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CQC.45
10-25-11, 09:07
Personal Security Systems: Parallel Magazine Attachment (PMA) 3x Carrier

I’ve been running this mag carrier on my own and in various courses, and wanted to give my impressions thus far.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/320854_234182376638406_132801706776474_678984_1569242002_n.jpg

The PMA is essentially a double mag pouch with a taco-style attachment along the bottom running parallel to the carrier (hence the name). It comes standard (as pictured above) with PSS standard OWB attachments. Initial inspection of the overall quality resembled other PSS gear I use, which is to say very good (edges smoothed out, coloring even, attachments fitting flush, etc.). I have owned kydex products from a variety of manufacturers in the past; it is one of those materials which shows the workmanship of the maker, as I have seen everything from very rough edges, uneven lines, and poor fit, to looking like it was perfectly molded from a machine.

My sample originally came in standard thickness black. Initially I was a little worried as I generally prefer most of my gear to be of the extra thick kydex variety for durability reasons. I realized my worries were unwarranted however once I received it. The PMA is incredibly stiff for its kydex thickness. In fact, I have another mag pouch from a major brand which seems to use thicker kydex that seems to have a little more flex than the PMA.

Initially, I ran the carrier using the simple, but effective, OWB attachment on my Wilderness belt along with a holster. Being a double mag pouch, the PMA does not conform to ones waist as 2 separate single pouches would. Having said that, I fount it to be pretty comfortable around the 10:30 – 11:00 position. I found a G19 magazine in the parallel attachment to be roughly the same length as the 2x carrier with a G17 mag being only slightly longer. This is nice as it is less likely to get snagged or jam into you…in fact, I had no issues with either (unlike I expected). Shooting from a variety of positions I found the extra mag to not get in the way at all (even kneeling). It stayed secure even after getting banged around quite a bit. Drawing the parallel mag was surprisingly intuitive. In fact, I may even be faster drawing it horizontally than the vertical ones. Instead of simply yanking it out of the pouch as in the vertical mags, grip the mag with my fingers while resting my wrist on the forward side of the double mag carrier and leverage my hand outward to draw the magazine. This has proven to be very fast with some practice and prevents the pouch from rocking back (not really an issue with OWB loops on the Wilderness belt, but with the zip ties on the war belt as referenced later)

Which brings me to my next point: mag retention. The mags have a distinct click in and out of the carrier. This is very nice as compared to some of the other friction-only carriers I have used.

Though the PMA works well on the Wilderness, I found its best application (for me) to be on my HSGI padded 1st line belt. For reference I am a 31” waist so I wear a size medium. This leaves me with very little room on my belt to mount stuff.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h326/CQC45/DSC00377.jpg

At this point the PMA got a tan krylon job so ignore the poor coloring. To mount it on the MOLLE attachments I used the zip tie method which worked surprisingly well for what it was. My only issue is with the 2 AR mag carriers, I was left with very little room to mount the PMA, so I threaded the zip ties through rear and middle sets of rivets instead of the rear and front. This resulted in a little less stability than I would like, though this is not really the fault of the PMA itself. I would imagine someone wearing a L or XL belt would not have this issue. I may try to change some things around to make room for the PMA as well.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h326/CQC45/DSC00378.jpg

Even with this mounting method, however mags were still easy to draw and remained secure. At this point the PMA was mounted at my 11:00 or so. I ran this setup at a recent VSM carbine class and it worked perfectly. It essentially gave me 3 pistol mags for the belt space of 2. During prone shooting drills I was hitting the ground HARD and the PMA was the first thing to make contact. I am not easy on my gear by any means, but it held up perfectly. Mags stayed in place and were still easy to draw. Working transitions, I actually found the parallel mag easier to draw (considering the placement of the rifle), than the vertical ones.


Final thoughts

In summary, I think the PMA offers a few distinct advantages. Being able to mount 3 mags for the belt space of 2 is a big one. Drawing the horizontal mag is easier from several positions, and especially when running more than one gun. Even if you like to draw only from the vertical mags you can simply feed the vertical mags from the horizontal one…more ammo never hurt.

I am certainly happy with my sample, as it has earned a permanent spot on my HSGI belt (may just have to move a few things around).

Regarding PSS in general: I have dealt with Steve on several occasions, and I have found him to be a standup guy who takes the quality and utility of his products seriously. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to work with me on various things. As such, I generally stick with PSS for my kydex gear and would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone else as well.

I will try to answer any questions anyone may have regarding the PMA, hopefully Steve S. might chime in as well.

Failure2Stop
10-25-11, 10:34
I am finding it ironic that you have a belt, which is a decent mounting platform for mag pouches and holsters, which you covered with a Molle sleeve, which is a perfect mounting platform for Molle pouches, and have attached items designed to be attached to a belt to a Molle platform.

orionz06
10-25-11, 11:25
I am finding it ironic that you have a belt, which is a decent mounting platform for mag pouches and holsters, which you covered with a Molle sleeve, which is a perfect mounting platform for Molle pouches, and have attached items designed to be attached to a belt to a Molle platform.

A belt pad would be more suited and it would give a more solid mount with all the items using their provided hardware.

It would also give infinite spacing adjustments rather than the increments that molle provides.

CQC.45
10-25-11, 12:54
I am finding it ironic that you have a belt, which is a decent mounting platform for mag pouches and holsters, which you covered with a Molle sleeve, which is a perfect mounting platform for Molle pouches, and have attached items designed to be attached to a belt to a Molle platform.

I have the HSGI belt for two reasons:

-I wanted something I could wear outside of my jacket without having to tuck my jacket in my pants. The HSGI belt has a rubber interior which helps it from shifting around.

-The padded belt helps distribute the weight better than the Eagle or similar belt itself.


Regarding the attachments on the belt: The AR pouches are what I had on hand, so I tried them out on the belt. As I said in the review, I may change some things up including the AR pouches. The PSS AR pouches actually functioned perfectly. They provided great retention and draws were smooth. The only issue is the width of each pouch and belt space.

The PMA I wanted on there for belt space reasons and extra mags. Plus, as I found out the horizontal mag provided some unique benefits itself. The best way to mount this was the zip ties which ended up working pretty well.

Would MOLLE-specific attachments be nice for the Kydex gear? Sure. Perhaps some will be developed at some point, but the zip ties seem to work pretty well in the mean time.


While I'm on this topic, the holster is riding on a MOLLE-specific drop attachments I was T&E'ing. The idea was for those wanting to use their existing PSS holster on the MOLLE belt and not have to draw into your armpit. It worked pretty well for the most part, but there are a couple of other designs I believe will be looked into before anything final.



A belt pad would be more suited and it would give a more solid mount with all the items using their provided hardware.

It would also give infinite spacing adjustments rather than the increments that molle provides.

I may look into that. However, my main issue was not with the adjustment increments so much as with the overall real estate in general.



ETA: Just to state the obvious: the PMA and rest of the kydex gear are primarily meant to be run on a standard belt. I took them out of their element somewhat running them on a MOLLE system. However, even in doing that they worked well IMO.

orionz06
10-25-11, 12:57
Would MOLLE-specific attachments be nice for the Kydex gear? Sure. Perhaps some will be developed at some point.

Did alternate (zip tie) method work fine for mounting? Yep.


While I'm on this topic, the holster is riding on a MOLLE-specific drop attachments I was T&E'ing. The idea was for those wanting to use their existing PSS holster on the MOLLE belt and not have to draw into your armpit. It worked pretty well for the most part, but there are a couple of other designs I believe will be looked into before anything final.

FWIW I think zip ties are more than adequate. I use them for my holster to a padded belt because it is cheap and fast.

The drop mount looks decent, I have a few ideas on how it could be improved (I think).

CQC.45
10-25-11, 13:17
The drop mount looks decent, I have a few ideas on how it could be improved (I think).

As do I, if you wouldn't mind I would be happy to discuss via PM.

Failure2Stop
10-25-11, 14:20
Dude, whatever floats your boat. I'm not saying that it won't work, I just think that people head down a path sometimes and forget that there are already established and successful means to accomplish a task. Unless you have dictated performance/durability standards, the only measure of success that really matters is your own personal satisfaction.

Personally, I have found that the Eagle FB pouches in both pistol and rifle fully meet my needs for Molle mounting, but I also know that lots of people prefer to find their own solutions for whatever reason.

I was not intentionally hijacking your thread, as it is clearly about a specific pouch that you are reporting to be performing as expected, and that's cool.

Dave_M
10-26-11, 08:42
Would MOLLE-specific attachments be nice for the Kydex gear? Sure. Perhaps some will be developed at some point, but the zip ties seem to work pretty well in the mean time.

They do exist. Google, 'MOLLE-Lok'.

orionz06
10-26-11, 09:02
They do exist. Google, 'MOLLE-Lok'.

Molle lok's work well until the pouch has too much curvature. They are best used on flat items such as nylon or kydex that is made with molle mounting in mind.

Failure2Stop
10-26-11, 13:40
They do exist. Google, 'MOLLE-Lok'.

I've also heard good things about the Bawidamann PUP.

---

Personally, I just put Molle pouches on Molle and belt pouches on belts, but I'm crazy like that.
Nothing worth an argument or hurt feelings though.

Steve S.
10-28-11, 19:06
Sorry, haven't been on here awhile. M4C has been having some issues on my iPhone, where I spend 95% of my internet time. Finally made it to the PC (getting back to PMs after this).

I can understand the allure of a MOLLE belt in this situation for CQC. He wanted something to buckle over a jacket. I'm not a huge fan of MOLLE belts - but they work well in this role. The newer ones with rubber lining are more reason to move away from a Duty Belt for this situation. I think he wanted something to mimic the feel of how he carries. Plus, he's a thinner guy and still managed to carry a good load of ammo on the waist. I keep a war belt set up similarly - but I strongly prefer running a standard belt - even if it means tucking a jacket into my pants to have access. Michigan does get very cold though.

I actually have a dedicated MOLLE attachment. I don't know if CQC even knows this. But at the end of the day - I don't believe it's any better then zip ties. It just looks nicer. MOLLE locks (Tek-Lok, etc) have their place - but for pancake kydex I don't think it's the best choice. The Bawidamann PUP is a cool idea. But if you used the PUP system for each individual pouch and holster - you'd make the load even larger and considerably more expensive.

The drop attachment was something that went from idea to made in about 24 hours - so it was just a way of duplicating his CCW draw on a MOLLE belt. I have no intention of ever making another one of those attachments again. It did NOT work well. But I think the idea can still work and I'll be playing with it some more. The problem with using zip ties on the holster is that MOLLE belts are worn quite a bit higher. I personally can't stand the draw. There's easier solutions if your belt can access the inner belt. Many - including mine - are strictly MOLLE though.

Back on topic

The parallel magazine attachment was made with some specific roles in mind. The biggest was in talking with different security contractors - it sucks to be the driver in theater. They often are left with strictly a pistol while behind the wheel. Many keep a belt holster and some sort of vest holster for quick access while driving. When seated, the PMA is incredibly easy to reload with. Add in a steering wheel, some armor, and other gizmos to cramp up space - that ease of reloading can be a big plus. It cuts out the awkward "push up with the feet and shuffle around to find the mag between the seat and my armor" dance.

The other thought was unconventional positions. Reloading from something like Brokeback Prone from the PMA can be easier then with vertical pouches - especially when wearing armor.

There's a whole industry devoted to ambi controls, ledged sights, and even getting as extreme as milling out slides - all in the name of making one handed weapon manipulations easier. If your support hand goes down - can you get to your mags? The answer is usually "yes". But it can be awkward. Grabbing from a horizontal source is a lot easier based on body mechanics. Again - add in armor, stress, and bullet holes - and making any motion easier in a dynamic situation is appreciated.

Lastly, it's one more source of ammo that is suprisingly easy to carry and non intrusive. There will be some who say "it goes against years of training to reload horizontally". Completely understandable. But it doesn't have to be reloaded from directly. It's a great spot to stow a mag to backfeed your primary pistol magazine pouches. Or a great spot to stow a partial mag on a tac reload. Basically, for something that adds under 2" in length to a standard mag carrier - it has benefits.

A lot of this is theory based while we still get some out in the field. That's the reason it's not for sale. But I think if people realize that it wasn't created for concealed carry and think about other unique uses - it COULD be another tool in the toolbox.

I can't help but think of a thread on another board. It had to do with the Ares Armor RAD Pack. You had a bunch of people hating on it for being too "tacti - cool" without realizing that there are people from other walks of life who may need exactly that. Driving a desk may not have the same gear requirements of someone who drives an SUV in Iraq. Keeping that in mind - I'd love to hear any initial feedback anyone has on this. It's not something I'm promoting as "the next big thing" - but I do like the project. But I'm not one of the people it was created for - so it's always good to hear from the face shooters. It can be stressful doing it publicly - but I'm open to any constructive criticisms.

Sorry that was so long winded. Now time to answer some long over due PMs. Cheers.

trinydex
11-01-11, 18:31
FWIW I think zip ties are more than adequate. I use them for my holster to a padded belt because it is cheap and fast.

The drop mount looks decent, I have a few ideas on how it could be improved (I think).

what if you have to maneuver around something and your gear gets snagged... those zip ties will break.

orionz06
11-01-11, 18:34
what if you have to maneuver around something and your gear gets snagged... those zip ties will break.

They can be used in a manner that presents very little to snag and I think would be no more of an issue than anything else hanging off of you.

trinydex
11-01-11, 19:49
They can be used in a manner that presents very little to snag and I think would be no more of an issue than anything else hanging off of you.

the other things hanging off of me won't break off when snagged. items on a belt that are zip tied on, may.

orionz06
11-01-11, 20:42
the other things hanging off of me won't break off when snagged. items on a belt that are zip tied on, may.

Likely a subject for another thread, but anything can snag and tear off of a belt. Zip ties are pretty tough and can be used without sticking out too far. They can also hold up better when things such as malice clips or molle lok's would give.