View Full Version : AMD-65 vs Kino
Both have a 12.5" barrel. Both fairly lighter weight. I prefer the ergonomics and point shoot effectiveness of the AR platform.
I think a red dot type sight is a must, and haven't found a solution I like with the AK platform. I lean toward the micro-dot and the docter/trijjon 1oz reflex types to keep weight down.
This 12.5" barrel length is a good compromise for in home defense and range work. I am old enough to admit I will never engage in a gun fight over 100m, if Sh** get's that bad I'm taking cover. So I am very drawn to the 12.5" barrel rifle carbine as it potentially is a better go to HD weapon than a shotgun or full sized pistol, especially if you have arthritis/hand shaking. Quick shot placement is what it boils down to and you just can't beat a small carbine.
They are giving away AMD-65's straight from Hungary for $400 also the 12.5 BCM (non Kino'd) upper is $400. Leaving plenty budget for the stamp. Unfortunately a 12.5" pencil AR upper is no where to be found and building one would run near $700 since the price for the barrel assembly is $350. You are forced into an 11.5" upper if you want the LW profile.
Ammo, I think for self defense out of the shorter barrel the WC HP 7.62x39 at 25 cents per round beats anything under $1 per round in 5.56?
But can you really make quick accurate point shoot trype shot placement with a red-dot optic on an AMD-65, if so what mount? I've seen the ultimak, but don't like the idea of cooking a $500 optic. What about these new Ak FS leaf type mounts? The dog leg weaver rail mounts are too heavy I think and too close to the eye On the other hand the AR platform ammo just seems optimized for longer barrels, especially the stuff available to non-LEO. Having trouble deciding which way to go with this.
Opinions?
KalashniKEV
10-12-11, 12:18
They are giving away AMD-65's straight from Hungary for $400...
Where????
Are you sure it's not airsoft?
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AEG_AEP_LCT_LCT_AMD_65_Version_C.htm
Get the AMD spec Ultimak - you will not fry your Aimpoint Micro.
Where????
Are you sure it's not airsoft?
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AEG_AEP_LCT_LCT_AMD_65_Version_C.htm
Center Fire Systems: http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN-AMD-2.aspx
I love my AMD-65. It handles the best out of any AK I've fondled. It is lighter than the more "normal" versions of the AK/AKM. For SD/HD that brake has got to go. It kills recoil and muzzle rise but OMFG is it loud and it enhances the muzzle flash. As if that even seemed possible. Actually the shorter barrel of the AMD enhances accurracy-not as whippy. 7.62 rounds out of that 12.5" tube are still doing ~2100fps or so.
BTW-WTF is a Kino???
Center Fire Systems: http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN-AMD-2.aspx
Damn wish I would've seen this yesterday before I bought a new glock. Day late and a buck short is my lifes motto.
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-11, 00:58
Go with the Kino.
The M4 systems has a lot more advantages than the AK system, IMHO.
Weight, accuracy, modularity, ergonomics, suppressor options, lethality (IMHO), etc.
There are bullets that work well from shorter barrels in 5.56mm.
Winchester's new 64 gr. bonded round comes to mind.
Mk. 262 works very well, and I want to try out Mk. 262 Mod. 01.
I love my AMD-65. It handles the best out of any AK I've fondled. It is lighter than the more "normal" versions of the AK/AKM. For SD/HD that brake has got to go. It kills recoil and muzzle rise but OMFG is it loud and it enhances the muzzle flash. As if that even seemed possible. Actually the shorter barrel of the AMD enhances accurracy-not as whippy. 7.62 rounds out of that 12.5" tube are still doing ~2100fps or so.
BTW-WTF is a Kino???
Correct me if Im wrong but the kino is essentially a 12.5 barrel dissapator using a carbine length gas system under a mid length hanguard and fsb.
Magic_Salad0892
10-13-11, 01:21
Correct me if Im wrong but the kino is essentially a 12.5 barrel dissapator using a carbine length gas system under a mid length hanguard and fsb.
Yep. Low pro gas block.
KalashniKEV
10-13-11, 05:40
Center Fire Systems: http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN-AMD-2.aspx
WOW... that's a smokin' deal!
Both have a 12.5" barrel.
Yeah, that brake is begging to come off.
That gun has a barrel over 16" before the 2" AMD brake is installed... making it longer than any other AK. I guess they couldn't find anymore of the stubby extensions or extended AMD style brakes.
http://centerfiresystems.com/productimages/long_guns/AKAGUN-AMD_rt-D.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Rifles/amd2.jpg
My AMD is a great rifle, and very accurate. You certainly wouldn't be disappointed with the FEG product.
(Now I wish they would bring in AMD-63's at that price!)
snackgunner
10-13-11, 06:49
You are forced into an 11.5" upper if you want the LW profile.
Opinions?
Daniel Defense makes 12.5" CHF LW uppers
WOW... that's a smokin' deal!
Yeah, that brake is begging to come off.
That gun has a barrel over 16" before the 2" AMD brake is installed... making it longer than any other AK. I guess they couldn't find anymore of the stubby extensions or extended AMD style brakes.
http://centerfiresystems.com/productimages/long_guns/AKAGUN-AMD_rt-D.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Rifles/amd2.jpg
My AMD is a great rifle, and very accurate. You certainly wouldn't be disappointed with the FEG product.
(Now I wish they would bring in AMD-63's at that price!)
I think it is a ~14" barrel and a 2" brake for a total of 16"
WOW... that's a smokin' deal!
Yeah, that brake is begging to come off.
That gun has a barrel over 16" before the 2" AMD brake is installed... making it longer than any other AK. I guess they couldn't find anymore of the stubby extensions or extended AMD style brakes.
http://centerfiresystems.com/productimages/long_guns/AKAGUN-AMD_rt-D.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Rifles/amd2.jpg
My AMD is a great rifle, and very accurate. You certainly wouldn't be disappointed with the FEG product.
(Now I wish they would bring in AMD-63's at that price!)
Top image is a ~12" barrel + 2" extension + 2" muzzle brake.
KalashniKEV
10-13-11, 12:18
Top image is a ~12" barrel + 2" extension + 2" muzzle brake.
Hmmm... it looks like you're correct.
It just looks a heck of a lot longer than what every other Non-SBR'd AMD-65 wears:
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30042
ak mini dot mount.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421
Top image is a ~12" barrel + 2" extension + 2" muzzle brake.
is the extension and break easy to remove if i want to sbr this? pinned and welded? silver soldered? etc...
also, does CenterFire build their own aks? i have ahad a couple horrible century builds and one was an amd65. makes me shy away from the ak even though i really do respect it.
is the extension and break easy to remove if i want to sbr this? pinned and welded? silver soldered? etc...
also, does CenterFire build their own aks? i have ahad a couple horrible century builds and one was an amd65. makes me shy away from the ak even though i really do respect it.
I don't think CFS builds the amd. I've handled/shot three of the bulgarian aks from them and own one. They've all be good shooters and well worth the price. They were built by TGI out of Tenessee and sold through CFS.
ak mini dot mount.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421
Ultimak makes a tube specifically for the AMD as well: http://ultimak.com/m7.htm
Shouldn't be very hard with 20min, some patience and a dremel. I think it would take me longer to fill out the BATFE form for the SBR than for me to remove my extension.
I have shot real AMD's and they are crap. Now the reconfigured AK pictured above is nice, but I am sure that it wasn't cheap to get there.
I have shot real AMD's and they are crap. Now the reconfigured AK pictured above is nice, but I am sure that it wasn't cheap to get there.
Because of the wire stock or the build quality?
I can't bring myself to pick up an AMD, too bad they don't import some FEG built AKMs, those would be hot sellers for the ~$400 that the AMD goes for
KalashniKEV
10-14-11, 14:27
I have shot real AMD's and they are crap. Now the reconfigured AK pictured above is nice, but I am sure that it wasn't cheap to get there.
Actually, my two AMDs are pretty solid performers... whether that's due to the FEG barrel itself being superior, or the short barrel having improved harmonics and less flex, I don't know.
The gun above prints Silver Bear pretty darn tight.
Also, if you are talking about my gun... it was CHEAP.
$89 AMD-65 kit
$60 Global Trades Rec
$40 TAPCO G2 FCG
$50 TAPCO SAW/ M4 combo
$12 10-32 Screw Set
~$30 Shipping all and transfer (I did 8 receivers for $20)
$200 Stamp
$481
Unfortunately, those days are gone now. Thank the Executive Branch (BATFE) for inventing and enforcing their own law when they dreamed up the concept of a "non-sporting barrel."
I don't know if it because these things were worn or what, but I wasn't impressed. However, I have always been a big fan of Hungarian AK's as it was my first and they are actually very well made.
Actually, my two AMDs are pretty solid performers... whether that's due to the FEG barrel itself being superior, or the short barrel having improved harmonics and less flex, I don't know.
The gun above prints Silver Bear pretty darn tight.
Also, if you are talking about my gun... it was CHEAP.
$89 AMD-65 kit
$60 Global Trades Rec
$40 TAPCO G2 FCG
$50 TAPCO SAW/ M4 combo
$12 10-32 Screw Set
~$30 Shipping all and transfer (I did 8 receivers for $20)
$200 Stamp
$481
Unfortunately, those days are gone now. Thank the Executive Branch (BATFE) for inventing and enforcing their own law when they dreamed up the concept of a "non-sporting barrel."
I can't bring myself to pick up an AMD, too bad they don't import some FEG built AKMs, those would be hot sellers for the ~$400 that the AMD goes for
No doubt, I'd snatch up a dozen AK-63s if they were $400 per. Hell, I'd go for AMD-63s for $400 in a heartbeat.
TriumphRat675
10-17-11, 18:40
CJ Chivers had some interesting blog posts about how much the AMD's suck. They are universally hated by the Afghans we dole them out to.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/one-poor-choice-in-arming-the-afghans-and-its-repercussions/
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/on-the-muzzle-brake-of-the-amd-65-and-other-reader-contributions/
KalashniKEV
10-19-11, 12:10
CJ Chivers had some interesting blog posts about how much the AMD's suck. They are universally hated by the Afghans we dole them out to.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/one-poor-choice-in-arming-the-afghans-and-its-repercussions/
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/on-the-muzzle-brake-of-the-amd-65-and-other-reader-contributions/
That's really interesting...
I think the author's bias is clear, or at least his basic level of knowledge when he says:
...the Kalashnikov knock-off used by the Afghan police had a significantly shorter barrel than the Kalashnikovs’ carried by the Taliban, and that as a result the police officers’ rifles had a shorter effective range than the insurgents’ typical rifles.
Absurd "knock-off" comment aside, we as students of arms know that the 7.62x39mm round is effected far less per inch of barrel removed than any 5.56x45mm weapon due to the simple characteristics of the round.
Does anyone sweat the accuracy advantage of a 16" AR and a 12.5"?
I don't... particularly when it's a 12.5" Noveske Crusader up against a shot out basic grade gun, which I think would be a decent analogy for a new-ish Feg AMD vs. a shot out Izhmash that has seen multiple wars.
He's absolutely right about the AMD handguards though... no argument there. I think the offset grip is exaggerated though.
As for the stock? I prefer it to some designs… not others.
I would also point out that he throws the internet knowledge “designed for armored troops” when the name of the rifle is Automata Módosított Deszant, or Assault Rifle Model- Paratrooper. Yes, it is true that many were fielded to the vast Soviet armored formations.
I served my first tour as an advisor in Iraq to the 18th SIB fielding the Bulgarian AKs, ATN NODs, Codan radios, and F-350s and then my second tour to 3-17-4 IA and 10th Iraqi Commando Bn fielding AR types, PVS-7s, western radios, and M1114s.
The grass is always greener on the other side and Hadj’ is always gonna bitch.
I can see that it’s no different in Afghanistan…
Thing about it these are actually built in Hungaria by FEG, real combloc receiver and barrel. Come's in the states with a single stack magwel, that's the "catch". Its a roll of the dice whether the magwell was done properly by TGI. I figured for $400 I'm not going to have that sort of opportunity very often. I wanted to go with an AR for my first tax stamp but considering the expensive ammo to get anything near 7.62x39 (both with 12" barrels) this just seamed a risk worth taking.
The thing is damn light for an AK, probably lighter than most AR builds and I think the $200 stamp will be worth it to get rid of the silly muzzel extension.
If I were ever in a gunfight in and out of vehicles, this one would be tough to beat as far cheap "barrier" blind ammo and manuvearbility. Its ashame we are at the mercy of an importer's untrained amorers opening the magwell, but thats the risk you take with foreign AK's.
As far as the AR I am waiting to see how this blackout thing pans out, if the ammo becomes plentiful, reasonably priced and a small reflex can is designed for the blackout and not NATO 7.62 I could see making the investment.
IIRC the AMD-65 is 1lb lighter than a standard AKM. Place called amd65tech.com sells a riser for the stock that gets good reviews on the web. If you have the plastic grips a little hacksaw action to shorten the front grip will make 30rd mag changes much smoother.
Looking forward to pics and range report.
KalashniKEV
10-26-11, 12:28
If you have the plastic grips a little hacksaw action to shorten the front grip will make 30rd mag changes much smoother.
You would have to have some seriously bizarre-o swooping mag change technique to contact the angled foregrip on an AMD.
You would have to have some seriously bizarre-o swooping mag change technique to contact the angled foregrip on an AMD.
Is the civi version different, perhaps the handle is set farther back? I checked one out at a gun show and the 30 rounder mag was about 1/8" from the back of the handle when taking it out. I can see where trying to do it in hurry would be problematic. Especially if you go with the bash -n- swap method.
KalashniKEV
10-26-11, 15:50
Is the civi version different, perhaps the handle is set farther back?
Same handguard.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/dwhitehorne/IMG_2884.jpg
In order for the floorplate, or any part of the mag to contact the foregrip, the lip of the mag would have to be well clear of the engagement surface on the front trunnion.
I can see where trying to do it in hurry would be problematic. Especially if you go with the bash -n- swap method.
Actually it's almost impossible to contact the grip when inserting a mag, unless you come from way in front of the rifle (or at least at the handguard area) and swoop backwards before changing direction to seat the lip and then rocking into engagement... it would be a very clumsy, awkward method to adopt.
As far as removing a mag... you could possibly get enough flip to contact the foregrip if you continued rotating the mag after the lug had been released in the rear of the mag, and the lip cleared. That would be a lot of unnecessary movement though.
And the bash method? Why??
Same handguard.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/dwhitehorne/IMG_2884.jpg
In order for the floorplate, or any part of the mag to contact the foregrip, the lip of the mag would have to be well clear of the engagement surface on the front trunnion.
Actually it's almost impossible to contact the grip when inserting a mag, unless you come from way in front of the rifle (or at least at the handguard area) and swoop backwards before changing direction to seat the lip and then rocking into engagement... it would be a very clumsy, awkward method to adopt.
As far as removing a mag... you could possibly get enough flip to contact the foregrip if you continued rotating the mag after the lug had been released in the rear of the mag, and the lip cleared. That would be a lot of unnecessary movement though.
And the bash method? Why??
Bash method.. to be cool like video games of course! :suicide2:
I didn't study the amd much at the show as I was busy looking for other goodies. Here is the method that caused the closeness.
1. Push mag release
2. Rotate mag forward until the bump that locks the mag in is clear of the mag release
At that point the mag was very close to the front grip. Maybe they had done something or maybe I'm an idiot. But removing the mag on the amd last saturday the same way I do on my ak resulted in almost contacting the front grip. Heck might have been a 40 rounder but it sure didn't look retardedly large to me like the 40s do.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.