View Full Version : P30 or keep my Glock?
Ive got two Glocks in .40 S&W. A 22 and a 27. I've always shot to the left with them and now I'm thinking I just might need/want a different gun.
I like my Glocks. It they have ways felt kind of odd in my hands. I've been looking and I think the P30 might be the way for me to go.
How hard is cleaning/maintaining the HK pistols? I've been spoiled with the Glocks cause you can ignore them and they still work.
Anyone else switch from Glock to HK able to offer some insights?
excellent, i'll read up on it.
Thanks.
I thought about switching to a P30 from a G19 at one point. I went and rented one and shot a few hundred rounds through it to try and decide. I found that my thumbs forward grip had to be altered because of the P30's slide lock. I didnt buy it. Nice shooting gun though.
Hopefully my local range has one I can rent so I can try it out.
3 years ago i bought a p30(i'm left-handed and liked the ambi contorls on the hks),and was impressed with its eroognomics and feel. in the interim i sold my early-gen2 glock 19.
the hk p30 is easy to maintain, and shoots well.
i personally couldn't get used to its trigger, despite work by bill springfield and other.:( this seems to be the main, most comon complaint about the hks in general and p30 in particular- their triggers leaves alot to be desired). same for my now sold hk p2000sk.
i replaced them with the new walther PPQ, which mates great ergonomics with a terrific trigger right out of the box.
just to complet the cycle, on a whim, i also added a gen4 glock 19 as my BUG pistol. i think that glock has done a great job in redesigning their gen 4(despite the several hickups initally). it feels better and is more accurate then my previous gen2g19.
About the HK triggers. Are the complaints only about the sa/da triggers or also the lem triggers?
I had an H&K45 with a Bill Trigger job. Both pulls were good. Im a 1911 guy mainly so I carried and shot it cocked and locked. Would do the same with a p30 if I had it. They are fine. Not custom 1911 good but certainly not a hinderance. At least the examples Ive had/shot were
About the HK triggers. Are the complaints only about the sa/da triggers or also the lem triggers?
mine were the v3 ,da/sa version.
i prefer striker-fired orientation....
Guinnessman
10-26-11, 07:49
I owned a P30 for about 2 years and sold it due to the trigger. It was a standard DA/SA and I would have preferred the LEM trigger. The gun was accurate, ergonomic, and had the typical HK reliability.
Personally, I shoot my Glocks better than all of my HK's. The lower bore axis of the Glock combined with the trigger, makes the Glock suit me better. I would rather have the lighter Glock trigger pull and shorter reset.
The Smith and Wesson M&P has great ergonomics that are similar to the P30. That gun may be worth checking out as well. Take a M&P and throw in some Apex Tactical Parts, and you will have a great shooter at a fraction of the price of the HK. Good luck.
Ive got two Glocks in .40 S&W. A 22 and a 27. I've always shot to the left with them and now I'm thinking I just might need/want a different gun.
I like my Glocks. It they have ways felt kind of odd in my hands. I've been looking and I think the P30 might be the way for me to go.
How hard is cleaning/maintaining the HK pistols? I've been spoiled with the Glocks cause you can ignore them and they still work.
Anyone else switch from Glock to HK able to offer some insights?
If the sights are zerod then shooting left isn't the guns fault. A different gun may help alleviate/hide what you are doing wrong. Have you tried different connectors or tirgger springs in the glock? I greatly prefer my g23 with a (-) connector over stock.
I had a Gen4 G17 that I traded for a used P-30. The Glock functioned just fine, I just couldn't shoot it as well as I would have liked. I also prefer the hammer fired DA/SA guns for the safety in unusual carry situations. With practice and dry fire the DA pull is still heavy but has smoothed out considerably, the SA pull is light and crisp with a lot of take up. The reset is long compared to a Glock or a government model. HK's are expensive and if I had not found a lightly used one at a good price I might be with something else.
If the sights are zerod then shooting left isn't the guns fault.
While shooting left/low left is often a sign of poor trigger control and/or anticipation, quite a few Glocks do shoot left. There have been discussions in this regard here and elsewhere. I know of multiple excellent shooters who had to drift their sights. My own G-19, with negative connector, shot left in hands of multi-time IDPA and USPSA National champion whose particular claim to fame is winning those matches with DA/SA guns (read: dude knows about trigger control). I hear that propensity shooting to left is more prevalent in Gen4 guns, but this has not been substantiated.
How hard is cleaning/maintaining the HK pistols? I've been spoiled with the Glocks cause you can ignore them and they still work.
Anyone else switch from Glock to HK able to offer some insights?
On the armorer level, i.e. detail strip, P30 is a bit more difficult. On end-user level, no difference in care and maintenance.
I am in a process of switching from Glock to P30 LEM. Expect delays and grip adjustment, as well as increased cost of magazines. You'll probably need to spend some money on better sights with P30 (same with Glock but there are more options here). It takes time and dedication to figure the trigger. You might be frustrated with a longer reset. It took me about 500 rounds to start hitting as well as I do with Glock at slow pace, and I am still not quite there in trigger manipulations. A rewarding part, though, that groups shrank, owing to better inherent accuracy of P30.
Basically, as with any change towards different gun, especially with harder trigger, you should expect temporary decline and be ready to deal with. I am back to ball and dummy drills and slow dry-fire, things I've not had to do with Glock for some time.
Which ever way you go it will work out good enough as they're both fine pistols. The search for the grail will go on and on. I've seen several high volume training shooters report changing from the P30 - even with light LEM - back to Glocks, and others that stay HK.
I rented and ran just 50 rounds through a P30 to see what all the fuss was about and it was a nice pistol. If I was made of $$$ I'd get one but while it was very nice and if that's what I had I'd be happy, I didn't find anything about it that tempted me to change.
A long term test was referenced above. They are great reads. He's at about 45K rds through his Gen 4 17. On a thread about which to pick for a ccw choice, he candidly leaned P30 followed by the 17. As he notes, there's more to a choice than just purely splits or slow fire precision or etc etc etc. For some it may come down to carry method. Many dialed in folks are adopting appendix inside the waistband (AIWB). Many of those strongly prefer a hammer gun (P30) over a striker gun for the margin of safety during re-holstering. The whole "system" needs to be factored in.
The reset, even with LEM, sucks.
montanadave
10-26-11, 13:09
Check out the Walther PPQ. Feels as good, if not better, than a P30 in the hand and has a nice "Glock-style" trigger with a very short reset.
For folks that love the P30 but hate the H&K trigger options, the PPQ might be a good option.
Only downside is the Walther mag release, which some can't seem to warm up to. And the relative scarcity of accessories when compared to Glock, M&P, etc.
Failure2Stop
10-26-11, 13:15
If you decide to go over to the P30, go with an LEM trigger.
I prefer the P30 over the G19 simply for ergonomics. Right now, there isn't anything else that comes close.
I have attempted to displace/replace my G19 several times, once with the P30 but also a couple of times with M&P's. Each time I came back to the G19.
True, it doesn't feel as natural in-the-hand as far as shape, but I found that I can more easily get a vise-like grip on the Glock's blocky profile, which better locks it into my hand and translates into greater control. The others tended to twist around more, and as a result were a lot more difficult to shoot accurately with speed.
My best friend and fellow shooter just started shooting Glocks a few months ago switching over from 1911's. He also had a shooting to the left issue he installed a after market beaver tail/back strap and problem solved.
As much as I like HKs you should at least give the Glock a fair chance. With that being said, I'm sure the P30 will serve you well.
Good luck.
I have attempted to displace/replace my G19 several times, once with the P30 but also a couple of times with M&P's. Each time I came back to the G19.
True, it doesn't feel as natural in-the-hand as far as shape, but I found that I can more easily get a vise-like grip on the Glock's blocky profile, which better locks it into my hand and translates into greater control. The others tended to twist around more, and as a result were a lot more difficult to shoot accurately with speed.
I agree totally. The P30 feels better, but does not "lock" into my hand the same way my G19 RTF2, does. No other pistol does, for that matter.
Both are truly excellent guns. For years, I've been tempted by the siren song of the HK P30/HK45/45C/2000.
However...before pulling the financial trigger, I realize that I'm exceptionally pleased with my Glocks-how they shoot, how easy they are to maintain and detail-disassemble (and re-assemble), how inexpensive parts are (and how rarely you actually really need replacement parts), and how available parts and magazines are. And, of course, how I've already got the requisite holsters/magazine pouches/spare magazines on hand...
None of the above is really an inditment against the HK gun(s). For a shooter initially choosing between one and the other, I think that the HK P30 has better ergonomics/ergonomic flexibility (thanks to the numerous sideplate and backstrap permutations available), and arguably greater intrinsic component quality. They're relatively low maintenance, but to do a detailed disassembly, you'd better be an engineer, and have 3 hands and skilled hand/eye coordination...And triggerpulls/resets have been the recipient of a steady drumbeat of criticism over the years; rectifiable, but often requiring somewhat expensive/difficult to obtain parts/gunsmithing efforts-considering the relatively high initial cost of the guns, this seems a bit much to ask of the user, and something that HK should clean up as an inherent part of manufacturing (especially at their selling prices).
On the other hand, Glocks are significantly less expensive, and you quickly end up "adjusting to the tool" in little time with relatively little drama. Component quality is more than adequate for the platform and actual use. Triggerpulls and trigger resets are usually quite decent, and modifications/improvements via either parts swapping and/or action polishing/work are easily accomplished-often by the user.
The shooting to the left syndrome may be several things-a software/training issue, or a hardware one (regarding the hardware, I suggest replacing the slidelock and slidelock spring for starters and see if things improve).
Some shooters simply shoot better with some guns than with others. At the end of the day, there really isn't a bad decision to be made here. But I would do some due diligence research before jumping from one platform to another-you might find that there are some easy and inexpensive fixes regarding your performance concerns with your Glock.
Best, Jon
Did the P30 thing, had 2 actually, the DA/SA V3, and then a LEM that I converted to V1 "light LEM" spec... trigger sucked no matter what, can make a Glock with a lighter connector and/or stronger trigger-spring feel amazing in comparison. IMHO the Glock is better in just about every way that matters most, and trading a lot away to get a better feeling grip wasn't enough to convince me.
I can understand wanting to move to a platform that offers about the same reliability and ruggedness if it were to offer a better trigger than the Glocks's sproing-action, but sadly the P30 or really any of the H&K's just don't have it. I'd suggest looking at your grip or maybe other things that might need to be modified in order to hit better with the ol' Block.
FWIW, while not my cup of tea, the trigger on the new Walther PPQ is quite surprisingly good (best I've ever felt on a polymer pistol really), and otherwise it might as well be a P30 in all other aspects...
Hogsgunwild
10-26-11, 15:43
If you decide to go over to the P30, go with an LEM trigger.
I prefer the P30 over the G19 simply for ergonomics. Right now, there isn't anything else that comes close.
I'll second this. Love my light LEM on my P2000. Include the P2000 in your search. I actually slightly prefer it to the P30 but I like both a lot. I tend to like the P2000 grip size and texture better. The P2000 is everything I always wished my Glock 23s were. I still like the Glock trigger a lot but have given up on the Glock after twenty years of owning them due to ergonomics issues and I'm tired of fighting it.
As a long time 1911 owner, I was very surprised to find that I shot my P2000 better than my mid-sized M&P 45 with the Apex Tactical FSS trigger. The smaller grip size of the P2000 seems to be a benefit and I only have around 600 rounds on my M&P so I need to give the M&P some more time. The idea behind buying the M&P was to standardize my carry guns as all single action with thumb safeties (1911s and M&Ps) but I didn't expect my P2000 to feel and shoot so much better for me.
After everything I have read pertaining to speed and shooting on a timer I would guess that the Glock and M&P would have the faster trigger over the H&K. The feel of my Glock and M&P triggers makes me think that I would be slightly faster with them but all of the H&K's positive attributes outweigh the possible speed benefit for me.
True, it doesn't feel as natural in-the-hand as far as shape, but I found that I can more easily get a vise-like grip on the Glock's blocky profile, which better locks it into my hand and translates into greater control.
I feel the same way, but objective measurements so far has not supported subjective perception, see below.
After everything I have read pertaining to speed and shooting on a timer I would guess that the Glock and M&P would have the faster trigger over the H&K. The feel of my Glock and M&P triggers makes me think that I would be slightly faster with them but all of the H&K's positive attributes outweigh the possible speed benefit for me.
Have to do the timer, can't rely on "I would guess". My early timed comparisons showed faster splits on low-probability targets and faster first shots from ready with P30 than Glock.
Check out the Walther PPQ. Feels as good, if not better, than a P30 in the hand and has a nice "Glock-style" trigger with a very short reset.
For folks that love the P30 but hate the H&K trigger options, the PPQ might be a good option.
Only downside is the Walther mag release, which some can't seem to warm up to. And the relative scarcity of accessories when compared to Glock, M&P, etc.
i'll second these statements fully!
additonally. anyone who comes of a glock- style trigger will find the learning curve of an hk trigger to be quite frustrating to say the least. the walther offers a great improvment on that.
i'll second these statements fully!
additonally. anyone who comes of a glock- style trigger will find the learning curve of an hk trigger to be quite frustrating to say the least. the walther offers a great improvment on that.
I bought a PPQ from Grant, pretty much on faith, not holding one until the day I bought it, and not shooting one until after I bought it..The Walther did not dissapoint...I look at the PPQ as the striker fired P-30 HK won't make, Frankly, I think it may well be one of the most underrated pistols available today.
As JHC mentioned above, for many of P30 converts the decision to change came from desire to carry in an appendix position with a higher margin of safety. From that prospective, what Walther did with PPQ makes it the least desirable pistol of all polymer striker options out there.
As JHC mentioned above, for many of P30 converts the decision to change came from desire to carry in an appendix position with a higher margin of safety. From that prospective, what Walther did with PPQ makes it the least desirable pistol of all polymer striker options out there.
Still, if that's all one can find wrong with it,That's more of a personal preferance issue than anything..I carry IWB so, for me it's not a problem. I understand what you're saying though.
As JHC mentioned above, for many of P30 converts the decision to change came from desire to carry in an appendix position with a higher margin of safety. From that prospective, what Walther did with PPQ makes it the least desirable pistol of all polymer striker options out there.
I've just handled a PPQ and I am considering buying one to work out. But it's trigger is SOOOO nice - crisp and light - that it would worry me a bit. I felt it was definitely lighter than any Glock with a "-" connector I have tried. Felt to me closer to the unobtanium "minus minus" I had the chance to dry fire. But regardless, I hope it's a roaring success.
I've just handled a PPQ and I am considering buying one to work out. But it's trigger is SOOOO nice - crisp and light - that it would worry me a bit. I felt it was definitely lighter than any Glock with a "-" connector I have tried. Felt to me closer to the unobtanium "minus minus" I had the chance to dry fire. But regardless, I hope it's a roaring success.
The triggers are supposed to break in the 5lb range, If I'm not mistaken,in the orginial PPQ thread, I think Grant put a trigger pull gage on a PPQ,and that's pretty much what he got. I had him install a Apex FSS on my Midsize.45, and even though I watched Grant put the gage on it,and it came up at just over 5lbs, when you pulled it yourself it feels like it's alot less.. That's one handgun I can honestly say I'll never sell.
Still, if that's all one can find wrong with it,That's more of a personal preferance issue than anything..I carry IWB so, for me it's not a problem. To be fair, one would have to include all Glocks, and M&P's without thumb safteys on the least desirable list as far as AIWB goes.
I agree, and that's one of the reasons I switched to P30. I am uncomfortable carrying even a stock Glock AIWB. PPQ, as JHC stated, has a lighter pull than Glock with a negative connector - that's why I put it lower on that "AIWB list". What bums me is that they (Walther) got rid of what I think is a fantastic feature that they have on P99 and PPS - striker exposed at the slide's backplate.
I found that my thumbs forward grip had to be altered because of the P30's slide lock. I didnt buy it. Nice shooting gun though.
If it would help anyone with this problem in the future, The "SLIM" slide stop for the P2000 will work beautifully on the HKP30 and goes a long way to preventing this. A friend just installed a set on his P30 and it allowed him to shoot normally.
As soon as HKparts gets some in I'm ordering sets for my HK45 and 45C.
To be specific I'm talking about the "Slim" model slide stop not the factory standard part.
Have to do the timer, can't rely on "I would guess". My early timed comparisons showed faster splits on low-probability targets and faster first shots from ready with P30 than Glock.
IMO, the P30 will work best if you use a press-out but if not, not so much.
If it would help anyone with this problem in the future, The "SLIM" slide stop for the P2000 will work beautifully on the HKP30 and goes a long way to preventing this. A friend just installed a set on his P30 and it allowed him to shoot normally.
As soon as HKparts gets some in I'm ordering sets for my HK45 and 45C.
To be specific I'm talking about the "Slim" model slide stop not the factory standard part.
You might try HK customer service, that's where I got mine.
I agree, and that's one of the reasons I switched to P30. I am uncomfortable carrying even a stock Glock AIWB. PPQ, as JHC stated, has a lighter pull than Glock with a negative connector - that's why I put it lower on that "AIWB list". What bums me is that they (Walther) got rid of what I think is a fantastic feature that they have on P99 and PPS - striker exposed at the slide's backplate.
I'd be willing to bet the P-99 striker and backplate would fit on a PPQ's slide,I don't think there' a whole lot of difference in the slides themselves. As far as the triggers go, If i'm not mistaken they (PPQ) break at around 5lbs, it is hard to estimate without a triggerpull gage,As I found out when Grant has installed a Apex FSS in my Midsize.45, it honestly breaks at over 5lbs,(according to the gage) but it sure dosen't feel like it.
St.Michael
10-27-11, 15:55
Ive got two Glocks in .40 S&W. A 22 and a 27. I've always shot to the left with them and now I'm thinking I just might need/want a different gun.
I like my Glocks. It they have ways felt kind of odd in my hands. I've been looking and I think the P30 might be the way for me to go.
How hard is cleaning/maintaining the HK pistols? I've been spoiled with the Glocks cause you can ignore them and they still work.
Anyone else switch from Glock to HK able to offer some insights?
If you are shooting left you may have too much finger on the trigger and or be slapping it when you fire. I had the same problem when I started shooting. As far as swapping. I swapped from Glock to HK and I love HK triggers. Single action for the win. I actually was and have been going over things though because I need a new rig and was thinking of swapping over to the M&P platform. Compared in price to the USP it wins hands down. For the price of a SMith you will have money left over for a holster and such.
The triggers are supposed to break in the 5lb range, If I'm not mistaken,in the orginial PPQ thread, I think Grant put a trigger pull gage on a PPQ,and that's pretty much what he got. I had him install a Apex FSS on my Midsize.45, and even though I watched Grant put the gage on it,and it came up at just over 5lbs, when you pulled it yourself it feels like it's alot less.. That's one handgun I can honestly say I'll never sell.
My trigger and senses are in no way calibrated so the 5lbs may be true. I hope so . . . because I really am starting to want one of these. LOL
Ive got two Glocks in .40 S&W. A 22 and a 27. I've always shot to the left with them and now I'm thinking I just might need/want a different gun.
I like my Glocks. It they have ways felt kind of odd in my hands. I've been looking and I think the P30 might be the way for me to go.
How hard is cleaning/maintaining the HK pistols? I've been spoiled with the Glocks cause you can ignore them and they still work.
Anyone else switch from Glock to HK able to offer some insights?
It's my opinion that the Glock is superior to the P30 in either 9mm or .40 S&W. It has less parts, a better trigger and a better interface with the average human hand. While the HK is an awfully nice little pistol, the Glock outshines it through it's pristine simplicity....Also, I am not a fan of the LEM, being spoiled as I am by the Glock's reset, the HK's really stands out as mediocre, in my experience being long and somewhat mushy...Just my two cents...;)
While i'm an engineering guy and love the hk's, so many seem to prefer the p30 for the grips. While i'm new to this list and have already got 10 penalty points whatever the f that means, i hope i won't incur more points by plugging the Dave Bowie glock grip reductions. I'm a long time 1911 hobby gunsmith and never liked glocks and sold my 17 after shooting it ipsc for a season. But i kept my 19 though. Didn't feel right though until the grip reduction. Carrying it now. Put Glock on the map for me. The 19 was a milestone in firepower to size/weight. The grip change not only does the most important thing of affording a much better handweld, but the gun itself is smaller to boot. Having said all that, i've also got the hots for the p30 as i personally believe the HK's are signifiganly more reliable pieces, and now that us civies are carrying, thats job one, and thus HK. But i do admit to quite a love affair i'm having with the Bowie 19. And the PPQ is calling my name. Striker fired HK down the road?
OP, have you tried a Grip Force Adapter?
http://gripforceproducts.com/
This might help, I installed one on my Gen 3 G19 and am hoping to test it out today. Mine shoots left as well so I shall see if it gets corrected. It is probably just my finger however.
i hope i won't incur more points by plugging the Dave Bowie glock grip reductions. I'm a long time 1911 hobby gunsmith and never liked glocks and sold my 17 after shooting it ipsc for a season. But i kept my 19 though. Didn't feel right though until the grip reduction. Carrying it now. Put Glock on the map for me. The 19 was a milestone in firepower to size/weight. The grip change not only does the most important thing of affording a much better handweld, but the gun itself is smaller to boot. name. Striker fired HK down the road?
I couldn't agree more with this. For years I thought Bowie's pattern looked like a weird mess. Then I shot Vicker's G17 with the work done on it described here and it's an entirely different gun. Worlds better than before, and I never had a problem before.
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