good ammo deal ?

[moonshot]

I am still on the low end of the AR-15 learning curve, so please help me out. Earlier today, I saw some Winchester White Box 55gr FMJ Q3131 in 5.56 for $13 per box of 20.

On a strict $/round basis, it's not such a good deal. My training ammo is American Eagle 50gr HP or Black Hills 55gr FMJ, all for less per round, but all in .223 Rem.

My goto ammo is Hornady TAP or Black Hills 68gr HP, all but the TAP is still cheaper, and the TAP is the LE red box, and I think worth the premium for a few boxes, but it too is.223 Rem.

I don't remember where I saw this (it might have been Ammo Oracle), but I read that at ranges under 200 yards, there was no advantage to 5.56 over .223, and a good .223 was preferable to a bad 5.56.

My question...is this round preferable for self-defense over my other choices? It's too expensive for plinking, but it is available in large quantity (they had around 3000 rounds available).

moonshot

[markm]

The last two boxes of 3131 I bought were pretty NASTY! Mixed head stamps, ratty looking, etc. I had a malf with it too. :(

3131 has never had a great reputation. I've heard several instructors note it as problematic ammo (blown primers, etc.)

I most certainly would not pay 1/3 of that price for 3131.

3131a on the other hand is very good stuff.

[KintlaLake]

I've heard several instructors note it as problematic ammo (blown primers, etc.)

IIRC, at least one of those instructors was talking about Q3131A (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=49459&postcount=1).

I recently paid $48.95/100 for Q3131. It runs fine in my M&P 15.

[Hootiewho]

I don't know when your birthday is, but I got a coupon from Midwayusa for mine the other day and I used it to buy 1K of Black Hills Blue Box 55 grain for 0.29/round. I saved about 60 bucks for the 1k. Just an idea.

[Submariner]

Heavy .223 cal. is superior to 55 gr. M193.
Try this. (http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=185)

[markm]

IIRC, at least one of those instructors was talking about Q3131A (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=49459&postcount=1).


WOW! That's the first time I've read/heard negative feedback on Israeli ammo.

I've read and heard that quite often about the American made stuff (3131) though. Interesting.

[Shihan]

I have had zero problems with the Q3131A. Outdoormarksman has Q3131 for 399.00 per k.

[moonshot]

Submariner,

Thanks for the link. I had seen it before, in fact it was there I saw my info on range and good .223 vs bad 5.56, not Ammo Oracle.

I understand heavy OTM is the way to go, although in my 1/9 twist, I am not sure just how heavy I can go. My current shooting range offers 50 yards max. I don't know if the 75gr round will stabilize in my 1/9 barrel. Some say yes, some say no. I am taking a class in early spring, with a 400 yard range. I'll try there. Until then, I'll stock up on what should be fine even in my barrel - BH 68gr HP.

I was wondering about the Q3131 due to it being 5.56, as I do not have any 5.56 ammo. If it was true mil-spec, it might fragment at longer range than I can currently reach.

It sounds like what I have is fine, and I don't think I'll buy this supply. If it were cheaper, maybe then.

Thanks again to all.

moonshot

[Shihan]

Submariner,

Thanks for the link. I had seen it before, in fact it was there I saw my info on range and good .223 vs bad 5.56, not Ammo Oracle.

I understand heavy OTM is the way to go, although in my 1/9 twist, I am not sure just how heavy I can go. My current shooting range offers 50 yards max. I don't know if the 75gr round will stabilize in my 1/9 barrel. Some say yes, some say no. I am taking a class in early spring, with a 400 yard range. I'll try there. Until then, I'll stock up on what should be fine even in my barrel - BH 68gr HP.

I was wondering about the Q3131 due to it being 5.56, as I do not have any 5.56 ammo. If it was true mil-spec, it might fragment at longer range than I can currently reach.

It sounds like what I have is fine, and I don't think I'll buy this supply. If it were cheaper, maybe then.

Thanks again to all.

moonshot

It fragments in the body. What kind of AR do you have? If it has a 5.56 barrel and chamber you will be fine. Take you AR out before the class with whatever you want to use and test it. Out of my 1/9's I shoot up to 69grain.

[Submariner]

I have had zero problems with the Q3131A. Outdoormarksman has Q3131 for 399.00 per k.

And for $40 more can get Black Hills 68 gr. or 75 gr. OTM from JKiser, delivered.

[GONIF]

BH blue box from J Kiser is a great ammo at a good price and more accurate than any mil spec 55 grain or 62 grain ammo . I have shot 1000's of rounds of Q3131a and have NEVER EVER had any problems ,I have a bunch in my ammo stach and find it to be great stuff and equal to Fed xm193 .

[Cold Zero]

I just shot 500 rds. of Win' white box .223, 55 gr. f.m.j., USA223R1. US made ammo and not one hiccup. ;)

[moonshot]

Shihan,

I have a Bushmaster 16" M4gery, 1/9 twist. The barrel says 5.56 NATO, but I've been told by others on this board that may be wishful thinking. I don't have a gage to test the bore or chamber.

I might be able to accurately shoot a 75gr round, but until I can test, I will refrain from stocking up on it. I wish I could test out to 200 yards, but I can't. Even so, I have been buying small quantities of 68gr BH HP. Its got a good reputation, and I am afraid if I wait until I can be absolutely sure, I'll either be unable to find any or it will be even higher in price than it is now.

moonshot

[TWR]

You need to shoot the heavy bullets for yourself and see. I bought a 1/8 twist Krieger barrel and started working on some 75 and 77 grain loads. Just for fun I tried these loads in my Colt 1/9 twist barrel and it shoots them under MOA at 100 yards. You never know until you try it for yourself.

[ST911]

I understand heavy OTM is the way to go, although in my 1/9 twist, I am not sure just how heavy I can go. My current shooting range offers 50 yards max. I don't know if the 75gr round will stabilize in my 1/9 barrel. Some say yes, some say no.

They've stablized fine in the 1/9 barrels I've shot them in, mostly BHA and TAP. The 77s as well. Not optimal, but not unacceptable. Certainly, a moot point at proximal ranges.


Shihan, I have a Bushmaster 16" M4gery, 1/9 twist. The barrel says 5.56 NATO, but I've been told by others on this board that may be wishful thinking. I don't have a gage to test the bore or chamber.

I'm not Shihan, but I've seen a lot of Bushmasters. You're more likely to have the 5.56 chamber with the Bushmaster than some other clones. Test reaming of seem produced little to no material. Don't lose sleep unless you have a problem.


Even so, I have been buying small quantities of 68gr BH HP. Its got a good reputation, and I am afraid if I wait until I can be absolutely sure, I'll either be unable to find any or it will be even higher in price than it is now.

Outstanding load that will serve you well.

While 75/77gr ammo has some advantages, you're not running around with your fly unzipped if you've chosen something lighter, as many do.

[Jack_Stroker]

I'm using Winchester M855 SS109 62gr. (I believe) rounds in both my Colt and Bushmaster. The Winchester stuff is quite a bit nicer than the Lake City stuff, although neither has ever given me a problem. When I'm just plinking I've used a number of different rounds. Oddly enough I've found the Monarch .223 FMJ stuff to be quite excellent. Both my weapons used it flawlessly. As a bonus the Monarch stuff is pretty cheap at Academy and it's pretty clean ammunition.

[markm]

I have shot 1000's of rounds of Q3131a and have NEVER EVER had any problems ,I have a bunch in my ammo stach and find it to be great stuff and equal to Fed xm193 .

Yeah. :confused:

All the years I've watched the ammo forum over on TOS... I've never heard of any issues with 3131a. As much as TOS will make you nuts, those guys do have a pretty good experience base on ammo quality and issues.

The most common issue was usually with 3131 in a bushmaster varminteer upper half... BLOWN PRIMERS.

I've never heard anything negative about Israeli Ammo before. IMI's M855 is really good stuff, and IMI .223 black and silver box ammo is good stuff too.

[Shihan]

I'm using Winchester M855 SS109 62gr. (I believe) rounds in both my Colt and Bushmaster. The Winchester stuff is quite a bit nicer than the Lake City stuff, although neither has ever given me a problem. When I'm just plinking I've used a number of different rounds. Oddly enough I've found the Monarch .223 FMJ stuff to be quite excellent. Both my weapons used it flawlessly. As a bonus the Monarch stuff is pretty cheap at Academy and it's pretty clean ammunition.

Please expand on the Winchester being quite abit nicer than LC statement.

[carbinero]

I just bought a little Fiocchi and, now after googling around, I think I'll go back and buy some more, at $18/50. Any thoughts on this stuff?

[Shihan]

I just bought a little Fiocchi and, now after googling around, I think I'll go back and buy some more, at $18/50. Any thoughts on this stuff?

I have had good results with Fiocchi in other calibers and noo problems with the little I have fired of the .223.

[moonshot]

I've never used Fiocchi rifle ammo, but my experience with it in 40 S&W and 9mm has been that it is loaded hot.

moonshot

[white spaniard]

Since were talking about ammo has anyone ordered from this company?
http://www.wisconsincartridge.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=28&idproduct=18

[rmecapn]

Since were talking about ammo has anyone ordered from this company?
http://www.wisconsincartridge.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=28&idproduct=18

Interesting. Never heard of them. $.26/round is an excellent price if it's quality, new manufacture.