Skunk Pilot
10-26-11, 01:25
I did the Gander Mountain Academy Pro V Sim 300 Simulation (https://gandermtnacademy.gandermountain.com/simulation) this weekend with a friend. It was very, very fun. I can't get it out of my mind now, I really want to go again. YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zl4WnxcSmbs), go on the right side for more, I just used JDownloader (http://jdownloader.org/) to download all the simulation ones in 720p. The Pro V Sim 180 has 3 screens and the 300 has 5 screens.
We used the Glock G22 C02 model laser guns in the simulation. They also offer a Beretta 92FS model, but those have been having more It's a real Glock G22 that has been outfitted with a C02 system and the laser; apparently they cost around $5000 each. Granted the more stores Gander opens and the more VirTra (http://virtra.com/) sells to other police, military or businesses, I'm sure the price will go down, since I'm sure R&D is still featured into that cost right now (ie they haven't gotten the money back from R&D yet??). I forgot, the weight is very, very similar to a Glock with rounds in it (my case M&P, don't think they'd be far off) when the C02 is full especially. Well actually I couldn't tell the difference, but I don't shoot every week though either.
We started off with steel targets, I think it was 4 per screen, so 20 total. It's all timed from when you fire your first shot, I got it in 11.xx seconds. Really surprised I did that good the first time, I went after my friend tried two of these before me, which had to help. Then I got 13.xx, did another set later and got 16.xx or 17.xx after the CO2 ran out on another simulation scenario, so he let me choose and I picked the first one again, my favorite.
Then there were some other steel targets that you had to shoot twice, only counted if you hit in the head or the torso. Some moved and a couple had a friendly in front of it. Neither of the above was shown in the videos.
However then did a scenario that they did show on the video, with the 300 degree one, you really had to use your ears to determine where you had to turn to see if there was a threat or not. Also did that convenience store like in the video. There were two others that they didn't show on the video, there are even more IIRC. The most fun one (scariest by far if real life) was a night time parking scenario that had more than 2 or more people (not telling in case you do it). Was at least another one that one of us did. Even if you watch your friend do the same scenario, there are many outcomes that the computer randomly chooses, so by watching, you more than likely will not get the same one. There were two on the short video clips that we never saw, so I'm sure there is a fair amount more. I just read the local paper and it said LEO’s can show their badge and get a few more scenarios that regular people can’t get. There was one that was grainy though, so hope they get a new 720p or 1080p one to replace it soon.
You can only have 2 people in there at a time, but can have a bigger party and switch out. I do not recommend that though, as 2 people is the max you'd want to have to maximize your time. Actually you'd be better off doing the Pro V Sim 180 by yourself if you wanted to save money and have your friend do the Pro V Sim 300 at the same time. If you have more than 2 people, and all want to do the same one, whether 180 or 300, you might as well get 2 30 min. sessions.
The instructor did comment after we did a scenario, or one part of one, how the shot in real life would play out legally. So in that respect it can be good training. Now we didn't get the full experience, ie. we didn't call out that "if you take another step forward, I will shoot you... or if you don't drop that knife I will shoot..." I watched the video the night before we went and knew I should of done those things depending on the scenario, but just felt weird with my friend there. Another reason to do it by yourself. This really is about fun for most people, but really to get your mindset in a real life situation, which I think it does a very fine job at (especially for the money). Well if you have a conceal and carry weapon permit, then I’d highly advise to take it seriously, even the first go around. I know I am going to the next time I go.
I was told that they plan on getting holsters so you can practice your open carry drawing before you shoot. Granted not conceal and carry, but still very helpful. I'm sure once they have the holsters they might let you use your holster if it matches the Glock G22 or the Beretta 92FS. Probably have to talk to a manager at first, if not it might take 1-3 years once feedback starts coming in to headquarters that some stores have had people using there own xx holster for the Glock and they've never run into problems. Don't know if that would fly, but who knows.
They said they have been getting recommendation for XD's and M&P's so hopefully in the future they will start to add those. I know they said they have seen a direct increase in Glocks after people shot them in the sims. My first gun was a 23C with 3.5lb trigger and I sold it for the XDM9, I didn't like the grip angle. Then sold my XDM9 for the M&P9L which I love. I must say though, that while doing the sim scenarios you forget about the grip angle pretty quick. I did fidget with the gun to get a more comfortable feel in between some scenarios more than I would if it would of been my M&P. But still it felt really nice to shoot. I'd say the recoil is like a .22, I have a Buckmark and IIRC pretty similar. Would be nice to do this and shoot the Buckmark within 1-2 days of each other at most. There live range is $25 for an hour, pricy in my opinion, however they give you free targets (what my friend heard while we were there). Especially since my main indoor range (Bills GS&R) it's $20 by yourself for the day, or $15 with one or two other people.
I really, really wish they would of picked a more central location for this GM Academy though. It's in Lakeville, MN (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/storelocator.cgi?r=storeDirections&storeID=483), (WHY, WHY, WHY) which is the very, very far south of the Twin Cities metro area. Don't know why they didn't pick a central location like St. Louis Park or similar. Or pick Edina and then Blaine or Maple Grove. I'm sure they'd do 2-5 times the business (simulation – virtual only) if it wasn't so far for most people living in the Twin Cities. The live range wouldn’t do 2-5 times the business with Bills GS&R, but like I said above, I wouldn’t mind testing out my Buckmark right after a G22 simulation and don’t think I’d drive to Bills GS&R if the location they picked even was 5-10 miles away. The instructor said that the next one won't be in MN until 1.5 to 2 years, I think he said Forest Lake, but that's even farther for most people than Lakeville. I can understand that they want the live range with the virtual stuff, but they would still do very well in 6-12 months once word got out if it was in a more central location.
If you want to grab a slot, you need to do it 2 hours before the time, since that's how their system works online, also need to pay for it. You can take your chances by just showing up, depending on the time or location you might be able to get away with this for a while. Until it gets more popular at least. I think in the Lakeville area you can probably get away with it more than other locations in the US.
If you’re in MN, please email them and try to get one in Maple Grove or close by. They would probably get business from some people on their way to the cabin up north. Or get their women to try to shoot the virtual if they haven't shot a handgun before.
So I would highly, highly recommend the Pro V Sim's. The Virtual Range (https://gandermtnacademy.gandermountain.com/virtual-range) actually would be fun also if and when you can use a conceal and carry holster to practice if you don't really have access to a range where you can practice with your real gun and CC holster. It's as good as your going to get. But for me without being able to use an open carry or conceal carry holster, I'd rather just go to the live fire range and shoot my M&P.
Oh and if you have time, call up the nearest one (even if 500 miles away) and ask if the simulator ones use an M&P pistol, when they say no, then ask if they plan on adding that. American made and great fit for most people with the exchangeable back straps
I cannot comment on their instructors for CCW classes and handgun courses. I did see 2-4 people in a room where there was an instructor with a big screen LCD behind him. The facility was very, very nice though. Yes it's new, but it still was a nice feel. Since this was both our first time using the facilities, we had to watch a 4 min. video and sign some papers, so I'd get there 10 min. before your first scheduled time slot for sure, 15 min. to be more on the safe side if at night or on the weekend for your first time in case others have to sign paperwork... [[ I forgot, I'd say 15 min. since the computer had a slight hiccup at first and the gun didn't sync up right away, or it was just the PC, I know he took the gun out but couldn't remember if it was just the PC or if the gun caused the problem? We still got the full 30 min., it just wasn't exactly at 430pm though ]]
The simulator is so cool, that if I had the cash and it wouldn't affect my financial situation I would have this in my house (new bigger house) within 4-6 months. I am not kidding, after I win the lottery of course.
Hope that helps.
P.S. if your in the NW or Western Twin Cities, hit me up 2-4 days before your planning on going and I might go with you.
We used the Glock G22 C02 model laser guns in the simulation. They also offer a Beretta 92FS model, but those have been having more It's a real Glock G22 that has been outfitted with a C02 system and the laser; apparently they cost around $5000 each. Granted the more stores Gander opens and the more VirTra (http://virtra.com/) sells to other police, military or businesses, I'm sure the price will go down, since I'm sure R&D is still featured into that cost right now (ie they haven't gotten the money back from R&D yet??). I forgot, the weight is very, very similar to a Glock with rounds in it (my case M&P, don't think they'd be far off) when the C02 is full especially. Well actually I couldn't tell the difference, but I don't shoot every week though either.
We started off with steel targets, I think it was 4 per screen, so 20 total. It's all timed from when you fire your first shot, I got it in 11.xx seconds. Really surprised I did that good the first time, I went after my friend tried two of these before me, which had to help. Then I got 13.xx, did another set later and got 16.xx or 17.xx after the CO2 ran out on another simulation scenario, so he let me choose and I picked the first one again, my favorite.
Then there were some other steel targets that you had to shoot twice, only counted if you hit in the head or the torso. Some moved and a couple had a friendly in front of it. Neither of the above was shown in the videos.
However then did a scenario that they did show on the video, with the 300 degree one, you really had to use your ears to determine where you had to turn to see if there was a threat or not. Also did that convenience store like in the video. There were two others that they didn't show on the video, there are even more IIRC. The most fun one (scariest by far if real life) was a night time parking scenario that had more than 2 or more people (not telling in case you do it). Was at least another one that one of us did. Even if you watch your friend do the same scenario, there are many outcomes that the computer randomly chooses, so by watching, you more than likely will not get the same one. There were two on the short video clips that we never saw, so I'm sure there is a fair amount more. I just read the local paper and it said LEO’s can show their badge and get a few more scenarios that regular people can’t get. There was one that was grainy though, so hope they get a new 720p or 1080p one to replace it soon.
You can only have 2 people in there at a time, but can have a bigger party and switch out. I do not recommend that though, as 2 people is the max you'd want to have to maximize your time. Actually you'd be better off doing the Pro V Sim 180 by yourself if you wanted to save money and have your friend do the Pro V Sim 300 at the same time. If you have more than 2 people, and all want to do the same one, whether 180 or 300, you might as well get 2 30 min. sessions.
The instructor did comment after we did a scenario, or one part of one, how the shot in real life would play out legally. So in that respect it can be good training. Now we didn't get the full experience, ie. we didn't call out that "if you take another step forward, I will shoot you... or if you don't drop that knife I will shoot..." I watched the video the night before we went and knew I should of done those things depending on the scenario, but just felt weird with my friend there. Another reason to do it by yourself. This really is about fun for most people, but really to get your mindset in a real life situation, which I think it does a very fine job at (especially for the money). Well if you have a conceal and carry weapon permit, then I’d highly advise to take it seriously, even the first go around. I know I am going to the next time I go.
I was told that they plan on getting holsters so you can practice your open carry drawing before you shoot. Granted not conceal and carry, but still very helpful. I'm sure once they have the holsters they might let you use your holster if it matches the Glock G22 or the Beretta 92FS. Probably have to talk to a manager at first, if not it might take 1-3 years once feedback starts coming in to headquarters that some stores have had people using there own xx holster for the Glock and they've never run into problems. Don't know if that would fly, but who knows.
They said they have been getting recommendation for XD's and M&P's so hopefully in the future they will start to add those. I know they said they have seen a direct increase in Glocks after people shot them in the sims. My first gun was a 23C with 3.5lb trigger and I sold it for the XDM9, I didn't like the grip angle. Then sold my XDM9 for the M&P9L which I love. I must say though, that while doing the sim scenarios you forget about the grip angle pretty quick. I did fidget with the gun to get a more comfortable feel in between some scenarios more than I would if it would of been my M&P. But still it felt really nice to shoot. I'd say the recoil is like a .22, I have a Buckmark and IIRC pretty similar. Would be nice to do this and shoot the Buckmark within 1-2 days of each other at most. There live range is $25 for an hour, pricy in my opinion, however they give you free targets (what my friend heard while we were there). Especially since my main indoor range (Bills GS&R) it's $20 by yourself for the day, or $15 with one or two other people.
I really, really wish they would of picked a more central location for this GM Academy though. It's in Lakeville, MN (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/storelocator.cgi?r=storeDirections&storeID=483), (WHY, WHY, WHY) which is the very, very far south of the Twin Cities metro area. Don't know why they didn't pick a central location like St. Louis Park or similar. Or pick Edina and then Blaine or Maple Grove. I'm sure they'd do 2-5 times the business (simulation – virtual only) if it wasn't so far for most people living in the Twin Cities. The live range wouldn’t do 2-5 times the business with Bills GS&R, but like I said above, I wouldn’t mind testing out my Buckmark right after a G22 simulation and don’t think I’d drive to Bills GS&R if the location they picked even was 5-10 miles away. The instructor said that the next one won't be in MN until 1.5 to 2 years, I think he said Forest Lake, but that's even farther for most people than Lakeville. I can understand that they want the live range with the virtual stuff, but they would still do very well in 6-12 months once word got out if it was in a more central location.
If you want to grab a slot, you need to do it 2 hours before the time, since that's how their system works online, also need to pay for it. You can take your chances by just showing up, depending on the time or location you might be able to get away with this for a while. Until it gets more popular at least. I think in the Lakeville area you can probably get away with it more than other locations in the US.
If you’re in MN, please email them and try to get one in Maple Grove or close by. They would probably get business from some people on their way to the cabin up north. Or get their women to try to shoot the virtual if they haven't shot a handgun before.
So I would highly, highly recommend the Pro V Sim's. The Virtual Range (https://gandermtnacademy.gandermountain.com/virtual-range) actually would be fun also if and when you can use a conceal and carry holster to practice if you don't really have access to a range where you can practice with your real gun and CC holster. It's as good as your going to get. But for me without being able to use an open carry or conceal carry holster, I'd rather just go to the live fire range and shoot my M&P.
Oh and if you have time, call up the nearest one (even if 500 miles away) and ask if the simulator ones use an M&P pistol, when they say no, then ask if they plan on adding that. American made and great fit for most people with the exchangeable back straps
I cannot comment on their instructors for CCW classes and handgun courses. I did see 2-4 people in a room where there was an instructor with a big screen LCD behind him. The facility was very, very nice though. Yes it's new, but it still was a nice feel. Since this was both our first time using the facilities, we had to watch a 4 min. video and sign some papers, so I'd get there 10 min. before your first scheduled time slot for sure, 15 min. to be more on the safe side if at night or on the weekend for your first time in case others have to sign paperwork... [[ I forgot, I'd say 15 min. since the computer had a slight hiccup at first and the gun didn't sync up right away, or it was just the PC, I know he took the gun out but couldn't remember if it was just the PC or if the gun caused the problem? We still got the full 30 min., it just wasn't exactly at 430pm though ]]
The simulator is so cool, that if I had the cash and it wouldn't affect my financial situation I would have this in my house (new bigger house) within 4-6 months. I am not kidding, after I win the lottery of course.
Hope that helps.
P.S. if your in the NW or Western Twin Cities, hit me up 2-4 days before your planning on going and I might go with you.