View Full Version : SBR build plans. what do you think? looking for advice/info
I'm planning on building this setup and wanted to get some advice. everything adds up to right at $1,832(minus BUIS and optics) and before stamp/engraving of lower. or i can just get the complete rifle from a dealer on here for $2,199. just trying to figure out which way would be the smartest route.
also if anyone knows where i can get the parts listed cheaper post up or pm me. (or if i forgot something please inform me)
Noveske Light shorty switchblock upper (member on here) $1,266
Noveske Gen II Lower Reciever (G&R tac.) $245?
G&R tac. Opt 2 LPK:
H-Buffer (if i should go with a different buffer for a 10.5" lower let me know... will also end up as a primarily suppressed rifle)
Tactical Springs CS Blue Buffer spring
LMT rec. extention
LMT castle nut
Noveske QD plate
Magpul MOE FDE grip (G&R tac.) $214
Magpul CTR stock FDE (G&R tac.) $92
Magpul Rail Vert Grip FDE (G&R tac.) $15
edit :update 2/9/12
I'm planning on building this setup and wanted to get some advice. everything adds up to right at $2,050 before stamp/engraving of lower. or i can just get the complete rifle from a dealer on here for $2,199. just trying to figure out which way would be the smartest route.
also if anyone knows where i can get the parts listed cheaper post up or pm me. (or if i forgot something please inform me)
Noveske Light shorty switchblock upper (member on here) $1,266
Noveske Gen II Lower Reciever (Rainier Arms) $245
G&R tac. Opt 4 LPK, lmt rec., lmt cas. nut, tac spring, Nov QD (G&R tac.) $211
Magpul CTR stock (G&R tac.) $92
Magpul Rail Vert Grip (G&R tac.) $15
Magpul MOE K Grip (Rainier Arms) $18.95
Troy BUIS (Rainier Arms) $199.95
My suggestion would be to go through a dealer and get a factory SBR. That way the damn thing will at least have some resale value should you decide to sell it later on down the road. Form 1 guns don't really keep that much residual value.
My suggestion would be to go through a dealer and get a factory SBR. That way the damn thing will at least have some resale value should you decide to sell it later on down the road. Form 1 guns don't really keep that much residual value.
:agree: Javelin nailed it.
With a purchase this big, pinching a few pennies is foolish IMHO. Get a factory Nosveske and know you have nothing to worry about. Factory warranty, factory checkout, better resale down the road, etc.
My suggestion would be to go through a dealer and get a factory SBR. That way the damn thing will at least have some resale value should you decide to sell it later on down the road. Form 1 guns don't really keep that much residual value.
You mean because of the engraving?
You mean because of the engraving?
Would you rather own one made by Noveske or some random gun plumber? Would you rather spend the engraving money on Noveske's assembly skills and R&D or the artwork of your local trophy shop's engraver?
NoveskeFan
10-22-11, 08:03
Once your lower is SBR'd (NFA approved), you can put any upper on it. You can also remove the lower from the NFA registry. Losing money is negligible if you plan on always having the SBR lower. You can always sell the upper.
NoveskeFan
10-22-11, 08:11
Would you rather own one made by Noveske or some random gun plumber? Would you rather spend the engraving money on Noveske's assembly skills and R&D or the artwork of your local trophy shop's engraver?
Or build it yourself using quality parts and a known engraver. Saving money is fine, but IMO, Form 1 a lower and you only need the uppers from there on out.
If you have to proper tools, the know how and the money I would consider doing it yourself. If you don't meet those criteria, then buy one.
I decided to build my own because there was not set up out there the way I wanted it, with the options that wasn't going to cost alot money. I saved quite a bit by doing it myself, even after paying the tax stamp.
Would you rather own one made by Noveske or some random gun plumber? Would you rather spend the engraving money on Noveske's assembly skills and R&D or the artwork of your local trophy shop's engraver?
I don't see it as a big deal. Your point might have some validity if the rifle were "plumbed" from suspect components, but a pretty simple inspection of the rifle, test firing, and inventory of the component parts will provide reasonable attestation to the rifle's overall quality. That includes info on who actually did the engraving. Personally, I have complete confidence in the engraving skill of Ident Marking or Orion Arms...one doesn't have to use the local trophy shop. Nevertheless, I understand your point relative to buying a rifle engraved with someone else's name, no matter the engraving quality nor how discreet the location, and whether or not the rifle had been removed from the NFA rolls. That was the point of my question.
For me, the concept is pretty moot since I don't ever envision actually selling any of them, but if I did, my most likely victims are going to be friends or colleagues who are going to be OK with my plumbing skills. To anyone to whom I'm likely to sell any of my SBRs, my skills as a gun plumber (such as they are) are a known quantity...I'm not a "random gun plumber".
Why all the concern about the lower? Once you remove and sell the SBR upper and don't retain any other shorty uppers its' now just a standard lower.
Most people end up selling their SBR uppers, if they do and not the whole weapon.
I would say the best choice is a factory gun.
I am planning to build my next SBR as soon as I make the time. I have all of the parts and tools. I want to build it to gain a better understanding of my guns.
I would suggest you check the EE for your sights and the stock too. You will save big bucks here on the EE.
Why all the concern about the lower? Once you remove and sell the SBR upper and don't retain any other shorty uppers its' now just a standard lower.
Most people end up selling their SBR uppers, if they do and not the whole weapon.
Exactly. All this fuctardation over engraving a 100 dollar receiver. I personally don't spend my time gazing at my lower's markings. So I couldn't give a shit less...
As long as it doesn't say Olympic Arms or LWRCi on the side, I'm not worried.
Exactly. All this fuctardation over engraving a 100 dollar receiver. I personally don't spend my time gazing at my lower's markings. So I couldn't give a shit less...
As long as it doesn't say Olympic Arms or LWRCi on the side, I'm not worried.
Because the OP is wanting a Noveske and not some franken BCM/Staggun and further more the cost savings do not justify the means.
If two SBR lowers are placed before most folks on this forum (or any for that matter) and one is factory Noveske and the other has Richard Kimball Trust, Maddisonville, TX engraved on the damn thing... all things being equal - they will choose the factory Noveske. I think even Richard Kimball of Maddisonville, TX would have preferred to have the lower from the factory too especially considering Noveske's no BS lifetime warranty.
I just feel like I am talking to myself sometimes.
Javelin,
You are missing the point. Ok, let me try and break this down. I know what the OP was asking as he isn't the first, nor the last.
If he wants to do it cheaper or the smarter route (building it yourself can be an option). The lower is irrelevant because unless someone is obsessed with a rollmark, it doesn't make sense. Unless it is a special lower.
In addition you will have a much easier time selling the upper separately (which means no 200.00 tax and no BS) than you would trying to sell the entire weapon.
So he could keep the lower and then add whatever upper he wants to it (let's say a 16") and everyone is happy.
So at the end of the day if those two lowers you mentioned were sitting on a table, yes the one without markings would be a seller. But, I wouldn't buy it when I know that I could save money and use an exisiting registered lower, use one in my safe and register it at my leisure or any other number of things. I hope this makes a little more sense now.
Because the OP is wanting a Noveske and not some franken BCM/Staggun and further more the cost savings do not justify the means.
If two SBR lowers are placed before most folks on this forum (or any for that matter) and one is factory Noveske and the other has Richard Kimball Trust, Maddisonville, TX engraved on the damn thing... all things being equal - they will choose the factory Noveske. I think even Richard Kimball of Maddisonville, TX would have preferred to have the lower from the factory too especially considering Noveske's no BS lifetime warranty.
I just feel like I am talking to myself sometimes.
Javelin,
You are missing the point. Ok, let me try and break this down. I know what the OP was asking as he isn't the first, nor the last.
If he wants to do it cheaper or the smarter route (building it yourself can be an option). The lower is irrelevant because unless someone is obsessed with a rollmark, it doesn't make sense. Unless it is a special lower.
In addition you will have a much easier time selling the upper separately (which means no 200.00 tax and no BS) than you would trying to sell the entire weapon.
So he could keep the lower and then add whatever upper he wants to it (let's say a 16") and everyone is happy.
So at the end of the day if those two lowers you mentioned were sitting on a table, yes the one without markings would be a seller. But, I wouldn't buy it when I know that I could save money and use an exisiting registered lower, use one in my safe and register it at my leisure or any other number of things. I hope this makes a little more sense now.
IG, you make a lot of sense here. I can easily see your logic.
To the OP. I added up your totals and came up with a total cost of $2,047.90. I just purchased a complete Noveske 10.5" with Switchblock for not much more than what you are planning on putting together. If I knew enough to put one together competely myself and wanted the satisfaction of doing that then I'd go your route. I don't know enough to do that by the way. However, purchasing a complete weapon from a quality manufacturer like Noveske and having the warranty also is very attractive. In the future I might do it all myself. For now I have a complete weapon on the way from Noveske.
Getting a factory gun because you want a factory gun is cool. But worrying about resale or marketability on a $100 AR lower is nuts. If I have an SBR, I'm NEVER selling it.
It's not worth the ass ache. I'd get rid of my SBS in a minute if it weren't for the transfer hastle.
But like an AR lower, an SBS isn't worth enough money for me to deal with an ATF transfer like it would be for a 10k dollar Machine gun.
Aren't the uppers under warranty? I'm pretty mine was. So if he buys a good lower and uses a good parts kit, then he shouldn't have any issues, correct?
IG, you make a lot of sense here. I can easily see your logic.
To the OP. I added up your totals and came up with a total cost of $2,047.90. I just purchased a complete Noveske 10.5" with Switchblock for not much more than what you are planning on putting together. If I knew enough to put one together competely myself and wanted the satisfaction of doing that then I'd go your route. However, purchasing a complete weapon from a quality manufacturer like Noveske and having the warranty also is very attractive. In the future I might do it all myself. For now I have a complete weapon on the way from Noveske.
Javelin,
You are missing the point. Ok, let me try and break this down. I know what the OP was asking as he isn't the first, nor the last.
If he wants to do it cheaper or the smarter route (building it yourself can be an option). The lower is irrelevant because unless someone is obsessed with a rollmark, it doesn't make sense. Unless it is a special lower.
In addition you will have a much easier time selling the upper separately (which means no 200.00 tax and no BS) than you would trying to sell the entire weapon.
So he could keep the lower and then add whatever upper he wants to it (let's say a 16") and everyone is happy.
So at the end of the day if those two lowers you mentioned were sitting on a table, yes the one without markings would be a seller. But, I wouldn't buy it when I know that I could save money and use an exisiting registered lower, use one in my safe and register it at my leisure or any other number of things. I hope this makes a little more sense now.
I see what you are saying and I agree with your points. I am just jaded about the Form 1's and it shows. ;)
Aren't the uppers under warranty? I'm pretty mine was. So if he buys a good lower and uses a good parts kit, then he shouldn't have any issues, correct?
Correct. Not contradicting you at all. My main point is that I am purchasing a factory weapon very similar to his for about the same money and I don't have any worries about messing up the build myself. If anything is wrong I have the manufacturer to go back to. If I was as accomplished an amorer as you are, and I say that with all due respect, I'd certainly build it myself.
been giving this alot of thought lately as im getting close to making a purchase. a big part of me still wants to start with just a complete upper because of the added expense of buying all FDE furniture which is what i'm wanting to do. i can save some cost by just building the lower w/ the FDE parts i want rather than footing the bill of extra after buying a complete rifle. i know it will suffer some resale value but i'm doing this as something i dont intend to get rid of. besides some cost, my largest concern is quality. i have chosen all quality parts IF i build it myself but will it truly be as good as a factory noveske?
Is this your first build? Or you tenth? If you're asking if it will be as good as a factory "Noveske" I would say you already know the answer is no. You're really the one withall the info.
been giving this alot of thought lately as im getting close to making a purchase. a big part of me still wants to start with just a complete upper because of the added expense of buying all FDE furniture which is what i'm wanting to do. i can save some cost by just building the lower w/ the FDE parts i want rather than footing the bill of extra after buying a complete rifle. i know it will suffer some resale value but i'm doing this as something i dont intend to get rid of. besides some cost, my largest concern is quality. i have chosen all quality parts IF i build it myself but will it truly be as good as a factory noveske?
You can certainly piecemeal an Upper and lower. You can buy a quality lower and SBR it, then get any upper you want. Both will be warrantied. I did enjoy buying all the quality parts and watching Gunz work his magic.:D
I can't believe there is all this debate over factory vs. build. people need a ****ing hobby.
I'm planning on building this setup and wanted to get some advice. everything adds up to right at $2,050 before stamp/engraving of lower. or i can just get the complete rifle from a dealer on here for $2,199. just trying to figure out which way would be the smartest route.
also if anyone knows where i can get the parts listed cheaper post up or pm me. (or if i forgot something please inform me)
Noveske Light shorty switchblock upper (member on here) $1,266
Noveske Gen II Lower Reciever (Rainier Arms) $245
G&R tac. Opt 4 LPK, lmt rec., lmt cas. nut, tac spring, Nov QD (G&R tac.) $211
Magpul CTR stock (G&R tac.) $92
Magpul Rail Vert Grip (G&R tac.) $15
Magpul MOE K Grip (Rainier Arms) $18.95
Troy BUIS (Rainier Arms) $199.95
First, those are all essentially quality parts. You should not have any functional issues with any of them, and if you did one or more vendors would likely take care of you and rectify the problem.
I have a K grip myself, and unless you have teeny-tiny hands (like, equivalent to having normal hands but the first digit of every single first digit has been chopped off) or have some specific application for the grip I would just use the standard MOE.
Also, in threads like this you will get a more complete answer if you can supply some idea of your prior experience with the AR FOW as well as what you want to do with the gun. That list of parts looks great, but it kind of sucks if your intended use is to shoot from a bench. Unless you're just one of those guys that simply likes to own shit, I would not go through all the trouble of owning an SBR unless you have some application that the short barrel would be beneficial. I say this as an owner of multiple SBRs and multiple uppers for each. The trade-off of the added cost and hassle just to sit around the public range and shoot from a bench or static position... the juice ain't worth the squeeze.
I do not encourage new AR owners to build their own SBR's. I can understand not wanting a factory gun but I suggest that you carefully look at your options and even consider letting someone else with knowledge and experience look over your selection and do the build.
SBR's are not as simple as standard AR's. Quality and parts selection is very important. I also do not recommend purchasing a used AR upper from anyone unless you know them very well. I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you have looked at, I'm just saying.
I do not encourage new AR owners to build their own SBR's.
To an extent, I agree... but if someone buys a complete upper and pins it to his registered lower....
All the guy needs to know is which buffer he should start with. I don't really consider that a "build"... and all the critical stuff is handled for him.
Are there any options for factory made registered lowers?
Are there any options for factory made registered lowers?
No.......
I can't believe there is all this debate over factory vs. build. people need a ****ing hobby.
First, those are all essentially quality parts. You should not have any functional issues with any of them, and if you did one or more vendors would likely take care of you and rectify the problem.
I have a K grip myself, and unless you have teeny-tiny hands (like, equivalent to having normal hands but the first digit of every single first digit has been chopped off) or have some specific application for the grip I would just use the standard MOE.
Also, in threads like this you will get a more complete answer if you can supply some idea of your prior experience with the AR FOW as well as what you want to do with the gun. That list of parts looks great, but it kind of sucks if your intended use is to shoot from a bench. Unless you're just one of those guys that simply likes to own shit, I would not go through all the trouble of owning an SBR unless you have some application that the short barrel would be beneficial. I say this as an owner of multiple SBRs and multiple uppers for each. The trade-off of the added cost and hassle just to sit around the public range and shoot from a bench or static position... the juice ain't worth the squeeze.
thanks for the input. i guess i wouldnt technically be "building" as it would be a complete NEW upper from noveske. i would basically just be piecing together the rest like i had in that list. bench is something it will probably only see to get sighted in :D . would like to get into 3 gun comps (i know that a full length works great for 3gun) but i want something shorter and more active or mobile if you will. i plan on adding an m4-2k not too long after buying/building the rifle itself.
I do not encourage new AR owners to build their own SBR's. I can understand not wanting a factory gun but I suggest that you carefully look at your options and even consider letting someone else with knowledge and experience look over your selection and do the build.
SBR's are not as simple as standard AR's. Quality and parts selection is very important. I also do not recommend purchasing a used AR upper from anyone unless you know them very well. I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you have looked at, I'm just saying.
i agree, being an SBR does put more stress on the gun which is why i selected the best individual parts i could especially since it will eventually run as a mostly suppressed gun
To an extent, I agree... but if someone buys a complete upper and pins it to his registered lower....
All the guy needs to know is which buffer he should start with. I don't really consider that a "build"... and all the critical stuff is handled for him.
this was what i meant by my question. either way it will be a brand new factory upper. the lower is what i was concerned on about taking on my own vs being a factory fitted lower
I'm planning on building this setup and wanted to get some advice. everything adds up to right at $2,050 before stamp/engraving of lower. or i can just get the complete rifle from a dealer on here for $2,199. just trying to figure out which way would be the smartest route.
also if anyone knows where i can get the parts listed cheaper post up or pm me. (or if i forgot something please inform me)
Noveske Light shorty switchblock upper (member on here) $1,266
Noveske Gen II Lower Reciever (Rainier Arms) $245
G&R tac. Opt 4 LPK, lmt rec., lmt cas. nut, tac spring, Nov QD (G&R tac.) $211
Magpul CTR stock (G&R tac.) $92
Magpul Rail Vert Grip (G&R tac.) $15
Magpul MOE K Grip (Rainier Arms) $18.95
Troy BUIS (Rainier Arms) $199.95
By the time you have it engraved you will be a few dollars apart. If saving money is your main goal you can save money buying used gear on the equipment exchange.
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