View Full Version : My Springfield XD9 experiance
I bought a XD9 service 2 weeks ago and I loved it... shot about 450 rounds through it without a single hic-up.
I took my CCW class on Saturaday and while I was qualifiing for the proficiency test, the weapon jammed... FTF :mad: all my trust in this weapon went out the window.
I went back to Cableas this morning and they bought back the XD9 and I replaces it with a S&W M&P 9c, I hope this one will be more dependable.
Bri
Jay Cunningham
11-18-07, 16:13
I bought a XD9 service 2 weeks ago and I loved it... shot about 450 rounds through it without a single hic-up.
I took my CCW class on Saturaday and while I was qualifiing for the proficiency test, the weapon jammed... FTF :mad: all my trust in this weapon went out the window.
I went back to Cableas this morning and they bought back the XD9 and I replaces it with a S&W M&P 9c, I hope this one will be more dependable.
Bri
What do you mean by "jammed"?
Failure2Stop
11-18-07, 16:25
I think you made an excellent choice, but for a reason that is a little over-demanding.
One failure to feed (I assume that's what you mean by the FTF) out of 450 rounds? Not that I would expect a failure to feed at 450, but if that pistol then spat out 2,000 failure free rounds, would you still hate it?
I am not a big fan of the XDs, but I have not personally experienced or witessed stoppages that were not shooter or ammunition related. I think that the M&P9 is a far superior pistol, but what if it too experiences a stoppage (and eventually, it will)?
Stoppages are a way of life, we do what we can to minimize them, but corrective action must always be part of our personal training.
my .02, worth less due to the falling dollar.
Fail to feed... I couldn't cycle the slide back so I slammed the slide forward. then the round went to the chamber.
Bri
If your weapon has never malfunctioned, you probably haven't shot it enough.
Bob
Its not that I dont expect a jam but it happen at one of the worst times. it was a timed test :( It pissed me off!!!!
Bri
Well I can't say that a failure is OK with me anytime. Most of my firearms serve as protectors in some capacity or another. I would try my best to investigate the cause. Depending on the cause would determine my level of trust in a paticular weapon. I've never had a malfunction of any kind with HK's and Sigs in 9mm and 357. Did have a couple in a Sig 229 in .40 sw. Glock have been ok but I've two G19's that were dependable for jams and a G17 that shot about 5inchs left. Almost had to drift the rear out of it's dovetail to correct.
Now some will say 'if you don't have malfunctions, you'r not shooting enough'. BULL SH*T...... I've shot a few hundred THOUSAND rounds through handguns and absolutley debunk that statement. These statements were probably bourne from the 1911 series. They can be tempermental. The improvement in reliability from Sigs,HKs, Glocks etc. is the major reason I dropped the 1911 as a 'trust your life' handgun.
You do have to set yourself for success, what I mean is ammo, mags, lube and maintence.
Ammo is a part of a autoloaders operating system. Go quality, I have never shot anything cheaper than Win. white box (USA), Rem. UMC, CCI Blazer (Brass). If you are determined to shoot cheaper than this then your problems may grow. For 'carry' ammo try to choose a top shelf expanding load. I can't overstate this, FMJ in a handgun for defense makes no sense no matter the caliber.
Mags, these are probably the biggest causes of malfunctions. Try to stay with OEM mags. Don't be afraid to trash a bad mag.
Keeping a defensive weapon cleaned and lubed properly is good insurance.
If you can trace a problem to one of the above I wouldn't condem the handgun just yet. Change the mag, ammo etc. and try again. But don't hold on to a POS gun you intend to defend your life with it.
Jay Cunningham
11-18-07, 18:09
Huge difference between a malfunction/stoppage and a jam.
All these machines can malfunction on occasion. Malfunction clearance can fix 80% of these in the blink of an eye.
I don't believe in "flawless" firearms... just very reliable ones.
rubberneck
11-18-07, 18:11
Its not that I dont expect a jam but it happen at one of the worst times. it was a timed test :( It pissed me off!!!!
Bri
Why do you assume that the failure was caused by the gun and not the ammo? What happens when your M&P chokes on something?
rubberneck
11-18-07, 18:20
Now some will say 'if you don't have malfunctions, you'r not shooting enough'. BULL SH*T...... I've shot a few hundred THOUSAND rounds through handguns and absolutley debunk that statement. These statements were probably bourne from the 1911 series. They can be tempermental. The improvement in reliability from Sigs,HKs, Glocks etc. is the major reason I dropped the 1911 as a 'trust your life' handgun.
And I call bull $hit on your post. You aren't the only one around here with a very high round count. I have been SO'ing IDPA for years and shooting USPSA for nearly as long and I have seen every single major brand choke from time to time, including Sigs, H&K's and Glocks. And no I am not talking about guns being run with bad reloads and poor home gunsmithing but with factory ball ammo and completely stock guns. Anytime you use a mechanical item bulit by man it isn't a question if but when it will fail. Some fail more than others but they all fail even with the best of care.
Ok BS, its all because of those damn 1911's!
Funny I've had plenty of malfunctions with my "perfect" Glock.
Theres a reason malfunction clearance drills exist.
Perhaps the statement was abit over the top, but thats for a reason, so people don't get complacent with there weapon, and don't practice malfunction drills.
If you failed a timed exercise because you couldn't clear a malfunction, oh well, the gun doesn't know the difference, whether its a competition, training, or a real deal situation, but you do. So clear it and move on.
Or, you can call time out, curse the gun, and look at it like a dog looking at a ceiling fan, all while Mr. Bad man beats you silly.
One malfunction in 450 rounds, determine what it was, if it becomes a continous problem, then fix it. For all you know you got the single worse round of ammo ever produced.
Believing any gun is "perfect" and won't "jam" is living in fantasy land.
Bob
variablebinary
11-18-07, 20:21
I bought a XD9 service 2 weeks ago and I loved it... shot about 450 rounds through it without a single hic-up.
I took my CCW class on Saturaday and while I was qualifiing for the proficiency test, the weapon jammed... FTF :mad: all my trust in this weapon went out the window.
I went back to Cableas this morning and they bought back the XD9 and I replaces it with a S&W M&P 9c, I hope this one will be more dependable.
Bri
XD's are junk. What did you expect. My XD starting choking around 1000 rounds. All my friends that XD's experianced the same headaches.
Plenty of people have trouble free XDs...
I love my new M&P but truth be told there have been plenty of reported issues with them that have had to be worked out.
I seem to see/hear more complaints with M&P's than with XD's. I think Glock's & Sig's still reign supreme in 9mm with HK right there. But any one of them can have worts. As for XD's being "junk" well...I would disagree but each pool of experience leads to a different truth.
threefivesevenmag
11-18-07, 22:48
Any mechanical thing can have problems.
I think knowing clearance drills for when a malfunction happens is a good thing.
I've seen guys at matches have their guns malfunction and they stand there staring at it, wondering what the hell am I going to do now? In real life, it'd be over if their lives depended on it.
Tap-rack-attempt to fire. If that doesn't work there are plenty of other drills.
Guns can malfunction for plenty of reasons. Trading it in prematurely isn't a solution.
the1911fan
11-19-07, 03:39
Its not that I dont expect a jam but it happen at one of the worst times. it was a timed test :( It pissed me off!!!!
Bri
That's a GREAT time for it to happen if you are into training seriously as it is a excellent yardstick of how well you are doing with Malf. drills.
I personally would not off a gun until I put 1500-2000 rounds through it (two shooting sessions) and continued to have problems. I have no use for unreliable weapons either but I have had guns that Malf'd in the first 500-1500rounds that ended up being rock solid after the first 1000 or so rounds.
Sounds like the round partially chambered if all you did was push the slide forward to chamber the round...bad brass (even if new)...bad mag...dirty ammo.
Hey i have an XD .45 service model I have pumped hundreds of rounds through it i know I have had one jam. The most amazing thing happened I cleared it & kept firing. Sure if every other round jammed I would say the weapon might be crap but in the mean time I will continue to enjoy my XD.
You should have bought a Glock.
(since this thread is gone to shit anyway :D )
John_Wayne777
11-19-07, 08:09
Well I can't say that a failure is OK with me anytime.
That's a fairly unattainable standard.
Now some will say 'if you don't have malfunctions, you'r not shooting enough'. BULL SH*T...
It's really not.
If you shoot enough under demanding enough conditions you will eventually experience failures of some type for some reason, including ammo issues, magazine issues, and less commonly things like parts breakage. This is especially true as you shoot handguns that have been through tens of thousands of rounds.
... I've shot a few hundred THOUSAND rounds through handguns and absolutley debunk that statement.
A. Are you sure about your round count?
B. Your personal experience is fine and dandy, but it isn't as significant as the accumulated experience of armorers and trainers who have seen wear and tear in issue numbers on various platforms.
These statements were probably bourne from the 1911 series. They can be tempermental. The improvement in reliability from Sigs,HKs, Glocks etc. is the major reason I dropped the 1911 as a 'trust your life' handgun.
I've seen my share of Sigs and Glocks poop the bed too. The 1911 may be the "king of feedway stoppages", but I've seen plenty of Glocks puke, as well as Sigs, Berettas, H&Ks, etc.
Largely the malfunctions I've seen are the result of magazine or ammo problems, which are common and can plague any handgun at any time. Still others have been the result of parts breaking because of wear on the weapon. The smallest number of issues has been QC style stuff...as in parts busting prematurely and rendering the weapon useless, pins walking, etc.
Ammo is a part of a autoloaders operating system. Go quality, I have never shot anything cheaper than Win. white box (USA), Rem. UMC, CCI Blazer (Brass).
I hate to break this to you, but none of that is what I would consider "quality" ammo. Yes, it works most of the time, but I've had plenty of issues with WWB and UMC ammo.
UMC ammo in 9mm is weak and dirty. WWB is dirty but functional, providing they can remember to put a primer on the round. I've got several WWB rounds at home that somebody forgot to put a primer in.
Even "good" ammo can have problems. If you shoot enough you are going to encounter some ammo issues sooner or later. It's a matter of statistical probability. Fire enough rounds and stuff that has a fraction of a percent of a chance of happening on any given round will eventually happen.
Mags, these are probably the biggest causes of malfunctions. Try to stay with OEM mags. Don't be afraid to trash a bad mag.
Keeping a defensive weapon cleaned and lubed properly is good insurance.
If you can trace a problem to one of the above I wouldn't condem the handgun just yet. Change the mag, ammo etc. and try again. But don't hold on to a POS gun you intend to defend your life with it.
Agreed.
bullitt5172
11-19-07, 08:17
One FTF in the 1st 450 and you sold it back, might want to buy a revolver and stay away from the autos. Some just don't understand man made machines. Nothing is 100%, all of the posts above are right on the money.
What amazes me about the OP is that Cabelas just took it back! I'm having hella time getting a trade-in with Sportsmans Warehouse over a PM9 which has (literally) a hundred times more problems than that.
Alpha Sierra
11-19-07, 18:44
One FTF in the 1st 450 and you sold it back, might want to buy a revolver and stay away from the autos.
+1 :confused:
Hey guys.... there is more to the story than I let on. During the CCW class, I learned that the XD was wrong for my hands:confused: Yes.... I have small hands!!!
So, I killed two birds with one stone, make more sense now?
Bri
rubberneck
11-19-07, 19:22
Hey guys.... there is more to the story than I let on. During the CCW class, I learned that the XD was wrong for my hands:confused: Yes.... I have small hands!!!
So, I killed two birds with one stone, make more sense now?
Bri
No not really. As far as double stack pistols go the XD is not on the big side. I wouldn't have taken the gun back from you.
Actually my round count was probably a little conservative. And no a failure is NEVER ok. Period! I don't and never had the money to buy 'gold plated' ammo for training/plinking. These brands have provided me many years of good service. Yes, I've seen some of their problems and have addressed some of them with the manufacturer. It sounds like you expect perfection from the ammo producers. Good luck. You will never find perfection in anything related to the human race. If there ever was a perfect weapon then all others would have gone bankrupt by now.
I have nearly 20 years manufacturing experience and know some of the quality systems and how they are applied. What does this have to do with weapons? Like anything manufactured by any man/company their goal is profits. If a line of products begins to fall out of spec. belive me they are not going to eat all of their product and ship only their best. They will take their best guess and ship product they HOPE will be acceptable. Just ask the NYPD.
If you do find a gun, what ever the make, that has proven itself to be an exceptional performer then for goodness sake, KEEP IT. This has been a school of hard knocks for me. But I've learned it well.
I've competed, I have a very modest collection of trophies(and a state championship) that I'm personally proud of. I certainly am not trying to blow my own horn (or any horn for that matter) but I've shot enough guns, enough rounds, and carried enough on duty and off and have pulled a weapon in near desperate situations that I seek advice from very few and hold very high the ones I do look to for advice. And laugh at a lot of the advice I see being passed off as 'professional' or knowing the '$hit'.
I also worked for one security agency that issued S&W .38's and was slighty suprised to see two revolvers go down for the count.
So there you go. Nothing truly is perfect. But keep looking, I certainly will.
And no a failure is NEVER ok. Period!
They're not "ok" with me either but I do know that they WILL happen. Period, full stop, end of story. Be prepared for it.
rubberneck
11-20-07, 14:38
And no a failure is NEVER ok. Period!
Who the hell said they were in this thread? Understanding that they can and will occur and preparing yourself to deal with them is a world apart from saying that they are ok.
I've competed, I have a very modest collection of trophies(and a state championship) that I'm personally proud of. I certainly am not trying to blow my own horn (or any horn for that matter) but I've shot enough guns, enough rounds, and carried enough on duty and off and have pulled a weapon in near desperate situations that I seek advice from very few and hold very high the ones I do look to for advice. And laugh at a lot of the advice I see being passed off as 'professional' or knowing the '$hit'.
Well aren't you special. This isn't TOS. If you think you are alone in that boat here you are sorely mistaken.
This isn't TOS.
That's what I was thinking the whole time I read that reply. TOS flashback! :eek:
You're 100% right, everyone one should know clearence drills. And yes this is a refreshing board. I've never been a great communicator and I've never seen any replies on this site that have rubbed me the wrong way. But sometimes I get a little tired of the gunshop (and 'net') commandos giving out their worldly wisdom to someone in need.
A lot of people don't have very much experinece or drive to aquire any. They simply want a gun that will protect their famlies and for some reason (hollywood maybe) they must have an auto. I have been shocked at some of the advice thrown out.
Looking back at some of these post's I think I skewed off track from the point I was trying to get accross and the things that sometimes frustrate me a little.
Maybe you know some of these things, like people stating that Glocks are the best ever and everthing else is $h*t (or insert what ever brand mr commando likes). I recall a post on one of the other sites that went something like ' a 9mm is just a .45 set on stun'.
I mean to state what your fav is and why you like is great. And humor is a good thing. But to say 'this is the best and that's the gospel' I think it's irresponsible and harmful to many new and young shooters.
The fellow that started out with the XD, he may not have considered the problem may have not been with the gun itself and if selling it back and getting something else gives him better confidence then good on him. I just hope people don't give up after running in to some of the crap I described. Some of the most appaling things I've heard have been local, some shop employee or gun show vendor trying to make a sell and not caring a bit about the soul looking for help. I guess with age and wisdom you aquire something of a BS meter, I wish everyone could smell it before they step in it.
I don't think I know it all about anything, I really hope it didn't sound that way. I used so many Sig's, Glock's and HK's that I don't do much research on them anymore unless it is a new item. But lately I've been reading, asking questions and just digging in as best I can on the S&W M&P9. I have gotten a TON of helpful info here and from one other site. The posts by the STAFF here have been expectionally helpful. Now I pick up my first one tomorrow. There is a lot of good and helpful people here, I hope I might contribute something helpful to someone from the small slice of experience I have gathered. I've not posted anything directed toward anyone I've met here, I hope it didn't come across that way.
I hope this says it a little better.
I hope this says it a little better.
Personally I don't think you need to justify anything. It is, or was, your gun to do with as you see fit.
The mysterious, unexplained jam can sometimes be blamed on the extracted case hitting the lip of the top round in the magazine. The meticulous shooter can run his carry rounds through a taper crimp die to lessen the chances of this mishap.
In 9mm, there is great variation in dimensions in this tapered case from one manufacturer to another. No doubt this fact may occur between various lots of the same brand. Within CCI compare cases from the lines of Blazer aluminum, Brazer Brass, and the other grades like Lawman and Gold Dot with each other. You will see differences. Now compare these groups with other 9mm cases within the ammo universe, and you will continue to see variations. You can do similar comparisons within .45acp cases and find differences.
Have you noticed that your high cap mag loaded with 9mm rds rattles sometimes and not other times. The case taper causes the rattle--cases do not lie flat one on another. Some brands will rattle in some mags and not in others. This odd fact is brought about by the interplay between case variation and mag dimension variation. Could this circumstance cause an occasional malfunction?
Take time to identify mags that work properly. Junk the ones that you suspect of being inferior. Do NOT save these for plinking, etc. Discard.
The high volume and serious shooter might consider 3 pistols: one to be shooting, one in reserve, and a third in the shop being maintained.
Williejc
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