The carbine belongs to a gun-rag writer and is basically a T&E platform: Spikes, BCM, FailZero coated guts, Insight MRDS, and a braked OPS M4-S on a FA lower. It ran like a raped ape all weekend - totally dry. This gun didn't have a drop of lube anywhere on it. It sounded pretty much like a 16" with a A2 FH but it is a hell of a lot handier. Definitely NOT safe without ears. But, it wasn't blowing my doors off either. Less offensive than my unsuppressed 11.5" gun. I wasn't forced to eat carbon fouled gas and as a lefty I really appreciated that. Yea, me like.
I'm not sure I would ever have a clearly defined need for a gun like this, but I wouldn't say they're tits on a chicken either. Let your mission drive your gear.
http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae149/WickedWeapons/OPSM4-S.jpg
lloydkristmas
10-13-11, 22:48
By the time you get down to a damn 7 inch barrel with 5.56, you'd almost be better off with a UMP or MP5 type SMG. Its even more compact, more reliable, easier to suppress, and not a whole lot less effective.
turdbocharged
10-14-11, 08:18
It sounded pretty much like a 16" with a A2 FH but it is a hell of a lot handier. Definitely NOT safe without ears. But, it wasn't blowing my doors off either. Less offensive than my unsuppressed 11.5" gun.
So what you're saying is the 7.5" With a suppressor was as loud as a 16" without? Wow! I have shot a 7.5" without one and it sure as shit was loud, but I guess I never thought it would still be that loud with a suppressor.:fie:
I definitely agree with those who said how handy they are. Perhaps if you're purpose is to sling large amounts of lead downrange in a close environment they could be adequate.
So what you're saying is the 7.5" With a suppressor was as loud as a 16" without? Wow! I have shot a 7.5" without one and it sure as shit was loud, but I guess I never thought it would still be that loud with a suppressor.:fie:
I definitely agree with those who said how handy they are. Perhaps if you're purpose is to sling large amounts of lead downrange in a close environment they could be adequate.
The Ops M4-S is a shorter version of the 15th/12th model. It *only* adds ~2.5" past the end of the barrel and ~1" past the end of the brake mount for the Ops cans. Doing the math, that turns a 7.5" barrel AR into a 10" AR, although the 10" would be ~ another .75" longer with an A2 FH so lets call it 11". Which then leads to the real question, which is how does the 7.5" w/ M4-S sound compared to a 10.5" w/ A2? If it's quieter, then I'd say there is something accomplished, even if it does weigh more, as it's saving 1"+ as well.
Stepping up to the 300 BLK, while also offering some negatives, may offer even more in the way of advantages and benefits, and I'm interested to hear more about the Surefire mini-762 can that's been mentioned as it may offer more still with the right ammo choice.
turdbocharged
10-14-11, 09:30
Rob, I am in the same line of thinking you are. Definitely saving my pennies for one of those.
The M4-S, at one time, was something like $250. I feel like an idiot for not having bought one then, since I already have another Ops can.
Which then leads to the real question, which is how does the 7.5" w/ M4-S sound compared to a 10.5" w/ A2? If it's quieter, then I'd say there is something accomplished, even if it does weigh more, as it's saving 1"+ as well.
To my ears, it was definitely more comfortable shooting the 7.5" with the M4-S than it was my 11.5" with A2 FH. It's an improvement, the can is worth it even though it's not a full-on suppressor in the conventional sense. That is my completely subjective opinion. I am getting one for my 11.5" uppers.
The M4-S, at one time, was something like $250. I feel like an idiot for not having bought one then, since I already have another Ops can.
Its only $275 right now...
Magic_Salad0892
10-14-11, 22:03
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1377.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1381.jpg
...Are those supposed to be zombies?
Lmfao.
BTW: If those accounts of 7.5'' systems are true, then I might be wrong.
Still, 5.56mm isn't my first choice for that gun.
Question for the experts. Does a round GAIN velocity with a suppressor?? So if I'm running just an 8 inch barrel and the round isn't hitting the magic number to fragment, "could" a suppressor give it enough velocity to do so?? I realize the suppressor negates some of the advantages of the extremely short guns, but I'm curious if anyone has seen significant increases in velocity.
I digress.
Here is the gun/bag combo I keep with me, although the gear inside changes depending on location and season.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0395.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0394.jpg
Here is the PSD in use during a recent TV show we worked on with Kyle Defoor. You can see how maneuverable the gun is around vehicles.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1366.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1377.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1381.jpg
Is that Defoor coming across the drivers' side there? lol
Its only $275 right now...
Who has them in stock? They were all unavailable for a little bit.
Who has them in stock? They were all unavailable for a little bit.
Rob - Check with ADCO.
Yes, I just e-mailed Steve yesterday, ADCO has them.
Sorry for the slow reply.
Listen guys, I'm not in this thread to sell a ****ing thing. I know short AR's have a terrible rep. I know some suppressor manufacturers won't warranty a can on a gun like that. I know 5.56 isn't ideal out of a platform like this. I have PLENTY of AR's, and this one runs better than most, suppressed or not. It is easily concealable, same controls I'm used to and can use all the accessories I already have. Well worth it in my opinion.
As for the photos, yes, zombies. For this show:
http://www.facebook.com/ZombiesALivingHistory
Yes, Kyle coming out the other door. Nothing like real dudes using real kit to have a bunch of fun. :D
The show airs in a couple weeks and we did a Tshirt along with it. I'll throw up some artwork soon.
Looking forward to the show.
Artwork from the new tshirt.
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/DOUBLE_TAP_MOCKUP01.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
10-21-11, 14:29
As for the photos, yes, zombies.
You're breaking rule #17.
Don't be a hero.
...Unless the car was out of gas I guess. :p
turdbocharged
10-21-11, 15:08
What's the overall length of a 7.5"AR with an M4 stock? just curious.
My Diablo with the comp comes in at 24.5" give er take a hair. That comp is big so should be right around there for 7.5 to 8 I'd say.
Has anyone ever Chrono'd a 7.5"?
I wonder what the velocity is on say M855 and a .223
A couple of years ago I did some testing with a variety of duty ammunition from a 7.5 inch Noveske (and a few others).
Off the top of my head, the 7.5 inch barrel with one specific NATO spec pressure load pushed 2100+ fps. (factory loading, partition bullet, military brass). Most of the other brands were just above 1950 to 2050 fps.
Here is the PSD in use during a recent TV show we worked on with Kyle Defoor. You can see how maneuverable the gun is around vehicles.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1366.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1377.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_1381.jpg
Ha I'm watching Kyle now and I saw the scene from these pics on the History Channel's documentary "Zombies: A Living History.
GlocksInMySocks
10-26-11, 10:43
Ha, i was watching that last night thinking, man, they actually have legit gear. Usually it's just some crap they pulled off a prop shelf
It was pretty fun doing that shit. I wish more of what Kyle and I did made it to the show!! Maybe I can score some of the footage from the producers.
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