surefire knock offs

[monkeywrench]

http://cgi.ebay.com/UFC-M900a-M910a-Tactical-Rail-Foregrip-Flashlight_W0QQitemZ220172946637QQihZ012QQcategoryZ106974QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dubb-1]

That sucks, but at least the seller isn't trying to portray them as genuine Surefire products.

[Shihan]

Nothing new here they have been out awhile. Some with fake ARMS mounts to match.

[usaffarmer]

at least the seller says "Attention Buyer: UFC is famous manufacturer in airsoft equipment. This Flashlight made of Reinforced Nylon and the Bezel is Anodized Aluminium with Anti-shock design. All pressure switches and light should be checked before ship out. Why not pay a little bit more to get a well-known Brand products"

oh ya did anyone see where the item is located? HONG KONG good times.
anyway my favorite is the guys that come in to the shop and have "arms" mounts and BUIS that are made in hong kong, china ect. I guess if they feel ok putting plastic 20$ parts on your rifle and try to pass it off as real.
anyway im done ranting.

[Shihan]

at least the seller says "Attention Buyer: UFC is famous manufacturer in airsoft equipment. This Flashlight made of Reinforced Nylon and the Bezel is Anodized Aluminium with Anti-shock design. All pressure switches and light should be checked before ship out. Why not pay a little bit more to get a well-known Brand products"

oh ya did anyone see where the item is located? HONG KONG good times.
anyway my favorite if the guys that come in to the shop and have "arms" mounts and BUIS that are made in hong kong, china ect. I guess if they feel ok putting plastic 20$ parts on your rifle and try to pass it off as real.
anyway im done ranting.

Well the price difference between the Surefire knockoff isnt alittle bit more it is alotta bit more as the unit sells for 600-700bucks.

[usaffarmer]

that might be true but my experience is you get what you pay for. It maybe a aimpoint knock off or a surefire knock off. I know if something goes wrong with my surefires i can get the fixed or replaced with little to no problem.

[Sweep]

yeh well at that cost ya could just buy another

[Rmplstlskn]

The HUGE price difference gives us an idea, as with many, many AR15 parts, what the RAW MATERIALS really cost Surefire... which means the huge cost disparity can only be LABOR, MARKETING and PROFIT. One day soon the foreign knock-offs will equal or exceed in quality what US manufacturers are putting out for far less money...

One of my pet-peeves in this often highly marked up AR15 market is LADDER RAIL COVERS... It's only a LITTLE strip of RUBBERIZED PLASTIC!!!! How can these sell for $12 EACH? I can get more detailed and substantial chunk of rubberized plastic in any TOY STORE for far less, so it is very hard for me to understand a $12 cost for that ladder rail cover....

Heck... You can buy a freakin' PMAG for LESS than a stupid ladder rail cover....!!! These things are like MONSTER CABLES sold in electronics stores.... HIGHLY INFLATED profit margins.... (I know, I'm in the business)

Rmpl

[ST911]

The HUGE price difference gives us an idea, as with many, many AR15 parts, what the RAW MATERIALS really cost Surefire... which means the huge cost disparity can only be LABOR, MARKETING and PROFIT. One day soon the foreign knock-offs will equal or exceed in quality what US manufacturers are putting out for far less money...

I held one of those Surefire knock-offs in my hand on Wednesday night. They are junk, in every sense of the word. They resemble the Surefire in form only, and not even remotely in raw material quality, build quality, or performance.

Same applies to the Aimpoint clone seen previously as well.

The clones are no competition.

[C4IGrant]

The HUGE price difference gives us an idea, as with many, many AR15 parts, what the RAW MATERIALS really cost Surefire... which means the huge cost disparity can only be LABOR, MARKETING and PROFIT. One day soon the foreign knock-offs will equal or exceed in quality what US manufacturers are putting out for far less money...

One of my pet-peeves in this often highly marked up AR15 market is LADDER RAIL COVERS... It's only a LITTLE strip of RUBBERIZED PLASTIC!!!! How can these sell for $12 EACH? I can get more detailed and substantial chunk of rubberized plastic in any TOY STORE for far less, so it is very hard for me to understand a $12 cost for that ladder rail cover....

Heck... You can buy a freakin' PMAG for LESS than a stupid ladder rail cover....!!! These things are like MONSTER CABLES sold in electronics stores.... HIGHLY INFLATED profit margins.... (I know, I'm in the business)

Rmpl

There are several things that drive the cost of something that is never seen by the consumer. Short list:

Insurance (liability, employee health, etc)
Engineering the item
Molds
Labor
Dealer/Distr. network
Customer service
Life time warranty

While the materials may look like the same thing, often times they are not.



C4

[Rmplstlskn]

I think your post was about the SUREFIRE clones... but I'll twist it around for the ladder rails... :p


There are several things that drive the cost of something that is never seen by the consumer. Short list:

Insurance (liability, employee health, etc) (OVERPAID screw-turners and LAWYERS are killing our manufacturing base.... look at the domestic auto makers as an example.)
Engineering the item (Ladder rails aren't rocket science...)
Molds
Labor
Dealer/Distr. network
Customer service
Life time warranty

While the materials may look like the same thing, often times they are not.

C4

If MAGPUL (God bless them! My favorite manufacturer ever...) can make and sell a PMAG magazine (all of the above factors included in price) for the SAME or LESS price than a dinky Ladder Rail, then we are all getting HOSED when we buy these items...

Ladder and Rail Covers are the high profit area to be sure... for somebody. On other stuff, I think the price points are very fair...

Rmpl

[C4IGrant]

I think your post was about the SUREFIRE clones... but I'll twist it around for the ladder rails... :p



If MAGPUL (God bless them! My favorite manufacturer ever...) can make and sell a PMAG magazine (all of the above factors included in price) for the SAME or LESS price than a dinky Ladder Rail, then we are all getting HOSED when we buy these items...

Ladder and Rail Covers are the high profit area to be sure... for somebody. On other stuff, I think the price points are very fair...

Rmpl


Magpul does not make the ladder covers that they sell. If you want a cheaper ladder, look at the SureFire Z70's. They are $15 for 3.



C4


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/Z70.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/Z70%20on%20rail.jpg

[olds442tyguy]

The HUGE price difference gives us an idea, as with many, many AR15 parts, what the RAW MATERIALS really cost Surefire... which means the huge cost disparity can only be LABOR, MARKETING and PROFIT. One day soon the foreign knock-offs will equal or exceed in quality what US manufacturers are putting out for far less money...
:confused:

An acquaintance of mine bought a couple Surefire E2D knock offs from Cheaper Than Dirt. They go through batteries like a hot knife through melted butter, he's broken off most of the strike pommels, and it even has a little rust where the pommels broke, even though it's "aluminum". When the battery starts to die, the light will turn on and stay on until the battery completely drains.

These problems aren't "assembly" problems. They're the results of using materials that are out right shit. The rust is a high indicator that they used cheap recycled unsorted aluminum. The pommel fractures show an obviously cast construction as well. Surefire uses forged and billet high grade aluminum. I bet one Surefire body costs more than an entire month's run of cheap shitty Chinese made knock off bodies in materials alone.

I agree about ladder covers though. I think the same of Tango Down VFG's, LMT SOPMOD stocks, and EOTech and Aimpoint magnifiers. Does it leave a bad taste in my mouth? Of course, but I'm not going to go to the opposite side of the spectrum because of it. The last thing I need is an optic that leaks mustard gas, a stock that's coated in LSD, or a "tactical" belt that sprinkles herpes spores every time you touch it. I prefer buying American not because of the cost, but because of the integrity. I'd rather send some greedy American guy a couple extra bucks than pay a couple bucks for an inferior product that's likely made from recycled condoms.

Buying Chinese is a health risk now aside from that. Let's hope your child you cheaped out on doesn't get the fatal GHB laced toys. Let's hope your kid isn't chewing on one of the millions of lead painted toys they send out. Screw that.

[Rmplstlskn]

I prefer buying American not because of the cost, but because of the integrity. I'd rather send some greedy American guy a couple extra bucks than pay a couple bucks for an inferior product that's likely made from recycled condoms.

Agreed! I generally prefer and seek out "Made in the U.S.A.", but I also seek QUALITY first and foremost on things that matter. I have seen plenty of USA-made CRAP... but that is usually the exception.

But on things that don't matter, like ladder rails, I will buy the cheapest...

BTW, I bought some cheap, Chinese DIGI-LIGHT flashlights back when they had an intro to the market sale. The higher end ones were pretty darn good and I still have two on lesser-used weapons, still shining after many recoils... Now Digi-Light is considered a good, mid-level tactical light...

Rmpl

[C4IGrant]

Agreed! I generally prefer and seek out "Made in the U.S.A.", but I also seek QUALITY first and foremost on things that matter. I have seen plenty of USA-made CRAP... but that is usually the exception.

But on things that don't matter, like ladder rails, I will buy the cheapest...

BTW, I bought some cheap, Chinese DIGI-LIGHT flashlights back when they had an intro to the market sale. The higher end ones were pretty darn good and I still have two on lesser-used weapons, still shining after many recoils... Now Digi-Light is considered a good, mid-level tactical light...

Rmpl



Digilight is also out of business. Hope you don't need any warranty work. :D



C4

[Rmplstlskn]

Digilight is also out of business. Hope you don't need any warranty work. :D
C4

Well, see, there you go... :rolleyes:

Now if you said INOVA went teets up, then I'd be blues'in...

Rmpl

[Shihan]

that might be true but my experience is you get what you pay for. It maybe a aimpoint knock off or a surefire knock off. I know if something goes wrong with my surefires i can get the fixed or replaced with little to no problem.


I wasnt advocating buying the knockoff.

[williejc]

:( Another reason to support our type domestic products is that without our business, they could easily go by the wayside. Also, gov. policy in the future may prohibit importation of firearm related products.

My opinion is that overhead costs of manufacturing in the U.S. is so prohibitive that few companies make a high return on their investment. Just think how the cost of oil as it goes up affects businesses.

Polymer science and its research into rubber, plastics, etc. is rocket science in that for several decades it has been a discipline in its own right with research conducted by mathematicians, chemist, physicists, and others.

Some say that China uses prison labor to a large extent, not to mention countless sweatshops. As we compete with China for oil and other natural resources, we may find that the Chinese are not our friends. I am fearful of the fact that they finance us by buying up U.S. Treasury notes, and like the Arabs, may eventually own us. Am I paranoid? Yes, and you should be too.

Williejc

[C4IGrant]

:( Another reason to support our type domestic products is that without our business, they could easily go by the wayside. Also, gov. policy in the future may prohibit importation of firearm related products.

My opinion is that overhead costs of manufacturing in the U.S. is so prohibitive that few companies make a high return on their investment. Just think how the cost of oil as it goes up affects businesses.

Polymer science and its research into rubber, plastics, etc. is rocket science in that for several decades it has been a discipline in its own right with research conducted by mathematicians, chemist, physicists, and others.

Some say that China uses prison labor to a large extent, not to mention countless sweatshops. As we compete with China for oil and other natural resources, we may find that the Chinese are not our friends. I am fearful of the fact that they finance us by buying up U.S. Treasury notes, and like the Arabs, may eventually own us. Am I paranoid? Yes, and you should be too.

Williejc



One of the points you made is important. The US Govt taxes US companies more than other countries tax their companies. This is why our domestic product will always cost more than something made in Asia or Europe.


C4