View Full Version : This little piggy... got dead
I have the privilege to hunt on a farm in middle GA. Over the last 10 years, we have been over run by feral hogs and coyotes. The have impacted everything from the deer population, to small game, turkeys, quail and even small predators like bobcats & fox. As a result, my friend, the landowner, has a strict shoot-on-sight rule for either species. That rule, in addition to being a Conservative and a Life Member of the NRA are the only dues I have ever been asked to pay in 17 years.
I was out at the farm a couple of weeks ago when I crossed paths with a wild boar after a morning bowhunt. I had already stowed my bow in the truck, so I grabbed the closest thing I could get my hands on, my M&P9 FS loaded with 115 gr. fmj.
Shot #1 - trotting broadside at 20 yards - The boar jumped straight up when he was hit and bolted. Hit on the left side and the bullet passed through to break his right leg.
The boar ran approx. 20 yards, then made a hard left turn and headed straight in my direction. I took aim as he ran headlong into the next round.
Shot #2 - the second shot hit him in the chest and he stumbled as he continued straight at me.
Shot #3 - at about 10 yards, I fired again, hitting him again in the chest. He finally nosedived into a kicking pile of dead pork.
While not ideal at all, I was pleased with the outcome considering the caliber & load that I had immediately available at the time. Most interesting is just how tough these critters are. This one had heavy gristle armor to protect him from other boars. The armor can be felt over the shoulder blade and extending back over the ribcage.
A few pics...
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/mtdawg169/IMG_20110929_121412.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/mtdawg169/IMG_20110929_121422.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/mtdawg169/IMG_20110929_121729.jpg
I certainly think you need a better round than 115 gr. FMJ.
That was a lot of needless suffering.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-26-11, 00:38
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/mtdawg169/IMG_20110929_121412.jpg
Anyone else notice that the pig has similar coloration to the M&P? It was meant to be.
I certainly think you need a better round than 115 gr. FMJ.
That was a lot of needless suffering.
Actually it wasn't. As I stated, it was all I had immediately available and FMJ isn't ideal. But it got the job done quickly and shot placement was key. I had been carrying the pistol all day in an OWB holster. Without an alternative readily available and my pistol being quickly accessible, that's what was used. The entire encounter lasted less than 10 seconds and all three rounds were solid hits. He expired quickly and didn't suffer. The animal was in range and all three rounds were good hits. IMHO, it was a perfectly humane & ethical kill. In fact, I'm not 100% certain that a typical defensive round would have been any more effective on the animal due to it's natural armor, a hard, thick plate of gristle covering most of his vitals.
Anyone else notice that the pig has similar coloration to the M&P? It was meant to be.
;-)
Funny!
Kudos on keeping calm while it was running toward you. I would have unloaded a volley of ammunition the second it turned toward me.
Kudos on keeping calm while it was running toward you. I would have unloaded a volley of ammunition the second it turned toward me.
was thinking the same thing !
mag dump time !!!!
Anyone else notice that the pig has similar coloration to the M&P? It was meant to be.
In terms of color the hog looks like one of the old Hampshires , some people might call them a legacy breed today.
Kudos on keeping calm while it was running toward you. I would have unloaded a volley of ammunition the second it turned toward me.
It didn't occur to me that he had actually just charged at me until it was all over. They can be very aggressive.
It didn't occur to me that he had actually just charged at me until it was all over. They can be very aggressive.
While I have nothing to back it, I was told by a someone who should know, more people are hurt by hogs and Javelinas than any other wild animal, because they are aggressive and most people dont take them seriously.
In terms of color the hog looks like one of the old Hampshires , some people might call them a legacy breed today.
I'm curious about this. The hogs running around our parts range in color from jet black to red and speckled varieties.
Feral hogs can carry an amazing amount of lead, and wounded are a significant threat.
I am frankly surprised 3X 9MM stopped it.
I have shot them 5X with 00 buckshot and had them turn on, and tear up a pack of dogs. I have hit them with a 150 gr .308 softpoint (not bonded; I always use bonded ammo on hogs now) in the armored shoulder shield mentioned in a another post and watched them run off.
So it was probably to your advantage it was FMJ.
Compliments on your cool in getting hits while he was coming your way.
Nice!
What do you estimate his weight to have been?
My nephew-in-law's brother took down a 600 pounder this summer with a 44 mag. Said the damn thing took 2 rnds to the chest and kept charging! The headshot supposedly didn't even kill it immediately?
Tough critters for sure.
He expired quickly and didn't suffer.
If he had opportunity to turn and charge that simply isn't the case. Any animal that is charging with a broken leg isn't having fun. He is fighting for his life.
And if you didn't bring the right tool for the job, don't do it. There is nothing wrong with removing problem animals, it should simply be done more responsibly.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 14:10
If he had opportunity to turn and charge that simply isn't the case. Any animal that is charging with a broken leg isn't having fun. He is fighting for his life.
And if you didn't bring the right tool for the job, don't do it. There is nothing wrong with removing problem animals, it should simply be done more responsibly.
They allow aerial gunning here now for hogs. I doubt they would be any more humane since it would be quite hard for accurate shot placement shooting from a moving aircraft at a running target.
At any rate the thing only ran 20 yards or so. Lots of them run much further than that hit by much more 'suitable' calibers.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 14:12
Have you cooked it yet?
Big hogs tend to be nasty especially in the summer months. I would just leave them and let it feed other animals you can shoot, too.
Ive talked to a lot of people who don't eat any summer hogs no matter the size, and its still pretty warm in the south.
They allow aerial gunning here now for hogs. I doubt they would be any more humane since it would be quite hard for accurate shot placement shooting from a moving aircraft at a running target.
At any rate the thing only ran 20 yards or so. Lots of them run much further than that hit by much more 'suitable' calibers.
Just because it is legal and some else does it doesn't mean it is humane.
If the hog was charging or causing problems I can see gunning it down with whatever is on hand. If it is just trotting by I'd let it be.
Big hogs tend to be nasty especially in the summer months. I would just leave them and let it feed other animals you can shoot, too.
Ive talked to a lot of people who don't eat any summer hogs no matter the size, and its still pretty warm in the south.
And they are disease ridden little buggers around here.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 14:20
Just because it is legal and some else does it doesn't mean it is humane.
If the hog was charging or causing problems I can see gunning it down with whatever is on hand. If it is just trotting by I'd let it be.
I wouldn't calling running 20 yards before dying inhumane. Inhumane would be intentionally wounding it or wounding accidentally and not trying to put it down immediately.
They are a real nuisance to people, and are non native. They should be shot on sight. Thats why states are taking measures to allow people to kill them in just about any manner possible.
Have you cooked it yet?
We generally don't eat the boars. This one had yellowed fat and would have been unsuitable for table fare. We used the carcass as a means to set traps for scavenging yotes.
I wouldn't calling running 20 yards before dying inhumane. Inhumane would be intentionally wounding it or wounding accidentally and not trying to put it down immediately.
They are a real nuisance to people, and are non native. They should be shot on sight. Thats why states are taking measures to allow people to kill them in just about any manner possible.
I agree. I'm a huge fan of shooting hogs. They ruin all sorts of crops, hurt deer populations etc.
In this case 20 yards ain't bad. I've shot deer with a 30-06 that have run further. But in general a 9mm vs Hog is a setup for wounding shots/lots of suffering for the hog.
If he had opportunity to turn and charge that simply isn't the case. Any animal that is charging with a broken leg isn't having fun. He is fighting for his life.
And if you didn't bring the right tool for the job, don't do it. There is nothing wrong with removing problem animals, it should simply be done more responsibly.
Steyr, you simply don't know what you're talking about. The distance he ran as well as the length of time between first shot & expiration was extremely short. These animals are an extreme nuisance and invasive species. I wouldn't hesitate to take one anytime an opportunity presents itself. While I would prefer a rifle in a larger caliber, at that distance, I was confident that I could make the shot and that the animal would suffer a fatal wound. Based on the results, it seems that I did in fact "bring a good enough tool for the job". The fact that he continued on after the first shot means nothing. He was hit broadside, through both lungs and the leg on the opposite side of his body was broken when the bullet exited. He would have died even if I hadn't followed up. As a responsible hunter, I fired again until he was anchored in order to PREVENT any prolonged suffering.
I should add that I have shot all sorts of game, including hogs with large caliber rifles that have run much further when hit with a fatal shot.
I agree. I'm a huge fan of shooting hogs. They ruin all sorts of crops, hurt deer populations etc.
In this case 20 yards ain't bad. I've shot deer with a 30-06 that have run further. But in general a 9mm vs Hog is a setup for wounding shots/lots of suffering for the hog.
I generally agree that 9mm is far from ideal. Under these particular circumstances and the very short range involved, I was comfortable taking a shot. If he had been much further away, I would have let him walk.
If i were under the same circumstances I would have done the same, especially considering the impact these feral hogs have on the native game and such. Sucks that you can't eat em all:( Found out a while ago that their are charities willing to take the pork off your hands too.:D
If i were under the same circumstances I would have done the same, especially considering the impact these feral hogs have on the native game and such. Sucks that you can't eat em all:( Found out a while ago that their are charities willing to take the pork off your hands too.:D
Some of them aren't fit to eat and in GA, processors must be licensed to handle wild hogs due to concerns over brucellosis, which is common. We eat the small ones and use the others for coyote bait. Occasionally, we'll feed one to the "pet" gator in one of our beaver ponds.
They allow aerial gunning here now for hogs. I doubt they would be any more humane since it would be quite hard for accurate shot placement shooting from a moving aircraft at a running target.
At any rate the thing only ran 20 yards or so. Lots of them run much further than that hit by much more 'suitable' calibers.
People are allowed to do all kinds of things.
But just as there are gun owners and responsible gun owners, there are hunters and ethical hunters. I think all kills should be quick and clean and avoid unnecessary suffering.
Obviously not everyone agrees upon what constitutes "quick and clean" or "ethical" just as there is no strong consensus about what constitutes "responsible" gun ownership.
People are allowed to do all kinds of things.
But just as there are gun owners and responsible gun owners, there are hunters and ethical hunters. I think all kills should be quick and clean and avoid unnecessary suffering.
Obviously not everyone agrees upon what constitutes "quick and clean" or "ethical" just as there is no strong consensus about what constitutes "responsible" gun ownership.
Do you hunt?
Steyr, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
Having grown up in the midwest hunting most things and coming from a family that lives to hunt, I disagree with your assessment of me.
I won't say you are wrong, but we clearly have very different criteria. For me a "clean and quick" kill is one where the animal doesn't even run. I have seen far too many examples of very large animals dropped where they stood to accept the suggestion that it isn't possible.
This of course requires a suitable round capable of a one shot kill and proper placement of that shot. Most of the hunters I grew up with would consider having to shoot an animal twice, let alone three times, sloppy hunting. And when I was younger and not terribly proficient I received such criticisms on more than one occasion.
Do you hunt?
Not anymore, there is no hunting of value in south Florida.
Additionally, hunting has now become more expensive than the grocery store which kind of defeats it's purpose for me. I have a close friend with property and a feral hog problem and have been invited to come out. The only thing stopping me is that it is a bit of a drive.
But when I finally drag my butt out there, I will take something a bit more reliable than a 9mm handgun. If I am going to shoot something, it is my desire to inflict as little suffering as possible. That's just me and the way I was raised.
Having grown up in the midwest hunting most things and coming from a family that lives to hunt, I disagree with your assessment of me.
I won't say you are wrong, but we clearly have very different criteria. For me a "clean and quick" kill is one where the animal doesn't even run. I have seen far too many examples of very large animals dropped where they stood to accept the suggestion that it isn't possible.
This of course requires a suitable round capable of a one shot kill and proper placement of that shot. Most of the hunters I grew up with would consider having to shoot an animal twice, let alone three times, sloppy hunting. And when I was younger and not terribly proficient I received such criticisms on more than one occasion.
I would assert that an animal dropping where it stands is the exception & not the rule. That is unless you purposefully aim to break a shoulder or the neck. Since that wastes a lot of meat, I generally go for a lung shot. The animals will run, it's just a fact. I shoot a 30-06 for 90% of my hunting and most of my shots are well inside of 100 yards due to terrain, cover and stand selection. That is more than enough gun for all game species in the South. Without a neck shot, which I don't like to use, the animal will most likely not fall where it stands. Even a shoulder shot isn't a guarantee. Wild game animals are tough and rarely fall over dead when hit. What I don't agree with are low probabilty shots taken at bad angles, too far away or obscured by vegetation. If I have a clear line of sight to vitals, the animal is within my known effective range, the angles are good and I'm confident that I will not knowingly wound the animal, that is a humane shot in my book. This case met those criteria.
Not anymore, there is no hunting of value in south Florida.
Additionally, hunting has now become more expensive than the grocery store which kind of defeats it's purpose for me. I have a close friend with property and a feral hog problem and have been invited to come out. The only thing stopping me is that it is a bit of a drive.
But when I finally drag my butt out there, I will take something a bit more reliable than a 9mm handgun. If I am going to shoot something, it is my desire to inflict as little suffering as possible. That's just me and the way I was raised.
I suspect we weren't raised that differently. Respecting the animal & fair chase are sacred rules. Let me be clear, I didn't go hunting with a 9mm handgun. I used what was expedient & within reason for the circumstances to dispatch a nuisance animal. And I did so with as little suffering as possible.
If you expect to stop a 200+ lb wild boar in his tracks, you better shoot him in the ear. Considering the low probabilty & difficulty of hitting such a small target on a moving animal, you're more likely to wound him. A shot to the vitals, will most likely result in a short or possibly a long sprint before the animal expires. That's the reality of hunting & why I was taught how to trail wounded game as I grew up.
I certainly think you need a better round than 115 gr. FMJ.
That was a lot of needless suffering.
Needless suffering?........ok......
Load up with hydrashocks and drop him with the first two.
Also more proof that pigs arent super human or bullet proof if a 9mm can pass almost all the way through.
Enough debate... let's hear some good hog huntin' stories!
dirt_diver
10-26-11, 16:01
Not anymore, there is no hunting of value in south Florida.
Additionally, hunting has now become more expensive than the grocery store which kind of defeats it's purpose for me. I have a close friend with property and a feral hog problem and have been invited to come out. The only thing stopping me is that it is a bit of a drive.
But when I finally drag my butt out there, I will take something a bit more reliable than a 9mm handgun. If I am going to shoot something, it is my desire to inflict as little suffering as possible. That's just me and the way I was raised.
Not wanting to pile on, but what is your stance on bow hunting?
Having grown up in the midwest hunting most things and coming from a family that lives to hunt, I disagree with your assessment of me.
I won't say you are wrong, but we clearly have very different criteria. For me a "clean and quick" kill is one where the animal doesn't even run. I have seen far too many examples of very large animals dropped where they stood to accept the suggestion that it isn't possible.
This of course requires a suitable round capable of a one shot kill and proper placement of that shot. Most of the hunters I grew up with would consider having to shoot an animal twice, let alone three times, sloppy hunting. And when I was younger and not terribly proficient I received such criticisms on more than one occasion.
I guess that means that you wouldn't consider bowhunting then. I've shot multiple deer with my bow and everysingle one of them ran at least 20 yards. More along the lines of at least 50 yards. All of my shots were place in the heart/lungs and were killing shots.
To mtdawg 169, that takes a lot of nerve to put your shots where you did with a big hog charging like he did. Nice job!!
bakercountyboy
10-26-11, 16:11
Great pics! Here in north florida we do ALOT of hog hunting. we use dogs most of the time. there has been a few times where my dogs had them hogs running by me and i had to put them down with the ruger .44 mag.
Keep up the good work!!!!
I guess that means that you wouldn't consider bowhunting then. I've shot multiple deer with my bow and everysingle one of them ran at least 20 yards. More along the lines of at least 50 yards. All of my shots were place in the heart/lungs and were killing shots.
To mtdawg 169, that takes a lot of nerve to put your shots where you did with a big hog charging like he did. Nice job!!
I agree props for handling a charging pig well. That'd ruin a day if he closed on you.
As to the bow hunting. I can't speak for Steyr but to me bow is a different beast. I feel confident when I shoot a deer with my bow it will die. It might run a bit but probably not far 95% of the time. A 9mm vs any largish animal doesn't have that same odds. Had the hog decided to run away instead you've got a injured animal that has months of suck-itude ahead. Kind of like jack offs that gut shot cats with 22lrs for fun.
Belmont31R
10-26-11, 16:16
Having grown up in the midwest hunting most things and coming from a family that lives to hunt, I disagree with your assessment of me.
I won't say you are wrong, but we clearly have very different criteria. For me a "clean and quick" kill is one where the animal doesn't even run. I have seen far too many examples of very large animals dropped where they stood to accept the suggestion that it isn't possible.
This of course requires a suitable round capable of a one shot kill and proper placement of that shot. Most of the hunters I grew up with would consider having to shoot an animal twice, let alone three times, sloppy hunting. And when I was younger and not terribly proficient I received such criticisms on more than one occasion.
Ive never met a hunter who said they can kill a deer or other medium+ size game 100% of the time with one shot and a drop. I think thats wildly unrealistic, and the vast majority of hunters would say, even with a clean hit, the animal will run a short distance.
CNS hits are the only surefire way to put an animal down without taking a step, and I think that would be risky since if you don't make the hit right in the perfect spot the animal will not die immediately. This is why most people go for the vitals which presents a larger target and will be fatal as well. If most people took aim for CNS hits there would be a lot more wounded animals out there.
I was asked to go hog hunting last week, its something I have never done. I'm in the greater Tampa bay area and was wondering what wild hogs are good to eat?
I was asked to go hog hunting last week, its something I have never done. I'm in the greater Tampa bay area and was wondering what wild hogs are good to eat?
Little ones!
I agree props for handling a charging pig well. That'd ruin a day if he closed on you.
As to the bow hunting. I can't speak for Steyr but to me bow is a different beast. I feel confident when I shoot a deer with my bow it will die. It might run a bit but probably not far 95% of the time. A 9mm vs any largish animal doesn't have that same odds. Had the hog decided to run away instead you've got a injured animal that has months of suck-itude ahead. Kind of like jack offs that gut shot cats with 22lrs for fun.
In case you missed it, the first shot was a double lung shot with complete penetration through to the far side shoulder. He wasn't going far or for very long.
I suspect we weren't raised that differently. Respecting the animal & fair chase are sacred rules. Let me be clear, I didn't go hunting with a 9mm handgun. I used what was expedient & within reason for the circumstances to dispatch a nuisance animal. And I did so with as little suffering as possible.
And I guess the only real difference is I personally would have waited until I had something more suitable. It seems that otherwise you know what I am talking about and we were told the same things.
I guess that means that you wouldn't consider bowhunting then. I've shot multiple deer with my bow and everysingle one of them ran at least 20 yards. More along the lines of at least 50 yards. All of my shots were place in the heart/lungs and were killing shots.
For me personally, no. But I understand the challenge of the bow hunt and won't criticize. While there is more suffering, there is also more leveling of the playing field.
Ive never met a hunter who said they can kill a deer or other medium+ size game 100% of the time with one shot and a drop. I think thats wildly unrealistic, and the vast majority of hunters would say, even with a clean hit, the animal will run a short distance.
The ones I've seen aren't "light switch" kills, but they also don't run a couple hundred yards. I've seen plenty of hunters take first shot hits where the animal drops or gets no further than 15 yards. I've also seen the same hunters pass up possible shots when they weren't confident of being able to do the same.
Wouldn't be the first time somebody suggested I was a PETA hunter, but that is how I was raised I guess. As the OP stated, he didn't have the best tool for the job, and really that is the only comment I am making.
Odie Dozer
10-26-11, 17:15
Cant pass up a 20 yard shot just because you have a 9mm. Of course that is the minimum caliber I would use. I don't think it was an unethical choice at all. Congrats.
In case you missed it, the first shot was a double lung shot with complete penetration through to the far side shoulder. He wasn't going far or for very long.
Nope, I saw that. But to me 9mm isn't an ethical hog gun. Same as a 22lr isn't an ethical deer gun. But I know lots of guys with meat in the freezer from a 22lr deer kill.
It is a personal preference. I doubt you'll change my mind any faster than I'll change yours on this. In the end a hog is dead and that is a win in my book.
Little ones!
Mmmmmm bacon...
The ones I've seen aren't "light switch" kills, but they also don't run a couple hundred yards. I've seen plenty of hunters take first shot hits where the animal drops or gets no further than 15 yards. I've also seen the same hunters pass up possible shots when they weren't confident of being able to do the same.
Wouldn't be the first time somebody suggested I was a PETA hunter, but that is how I was raised I guess. As the OP stated, he didn't have the best tool for the job, and really that is the only comment I am making.
Steyr, you keep saying the ones you've "seen". Have you actually taken an animal or more than one and had to make that judgement call yourself? What I'm having a hard time with is your use of words like "needless suffering" because I shot an animal more than once, even though it only ran a few yards before expiring. Then you say a large game animal being shot with a rifle & running a short distance is OK. How is one "needless suffering" & the other OK? It seems that the only distinction is what weapon was used. Considering the results and the particular circumstances involved, I would do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself again.
I was asked to go hog hunting last week, its something I have never done. I'm in the greater Tampa bay area and was wondering what wild hogs are good to eat?
The rule of thumb that we always use is if you can lift it up by it's back legs and hold it straight out, keep it for eating.
Now this is pig killin! https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91533
Steyr, you keep saying the ones you've "seen". Have you actually taken an animal or more than one and had to make that judgement call yourself?
Yes, but I mostly was speaking of better hunters than myself. I was pretty young when I did most of my hunting. But even the things like deer that I have taken were done pretty close with a .308 or better. I never got good enough for a single shot drop, but I didn't have any haul ass on me either.
What I'm having a hard time with is your use of words like "needless suffering" because I shot an animal more than once, even though it only ran a few yards before expiring. Then you say a large game animal being shot with a rifle & running a short distance is OK. How is one "needless suffering" & the other OK? It seems that the only distinction is what weapon was used. Considering the results and the particular circumstances involved, I would do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself again.
It isn't really the shot more than once part. Honestly, if you didn't get it good the first time you HAVE to hit it again or it suffers. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was pretty much talking about HAVING to shoot something more than once because there is no way 9mm is going to get it done with one shot.
Yes, but I mostly was speaking of better hunters than myself. I was pretty young when I did most of my hunting. But even the things like deer that I have taken were done pretty close with a .308 or better. I never got good enough for a single shot drop, but I didn't have any haul ass on me either.
It isn't really the shot more than once part. Honestly, if you didn't get it good the first time you HAVE to hit it again or it suffers. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was pretty much talking about HAVING to shoot something more than once because there is no way 9mm is going to get it done with one shot.
Well that's where you are mistaken in this case. The hog was hit in both lungs on shot #1. He was dead pork walking. The last two rounds just expedited the process. In fact, I've had hogs mortally hit with much larger rifle caliber rounds that still required follow up shots and not because of poor shot placement. Don't take the animal's natural stamina & toughness for granted.
Well that's where you are mistaken in this case. The hog was hit in both lungs on shot #1. He was dead pork walking. The last two rounds just expedited the process. In fact, I've had hogs mortally hit with much larger rifle caliber rounds that still required follow up shots and not because of poor shot placement. Don't take the animal's natural stamina & toughness for granted.
There was nothing wrong with the placement of your shot. The round itself simply wasn't enough to do the job quickly, thus requiring two more shots and lots of running around in pain.
Again, my sole criticism is I do not think you brought an adequate firearm / round combination to do the job. And any hunter would have encountered the same difficulty if they tried to do it with 115 gr. 9mm FMJ which is why I stated "I" personally wouldn't have done it.
And I am well aware of what a animal is capable of sustaining, which is again why I'd never use something like 115 gr. 9mm FMJ. I think if you were going to use a handgun that .45 is probably the minimum a hunter should use and I'd personally prefer .357 or .44 magnum.
That said, I've seen LOTS worse from people. But I don't consider those folks ethical hunters, I have a hard time qualifying some of them as hunters period. Some people are simply out there to kill things. And maybe it is because of them that I try and stay so far to the other end of the spectrum.
Might also just be that you are young (I'm guessing not stating). I did some things in my youth simply to see if I was capable of doing it. As a result I put a higher priority on seeing if I could make a difficult shot rather than making sure I had a quick kill. As I got older I became less impressed with the shot I made and more regretful of the avoidable suffering that resulted.
T
Might also just be that you are young (I'm guessing not stating). I did some things in my youth simply to see if I was capable of doing it. As a result I put a higher priority on seeing if I could make a difficult shot rather than making sure I had a quick kill. As I got older I became less impressed with the shot I made and more regretful of the avoidable suffering that resulted.
This would be an incorrect assumption.
I understand your opinion, but stand by my actions in this situation. I would not have shot at the animal if I was not confident that I could make a killing shot at the range involved. The caliber may not have been ideal, but it proved to be more than adequate. Your perception of "suffering" is just that, a perception. In reality, it was a very quick & efficient kill, with very little suffering involved. I suppose if you were an active hunter, your expectations would be more in line with the reality of what happens when you shoot an animal. I have seen them do all kinds of things and no encounter is ever the same. I can tell you that this was very quick, in my experience. Hogs are tough, they will run surprising distances when hit or charge a hunter at close range and neither is uncommon.
Considering the results and the particular circumstances involved, I would do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself again.
You used the tool you had on hand (vs the tool you may have preferred) and it worked perfectly. Good on you I say. Here's a vid of hog taken out with an air gun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyO7dcF1n8
This one is more impressive as it's at distance and not a cornered animal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUUCLc0ZHhQ&feature=related
Obviously, perfect set up for that shot, but shows shot placement an essential variable, and you clearly achieved that too.
Maybe I'm wrong but something I have been wondering about in this case. mtdawg169 shot the hog with a FMJ bullet. Couldn't this be compared to using a solid bullet on dangerous game. It sounds as if the 9mm FMJ's behaved like a solid would. If I remember right the first shot went through to the opposite side and broke the leg of the hog. The other 2 shots behaved the same also. Now I'm not advocating the use of 9mm FMJ as a hunting round but in this case, luckily, the round behaved like a solid would on a Cape Buffalo. I know i may be reaching but the similarities are there.
This would be an incorrect assumption.
I understand your opinion, but stand by my actions in this situation. I would not have shot at the animal if I was not confident that I could make a killing shot at the range involved. The caliber may not have been ideal, but it proved to be more than adequate. Your perception of "suffering" is just that, a perception. In reality, it was a very quick & efficient kill, with very little suffering involved. I suppose if you were an active hunter, your expectations would be more in line with the reality of what happens when you shoot an animal. I have seen them do all kinds of things and no encounter is ever the same. I can tell you that this was very quick, in my experience. Hogs are tough, they will run surprising distances when hit or charge a hunter at close range and neither is uncommon.
One correction, I was an active hunter for decades. My values and perception are completely in line with the reality of the hunting I did at that time.
We simply seem to have different values and ideas regarding hunting and what we each consider a clean quick kill.
One correction, I was an active hunter for decades. My values and perception are completely in line with the reality of the hunting I did at that time.
We simply seem to have different values and ideas regarding hunting and what we each consider a clean quick kill.
Fair enough.
Maybe I'm wrong but something I have been wondering about in this case. mtdawg169 shot the hog with a FMJ bullet. Couldn't this be compared to using a solid bullet on dangerous game. It sounds as if the 9mm FMJ's behaved like a solid would. If I remember right the first shot went through to the opposite side and broke the leg of the hog. The other 2 shots behaved the same also. Now I'm not advocating the use of 9mm FMJ as a hunting round but in this case, luckily, the round behaved like a solid would on a Cape Buffalo. I know i may be reaching but the similarities are there.
Over the course of this discussion, I have wondered the same thing. Taking the shields that are present on a mature boar into account, I'm not sure that a +P or 147 gr defensive load would have had the same results, as penetration would have been very different. I'm not advocating for 9mm fmj as an appropriate hunting round. But it has raised the question in my mind as to how effective a good defensive load would have been under these circumstances. As I stated earlier, I wasn't out "hunting" with a 9mm handgun and I'm not advocating for it either. I simply used what was available to dispatch a much maligned nuisance animal from our property.
I reload both my 9mm and SIG 357 with the same bullets for hunting, Hornady 124 grain XTP hollowpoints, and have taken dozens of hogs with both handguns (9mm Browning Hi-Power & SIG P-226 in .357SIG) at ranges up to 40 yards.
Out of 25 or so kills on hogs up to 225 pounds, only two have required a coup de grace follow up shot when I got to the carcass. I have also shot numerous hogs up to 425 pounds with my Thompson Center .44 MAG with 300 grain Hornady XTP reloads with similar results.
As always, with any weapon or wildlife, proper shot placement is key for a lethal kill and bottom line is if there is no available terminal shot placement, there is no shooting, unless someone's life is threatened.
This large sow took a 9mm handload from my Browning in the spinal column for an instant kill at 35 yards:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hogzilla.jpg
This large boar took a .357SIG handload from my P-226, all that was left were some oysters:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Big%20Boar%20Nutz.JPG
When handgun hunting for hogs, I always have a backup rifle or shotgun on me....
I reload both my 9mm and SIG 357 with the same bullets for hunting, Hornady 124 grain XTP hollowpoints, and have taken dozens of hogs with both handguns (9mm Browning Hi-Power & SIG P-226 in .357SIG) at ranges up to 40 yards.
Out of 25 or so kills on hogs up to 225 pounds, only two have required a coup de grace follow up shot when I got to the carcass. I have also shot numerous hogs up to 425 pounds with my Thompson Center .44 MAG with 300 grain Hornady XTP reloads with similar results.
As always, with any weapon or wildlife, proper shot placement is key for a lethal kill and bottom line is if there is no available terminal shot placement, there is no shooting, unless someone's life is threatened.
This large sow took a 9mm handload from my Browning in the spinal column for an instant kill at 35 yards:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hogzilla.jpg
This large boar took a .357SIG handload from my P-226, all that was left were some oysters:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Big%20Boar%20Nutz.JPG
When handgun hunting for hogs, I always have a backup rifle or shotgun on me....
Wow, I didn't expect to see that. Those are some big hogs. I'm curious, what shot placement do you use with that load?
Spinal column, when hit it takes out entire 2-3 vertebrae for instant kill, on necropsy there is a hole in the spine about the size of a fist!
Here is the entrance wound from a #8126N Hornady TAP LE 75 grain BTHP at 175 yards for an instant kill:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Hole.jpg
Tell me that is not a lethal wound....:p
http://www.hunt101.com/data/552/medium/TAP1.JPG
Here is the entrance wound from a #8126N Hornady TAP LE 75 grain BTHP at 175 yards for an instant kill:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Hole.jpg
Tell me that is not a lethal wound....:p
http://www.hunt101.com/data/552/medium/TAP1.JPG
That's the entrance wound? Damn. I've shot hogs with the 75 gr. TAP training ammo with very good results, but I've not seen anything quite like that.
Yeah, that is the entrance wound....:D
Went out the other side breaking two ribs for minimal meat loss.
That is why I take lung shots with the rifle, less meat loss and ease of cleaning as the entire pig is exanguinated into the thoracic cavity and no blood dripping during cleaning until I cut the diaphram.:D
Here is one for ya:D
Two Mexicans are stuck in the desert after crossing into the United States , wandering aimlessly and starving. They are about to just lie down and wait for death, when all of a sudden Luis says.........
"Hey Pepe, do you smell what I smell. Ees bacon, I theenk."
"Si, Luis, eet sure smells like bacon. "
With renewed hope they struggle up the next sand dune, & there, in the distance, is a tree loaded with bacon.
There's raw bacon, there's fried bacon, back bacon, double smoked bacon ... every imaginable kind of cured pork.
"Pepe, Pepe, we ees saved. Ees a bacon tree."
"Luis, maybe ees a meerage? We ees in the desert don't forget."
"Pepe, since when deed you ever hear of a meerage that smell like bacon...ees no meerage, ees a bacon tree."
And with that, Luis staggers towards the tree. He gets to within 5 metres, Pepe crawling close behind, when suddenly a machine gun opens up, and Luis drops like a wet sock. Mortally wounded, he warns Pepe with his dying breath,
"Pepe... go back man, you was right, ees not a bacon tree!"
"Luis, Luis mi amigo... what ees it? "
"Pepe.. ees not a bacon tree. Ees
Ees
Ees
Ees
Ees a ham bush...." :)
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